Subject: [TR] TR4A IRS Suspension Question

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 20:06:16 -0400

Ok, just finished redoing front and rear suspension on my 67 4A IRS.
Complete disassembly, clean, repaint, new urethane bushings, tie rod ends,
trunnions, etc.  New comp springs ( 1 inch lower) all corners, new stock
tubes shocks up front and new KYB gas shocks on the tube shock conversion
brackets for the IRS.  Reinstalled all alignment shims as installed as the
car drove pretty straight.  Urethane packings on springs. 

After completing, I noticed that all four corners have a slightly different
ride height when measured from garage floor to bottom on fender lip at
center of each wheel.  Left front: 26 3/4 inches, Right front: 26 1/4, Left
rear: 27 3/8, right rear: 27 7/8.  I think the higher rear height is coming
from the tube shock conversion as it was lower with the levers.    So about
a half inch off each side.   I don't recall having this issue when I redid
my TR6, but that was a while ago.   Rears also have stock trailing arm
brackets (one and two notch brackets on each side - believe these are
original from new given history of the car).  

Looking for help on next steps before bringing it in for an alignment.  Will
alignment correct height difference or do I need to add 1/2 inch spacers on
lower sides.  I am going to put uprated valved levers back on rear to
eliminate the extra height in rear.  

Any help appreciated.   

Thanks
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL
Too many TRs to maintain!
61 3A
62 4
67 4A
75 6
81 8

** [email-masked] **

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From: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 07:37:37 -0400

Great thoughts and much appreciated.  I believe the higher rear height is from the steel brackets used in the tube shock conversion kit, but I could be wrong.   Let me drive it some more and get it loosened up and then measure again and also include measuring floor to frame on each corner.  I need to do something as it doesn’t quite look right visually either and a TR has to look right when it sits.  In my opinion.  Thanks
Jim

> On Mar 23, 2021, at 9:17 PM, Michael Marr <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Another thought.  On my TR3A, there is a spacer on one of the rear springs that, effectively, increases the unloaded ride height on the driver's side to account for the fact that the car is driven driver-only most of the time.  Does the same situation exist with the 4A?  Is one rear spring longer than the other to provide the ride height difference?  Have you tried measuring the ride height with someone (an adult, preferably) in the driver's seat?
> 
> Mike
> 
> Michael J Marr, P.E., CEng.
> Albion Technical Services
> W5918 Hackbarth Rd
> Fort Atkinson, WI 53538
> 
> Cell:  630-202-0065
> Email:  [email-masked]
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Michael Marr
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:03 PM
> To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A IRS Suspension Question
> 
> Have you driven the car?  A few road miles will help the suspension settle.  There's a lot of "stiction" in those new components.
> 
> Also, I agree with Jim Kirby - the new shocks will not affect ride height, unless, for some reason, they have bottomed out and are bound up.
> 
> Mike
> 
> Michael J Marr, P.E., CEng.
> Albion Technical Services
> W5918 Hackbarth Rd
> Fort Atkinson, WI 53538
> 
> Cell:  630-202-0065
> Email:  [email-masked]
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Jim Henningsen
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:06 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [TR] TR4A IRS Suspension Question
> 
> Complete disassembly, clean, repaint, new urethane bushings, tie rod ends, trunnions, etc.  New comp springs ( 1 inch lower) all corners, new stock tubes shocks up front and new KYB gas shocks on the tube shock conversion brackets for the IRS.  Reinstalled all alignment shims as installed as the car drove pretty straight.  Urethane packings on springs. 
> 
> After completing, I noticed that all four corners have a slightly different ride height when measured from garage floor to bottom on fender lip at center of each wheel.  Left front: 26 3/4 inches, Right front: 26 1/4, Left
> brackets (one and two notch brackets on each side - believe these are original from new given history of the car).  
> 
> Looking for help on next steps before bringing it in for an alignment.  Will alignment correct height difference or do I need to add 1/2 inch spacers on lower sides.  I am going to put uprated valved levers back on rear to eliminate the extra height in rear.  
> 
> Any help appreciated.   
> 
> Thanks
> Jim Henningsen
> Ocala FL
> Donate: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.team.net_donate.html&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=HL4LAX-jeuoWNeqz1u1ryqDHfrhQ38xO3ECYGpjCniQ&m=zyBcU6XFtctFx40MN8_0LZLMiP0J64CGZLrOiMB5Qo8&s=Wdo4Gm7DjQF_8e5xGW6w1G2pBO0RzA-VOX5FTNwyGWc&e=
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From: Brian K <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 10:48:41 -0700

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From: James Henningsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:25:17 -0400

--===============4055657973070681566==
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Great point.  This is not that kit.  Mounts to lever mounting holes and that=
=E2=80=99s it. Jim

> On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:05 PM, glewis999 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF On some rear shocker conversions to the IRS, the shocker mountin=
g bracket is bolted to the car=E2=80=99s body as well as to the mounting poi=
nts for the original lever arm shocks. This might account for the ride heigh=
t.
> Graham
>=20
>=20
> Sent from the all-new AOL app for iOS
>=20
> On Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 5:49 pm, Brian K <[email-masked]> wrote:=

>=20
> Simple test on the rear shock conversion - disconnect one end of the shock=
 and slide it out of the way. Roll the car a little with the shock out of th=
e way then measure again. Don't drive this way.
>=20
> Like other replies, I would not expect the tube shocks to provide lift.
>=20
> Brian
>=20
> On Mar 24, 2021 4:37 AM, Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Great thoughts and much appreciated.  I believe the higher rear height is f=
rom the steel brackets used in the tube shock conversion kit, but I could be=
 wrong.   Let me drive it some more and get it loosened up and then measure a=
gain and also include measuring floor to frame on each corner.  I need to do=
 something as it doesn=E2=80=99t quite look right visually either and a TR h=
as to look right when it sits.  In my opinion.  Thanks
> Jim
>=20
> > On Mar 23, 2021, at 9:17 PM, Michael Marr <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:
> >=20
> > =EF=BB=BFAnother thought.  On my TR3A, there is a spacer on one of the r=
ear springs that, effectively, increases the unloaded ride height on the dri=
ver's side to account for the fact that the car is driven driver-only most o=
f the time.  Does the same situation exist with the 4A?  Is one rear spring l=
onger than the other to provide the ride height difference?  Have you tried m=
easuring the ride height with someone (an adult, preferably) in the driver's=
 seat?
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Michael Ma=
rr
> >=20
> > Have you driven the car?  A few road miles will help the suspension sett=
le.  There's a lot of "stiction" in those new components.
> >=20
> > Also, I agree with Jim Kirby - the new shocks will not affect ride heigh=
t, unless, for some reason, they have bottomed out and are bound up.
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Jim Hennin=
gsen
> >=20
> > Complete disassembly, clean, repaint, new urethane bushings, tie rod end=
s, trunnions, etc.  New comp springs ( 1 inch lower) all corners, new stock t=
ubes shocks up front and new KYB gas shocks on the tube shock conversion bra=
ckets for the IRS.  Reinstalled all alignment shims as installed as the car d=
rove pretty straight.  Urethane packings on springs.=20
> >=20
> > After completing, I noticed that all four corners have a slightly differ=
ent ride height when measured from garage floor to bottom on fender lip at c=
enter of each wheel.  Left front: 26 3/4 inches, Right front: 26 1/4, Left
> > rear: 27 3/8, right rear: 27 7/8.  I think the higher rear height is com=
ing
> > from the tube shock conversion as it was lower with the levers.    So ab=
out
> > a half inch off each side.   I don't recall having this issue when I red=
id
> > brackets (one and two notch brackets on each side - believe these are or=
iginal from new given history of the car). =20
> >=20
> > Looking for help on next steps before bringing it in for an alignment.  W=
ill alignment correct height difference or do I need to add 1/2 inch spacers=
 on lower sides.  I am going to put uprated valved levers back on rear to el=
iminate the extra height in rear. =20
> >=20
> > Any help appreciated.  =20
> >=20
> > Thanks
> > Jim Henningsen
> > Ocala FL
> >=20
> >=20
> > Donate: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.n=
et_donate.html&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DeuGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=3D=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">Great point. &nbsp;This is=
 not that kit. &nbsp;Mounts to lever mounting holes and that=E2=80=99s it. J=
im</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 24, 2021, at 2=
:05 PM, glewis999 &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml=
><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch=
></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]-->
On some rear shocker conversions to the IRS, the shocker mounting bracket is=
 bolted to the car=E2=80=99s body as well as to the mounting points for the o=
riginal lever arm shocks. This might account for the ride height.<div>Graham=
<br><br><br><a href=3D"https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-=
video/id646100661">Sent from the all-new AOL app for iOS</a><br><br><p class=
=3D"yahoo-quoted-begin" style=3D"font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; padding-to=
p: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 5:49 pm, Brian K &lt;b=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</p><blockquote class=3D"iosymail"><div id=3D"yi=
v7144059350"><div><div>Simple test on the rear shock conversion - disconnect=
 one end of the shock and slide it out of the way. Roll the car a little wit=
h the shock out of the way then measure again. Don't drive this way.<div><br=
 clear=3D"none"></div><div>Like other replies, I would not expect the tube s=
hocks to provide lift.<br clear=3D"none"><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=
Brian</div></div></div><div class=3D"yiv7144059350gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"=
none"><div class=3D"yiv7144059350yqt9249108226" id=3D"yiv7144059350yqtfd3047=
4"><div class=3D"yiv7144059350gmail_quote">On Mar 24, 2021 4:37 AM, Jim Henn=
ingsen &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><blockquote class=3D=
"yiv7144059350quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex;"><p dir=3D"ltr">Great thoughts and much appreciated.&nbsp; I=
 believe the higher rear height is from the steel brackets used in the tube s=
hock conversion kit, but I could be wrong.&nbsp;&nbsp; Let me drive it some m=
ore and get it loosened up and then measure again and also include measuring=
 floor to frame on each corner.&nbsp; I need to do something as it doesn=E2=80=
=99t quite look right visually either and a TR has to look right when it sit=
s.&nbsp; In my opinion.&nbsp; Thanks<br clear=3D"none">
Jim<br clear=3D"none"></p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">&gt; On Mar 23, 2021, at 9:17 PM, Michael Marr &lt;mmarr@albi=
ontechnical.com&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; =EF=BB=BFAnother thought.&nbsp; On my TR3A, there is a spacer on one of=
 the rear springs that, effectively, increases the unloaded ride height on t=
he driver's side to account for the fact that the car is driven driver-only m=
ost of the time.&nbsp; Does the same situation exist with the 4A?&nbsp; Is o=
ne rear spring longer than the other to provide the ride height difference?&=
nbsp; Have you tried measuring the ride height with someone (an adult, prefe=
rably) in the driver's seat?<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Mike<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Michael J Marr, P.E., CEng.<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Albion Technical Services<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; W5918 Hackbarth Rd<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Fort Atkinson, WI 53538<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Cell:&nbsp; 630-202-0065<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Email:&nbsp; [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; From: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; On Behalf Of Mic=
hael Marr<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:03 PM<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; To: Jim Henningsen &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]<b=
r clear=3D"none">
&gt; Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A IRS Suspension Question<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Have you driven the car?&nbsp; A few road miles will help the suspensio=
n settle.&nbsp; There's a lot of "stiction" in those new components.<br clea=
r=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Also, I agree with Jim Kirby - the new shocks will not affect ride heig=
ht, unless, for some reason, they have bottomed out and are bound up.<br cle=
ar=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Mike<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Michael J Marr, P.E., CEng.<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Albion Technical Services<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; W5918 Hackbarth Rd<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Fort Atkinson, WI 53538<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Cell:&nbsp; 630-202-0065<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Email:&nbsp; [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; From: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; On Behalf Of Jim=
 Henningsen<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:06 PM<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; To: [email-masked]<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Subject: [TR] TR4A IRS Suspension Question<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Ok, just finished redoing front and rear suspension on my 67 4A IRS.<br=
 clear=3D"none">
&gt; Complete disassembly, clean, repaint, new urethane bushings, tie rod en=
ds, trunnions, etc.&nbsp; New comp springs ( 1 inch lower) all corners, new s=
tock tubes shocks up front and new KYB gas shocks on the tube shock conversi=
on brackets for the IRS.&nbsp; Reinstalled all alignment shims as installed a=
s the car drove pretty straight.&nbsp; Urethane packings on springs. <br cle=
ar=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; After completing, I noticed that all four corners have a slightly diffe=
rent ride height when measured from garage floor to bottom on fender lip at c=
enter of each wheel.&nbsp; Left front: 26 3/4 inches, Right front: 26 1/4, L=
eft<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; rear: 27 3/8, right rear: 27 7/8.&nbsp; I think the higher rear height i=
s coming<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; from the tube shock conversion as it was lower with the levers.&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; So about<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; a half inch off each side.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't recall having this issue=
 when I redid<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; my TR6, but that was a while ago.&nbsp;&nbsp; Rears also have stock tra=
iling arm<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; brackets (one and two notch brackets on each side - believe these are o=
riginal from new given history of the car).&nbsp; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Looking for help on next steps before bringing it in for an alignment.&=
nbsp; Will alignment correct height difference or do I need to add 1/2 inch s=
pacers on lower sides.&nbsp; I am going to put uprated valved levers back on=
 rear to eliminate the extra height in rear.&nbsp; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Any help appreciated.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Thanks<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Jim Henningsen<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Ocala FL<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; Too many TRs to maintain!<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; 61 3A<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; 62 4<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; 67 4A<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; 75 6<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; 81 8<br clear=3D"none">
&gt; <br clear=3D"none">
&gt; ** [email-masked] **<br clear=3D"none">
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---

From: David Brady <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:14:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

When you figure this out, please let us know. I've had the same question about my TR250. In my case the steer and drive axles on the right hand side are quarter inch or so higher than the left. Correct or not, I attribute this to these cars being setup as RHD and Triumph tweaking the right side slightly higher to attribute for pilot weight. Of course, this doesn't help things on this side of the pond.

David Brady
'68 TR250
CD8124L

-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>
>Sent: Mar 23, 2021 8:06 PM
>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]