Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

From: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:57:35 -0500

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Just a couple random thoughts here.  One, I could not figure out from your
message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.  My
understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to
pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back,
that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.  You seem somewhat
concerned about originality.

Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard
to fit.  There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR ten
years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have been
fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years).

Good Luck

Greg Lemon
TR250

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
> Several years ago on an evening  club drive in the Catoctin Mts of
> Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark &
> started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel
> flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg
> and a Motel.
>
> Next morning, still raining,  the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the
> Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.  Cleaned the bowl & nursed the car
> home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and
> got his trailer & towed me home.
>
> Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls.
> So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.
>
> Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so
> while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.
>
> A few months later got everything back together.  The engine started right
> up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed
> of the original  curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope,
> teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.
>
> Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph  Male pipe 'nut' and the
> female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch
> - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.
>
> So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and
> install an electric pump, ala Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907).
>
> Well, I installed a couple of  different new electric  pumps  adjacent to
> the mechanical pump.
>
> They would never 'self prime'.
>
> Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED
> the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is
> less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the
> original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.
>
> So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the new
> fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump  right on the frame. This allows
> the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the
> new location of the electric pump.
>
> Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality)
> to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the Water pump. The
> original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and
> forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the
> engine & then across to the carburetor feeds.
>
> Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.
>
> I  wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing
> glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy
> status.
>
> Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At
> least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3),
> Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of
> the engine.
>
> Sherman D Taffel
> Columbia MD and Goldvein VA
> 65 TR4 CT 50054L
> ( per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA)
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
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<div dir=3D"auto">Just a couple random thoughts here.=C2=A0 One, I could no=
t figure out from your message where exactly you ended up putting the elect=
ric pump.=C2=A0 My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better=
 than the like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank a=
nd low in back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.=C2=
=A0 You seem somewhat concerned about originality.=C2=A0=C2=A0<div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are r=
eadily available and not too hard to fit.=C2=A0 There are lots of things I =
remember about rebuilding my TR ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not o=
ne of them, so it must have been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been=
 working fine for ten years).</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Good Luck</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lem=
on</div><div dir=3D"auto">TR250<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=
=3D"sans-serif">Several years ago on an evening=C2=A0 club drive in the Cat=
octin Mts of Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it =
got dark &amp; started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. =
Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fred=
ericksburg and a Motel.</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-se=
rif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Next morn=
ing, still raining,=C2=A0 the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the Glas=
s fuel bowl- a pile of &#39;rust dust&#39;.=C2=A0 Cleaned the bowl &amp; nu=
rsed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club frien=
d came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home.</font></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font fa=
ce=3D"sans-serif">Further examination determined sediment also in the CD ca=
rbs fuel bowls. So much for the fuel pump &#39;screen&#39; being &#39;effec=
tive&#39;.</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></fo=
nt></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Also examination of th=
e fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the c=
arbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.=C2=A0</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><fon=
t face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans=
-serif">A few months later got everything back together.=C2=A0 The engine s=
tarted right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threa=
ds on fuel feed of the original=C2=A0 curved pipe inlet &#39;nut&#39; to th=
e new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn&#39;t stop.=C2=A0=
</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Magnifying glass exam of the ori=
ginal Triumph=C2=A0 Male pipe &#39;nut&#39; and the female threaded bore of=
 the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It=
 was not Metric either.=C2=A0</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"s=
ans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">So =
after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and install=
 an electric pump, ala=C2=A0Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 90=
7).</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Well, I installed a couple of=
=C2=A0 different new electric=C2=A0 pumps=C2=A0 adjacent to the mechanical =
pump.</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">They would never &#39;self =
prime&#39;.=C2=A0</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><=
br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Now, returning =
to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED the tank of th=
e old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 f=
ull requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original input height =
of the original pump, to receive fuel.=C2=A0</font></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"=
sans-serif">So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and se=
curing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump=C2=A0 right o=
n the frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel T=
ool cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump.</font></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line (=
 semblance of originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; ad=
jacent to the Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the=
 mechanical pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head=
 level to the front of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds=
.</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Finally hope this resolves the =
fuel delivery issue.</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif=
"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">I=C2=A0 want=
ed to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So =
others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy status.</fo=
nt></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">Obviously not going to drive a car w=
ith weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( unlike =
Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust M=
anifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.=C2=A0</font></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir=3D"auto">Sher=
man D Taffel=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Columbia MD and Goldvein VA=C2=A0=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">65 TR4 CT 50054L</div><div dir=3D"auto">( per VTR t=
he last known TR4 produced &amp; shipped to USA)</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div id=3D"m_-6070975799002559859compose=
r_signature" dir=3D"auto"><div style=3D"font-size:85%;color:#575757" dir=3D=
"auto">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable sm=
artphone</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div id=3D"m_-6070975799002559859composer_si=
gnature" dir=3D"auto"><div style=3D"font-size:85%;color:#575757" dir=3D"aut=
o">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartp=
hone</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div>** <a href=3D"mailto:triu=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]=
am.net</a> **<br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
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From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:01:35 -0400 (EDT)

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<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head> 
  <meta charset="UTF-8"> 
 </head>
 <body>
  <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">
   And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.&nbsp;
  </div>
  <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">
   Ed Woods
  </div>
  <blockquote type="cite">
   <div>
    On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div>
    <br>
   </div>
   <div dir="auto">
    Just a couple random thoughts here.&nbsp; One, I could not figure out from your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.&nbsp; My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.&nbsp; You seem somewhat concerned about originality.&nbsp;&nbsp;
    <div dir="auto">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div dir="auto">
     Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard to fit.&nbsp; There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years).
    </div>
    <div dir="auto">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div dir="auto">
     Good Luck
    </div>
    <div dir="auto">
     <br>
    </div>
    <div dir="auto">
     Greg Lemon
    </div>
    <div dir="auto">
     TR250
     <br>
     <div dir="auto">
      <br>
     </div>
     <div dir="auto">
      <br>
     </div>
    </div>
   </div>
   <br>
   <div class="gmail_quote">
    <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">
     On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt;
     <a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
     <br>
    </div>
    <blockquote>
     <div dir="auto">
      <div dir="auto">
       <br>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Several years ago on an evening&nbsp; club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark &amp; started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a Motel.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Next morning, still raining,&nbsp; the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.&nbsp; Cleaned the bowl &amp; nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">A few months later got everything back together.&nbsp; The engine started right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed of the original&nbsp; curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph&nbsp; Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and install an electric pump, ala&nbsp;Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907).</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Well, I installed a couple of&nbsp; different new electric&nbsp; pumps&nbsp; adjacent to the mechanical pump.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">They would never 'self prime'.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and securing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump&nbsp; right on the frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; adjacent to the Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">I&nbsp; wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy status.</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;">Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <span style="font-family: sans-serif;"><br></span>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        Sherman D Taffel&nbsp;
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        Columbia MD and Goldvein VA&nbsp;
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        65 TR4 CT 50054L
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        ( per VTR the last known TR4 produced &amp; shipped to USA)
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <br>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <br>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto" id="m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
        <div dir="auto" style="font-size: 85%; color: #575757;">
         Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
        </div>
       </div>
       <div dir="auto">
        <br>
       </div>
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      <div dir="auto">
       <br>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">
       <br>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto" id="m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
       <div dir="auto" style="font-size: 85%; color: #575757;">
        Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
       </div>
      </div>
      <div dir="auto">
       <br>
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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:29:41 +0000 (UTC)

--===============0244474362082406097==
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 I've heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in hal=
f to achieve the desired length.=C2=A0 I haven't tried it myself since I go=
t mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that would=
 have been my next step.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>
To: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>; staffel <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

  And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not=
 the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the repla=
cements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one tim=
e there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.=C2=A0  =
=20
   Ed Woods =20
  On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <[email-masked]> wrote:  =20
  =20
   Just a couple random thoughts here.=C2=A0 One, I could not figure out fr=
om your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.=C2=A0=
 My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like =
to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back,=
 that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.=C2=A0 You seem so=
mewhat concerned about originality.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =20
   Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too h=
ard to fit.=C2=A0 There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my T=
R ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have be=
en fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years). =
 =20
   Good Luck  =20
   Greg Lemon   TR250=20
 =20
  =20
   =20
   On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel < [email-masked]> wrote:=20
 =20
  =20
    Several years ago on an evening=C2=A0 club drive in the Catoctin Mts of=
 Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark & s=
tarted to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flo=
w clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a=
 Motel.  =20
   Next morning, still raining,=C2=A0 the issue was apparent: in the bottom=
 of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.=C2=A0 Cleaned the bowl & nu=
rsed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club frien=
d came by and got his trailer & towed me home.  =20
   Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls.=
 So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.  =20
   Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, =
so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.=C2=A0  =20
   A few months later got everything back together.=C2=A0 The engine starte=
d right up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fue=
l feed of the original=C2=A0 curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe=
 dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.=C2=A0  =20
   Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph=C2=A0 Male pipe 'nut' and =
the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread misma=
tch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.=C2=A0  =20
   So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and i=
nstall an electric pump, ala=C2=A0Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus =
907).  =20
   Well, I installed a couple of=C2=A0 different new electric=C2=A0 pumps=
=C2=A0 adjacent to the mechanical pump.  =20
   They would never 'self prime'.=C2=A0  =20
   Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is l=
ess than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original=
 input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.=C2=A0  =20
   So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the ne=
w fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump=C2=A0 right on the frame. This=
 allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to m=
atch the new location of the electric pump.  =20
   Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality=
) to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the Water pump. The=
 original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and=
 forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the en=
gine & then across to the carburetor feeds.  =20
   Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.  =20
   I=C2=A0 wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufactur=
ing glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadwor=
thy status.  =20
   Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. =
At least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), J=
ensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the=
 engine.=C2=A0  =20
   Sherman D Taffel=C2=A0   Columbia MD and Goldvein VA=C2=A0   65 TR4 CT 5=
0054L   ( per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA)  =20
  =20
    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphon=
e   =20
   =20
  =20
    Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphon=
e   =20
  ** [email-masked] **=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=C2=A0 http://www.team.net/a=
rchive=20
=20
mail.com=20
=20
 ** [email-masked] **=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive=
=20
=20
comcast.net=20
=20
 ** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]

------=_Part_130362_1003460863.1597145381875
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<div style="color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size="3">I've heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in half to achieve the desired length.&nbsp; I haven't tried it myself since I got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that would have been my next step.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="clear:both"><font size="4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: EDWARD WOODS &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; staffel &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod<br>
<br>

<div id="yiv6420788603">
<div>
  
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;">
   And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.&nbsp;
  </div>

<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;">
   <br clear="none">
  </div>

<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;">
   Ed Woods
  </div>

  <blockquote type="cite">
   
<div class="yiv6420788603yqt9459021822" id="yiv6420788603yqtfd34247">
<div>
    On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
   </div>

<div>
    <br clear="none">
   </div>

<div>
    <br clear="none">
   </div>

<div>
    
<div>
     <br clear="none">
    </div>

<div>

<div>
     <br clear="none">
    </div>

<div>
     Good Luck
    </div>

<div>
     <br clear="none">
    </div>

<div>
     Greg Lemon
    </div>

<div>
     TR250
     <br clear="none">
     
<div>
      <br clear="none">
     </div>

<div>
      <br clear="none">
     </div>

    </div>

   </div>

   <br clear="none">
   
<div class="yiv6420788603gmail_quote">
    
<div class="yiv6420788603gmail_attr" dir="ltr">
     On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt;
     <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
     <br clear="none">
    </div>

    <blockquote>
     
<div>
      
<div>
       <br clear="none">
      </div>

<div>
       
<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Several years ago on an evening&nbsp; club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark &amp; started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a Motel.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Next morning, still raining,&nbsp; the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.&nbsp; Cleaned the bowl &amp; nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">A few months later got everything back together.&nbsp; The engine started right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed of the original&nbsp; curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph&nbsp; Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and install an electric pump, ala&nbsp;Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907).</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Well, I installed a couple of&nbsp; different new electric&nbsp; pumps&nbsp; adjacent to the mechanical pump.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">They would never 'self prime'.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and securing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump&nbsp; right on the frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; adjacent to the Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">I&nbsp; wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy status.</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;">Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.&nbsp;</span>
       </div>

<div>
        <span style="font-family:sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></span>
       </div>

<div>
        Sherman D Taffel&nbsp;
       </div>

<div>

<div>
        65 TR4 CT 50054L
       </div>

<div>

<div>
        <br clear="none">
       </div>

<div>
        <br clear="none">
       </div>

<div id="yiv6420788603m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
        
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">
         Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
        </div>

       </div>

<div>
        <br clear="none">
       </div>

      </div>

<div>
       <br clear="none">
      </div>

<div>
       <br clear="none">
      </div>

<div id="yiv6420788603m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
       
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">
        Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
       </div>

      </div>

<div>
       <br clear="none">
      </div>

     </div>
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---

From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:35:51 -0600

--===============1001482696713916063==
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	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I stopped that leak by using two of the "acorns" instead of one, creating th=
e longer one needed to push up against the sealing surface.

Bud

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On Aug 11, 2020, at 5:01 AM, EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not t=
he threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the replacem=
ents available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one time th=
ere was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.=20
>> Just a couple random thoughts here.  One, I could not figure out from you=
r message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.  My understa=
nding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to pull, MG a=
nd Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back, that would be=
 a good place for the new TR electric pump.  You seem somewhat concerned abo=
ut originality. =20
>>=20
>> Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too ha=
rd to fit.  There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR ten y=
ears ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have been fairl=
y easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years).
>> TR250=20
>> Several years ago on an evening  club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryla=
nd my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark & started t=
o rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flow cloggin=
g issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a Motel.
>>=20
>> Next morning, still raining,  the issue was apparent: in the bottom of th=
e Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.  Cleaned the bowl & nursed the car=
 home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and=
 got his trailer & towed me home.
>>=20
>> Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. S=
o much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.
>>=20
>> Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, s=
o while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.=20
>>=20
>> A few months later got everything back together.  The engine started righ=
t up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed o=
f the original  curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon t=
ape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.=20
>>=20
>> Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph  Male pipe 'nut' and the fe=
male threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - C=
hinese machining. It was not Metric either.=20
>>=20
>> So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and in=
stall an electric pump, ala Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907).
>>=20
>> Well, I installed a couple of  different new electric  pumps  adjacent to=
 the mechanical pump.
>>=20
>> They would never 'self prime'.=20
>>=20
>> Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED t=
he tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is les=
s than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original in=
put height of the original pump, to receive fuel.=20
>>=20
>> So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the new=
 fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump  right on the frame. This allows=
 the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the=
 new location of the electric pump.
>>=20
>> Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality)=
 to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the Water pump. The o=
riginal copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and fo=
rward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the engine=
 & then across to the carburetor feeds.
>> I  wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing gl=
itch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy sta=
tus.
>>=20
>> Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. A=
t least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jen=
sen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the en=
gine.=20
>>=20
>> Sherman D Taffel=20
>> Columbia MD and Goldvein VA=20
>> 65 TR4 CT 50054L
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/arch=
ive=20
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/grglmn=
@gmail.com=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archi=
ve=20
>>=20
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[email-masked]
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ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/levilev=
[email-masked]

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	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I stopped that leak by using two of the "acorns" instead of one, creating the longer one needed to push up against the sealing surface.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Bud<br><br>Sent from my Commodore 64</div><div><br>On Aug 11, 2020, at 5:01 AM, EDWARD WOODS &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>

  <meta charset="UTF-8"> 

    On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **
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From: "dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:42:18 -0500

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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My electric pump is mounted to the body under the rear seat.  Early TR4.

=20

And =E2=80=93 there is a hidden switch under the dashboard that the =
wires go through.  Nice safety feature.

=20

From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of staffel
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:30 AM
To: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>; Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

=20

Hello Greg: I put the electric pump right on the top of the frame below =
where the original pump was, for ease of access. On some Brit cars. The =
elec pumps are in the trunk (Jaguars), under the frame by the rear wheel =
(Jensen GTs). Ever have to replace an SU pump  along side the highway in =
a rainstorm. Those days are over for me.

=20

Hi Ed: GOOD COMMENT; In my case it was NOT the brass acorn.  And to =
replace that acorn, due to the curvature of the original steel pipe, =
meant a total fabrication of the pipe, as replacing the acorn was =
impossible as the brass Male nut could not be removed.

=20

Thanks Gents! A modern electric pump, located where easily checked, =
wired to the distributor + and ground makes checking or replacing the =
pump an easy job in the future. My TR4 was my daily driver from 1969 =
thru the mid 1980s, from Oklahoma to  upstate NY, in the Mid Atlantic & =
in New Mexico. Proper replacement parts, made in the UK or US were much =
more dependable then.

I am still running a Mallory dual point ignition distributor after =
poorly manufactured Lucas points frustrated me for months: cam too =
small, slot too small, hole in points where points 'sit on breaker =
plate's too small so points set wobbled - giving intermittent spark.=20

=20

Even the basic things one has to inspect for proper manufacturing these =
days.

=20

Looking forward  to having my TR fully roadworthy again!

Sherman=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

-------- Original message --------

Date: 8/11/20 7:01 AM (GMT-05:00)=20

Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod=20

=20

And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, =
not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the =
replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At =
one time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this =
problem. =20

=20

Ed Woods=20

On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <[email-masked] =

=20

=20

Just a couple random thoughts here.  One, I could not figure out from =
your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.  My =
understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like =
to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in =
back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.  You seem =
somewhat concerned about originality.  =20

=20

Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too =
hard to fit.  There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR =
ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have =
been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten =
years).=20

=20

Good Luck=20

=20

Greg Lemon=20

TR250=20

=20

=20

=20

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel < [email-masked] =

=20

Several years ago on an evening  club drive in the Catoctin Mts of =
Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark & =
started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel =
flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg =
and a Motel.=20

=20

Next morning, still raining,  the issue was apparent: in the bottom of =
the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.  Cleaned the bowl & nursed =
the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend =
came by and got his trailer & towed me home.=20

=20

Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. =
So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.=20

=20

Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, =
so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF. =20

=20

A few months later got everything back together.  The engine started =
right up & ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on =
fuel feed of the original  curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( =
pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop. =20

=20

Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph  Male pipe 'nut' and the =
female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread =
mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either. =20

=20

So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and =
install an electric pump, ala Jaguar V12s & Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus =
907).=20

=20

Well, I installed a couple of  different new electric  pumps  adjacent =
to the mechanical pump.=20

=20

They would never 'self prime'. =20

=20

Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, & DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank =
is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the =
original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel. =20

=20

So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new paint) and securing the =
new fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump  right on the frame. This =
allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to =
match the new location of the electric pump.=20

=20

Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of =
originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the =
Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical =
pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to =
the front of the engine & then across to the carburetor feeds.=20

=20

Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.=20

=20

I  wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing =
glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to =
Roadworthy status.=20

=20

Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. =
At least on the TR4 & 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have =
3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite =
side of the engine. =20

=20

Sherman D Taffel =20

Columbia MD and Goldvein VA =20

65 TR4 CT 50054L=20

( per VTR the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA)=20

=20

=20

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone =

=20

=20

=20

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone =

=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=20

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>My =
electric pump is mounted to the body under the rear seat.=C2=A0 Early =
TR4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>And =E2=80=93 there is a hidden switch under the =
dashboard that the wires go through.=C2=A0 Nice safety =
feature.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>staffel<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:30 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> EDWARD WOODS &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Greg Lemon =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel =
Delivery Issue &amp; Mod<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello =
Greg: I put the electric pump right on the top of the frame below where =
the original pump was, for ease of access. On some Brit cars. The elec =
pumps are in the trunk (Jaguars), under the frame by the rear wheel =
(Jensen GTs). Ever have to replace an SU pump&nbsp; along side the =
highway in a rainstorm. Those days are over for =
me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Ed: GOOD COMMENT; In my case it was NOT the brass =
acorn.&nbsp; And to replace that acorn, due to the curvature of the =
original steel pipe, meant a total fabrication of the pipe, as replacing =
the acorn was impossible as the brass Male nut could not be =
removed.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks Gents! A modern electric pump, located where =
easily checked, wired to the distributor + and ground makes checking or =
replacing the pump an easy job in the future. My TR4 was my daily driver =
from 1969 thru the mid 1980s, from Oklahoma to&nbsp; upstate NY, in the =
Mid Atlantic &amp; in New Mexico. Proper replacement parts, made in the =
UK or US were much more dependable then.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I am still running a Mallory dual point ignition =
distributor after poorly manufactured Lucas points frustrated me for =
months: cam too small, slot too small, hole in points where points 'sit =
on breaker plate's too small so points set wobbled - giving intermittent =
spark.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Even the basic things one has to inspect for proper =
manufacturing these days.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Looking forward&nbsp; to having my TR fully roadworthy =
again!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sherman&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div =
id=3D"composer_signature"><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:#575757'>Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, =
an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable =
smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>-------- Original message =
--------<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>From: EDWARD WOODS &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Date: 8/11/20 7:01 AM (GMT-05:00) =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>To: Greg Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, staffel =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; =
Mod <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>And isn't it the brass &quot;acorn&quot; that seals the connection at =
the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original &quot;acorn&quot; is a =
bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and =
can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer =
&quot;acorn&quot; to solve this problem.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Ed Woods <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Just a couple random thoughts here.&nbsp; One, I could =
not figure out from your message where exactly you ended up putting the =
electric pump.&nbsp; My understanding is most electric pumps like to =
push better than the like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close =
to the tank and low in back, that would be a good place for the new TR =
electric pump.&nbsp; You seem somewhat concerned about =
originality.&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily =
available and not too hard to fit.&nbsp; There are lots of things I =
remember about rebuilding my TR ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is =
not one of them, so it must have been fairly easy to do and worked (and =
has been working fine for ten years). <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Good Luck <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Greg Lemon <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>TR250 <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Several =
years ago on an evening&nbsp; club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryland =
my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark &amp; =
started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel =
flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg =
and a Motel.</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Next =
morning, still raining,&nbsp; the issue was apparent: in the bottom of =
the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.&nbsp; Cleaned the bowl &amp; =
nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club =
friend came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home.</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Further =
examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much =
for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Also =
examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so =
while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.&nbsp;</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>A few =
months later got everything back together.&nbsp; The engine started =
right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads =
on fuel feed of the original&nbsp; curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new =
pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.&nbsp;</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Magnifying glass exam of the =
original Triumph&nbsp; Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of =
the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. =
It was not Metric either.&nbsp;</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>So =
after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and =
install an electric pump, ala&nbsp;Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs =
(Lotus 907).</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Well, I =
installed a couple of&nbsp; different new electric&nbsp; pumps&nbsp; =
adjacent to the mechanical pump.</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>They =
would never 'self prime'.&nbsp;</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Now, =
returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank =
is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the =
original input height of the original pump, to receive =
fuel.&nbsp;</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>So I am =
redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and securing the new =
fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump&nbsp; right on the frame. =
This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool =
cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump.</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Next =
will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) to =
meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; adjacent to the Water pump. =
The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran =
up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front =
of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds.</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Finally =
hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue.</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I&nbsp; =
wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing =
glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to =
Roadworthy status.</span> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Obviously not going to drive a =
car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( =
unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the =
exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.&nbsp;</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sherman D Taffel&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Columbia MD and Goldvein VA&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>65 TR4 CT 50054L =
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>( per VTR the last known =
TR4 produced &amp; shipped to USA) <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div =
id=3D"m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:#575757'>Sent via =
the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div =
id=3D"m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;color:#575757'>Sent via =
the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>** <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> ** =
<br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a> <br>Archive: <a =
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 <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>
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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:47:11 +0000 (UTC)

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 Many, many, many years ago I mounted an electric pump on the side of the e=
ngine block using one of the mechanical pump mounting studs.=C2=A0 It worke=
d flawlessly for more than 20 years (still works).=C2=A0 At some point I so=
urced an impact switch from a salvage yard and wired the pump thorough that=
 just for safety purposes.=C2=A0=20

Recently I relocated that pump to the spare tyre well (I have a space-saver=
 so there's lots of room) using two levels of isolation to reduce the noise=
.=C2=A0 Still works great.=C2=A0 I never had any issue with that pump pulli=
ng gas when mounted to the engine block.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: staffel <[email-masked]>
To: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>; Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 11:30 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

Hello Greg: I put the electric pump right on the top of the frame below whe=
re the original pump was, for ease of access. On some Brit cars. The elec p=
umps are in the trunk (Jaguars), under the frame by the rear wheel (Jensen =
GTs). Ever have to replace an SU pump=C2=A0 along side the highway in a rai=
nstorm. Those days are over for me.
Hi Ed: GOOD COMMENT; In my case it was NOT the brass acorn.=C2=A0 And to re=
place that acorn, due to the curvature of the original steel pipe, meant a =
total fabrication of the pipe, as replacing the acorn was impossible as the=
 brass Male nut could not be removed.
Thanks Gents! A modern electric pump, located where easily checked, wired t=
o the distributor + and ground makes checking or replacing the pump an easy=
 job in the future. My TR4 was my daily driver from 1969 thru the mid 1980s=
, from Oklahoma to=C2=A0 upstate NY, in the Mid Atlantic & in New Mexico. P=
roper replacement parts, made in the UK or US were much more dependable the=
n.I am still running a Mallory dual point ignition distributor after poorly=
 manufactured Lucas points frustrated me for months: cam too small, slot to=
o small, hole in points where points 'sit on breaker plate's too small so p=
oints set wobbled - giving intermittent spark.=C2=A0
Even the basic things one has to inspect for proper manufacturing these day=
s.
Looking forward=C2=A0 to having my TR fully roadworthy again!Sherman=C2=A0

-------- Original message --------From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]> =
Date: 8/11/20 7:01 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>, staffe=
l <[email-masked]> Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]> Subject: Re:=
 [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod=20

[email-masked]

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<div style="color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size="3">Many, many, many years ago I mounted an electric pump on the side of the engine block using one of the mechanical pump mounting studs.&nbsp; It worked flawlessly for more than 20 years (still works).&nbsp; At some point I sourced an impact switch from a salvage yard and wired the pump thorough that just for safety purposes.&nbsp; <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size="3">Recently I relocated that pump to the spare tyre well (I have a space-saver so there's lots of room) using two levels of isolation to reduce the noise.&nbsp; Still works great.&nbsp; I never had any issue with that pump pulling gas when mounted to the engine block.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: staffel &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: EDWARD WOODS &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 11:30 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod<br>
<br>

<div id="yiv6108943626">
<div>

<div>Hello Greg: I put the electric pump right on the top of the frame below where the original pump was, for ease of access. On some Brit cars. The elec pumps are in the trunk (Jaguars), under the frame by the rear wheel (Jensen GTs). Ever have to replace an SU pump&nbsp; along side the highway in a rainstorm. Those days are over for me.</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>Hi Ed: GOOD COMMENT; In my case it was NOT the brass acorn.&nbsp; And to replace that acorn, due to the curvature of the original steel pipe, meant a total fabrication of the pipe, as replacing the acorn was impossible as the brass Male nut could not be removed.</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>Thanks Gents! A modern electric pump, located where easily checked, wired to the distributor + and ground makes checking or replacing the pump an easy job in the future. My TR4 was my daily driver from 1969 thru the mid 1980s, from Oklahoma to&nbsp; upstate NY, in the Mid Atlantic &amp; in New Mexico. Proper replacement parts, made in the UK or US were much more dependable then.</div>

<div>I am still running a Mallory dual point ignition distributor after poorly manufactured Lucas points frustrated me for months: cam too small, slot too small, hole in points where points 'sit on breaker plate's too small so points set wobbled - giving intermittent spark.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>Even the basic things one has to inspect for proper manufacturing these days.</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div>Looking forward&nbsp; to having my TR fully roadworthy again!</div>

<div>Sherman&nbsp;</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div id="yiv6108943626composer_signature">
<div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone</div>
</div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>

<div class="yiv6108943626yqt9522597386" id="yiv6108943626yqt27967">
<div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000;">
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>

<div>From: EDWARD WOODS &lt;[email-masked]&gt; </div>

<div>Date: 8/11/20  7:01 AM  (GMT-05:00) </div>

<div>To: Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, staffel &lt;[email-masked]&gt; </div>

<div>Cc: Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; </div>

<div>Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod </div>

<div><br clear="none"></div>
</div>

  <blockquote type="cite">
   
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     Greg Lemon
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     TR250
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<div class="yiv6108943626gmail_quote">
    
<div class="yiv6108943626gmail_attr" dir="ltr">
     On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt;
     <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
     <br clear="none">
    </div>

    <blockquote>
     
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<div>
        Sherman D Taffel&nbsp;
       </div>

<div>

<div>
        65 TR4 CT 50054L
       </div>

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      </div>

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     </div>
** 

</div>
</div>

<div class="yqt9522597386" id="yqt71233">** <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a shape="rect" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear="none">Archive: <a shape="rect" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a> <a shape="rect" href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape="rect" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br clear="none"></div>
</div>
</div>

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:40:11 -0400

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Ed is correct, it is the ferrule that does the sealing when it is =
compressed by the threaded fitting tightening down to the fuel pump =
housing. The fuel pipe threads into the fuel pump with a 5/16=E2=80=9D =
compression fitting. If replaced, these may be prone to leaking fuel =
because the original ferrule was .297=E2=80=9D to .303=E2=80=9D in =
length whereas most North American ferrules are only .247=E2=80=9D to =
.253=E2=80=9D in length. Consequently, the compression fitting often =
bottoms out before the ferrule is properly compressed. The Roadster =
Factory sells compression fittings and ferrules that they claim do not =
have this problem. Also, several years ago, Scott uhring suggested using =
two ferrules end to end and filed down on the mating surface to get the =
necessary length.

=20

From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: August 11, 2020 7:02 AM
To: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>; staffel <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

=20

=20

Ed Woods=20

=20

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Ed is correct, it is the ferrule =
that does the sealing when it is compressed by the threaded fitting =
tightening down to the fuel pump housing. The fuel pipe threads into the =
fuel pump with a 5/16=E2=80=9D compression fitting. If replaced, these =
may be prone to leaking fuel because the original ferrule was =
.297=E2=80=9D to .303=E2=80=9D in length whereas most North American =
ferrules are only .247=E2=80=9D to .253=E2=80=9D in length. =
Consequently, the compression fitting often bottoms out before the =
ferrule is properly compressed. The Roadster Factory sells compression =
fittings and ferrules that they claim do not have this problem. Also, =
several years ago, Scott uhring suggested using two ferrules end to end =
and filed down on the mating surface to get the necessary =
length.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><img width=3D242 =
height=3D276 style=3D'width:2.525in;height:2.8791in' =
id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:[email-masked]"><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> EDWARD WOODS =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> August 11, 2020 7:02 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; staffel =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel =
Delivery Issue &amp; Mod<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>And isn't it the brass &quot;acorn&quot; that seals the connection at =
the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original &quot;acorn&quot; is a =
bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and =
can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer =
&quot;acorn&quot; to solve this problem.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Ed Woods <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>
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From: "Joel E. Justin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 17:48:16 +0000

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This piqued my interest as I've had (along with others in my club) leaks at=
 the fuel pump inlet, and it seemed logical if modern ferrules were 0.25" v=
s the original 0.30". I looked at several ferrules I have and they are all =
0.25". So then I looked up the ferrule in the Standard Triumph Hardware Cat=
alog. It is a TL0008 and according to the specs, it was: suited for pipe di=
ameter 5/16" with a nominal internal diameter of 0.315"-0.318" and a thickn=
ess (length) of 0.250". So it appears that the length was not 0.300". Maybe=
 the shape was different of the wall thickness was wider on the original fe=
rrules???

________________________________
From: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:40 AM
To: 'EDWARD WOODS' <[email-masked]>; 'Greg Lemon' <[email-masked]>; =
'staffel' <[email-masked]>
Cc: 'Triumphs' <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

Ed is correct, it is the ferrule that does the sealing when it is compresse=
d by the threaded fitting tightening down to the fuel pump housing. The fue=
l pipe threads into the fuel pump with a 5/16=94 compression fitting. If re=
placed, these may be prone to leaking fuel because the original ferrule was=
 .297=94 to .303=94 in length whereas most North American ferrules are only=
 .247=94 to .253=94 in length. Consequently, the compression fitting often =
bottoms out before the ferrule is properly compressed. The Roadster Factory=
 sells compression fittings and ferrules that they claim do not have this p=
roblem. Also, several years ago, Scott uhring suggested using two ferrules =
end to end and filed down on the mating surface to get the necessary length=
.

And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not t=
he threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the replace=
ments available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one time =
there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.

Ed Woods

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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
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ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
This piqued my interest as I've had (along with others in my club) leaks at=
 the fuel pump inlet, and it seemed logical if modern ferrules were 0.25&qu=
ot; vs the original 0.30&quot;. I looked at several ferrules I have and the=
y are all 0.25&quot;. So then I looked up the ferrule
 in the Standard Triumph Hardware Catalog. It is a TL0008 and according to =
the specs, it was: suited for pipe diameter 5/16&quot; with a nominal inter=
nal diameter of 0.315&quot;-0.318&quot; and a thickness (<i>length</i>) of =
0.250&quot;. So it appears that the length was not 0.300&quot;.
 Maybe the shape was different of the wall thickness was wider on the origi=
nal ferrules???</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<img size=3D"106517" contenttype=3D"image/png" unselectable=3D"on" tabindex=
=3D"-1" style=3D"max-width: 100%; user-select: none;" data-outlook-trace=3D=
"F:1|T:1" src=3D"cid:d01a28c2-2e95-4b1d-bbce-3778a14cbc19"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> [email-masked]=
 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'EDWARD WOODS' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'Greg Lemon' &lt;grg=
[email-masked]&gt;; 'staffel' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Triumphs' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">Ed is correct, it is the ferrule that does the sealing whe=
n it is compressed by the threaded fitting tightening down to the fuel pump=
 housing. The fuel pipe threads into the fuel pump with a 5/16=94 compressi=
on fitting. If replaced, these may be
 prone to leaking fuel because the original ferrule was .297=94 to .303=94 =
in length whereas most North American ferrules are only .247=94 to .253=94 =
in length. Consequently, the compression fitting often bottoms out before t=
he ferrule is properly compressed. The Roadster
 Factory sells compression fittings and ferrules that they claim do not hav=
e this problem. Also, several years ago, Scott uhring suggested using two f=
errules end to end and filed down on the mating surface to get the necessar=
y length.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<img width=3D"242" height=3D"276" id=3D"x_Picture_x0020_1" style=3D"width:2=
.525in; height:2.8791in" data-outlook-trace=3D"F:1|T:1" src=3D"cid:image001=
[email-masked]"><span style=3D""></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i=
n 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> EDWARD WOODS =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> August 11, 2020 7:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; staffel &lt;staffel@comcast=
.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-ser=
if; color:#333333">And isn't it the brass &quot;acorn&quot; that seals the =
connection at the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original &quot;acorn=
&quot; is a bit longer than the replacements available which limits
 compression and can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a l=
onger &quot;acorn&quot; to solve this problem.&nbsp;
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-ser=
if; color:#333333">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-ser=
if; color:#333333">Ed Woods
</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Calibri, sans-serif;">
&nbsp;</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

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--===============5380276437237999609==
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---

From: Cliff Hansen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 19:19:32 +0000

--===============5403860609689408952==
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The fuel line into the pump (from the tank) is 5/16 and calls for the TL000=
8 ferrule and a 60142 tube nut, which is longer than the typical US 5/16 tu=
be nut. The pump outlet to the carbs is =BC=94 tubing, and the ferrule and =
tube nut on that line are special: Standard part nos 102729 and 60179, resp=
ectively. 102729 has a profile shaped something like this:

The tube nut presses on the flat surface at the left, the tapered surface t=
o the right seals at the pump body.

At the moment I can=92t find the old one I=92ve got somewhere.

Cliff

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986> for Window=
s 10

Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

Ed Woods

--_000_CY4PR22MB09208D1DF5F49FE31236B6A5FA430CY4PR22MB0920namp_
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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The fuel line into the pump (from the tank) is 5/16 =
and calls for the TL0008 ferrule and a 60142 tube nut, which is longer than=
 the typical US 5/16 tube nut. The pump outlet to the carbs is =BC=94 tubin=
g, and the ferrule and tube nut on that
 line are special: Standard part nos 102729 and 60179, respectively. 102729=
 has a profile shaped something like this:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img width=3D"157" height=3D"42" style=3D"width:1.63=
54in;height:.4375in" id=3D"Freeform_x003a__x0020_Shape_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:=
[email-masked]"></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The tube nut presses on the flat surface at the left=
, the tapered surface to the right seals at the pump body.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At the moment I can=92t find the old one I=92ve got =
somewhere.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cliff</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink=
/?LinkId=3D550986">
Mail</a> for Windows 10</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E=
1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Joel E. Justin</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:49 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;color:black">This pi=
qued my interest as I've had (along with others in my club) leaks at the fu=
el pump inlet, and it seemed logical if modern ferrules were 0.25&quot; vs =
the original 0.30&quot;. I looked at several ferrules
 I have and they are all 0.25&quot;. So then I looked up the ferrule in the=
 Standard Triumph Hardware Catalog. It is a TL0008 and according to the spe=
cs, it was: suited for pipe diameter 5/16&quot; with a nominal internal dia=
meter of 0.315&quot;-0.318&quot; and a thickness (<i>length</i>)
 of 0.250&quot;. So it appears that the length was not 0.300&quot;. Maybe t=
he shape was different of the wall thickness was wider on the original ferr=
ules???<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><img bo=
rder=3D"0" width=3D"1177" height=3D"639" style=3D"width:12.2604in;height:6.=
6562in" id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:d01a28c2-2e95-4b1d-bbce-3778a14cb=
c19"></span><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"694" height=3D"2" style=
=3D"width:7.2291in;height:.0208in" id=3D"Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_2" src=
=3D"cid:[email-masked]"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;=
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'EDWARD WOODS' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'Greg Lemon' &lt;grg=
[email-masked]&gt;; 'staffel' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Triumphs' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</span> <o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">Ed is correct, it is the ferru=
le that does the sealing when it is compressed by the threaded fitting tigh=
tening down to the fuel pump housing. The fuel pipe threads into the fuel p=
ump with a 5/16=94 compression fitting.
 If replaced, these may be prone to leaking fuel because the original ferru=
le was .297=94 to .303=94 in length whereas most North American ferrules ar=
e only .247=94 to .253=94 in length. Consequently, the compression fitting =
often bottoms out before the ferrule is
 properly compressed. The Roadster Factory sells compression fittings and f=
errules that they claim do not have this problem. Also, several years ago, =
Scott uhring suggested using two ferrules end to end and filed down on the =
mating surface to get the necessary
 length.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"242=
" height=3D"276" style=3D"width:2.5208in;height:2.875in" id=3D"x_Picture_x0=
020_1" src=3D"cid:[email-masked]"></span><span lang=3D"EN-C=
A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> EDWARD WOODS &lt;[email-masked]&g=
t; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> August 11, 2020 7:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Lemon &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; staffel &lt;staffel@comcast=
.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod<span lang=3D"EN-=
CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">And isn't it the br=
ass &quot;acorn&quot; that seals the connection at the pump, not the thread=
s? ISTR that the original &quot;acorn&quot; is a bit longer than the
 replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At o=
ne time there was someone making a longer &quot;acorn&quot; to solve this p=
roblem.&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal"><span lang=3D"EN-CA" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:#333333">Ed Woods
</span><span lang=3D"EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"xmsonormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:.5in=
;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang=3D"EN-CA">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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---

From: "andrew uprichard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:47:03 -0400

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On the advice of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it =
worked !

=20

Andrew Uprichard

Jackson, Michigan

=20

From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of DAVID =
MASSEY
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

=20

I've heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in =
half to achieve the desired length.  I haven't tried it myself since I =
got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that =
would have been my next step.

=20

Dave=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

=20

Ed Woods=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Good Luck=20

=20

Greg Lemon=20

TR250=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Sherman D Taffel =20

65 TR4 CT 50054L=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs> http://www.team.net/archive

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>On the =
advice of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it worked =
!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Andrew Uprichard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'>Jackson, Michigan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Triumphs =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>DAVID =
MASSEY<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery =
Issue &amp; Mod<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I'v=
e heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in half =
to achieve the desired length.&nbsp; I haven't tried it myself since I =
got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that =
would have been my next step.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Dav=
e </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
--Original Message-----<br>From: EDWARD WOODS &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To: =
Greg Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; staffel =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: =
Triumphs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r>Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am<br>Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery =
Issue &amp; Mod<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
id=3Dyiv6420788603><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>And isn't it the brass &quot;acorn&quot; that seals the connection at =
the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original &quot;acorn&quot; is a =
bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and =
can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer =
&quot;acorn&quot; to solve this problem.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Ed Woods <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
id=3Dyiv6420788603yqtfd34247><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Jus=
t a couple random thoughts here.&nbsp; One, I could not figure out from =
your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.&nbsp; =
My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the =
like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low =
in back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.&nbsp; =
You seem somewhat concerned about originality.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sec=
ond, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard =
to fit.&nbsp; There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR =
ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have =
been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten =
years). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Goo=
d Luck <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gre=
g Lemon <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>TR2=
50 <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Sev=
eral years ago on an evening&nbsp; club drive in the Catoctin Mts of =
Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark =
&amp; started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. =
Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into =
Fredericksburg and a Motel. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Nex=
t morning, still raining,&nbsp; the issue was apparent: in the bottom of =
the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.&nbsp; Cleaned the bowl &amp; =
nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club =
friend came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fur=
ther examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So =
much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Als=
o examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so =
while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>A =
few months later got everything back together.&nbsp; The engine started =
right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads =
on fuel feed of the original&nbsp; curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new =
pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Mag=
nifying glass exam of the original Triumph&nbsp; Male pipe 'nut' and the =
female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread =
mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So =
after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and =
install an electric pump, ala&nbsp;Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs =
(Lotus 907). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wel=
l, I installed a couple of&nbsp; different new electric&nbsp; =
pumps&nbsp; adjacent to the mechanical pump. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
y would never 'self prime'.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Now=
, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED =
the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank =
is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the =
original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So =
I am redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and securing the =
new fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump&nbsp; right on the =
frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool =
cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Nex=
t will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) =
to meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; adjacent to the Water =
pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump =
, ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the =
front of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Fin=
ally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I&n=
bsp; wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing =
glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to =
Roadworthy status. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Obv=
iously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At =
least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have =
3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite =
side of the engine.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>She=
rman D Taffel&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Col=
umbia MD and Goldvein VA&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>65 =
TR4 CT 50054L <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>( =
per VTR the last known TR4 produced &amp; shipped to USA) =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yiv6420788603m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#575757'>Se=
nt via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable =
smartphone <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3D"yiv6420788603m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature"><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#575757'>Se=
nt via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable =
smartphone <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>** =
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> ** <br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
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mail.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>** =
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
** <br><br>Donate: <a =
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<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:48:42 +0000 (UTC)

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 That is likely where I heard it, too.
Let's keep all this good advice in circulation.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: andrew uprichard <[email-masked]>
To: 'DAVID MASSEY' <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]; grglmn@gmail.=
com; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:47 am
Subject: RE: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod

#yiv6067404187 #yiv6067404187 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv=
6067404187 #yiv6067404187 p.yiv6067404187MsoNormal, #yiv6067404187 li.yiv60=
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nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv6067404187 a:link, #yiv606740418=
7 span.yiv6067404187MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yi=
v6067404187 span.yiv6067404187EmailStyle19 {font-family:New serif;color:#1F=
497D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}#yiv60=
67404187 .yiv6067404187MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}=
#yiv6067404187 div.yiv6067404187WordSection1 {}#yiv6067404187 On the advice=
 of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it worked ! =C2=A0And=
rew UprichardJackson, Michigan =C2=A0From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox=
.team.net> On Behalf Of DAVID MASSEY
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & Mod =C2=A0I've heard of people =
adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in half to achieve the desir=
ed length.=C2=A0 I haven't tried it myself since I got mine to seal up with=
 the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that would have been my next ste=
p. =C2=A0Dave  =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>
To: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>; staffel <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue & ModAnd isn't it the brass "acor=
n" that seals the connection at the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the or=
iginal "acorn" is a bit longer than the replacements available which limits=
 compression and can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a l=
onger "acorn" to solve this problem.=C2=A0  =C2=A0Ed Woods=20
On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon <[email-masked]> wrote:  =C2=A0 =C2=A0J=
ust a couple random thoughts here.=C2=A0 One, I could not figure out from y=
our message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.=C2=A0 My =
understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to p=
ull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back, tha=
t would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.=C2=A0 You seem somewh=
at concerned about originality.=C2=A0=C2=A0  =C2=A0Second, mechanical pump =
rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard to fit.=C2=A0 There are=
 lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR ten years ago, rebuilding=
 the pump is not one of them, so it must have been fairly easy to do and wo=
rked (and has been working fine for ten years).  =C2=A0Good Luck  =C2=A0Gre=
g Lemon TR250  =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel <=
 [email-masked]> wrote:=20
 =C2=A0Several years ago on an evening=C2=A0 club drive in the Catoctin Mts=
 of Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark =
& started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel =
flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg an=
d a Motel.  =C2=A0Next morning, still raining,=C2=A0 the issue was apparent=
: in the bottom of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.=C2=A0 Cleane=
d the bowl & nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a=
 Jag club friend came by and got his trailer & towed me home.  =C2=A0Furthe=
r examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much =
for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'.  =C2=A0Also examination of th=
e fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the c=
arbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.=C2=A0  =C2=A0A few months later got ever=
ything back together.=C2=A0 The engine started right up & ran fine. But no =
matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed of the original=C2=A0 c=
urved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the l=
eak wouldn't stop.=C2=A0  =C2=A0Magnifying glass exam of the original Trium=
ph=C2=A0 Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump r=
evealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric eit=
her.=C2=A0  =C2=A0So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechan=
ical pump and install an electric pump, ala=C2=A0Jaguar V12s & Jensen Heale=
y / GTs (Lotus 907).  =C2=A0Well, I installed a couple of=C2=A0 different n=
ew electric=C2=A0 pumps=C2=A0 adjacent to the mechanical pump.  =C2=A0They =
would never 'self prime'.=C2=A0  =C2=A0Now, returning to the project. I rem=
oved the mechanical pump, & DRAINED the tank of the old fuel. It seems that=
 the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pum=
p to be very low ( like the original input height of the original pump, to =
receive fuel.=C2=A0  =C2=A0So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning & new pa=
int) and securing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter & elec pump=C2=A0 =
right on the frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after D=
remel Tool cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump.  =C2=A0=
Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) t=
o meet the elec pump feed right behind & adjacent to the Water pump. The or=
iginal copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and fo=
rward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the engin=
e & then across to the carburetor feeds.  =C2=A0Finally hope this resolves =
the fuel delivery issue.  =C2=A0I=C2=A0 wanted to share a warning about the=
 TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So others can not waste years gett=
ing their TRs back to Roadworthy status.  =C2=A0Obviously not going to driv=
e a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 & 6s, ( un=
like Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exha=
ust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.=C2=A0  =C2=A0Sherman =
D Taffel=C2=A0 Columbia MD and Goldvein VA=C2=A0 65 TR4 CT 50054L ( per VTR=
 the last known TR4 produced & shipped to USA)  =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent via the S=
amsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone  =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartph=
one  =C2=A0** [email-masked] **=20

mail.com=20

comcast.net  =C2=A0

[email-masked]
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<div style="color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size="3">That is likely where I heard it, too.</font></div>

<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size="3">Let's keep all this good advice in circulation.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: andrew uprichard &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: 'DAVID MASSEY' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]<br>
Cc: [email-masked]<br>
Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:47 am<br>
Subject: RE: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod<br>
<br>

<div id="yiv6067404187"><style>#yiv6067404187 #yiv6067404187 --
 
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<div class="yiv6067404187WordSection1">
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:#1F497D;">On the advice of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it worked !</span></div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:#1F497D;"> &nbsp;</span></div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:#1F497D;">Andrew Uprichard</span></div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:#1F497D;">Jackson, Michigan</span></div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:New serif;color:#1F497D;"> &nbsp;</span></div>

<div class="yiv6067404187yqt7493288627" id="yiv6067404187yqt62025">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>DAVID MASSEY<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]<br clear="none"><b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]<br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</div>
</div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">I've heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in half to achieve the desired length.&nbsp; I haven't tried it myself since I got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that would have been my next step.</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Dave </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"></span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">From: EDWARD WOODS &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear="none">To: Greg Lemon &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; staffel &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear="none">Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear="none">Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am<br clear="none">Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</span></div>

<div id="yiv6067404187">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#333333;">And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#333333;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#333333;">Ed Woods </span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div id="yiv6067404187yqtfd34247">
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Just a couple random thoughts here.&nbsp; One, I could not figure out from your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.&nbsp; My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.&nbsp; You seem somewhat concerned about originality.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard to fit.&nbsp; There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years). </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Good Luck </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Greg Lemon </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">TR250 </span></div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>

<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Several years ago on an evening&nbsp; club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark &amp; started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a Motel. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Next morning, still raining,&nbsp; the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.&nbsp; Cleaned the bowl &amp; nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">A few months later got everything back together.&nbsp; The engine started right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed of the original&nbsp; curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph&nbsp; Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and install an electric pump, ala&nbsp;Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907). </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Well, I installed a couple of&nbsp; different new electric&nbsp; pumps&nbsp; adjacent to the mechanical pump. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">They would never 'self prime'.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and securing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump&nbsp; right on the frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; adjacent to the Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">I&nbsp; wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy status. </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Sherman D Taffel&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">Columbia MD and Goldvein VA&nbsp; </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">65 TR4 CT 50054L </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">( per VTR the last known TR4 produced &amp; shipped to USA) </span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>

<div id="yiv6067404187m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone </span></div>
</div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
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<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
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<div id="yiv6067404187m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone </span></div>
</div>
</div>

<div>
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>
</div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">** <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> ** <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br clear="none">Archive: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>&nbsp; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a> </span></div>
</blockquote></div>

<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">** <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> ** <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br clear="none">Archive: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv6067404187yqtfd71233">
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
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</blockquote></div>
</div>

<div id="yiv6067404187yqtfd76368">
<div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">** <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear="none">Archive: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 13:46:51 -0400 (EDT)

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   Only to set the record straight: the TRF pumps are manufactured in Italy.
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   <br>
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   Ed
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  <blockquote type="cite">
   <div>
    On 08/11/2020 12:48 PM DAVID MASSEY &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
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    <br>
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    <br>
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     <span style="font-size: medium;">That is likely where I heard it, too.</span>
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     <span style="font-size: medium;"><br></span>
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     <span style="font-size: medium;">Let's keep all this good advice in circulation.</span>
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     <br>
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    <div style="clear: both;">
     <span style="font-size: large;">Dave </span>
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     <br>
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     <br>
    </div>
    <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">
     -----Original Message-----
     <br>From: andrew uprichard &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
     <br>To: 'DAVID MASSEY' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
     <br>Cc: [email-masked]
     <br>Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:47 am
     <br>Subject: RE: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod
     <br>
     <br>
     <div id="yiv6067404187">
      <div>
       <div class="yiv6067404187WordSection1">
        <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
         <span style="font-family: New serif; color: #1f497d;">On the advice of the late great Randall Young, I tried it once and it worked !</span>
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        <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
         <span style="font-family: New serif; color: #1f497d;"> &nbsp;</span>
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        <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
         <span style="font-family: New serif; color: #1f497d;">Andrew Uprichard</span>
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        <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
         <span style="font-family: New serif; color: #1f497d;">Jackson, Michigan</span>
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        <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
         <span style="font-family: New serif; color: #1f497d;"> &nbsp;</span>
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        <div id="yiv6067404187yqt62025" class="yiv6067404187yqt7493288627">
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          <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
           <strong>From:</strong> Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt; 
           <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>DAVID MASSEY
           <br clear="none">
           <strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:30 AM
           <br clear="none">
           <strong>To:</strong> [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
           <br clear="none">
           <strong>Cc:</strong> [email-masked]
           <br clear="none">
           <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod
          </div>
         </div>
         <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
          <br>
         </div>
         <div>
          <div>
           <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
            <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">I've heard of people adding a second compression sleeve (acorn) cut in half to achieve the desired length.&nbsp; I haven't tried it myself since I got mine to seal up with the standard sleeve but if I had an issue that would have been my next step.</span>
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            <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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           <div style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
            <span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Dave </span>
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            <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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            <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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           <div style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
            <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">From: EDWARD WOODS &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear="none">To: Greg Lemon &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; staffel &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear="none">Cc: Triumphs &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear="none">Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2020 6:01 am<br clear="none">Subject: Re: [TR] TR4 Fuel Delivery Issue &amp; Mod</span>
           </div>
           <div id="yiv6067404187">
            <div>
             <div>
              <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
               <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: #333333;">And isn't it the brass "acorn" that seals the connection at the pump, not the threads? ISTR that the original "acorn" is a bit longer than the replacements available which limits compression and can cause a leak. At one time there was someone making a longer "acorn" to solve this problem.&nbsp; </span>
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               <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: #333333;"> &nbsp;</span>
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              <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
               <span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: #333333;">Ed Woods </span>
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             <blockquote>
              <div id="yiv6067404187yqtfd34247">
               <div>
                <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                 <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">On 08/10/2020 11:57 PM Greg Lemon &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span>
                </div>
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                <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                 <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                 <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                 <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Just a couple random thoughts here.&nbsp; One, I could not figure out from your message where exactly you ended up putting the electric pump.&nbsp; My understanding is most electric pumps like to push better than the like to pull, MG and Healey pumps are mounted close to the tank and low in back, that would be a good place for the new TR electric pump.&nbsp; You seem somewhat concerned about originality.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Second, mechanical pump rebuild kits are readily available and not too hard to fit.&nbsp; There are lots of things I remember about rebuilding my TR ten years ago, rebuilding the pump is not one of them, so it must have been fairly easy to do and worked (and has been working fine for ten years). </span>
                 </div>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Good Luck </span>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                <div>
                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Greg Lemon </span>
                 </div>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">TR250 </span>
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                   <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                  <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                   <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                </div>
               </div>
               <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                <div>
                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:43 PM staffel &lt; <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote: </span>
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                <blockquote>
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                   <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                    <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Several years ago on an evening&nbsp; club drive in the Catoctin Mts of Maryland my TR4 developed running/ hesitation issues. Then it got dark &amp; started to rain. Could not drive the car steady over 45mph. Typical fuel flow clogging issue symptoms. Fortunately we made it into Fredericksburg and a Motel. </span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Next morning, still raining,&nbsp; the issue was apparent: in the bottom of the Glass fuel bowl- a pile of 'rust dust'.&nbsp; Cleaned the bowl &amp; nursed the car home 30 miles, but it kept dying. Fortunately a Jag club friend came by and got his trailer &amp; towed me home. </span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Further examination determined sediment also in the CD carbs fuel bowls. So much for the fuel pump 'screen' being 'effective'. </span>
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                   </div>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
                    </div>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Also examination of the fuel pump (original) revealed a weak diaphragm, so while working on the carbs, ordered a new pump from TRF.&nbsp; </span>
                    </div>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">A few months later got everything back together.&nbsp; The engine started right up &amp; ran fine. But no matter how I tried to seal the threads on fuel feed of the original&nbsp; curved pipe inlet 'nut' to the new pump ( pipe dope, teflon tape, rtv) the leak wouldn't stop.&nbsp; </span>
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                   </div>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Magnifying glass exam of the original Triumph&nbsp; Male pipe 'nut' and the female threaded bore of the new TRF pump revealed a slight thread mismatch - Chinese machining. It was not Metric either.&nbsp; </span>
                    </div>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                   <div>
                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">So after talking with TRF, I decided to forget the mechanical pump and install an electric pump, ala&nbsp;Jaguar V12s &amp; Jensen Healey / GTs (Lotus 907). </span>
                    </div>
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                   <div>
                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                   <div>
                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Well, I installed a couple of&nbsp; different new electric&nbsp; pumps&nbsp; adjacent to the mechanical pump. </span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">They would never 'self prime'.&nbsp; </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Now, returning to the project. I removed the mechanical pump, &amp; DRAINED the tank of the old fuel. It seems that the gravity feed when the tank is less than 1/2 full requires the elec pump to be very low ( like the original input height of the original pump, to receive fuel.&nbsp; </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">So I am redetailing the frame (cleaning &amp; new paint) and securing the new fuel line, inline glass Filter &amp; elec pump&nbsp; right on the frame. This allows the steel feed line from the tank ( after Dremel Tool cutting) to match the new location of the electric pump. </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Next will be modifying a new copper fuel line ( semblance of originality) to meet the elec pump feed right behind &amp; adjacent to the Water pump. The original copper pipe mated to the back of the mechanical pump , ran up and forward along the engine at the cylinder head level to the front of the engine &amp; then across to the carburetor feeds. </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Finally hope this resolves the fuel delivery issue. </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">I&nbsp; wanted to share a warning about the TRF pump supplier manufacturing glitch. So others can not waste years getting their TRs back to Roadworthy status. </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Obviously not going to drive a car with weeping fuel near a hot engine. At least on the TR4 &amp; 6s, ( unlike Jaguar 6s ( have 2) or V12s ( have 3), Jensen GTs ( have 3) ; the exhaust Manifolds are on the opposite side of the engine.&nbsp; </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Sherman D Taffel&nbsp; </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">Columbia MD and Goldvein VA&nbsp; </span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">65 TR4 CT 50054L </span>
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                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">( per VTR the last known TR4 produced &amp; shipped to USA) </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                   <div id="yiv6067404187m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
                    <div>
                     <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                      <span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: #575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone </span>
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                     <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                    <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                  <div id="yiv6067404187m_-6070975799002559859composer_signature">
                   <div>
                    <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                     <span style="font-size: 8.5pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: #575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S10, an AT&amp;T 5G Evolution capable smartphone </span>
                    </div>
                   </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                   <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                    <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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                 <div class="yiv6067404187MsoNormal">
                  <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a> ** <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br clear="none">Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>&nbsp; <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/archive</a> <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a> </span>
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                <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a> ** <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br clear="none">Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/archive</a> </span>
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                <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;"> &nbsp;</span>
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             <span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: black;">** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear="none">Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a><a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" target="_blank" shape="rect" rel="noopener">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a></span>
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