Subject: Re: [TR] Manual gearbox with J type OD

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 21:03:53 -0400

I don't know that it's tilted to the right (I never noticed) but I do
know that there are two close-fitting pins to use to get the gearbox
properly aligned to the backplate on the engine.  When all the other
bolts are tight, you push the pins out and slide the last two bolts in
those holes.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:53 PM Sujit Roy <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>
> While installing the gearbox this weekend on a Stag, I noticed the gearbox is very slightly tilted to the right. I'm wondering if the TR6 which shares a similar looking box is also tilted?
> If it is does anyone know why?
> Sujit
>
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 12:19:24 +0100

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The in line six engine was tilted by six degrees on the Triumph 2000 and 250=
0 to achieve a low bonnet line. As the Stag was originally planned to have t=
wo engines - the 2500 six and the V8, the position of the engine mounts was c=
learly never changed.

Jonmac

At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:
Lord Uxbridge:  =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D
Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D

> On 30 Jun 2020, at 00:50, Sujit Roy <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> While installing the gearbox this weekend on a Stag, I noticed the gearbox=
 is very slightly tilted to the right. I'm wondering if the TR6 which shares=
 a similar looking box is also tilted?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.ma=
[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">The in line six engine was tilted by six de=
grees on the Triumph 2000 and 2500 to achieve a low bonnet line. As the Stag=
 was originally planned to have two engines - the 2500 six and the V8, the p=
osition of the engine mounts was clearly never changed.<div><br></div><div>J=
onmac<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">At the Battle of Wat=
erloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxbridge: &nbsp;=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lo=
st my leg=E2=80=9D</div><div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so y=
ou have!=E2=80=9D</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 30 Jun 2=
020, at 00:50, Sujit Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triump=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><h2 class=3D"gmail-b-post__title gmail-js-p=
ost-title gmail-b-post__hide-when-deleted" style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;b=
order:0px;font-size:1.6rem;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;ve=
rtical-align:baseline;color:rgb(17,17,17);background-color:rgb(235,244,249)"=
><br></h2></div>While installing the gearbox this weekend on a Stag, I notic=
ed the gearbox is very slightly tilted to the right. I'm wondering if the TR=
6 which shares a similar looking box is also tilted?<div>If it is does anyon=
e know why?</div><div>Sujit<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature=
" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Sujit Roy<br>Cupe=
rtino, California</div><div><br><a href=3D"https://triumphstagblog.wordpress=
.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br><br><=
/div></div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **</span><=
br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html=
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ve</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><=
/span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 09:27:20 -0700

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Hello Jonmac,
Thanks for your email. On the Stag, the engine appears level. The offset is
taken up by the engine plate. I dont have my parts book with me but was
that engine plate repurposed from a Triumph 2000, 2.5 as there are some
oddities on it which don't match up with the bell housing on the Stag.
Regards, Sujit

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:19 AM John Macartney <[email-masked]=
k>
wrote:

> The in line six engine was tilted by six degrees on the Triumph 2000 and
> 2500 to achieve a low bonnet line. As the Stag was originally planned to
> have two engines - the 2500 six and the V8, the position of the engine
> mounts was clearly never changed.
>
> Jonmac
>
> While installing the gearbox this weekend on a Stag, I noticed the gearbo=
x
> is very slightly tilted to the right. I'm wondering if the TR6 which shar=
es
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked].=
uk

--=20
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello Jonmac,<div>Thanks for your email. On the Stag, the =
engine appears level. The offset=C2=A0is taken up by the engine plate. I do=
nt=C2=A0have my parts book with me but was that engine=C2=A0plate repurpose=
d from a Triumph 2000, 2.5 as there=C2=A0are some oddities on it which don&=
#39;t=C2=A0match up with the=C2=A0bell housing on the Stag.</div><div>Regar=
ds, Sujit</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:19 AM John Macartney &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"auto">The in line six engine was tilted by six degrees on the Triumph=
 2000 and 2500 to achieve a low bonnet line. As the Stag was originally pla=
nned to have two engines - the 2500 six and the V8, the position of the eng=
ine mounts was clearly never changed.<div><br></div><div>Jonmac<br><br><div=
 id=3D"gmail-m_1436546667506141566AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">At the Ba=
ttle of Waterloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxbridge: =C2=A0=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=
=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D</div><div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy =
God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br>On 30 Jun 2020, at 00:50, Sujit Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphstag@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></=
div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><h2 st=
yle=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:1.6rem;font-family:Arial=
,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(17,17,17);b=
ackground-color:rgb(235,244,249)"><br></h2></div>While installing the gearb=
ox this weekend on a Stag, I noticed the gearbox is very slightly tilted to=
 the right. I&#39;m wondering if the TR6 which shares a similar looking box=
 is also tilted?<div>If it is does anyone know why?</div><div>Sujit<br><br>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, California</=
div><div><br><a href=3D"https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_=
blank">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br><br></div></div></div>=
</div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m.net</a> **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www=
.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a=
></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumph=
s" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> =C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/ar=
chive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.maca=
[email-masked]</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquo=
te></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, California</=
div><div><br><a href=3D"https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_=
blank">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br><br></div></div></div>

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 19:04:32 +0100

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Hi, Sujit

In answer to your query, very likely. I never got really close to engineeri=
ng variances because I was in Export Sales but part of the job was to study=
 and remember all the Engineering Change Bulletins and Service campaign cha=
nges. It makes sense to have an engine plate that would cover both engines =
and especially for Stag. What many people don=E2=80=99t know is that the St=
ag was originally going to have the TR6 2498cc engine as standard for all m=
arkets except North America where the V8 was to be a standard fitting with =
the V8 also being optional for all other markets. The decision to fit the V=
8 for all markets was taken very late in the day. I doubt there would be di=
fferent engine mounts for the in-line or V8 because quite a large number of=
 Stags in the UK have been retro fitted with the 2498cc engine, suitably tu=
ned with twin SU carbs, a. TR5 cylinder head and camshaft and they are just=
 a quick as the V8. The only thing missing is the V8 noise. Upgrading the a=
xle ratio from the original 3.7:1 unit in favour of one from the fuel injec=
ted saloon of 3.45:1 is another improvement, especially with a four speed B=
org Warner or ZF slush box from a Volvo or BMW.

As you may know, the Stag body was a shorter version of the larger saloon c=
ar whose monocoque body was exceptionally rigid. I do clearly recall the to=
rsional rigidity of the saloon was exceptional for its day, requiring 6,500=
 lbs/ft of torque to twist it one degree. By Michelotti revamping the saloo=
n into an open top tourer, much of that rigidity would be lost and that is =
why the =E2=80=98T=E2=80=99 bar was fitted. It wasn=E2=80=99t quite as twis=
t resistant as the saloon, but good enough. At least you didn=E2=80=99t hav=
e to call on brute strength to line up the soft or hard top to engage the l=
ocking pegs on the screen rail.  

Hope this helps. 

Jonmac

From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]> 
Sent: 30 June 2020 17:27
To: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Cc: Triumphs <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Manual gearbox with J type OD

Hello Jonmac,

Thanks for your email. On the Stag, the engine appears level. The offset is=
 taken up by the engine plate. I dont have my parts book with me but was th=
at engine plate repurposed from a Triumph 2000, 2.5 as there are some oddit=
ies on it which don't match up with the bell housing on the Stag.

Regards, Sujit

The in line six engine was tilted by six degrees on the Triumph 2000 and 25=
00 to achieve a low bonnet line. As the Stag was originally planned to have=
 two engines - the 2500 six and the V8, the position of the engine mounts w=
as clearly never changed.

Jonmac

[email-masked]> > wrote:

While installing the gearbox this weekend on a Stag, I noticed the gearbox =
is very slightly tilted to the right. I'm wondering if the TR6 which shares=
 a similar looking box is also tilted?

Sujit

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]

-- 

Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi, Sujit<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>In answer to your query, very likel=
y. I never got really close to engineering variances because I was in Expor=
t Sales but part of the job was to study and remember all the Engineering C=
hange Bulletins and Service campaign changes. It makes sense to have an eng=
ine plate that would cover both engines and especially for Stag. What many =
people don=E2=80=99t know is that the Stag was originally going to have the=
 TR6 2498cc engine as standard for all markets except North America where t=
he V8 was to be a standard fitting with the V8 also being optional for all =
other markets. The decision to fit the V8 for all markets was taken very la=
te in the day. I doubt there would be different engine mounts for the in-li=
ne or V8 because quite a large number of Stags in the UK have been retro fi=
tted with the 2498cc engine, suitably tuned with twin SU carbs, a. TR5 cyli=
nder head and camshaft and they are just a quick as the V8. The only thing =
missing is the V8 noise. Upgrading the axle ratio from the original 3.7:1 u=
nit in favour of one from the fuel injected saloon of 3.45:1 is another imp=
rovement, especially with a four speed Borg Warner or ZF slush box from a V=
olvo or BMW.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>A=
s you may know, the Stag body was a shorter version of the larger saloon ca=
r whose monocoque body was exceptionally rigid. I do clearly recall the tor=
sional rigidity of the saloon was exceptional for its day, requiring 6,500 =
lbs/ft of torque to twist it one degree. By Michelotti revamping the saloon=
 into an open top tourer, much of that rigidity would be lost and that is w=
hy the =E2=80=98T=E2=80=99 bar was fitted. It wasn=E2=80=99t quite as twist=
 resistant as the saloon, but good enough. At least you didn=E2=80=99t have=
 to call on brute strength to line up the soft or hard top to engage the lo=
cking pegs on the screen rail. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-=
fareast-language:EN-US'>Hope this helps. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jonmac<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><d=
iv style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0c=
m 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lan=
g=3DEN-US> Sujit Roy &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> 30 June=
 2020 17:27<br><b>To:</b> John Macartney &lt;[email-masked]&g=
t;<br><b>Cc:</b> Triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b=
> Re: [TR] Manual gearbox with J type OD<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello Jonmac,<=
o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for your email. On the Stag,=
 the engine appears level. The offset&nbsp;is taken up by the engine plate.=
 I dont&nbsp;have my parts book with me but was that engine&nbsp;plate repu=
rposed from a Triumph 2000, 2.5 as there&nbsp;are some oddities on it which=
 don't&nbsp;match up with the&nbsp;bell housing on the Stag.<o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards, Sujit<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On T=
ue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:19 AM John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:John.Macar=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;p=
adding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>The in line six engine was tilted by six degrees on the Triump=
h 2000 and 2500 to achieve a low bonnet line. As the Stag was originally pl=
anned to have two engines - the 2500 six and the V8, the position of the en=
gine mounts was clearly never changed.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bo=
ttom:12.0pt'>Jonmac<o:p></o:p></p><div id=3D"gmail-m_1436546667506141566App=
leMailSignature"><p class=3DMsoNormal>At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:<o:p>=
</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Lord Uxbridge: &nbsp;=E2=80=9CBy God, S=
ir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D<=
o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 30 Jun =
2020, at 00:50, Sujit Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><h2 s=
tyle=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:#EBF4F9;vertical-align:=
baseline;font-size:1.6rem'><span style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;co=
lor:#111111'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></h2></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>While =
installing the gearbox this weekend on a Stag, I noticed the gearbox is ver=
y slightly tilted to the right. I'm wondering if the TR6 which shares a sim=
ilar looking box is also tilted?<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>If=
 it is does anyone know why?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Sujit<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, California<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><a href=3D"https://tr=
iumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog.wor=
dpress.com/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team=
=2Enet/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><b=
r>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www=
=2Eteam.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br><=
br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tri=
umphs/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></p></=
div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br cl=
ear=3Dall><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, California<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><a href=3D"https://triumphstagb=
log.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com=
/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A=
1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
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