Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs

From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:52:28 -0500

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I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3.   Where might the=
 other be?
Thx,
Bill B
TS30800L

Serenity Now......

On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, was designe=
d to a budget.  These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fuses.  As such som=
e items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil.  And those things that=
 are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be sized to carry the current fo=
r everything on that circuit.  But the wires were sized for the particular l=
oad.  A thinner wire will have a nigher resistance and under  short-circuit c=
onditions the current can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse b=
ut the current will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.

Another factor against us is the age of the harness.  The connector contacts=
 get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances.  Wire strands can=
 fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in overheating unde=
r normal use.  The insulation gets stiff and cracks exposing the wires withi=
n.  Lots of potential failure modes here. =20

Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of fus=
es.  Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have their o=
wn fuses.  This means you can size the fuse more appropriately for the wire u=
sed to power that device.  Also the connectors used are water tight and don'=
t corrode as quickly.  Also, they are, on the whole, a lot younger and there=
fore retain more of their original integrety.

But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness may b=
e a good investment.

Dave=20

-----Original Message-----
From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
To: Tom Householder <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] daily digest <[email-masked]>; FOT List=
 <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs

Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash.  I=
 should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section could mel=
t.=20
Bill B

Serenity Now......

On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <[email-masked]> wrote=
:

=EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in the=
 looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?

Trying to answer a question asked of me.=20

Tom=20
** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive

[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=
=80=9858 TR3. &nbsp; Where might the other be?<div>Thx,</div><div>Bill B</di=
v><div>TS30800L<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br>On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY &lt;[email-masked]&gt=
; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car a=
s a whole, was designed to a budget.&nbsp; These harnesses had three (count '=
em, 3) fuses.&nbsp; As such some items were unfused like the headlamps and t=
he coil.&nbsp; And those things that are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had=
 to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.&nbsp; But t=
he wires were sized for the particular load.&nbsp; A thinner wire will have a=
 nigher resistance and under&nbsp; short-circuit conditions the current can b=
e limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the current will cause e=
nough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Another factor against us is the age of the harness.&n=
bsp; The connector contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal circu=
mstances.&nbsp; Wire strands can fatigue and break within the insulation aga=
in resulting in overheating under normal use.&nbsp; The insulation gets stif=
f and cracks exposing the wires within.&nbsp; Lots of potential failure mode=
s here.&nbsp; <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Compare this design to those found in modern cars you w=
ill see dozens of fuses.&nbsp; Sure there are a lot more electrical items bu=
t most things have their own fuses.&nbsp; This means you can size the fuse m=
ore appropriately for the wire used to power that device.&nbsp; Also the con=
nectors used are water tight and don't corrode as quickly.&nbsp; Also, they a=
re, on the whole, a lot younger and therefore retain more of their original i=
ntegrety.</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-do=
wn a new harness may be a good investment.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br>
From: bill beecher &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Tom Householder &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: [email-masked] daily digest &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; FO=
T List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown be=
hind the dash.&nbsp; I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most=
 any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On Jun 2=
3, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">trhouse@co=
lumbus.rr.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFO=
ver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in the looms to t=
he tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"=
><br clear=3D"none">Trying to answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"no=
ne"><br clear=3D"none">Tom <br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">tri=
[email-masked]</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a s=
hape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect=
" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D=
"none"><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http=
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blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</=
a>
<div class=3D"yqt6167601069" id=3D"yqtfd43753"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" href=3D=
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</div>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 16:52:49 +0100

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I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go wrong w=
ith old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were built to a b=
udget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so many h=
ave. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also prudent to c=
omment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However, it=E2=
=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for Italy an=
d Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had 12 main f=
uses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that was used on a=
ll hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of plating. Trouble i=
s, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=99re planning o=
n a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magneti Marelli used t=
o have a subsidiary that made them.

Jonmac

At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:
Lord Uxbridge:  =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D
Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D

> On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3.   Where might t=
he other be?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, was desig=
ned to a budget.  These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fuses.  As such s=
ome items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil.  And those things th=
at are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be sized to carry the current f=
or everything on that circuit.  But the wires were sized for the particular l=
oad.  A thinner wire will have a nigher resistance and under  short-circuit c=
onditions the current can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse b=
ut the current will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.
>=20
> Another factor against us is the age of the harness.  The connector contac=
ts get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances.  Wire strands c=
an fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in overheating un=
der normal use.  The insulation gets stiff and cracks exposing the wires wit=
hin.  Lots of potential failure modes here. =20
>=20
> Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of f=
uses.  Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have their=
 own fuses.  This means you can size the fuse more appropriately for the wir=
e used to power that device.  Also the connectors used are water tight and d=
on't corrode as quickly.  Also, they are, on the whole, a lot younger and th=
erefore retain more of their original integrety.
>=20
> But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness may=
 be a good investment.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Cc: [email-masked] daily digest <[email-masked]>; FOT Li=
st <[email-masked]>
>=20
> Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash. =
 I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section could m=
elt.=20
> Bill B
>=20
> Serenity Now......
>=20
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in t=
he looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/notakit=
[email-masked]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archiv=
e
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1ma=
[email-masked]
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.ma=
[email-masked]

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlight=
ing the things that can go wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct i=
n saying the cars were built to a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never=
 built to last as long as so many have. Ten years was the engineered life ex=
pectancy. Dave is also prudent to comment on the very limited number of fuse=
s for the US market. However, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the da=
ys of yore, cars bound for Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. I=
IRC, Italy spec cars had 12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also ba=
nned the plating that was used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on=
 another form of plating. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was n=
ow. So, if you=E2=80=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to o=
riginal spec. Magneti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.<div>=
<br></div><div>Jonmac<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">At t=
he Battle of Waterloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxbridge: &nbsp;=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir -=
 I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D</div><div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy=
 God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div><div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br>On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:notakitcar=
@yahoo.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"tex=
t/html; charset=3Dutf-8">I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=98=
58 TR3. &nbsp; Where might the other be?<div>Thx,</div><div>Bill B</div><div=
>TS30800L<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br>On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dave1mass=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF

<div><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----O=
riginal Message-----<br>
From: bill beecher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">notakitcar@ya=
hoo.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: Tom Householder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">trhouse@c=
olumbus.rr.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> d=
aily digest &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt;; FOT List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">fot@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>

</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><s=
pan>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
> **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net=
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am.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a h=
ref=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.macartney@ukpips.=
org.uk">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.macartney@ukpips=
.org.uk</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:42:22 -0500

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As usual, Jonmac's recollections are gold dust.  I hoard every scrap!
(Thanks for 'em, John!)

Does anyone have an Italian TR2-3A wiring diagram?  These must have existed
originally, yes John?

Rdgs,

Don

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:01 AM John Macartney <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go
> wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were b=
uilt to a
> budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so ma=
ny have.
> Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also prudent to
> comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However,
> it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for =
Italy and
> Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had 12 main
> fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that was used
> on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of plating.
> Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=99=
re planning on a
> new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magneti Marelli used to
> have a subsidiary that made them.
>
> Jonmac
>
> I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3.   Where might =
the other
> be?
> Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, was
> designed to a budget.  These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fuses.  A=
s
> such some items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil.  And those
> things that are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be sized to carry
> the current for everything on that circuit.  But the wires were sized for
> the particular load.  A thinner wire will have a nigher resistance and
> under  short-circuit conditions the current can be limited to a level tha=
t
> will not blow the fuse but the current will cause enough heating to cause
> the insulation to melt.
>
> Another factor against us is the age of the harness.  The connector
> contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances.  Wire
> strands can fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in
> overheating under normal use.  The insulation gets stiff and cracks
> exposing the wires within.  Lots of potential failure modes here.
>
> Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of
> fuses.  Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have
> their own fuses.  This means you can size the fuse more appropriately for
> the wire used to power that device.  Also the connectors used are water
> tight and don't corrode as quickly.  Also, they are, on the whole, a lot
> younger and therefore retain more of their original integrety.
>
> But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness ma=
y
> Dave
> Cc: [email-masked] daily digest <[email-masked]>; FOT
> List <[email-masked]>
> Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash.
> I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section could
> melt.
> Bill B
>
> Serenity Now......
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in =
the looms
> to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?
>
> Trying to answer a question asked of me.
>
> Tom
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked].=
uk
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">As usual, Jonmac&#39;s recollections are gold dust.=C2=A0 =
I hoard every scrap!=C2=A0 (Thanks for &#39;em, John!)<div><br></div><div>D=
oes anyone have an Italian TR2-3A wiring diagram?=C2=A0 These must have exi=
sted originally, yes John?</div><div><br></div><div>Rdgs,</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Don</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:01 AM John Macartney &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"auto">I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that=
 can go wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars =
were built to a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as=
 long as so many have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave i=
s also prudent to comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US ma=
rket. However, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, ca=
rs bound for Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy s=
pec cars had 12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the pl=
ating that was used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another f=
orm of plating. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, i=
f you=E2=80=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original =
spec. Magneti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.<div><br></d=
iv><div>Jonmac<br><br><div id=3D"gmail-m_-4421259331991928085AppleMailSigna=
ture" dir=3D"ltr">At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxbridge: =C2=
=A0=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D</div><div>Duke =
of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div><div><br><=
/div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">notakitcar@yahoo.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. =C2=A0 Where mig=
ht the other be?<div>Thx,</div><div>Bill B</div><div>TS30800L<br><br><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 24, 2020, at=
 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car=
 as a whole, was designed to a budget.=C2=A0 These harnesses had three (cou=
nt &#39;em, 3) fuses.=C2=A0 As such some items were unfused like the headla=
mps and the coil.=C2=A0 And those things that are fused shared a fuse so th=
e fuse had to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.=
=C2=A0 But the wires were sized for the particular load.=C2=A0 A thinner wi=
re will have a nigher resistance and under=C2=A0 short-circuit conditions t=
he current can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the cu=
rrent will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></di=
v>

<div><font size=3D"3">Another factor against us is the age of the harness.=
=C2=A0 The connector contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal ci=
rcumstances.=C2=A0 Wire strands can fatigue and break within the insulation=
 again resulting in overheating under normal use.=C2=A0 The insulation gets=
 stiff and cracks exposing the wires within.=C2=A0 Lots of potential failur=
e modes here.=C2=A0 <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Compare this design to those found in modern cars you=
 will see dozens of fuses.=C2=A0 Sure there are a lot more electrical items=
 but most things have their own fuses.=C2=A0 This means you can size the fu=
se more appropriately for the wire used to power that device.=C2=A0 Also th=
e connectors used are water tight and don&#39;t corrode as quickly.=C2=A0 A=
lso, they are, on the whole, a lot younger and therefore retain more of the=
ir original integrety.</font></div>

<div><br>
</div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-d=
own a new harness may be a good investment.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: bill beecher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: Tom Householder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">Triumphs@A=
utox.team.net</a> daily digest &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT List &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
<br>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown b=
ehind the dash.=C2=A0 I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, mo=
st any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On J=
un 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFOver the years I ha=
ve experienced and seen harness melt down in the looms to the tail lights .=
. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"n=
one">Trying to answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">Tom <br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:triump=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.=
team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>=
<br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/p=
ipermail/triumphs" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=
 </a> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Un=
subscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/triumphs/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-4421259331991928085yqtfd43753"><br clear=3D"none"><br c=
lear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><br clea=
r=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.htm=
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Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a> <a shape=3D"r=
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iumphs/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
span>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triump=
[email-masked]</a> **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/=
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ermail/triumphs" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</=
a> =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage=
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mphs/[email-masked]</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></=
div>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumph=
[email-masked]</a> **<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000abefc605a8d72929--

--===============3997216252787050454==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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--===============3997216252787050454==--

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 17:12:15 +0000 (UTC)

--===============0417608215592609075==
	boundary="----=_Part_2199614_1283738627.1593018735259"

------=_Part_2199614_1283738627.1593018735259
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 At some point the factory added an inline fuse for the running lights.=C2=
=A0 I don't know, off hand, when.=C2=A0 I dded one to my 57 TR3 as the rear=
 lamps are vulnerable to damage from other cars and can be shorted out.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
To: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>; [email-masked].=
net <[email-masked]>; [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2020 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs

I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. =C2=A0 Where mig=
ht the other be?Thx,Bill BTS30800L

Serenity Now......

=EF=BB=BF Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car as a whole, =
was designed to a budget.=C2=A0 These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fu=
ses.=C2=A0 As such some items were unfused like the headlamps and the coil.=
=C2=A0 And those things that are fused shared a fuse so the fuse had to be =
sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.=C2=A0 But the wi=
res were sized for the particular load.=C2=A0 A thinner wire will have a ni=
gher resistance and under=C2=A0 short-circuit conditions the current can be=
 limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the current will cause =
enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.
Another factor against us is the age of the harness.=C2=A0 The connector co=
ntacts get corroded and will get hot under normal circumstances.=C2=A0 Wire=
 strands can fatigue and break within the insulation again resulting in ove=
rheating under normal use.=C2=A0 The insulation gets stiff and cracks expos=
ing the wires within.=C2=A0 Lots of potential failure modes here.=C2=A0=20

Compare this design to those found in modern cars you will see dozens of fu=
ses.=C2=A0 Sure there are a lot more electrical items but most things have =
their own fuses.=C2=A0 This means you can size the fuse more appropriately =
for the wire used to power that device.=C2=A0 Also the connectors used are =
water tight and don't corrode as quickly.=C2=A0 Also, they are, on the whol=
e, a lot younger and therefore retain more of their original integrety.
But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness may =
be a good investment.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
To: Tom Householder <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] daily digest <[email-masked]>; FOT Lis=
t <[email-masked]>

Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the dash.=
=C2=A0 I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any section =
could melt.=20
Bill B

Serenity Now......

On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:

=EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in th=
e looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?

Tom=20

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

------=_Part_2199614_1283738627.1593018735259
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">At some point the factory added an inline fuse for t=
he running lights.&nbsp; I don't know, off hand, when.&nbsp; I dded one to =
my 57 TR3 as the rear lamps are vulnerable to damage from other cars and ca=
n be shorted out.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: bill beecher &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: DAVID MASSEY &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; triumphs@autox=
.team.net &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked] &lt;fot@autox=
.team.net&gt;<br>
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2020 9:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv5968925133">
<div>I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. &nbsp; Wher=
e might the other be?
<div>Thx,</div>

<div>Bill B</div>

<div>TS30800L<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div>

<div class=3D"yiv5968925133yqt4612420086" id=3D"yiv5968925133yqt10693">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASS=
EY &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><=
/div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">

<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car=
 as a whole, was designed to a budget.&nbsp; These harnesses had three (cou=
nt 'em, 3) fuses.&nbsp; As such some items were unfused like the headlamps =
and the coil.&nbsp; And those things that are fused shared a fuse so the fu=
se had to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.&nbs=
p; But the wires were sized for the particular load.&nbsp; A thinner wire w=
ill have a nigher resistance and under&nbsp; short-circuit conditions the c=
urrent can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the curren=
t will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Another factor against us is the age of the harness.&=
nbsp; The connector contacts get corroded and will get hot under normal cir=
cumstances.&nbsp; Wire strands can fatigue and break within the insulation =
again resulting in overheating under normal use.&nbsp; The insulation gets =
stiff and cracks exposing the wires within.&nbsp; Lots of potential failure=
 modes here.&nbsp; <br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Compare this design to those found in modern cars you=
 will see dozens of fuses.&nbsp; Sure there are a lot more electrical items=
 but most things have their own fuses.&nbsp; This means you can size the fu=
se more appropriately for the wire used to power that device.&nbsp; Also th=
e connectors used are water tight and don't corrode as quickly.&nbsp; Also,=
 they are, on the whole, a lot younger and therefore retain more of their o=
riginal integrety.</font></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-d=
own a new harness may be a good investment.</font><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both;"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: bill beecher &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Tom Householder &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: [email-masked] daily digest &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; F=
OT List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown b=
ehind the dash.&nbsp; I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, mo=
st any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On J=
un 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"r=
ect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br cl=
ear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced =
and seen harness melt down in the looms to the tail lights .. anyone ever h=
ad an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Trying to =
answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Tom <b=
r clear=3D"none">** <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tr=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">D=
onate: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"n=
one">Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/trium=
phs </a> <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:=
//www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none"><=
br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/nota=
[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/notakitcar=
@yahoo.com</a>

<div class=3D"yiv5968925133yqt6167601069" id=3D"yiv5968925133yqtfd43753"><b=
r clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">** <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" y=
mailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><=
br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.htm=
l</a><br clear=3D"none">Archive: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=
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blank" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>=
<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: <a rel=3D"nofollo=
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riumphs/[email-masked]</a><br clear=3D"none"></div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

------=_Part_2199614_1283738627.1593018735259--

--===============0417608215592609075==
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--===============0417608215592609075==--

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 17:15:15 +0000 (UTC)

--===============4483402537126857727==
	boundary="----=_Part_2186563_935007686.1593018915381"

------=_Part_2186563_935007686.1593018915381
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Interesting.=C2=A0 I wonder if one could order and "Italian" wire harness =
for an "American" car.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
To: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Cc: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>; [email-masked] <triumphs@au=
tox.team.net>; [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs

I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go wrong=
 with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were built to=
 a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so m=
any have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also pruden=
t to comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However=
, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for =
Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had =
12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that wa=
s used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of platin=
g. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=
=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magne=
ti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.
Jonmac

At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:Lord Uxbridge: =C2=A0=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir -=
 I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9DDuke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir =
- so you have!=E2=80=9D

Serenity Now......

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
To: Tom Householder <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] daily digest <[email-masked]>; FOT Lis=
t <[email-masked]>

Serenity Now......

Tom=20

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs =C2=A0http://www.team.net/a=
rchive

[email-masked]

------=_Part_2186563_935007686.1593018915381
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Interesting.&nbsp; I wonder if one could order and "=
Italian" wire harness for an "American" car.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: John Macartney &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: bill beecher &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Cc: DAVID MASSEY &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked] &lt;tr=
[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br=
Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2020 10:52 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv2429413124">
<div>I think Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go =
wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were bui=
lt to a budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as=
 so many have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also p=
rudent to comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. Ho=
wever, it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound=
 for Italy and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars=
 had 12 main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating th=
at was used on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of p=
lating. Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=
=80=99re planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Ma=
gneti Marelli used to have a subsidiary that made them.
<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div>Jonmac<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv2429413124AppleMailSignature">At the Battle of Wa=
terloo, 1815:
<div>Lord Uxbridge: &nbsp;=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=
=E2=80=9D</div>

<div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill beecher =
&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
om" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">notakitcar@yahoo=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>

<div>Bill B</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASS=
EY &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:dave1massey@cs.=
com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: bill beecher &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Tom Householder &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:trhouse@columbu=
s.rr.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br clear=3D"none">
Cc: <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Triumphs@A=
utox.team.net</a> daily digest &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymail=
to=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:triu=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; FOT List &lt;<a rel=
=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r clear=3D"none">
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2020 8:52 am<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">

<div class=3D"yiv2429413124yqt6167601069" id=3D"yiv2429413124yqtfd43753"><b=
riumphs/[email-masked]</a>
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<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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---

From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 20:18:21 -0500

--===============6760977768717867696==

--000000000000f183e805a8de5ef4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jonmac, I'm guessing your recollections of enhanced wiring in Italian and
Swedish Triumphs dates from your time in export sales in the 1960s, yes?
Do you have any ideas what models might have been covered?  Did the
addition of a lot more fused circuits go back as far as the TR2-3A models?

Thx,

Don

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:42 AM Don Hiscock <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Does anyone have an Italian TR2-3A wiring diagram?  These must have
> existed originally, yes John?
>
> Rdgs,
>
> Don
>
>> wrong with old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were =
built to a
>> budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so m=
any have.
>> it=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for=
 Italy and
>> fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that was use=
d
>> Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=
=99re planning on a
>> new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magneti Marelli used t=
o
>> I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3.   Where might=
 the
>> designed to a budget.  These harnesses had three (count 'em, 3) fuses.  =
As
>> the current for everything on that circuit.  But the wires were sized fo=
r
>> under  short-circuit conditions the current can be limited to a level th=
at
>> will not blow the fuse but the current will cause enough heating to caus=
e
>> their own fuses.  This means you can size the fuse more appropriately fo=
r
>> But a fresh works well enough so if you fear a melt-down a new harness
>> may be a good investment.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown behind the
>> dash.  I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, most any secti=
on
>> could melt.
>> =EF=BB=BFOver the years I have experienced and seen harness melt down in=
 the
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=
.uk
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

--000000000000f183e805a8de5ef4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Jonmac, I&#39;m guessing your recollections of enhanced wi=
ring in Italian and Swedish Triumphs dates from your time in export sales i=
n the 1960s, yes?=C2=A0 Do you have any ideas what models might have been c=
overed?=C2=A0 Did the addition of a lot more fused circuits go back as far =
as the TR2-3A models?<div><br></div><div>Thx,</div><div><br></div><div>Don<=
/div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:42 AM Don Hiscock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:don=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">As usual, Jonmac&=
#39;s recollections are gold dust.=C2=A0 I hoard every scrap!=C2=A0 (Thanks=
 for &#39;em, John!)<div><br></div><div>Does anyone have an Italian TR2-3A =
wiring diagram?=C2=A0 These must have existed originally, yes John?</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Rdgs,</div><div><br></div><div>Don</div></div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2=
020 at 11:01 AM John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:John.Macartney@ukpips.=
org.uk" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">I t=
hink Dave Massey is spot on in highlighting the things that can go wrong wi=
th old looms. He=E2=80=99s also correct in saying the cars were built to a =
budget and I=E2=80=99d add they were never built to last as long as so many=
 have. Ten years was the engineered life expectancy. Dave is also prudent t=
o comment on the very limited number of fuses for the US market. However, i=
t=E2=80=99s worth pointing out that in the days of yore, cars bound for Ita=
ly and Sweden had completely different looms. IIRC, Italy spec cars had 12 =
main fuses and Sweden a few less. Sweden also banned the plating that was u=
sed on all hardware and fasteners and insisted on another form of plating. =
Trouble is, I can=E2=80=99t remember what it was now. So, if you=E2=80=99re=
 planning on a new loom, get one made in Italy to original spec. Magneti Ma=
relli used to have a subsidiary that made them.<div><br></div><div>Jonmac<b=
r><br><div id=3D"gmail-m_-7600439952344253050gmail-m_-4421259331991928085Ap=
pleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:<div>Lord Uxb=
ridge: =C2=A0=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=E2=80=9D</div>=
<div>Duke of Wellington: =E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - so you have!=E2=80=9D</div>=
<div><br></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 24 Jun 2020, at 15:52, bill be=
echer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">notakit=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div di=
r=3D"ltr">I counted, I only have two(2) fuses on my =E2=80=9858 TR3. =C2=A0=
 Where might the other be?<div>Thx,</div><div>Bill B</div><div>TS30800L<br>=
<br><div dir=3D"ltr">Serenity Now......</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jun 24=
, 2020, at 9:38 AM, DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Keep in mind that these wire harnesses, like the car=
 as a whole, was designed to a budget.=C2=A0 These harnesses had three (cou=
nt &#39;em, 3) fuses.=C2=A0 As such some items were unfused like the headla=
mps and the coil.=C2=A0 And those things that are fused shared a fuse so th=
e fuse had to be sized to carry the current for everything on that circuit.=
=C2=A0 But the wires were sized for the particular load.=C2=A0 A thinner wi=
re will have a nigher resistance and under=C2=A0 short-circuit conditions t=
he current can be limited to a level that will not blow the fuse but the cu=
rrent will cause enough heating to cause the insulation to melt.</font></di=
v>

<div><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div dir=3D"ltr">Have a friend with a TR6 that had a significant meltdown b=
ehind the dash.=C2=A0 I should think, given the right set of weaknesses, mo=
st any section could melt. <br clear=3D"none">Bill B<br clear=3D"none"><br =
clear=3D"none">Serenity Now......<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">On J=
un 23, 2020, at 4:52 AM, Tom Householder &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">=EF=BB=BFOver the years I ha=
ve experienced and seen harness melt down in the looms to the tail lights .=
. anyone ever had an under dash melt down?<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"n=
one">Trying to answer a question asked of me. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">Tom <br clear=3D"none">** <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:triump=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br clea=
r=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.=
team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>=
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From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 22:20:50 -0600

On 6/24/2020 9:52 AM, John Macartney wrote:
> Sweden also banned the plating that was used on all hardware and 
> fasteners and insisted on another form of plating. Trouble is, I can’t 
> remember what it was now.

My first guess would be zinc chromate, which, even here in the U.S., has 
been declared to be rather environmentally unfriendly.

Cheers, John.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 11:35:33 +0000 (UTC)

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 Since I am an EE type person, I redesigned a portion of the wire harness.=
=C2=A0 All the switched power circuits are powered through a relay (with th=
e sole exception of the coil) and there are 9@ polyfuses ( solid state devi=
ce that acts like a self-resetting fuse) for all of the switched loads.=C2=
=A0 This includes the addition of two convenience outlets (one switched and=
 one unswitched), cruise control and an electric fuel pump.
I also the more common addition of an electric fan and relays for the high =
and low beams.=C2=A0 And these heavy loads disengage whenever the starter i=
s engaged.=C2=A0 A cool trick used on the TR8.

I also know the bane of service people everywhere is undocumented changes.=
=C2=A0 Especially wiring changes.=C2=A0 So, I have also provided a wiring d=
iagram of what I have done (attached).
But then, I wasn't ham-strung by an accounting department.=C2=A0 My hat's o=
ff to the clever designers who did as well as they did given the budget the=
y were given.
Cheers, y'all.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
To: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
Cc: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>; [email-masked] <triumphs@au=

Serenity Now......

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: bill beecher <[email-masked]>
To: Tom Householder <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] daily digest <[email-masked]>; FOT Lis=
t <[email-masked]>

Serenity Now......

Tom=20

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

[email-masked]

------=_Part_2478817_47472720.1593084933374
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Since I am an EE type person, I redesigned a portion=
 of the wire harness.&nbsp; All the switched power circuits are powered thr=
ough a relay (with the sole exception of the coil) and there are 9@ polyfus=
es ( solid state device that acts like a self-resetting fuse) for all of th=
e switched loads.&nbsp; This includes the addition of two convenience outle=
ts (one switched and one unswitched), cruise control and an electric fuel p=
ump.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I also the more common addition of an electric fan an=
d relays for the high and low beams.&nbsp; And these heavy loads disengage =
whenever the starter is engaged.&nbsp; A cool trick used on the TR8.<br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">I also know the bane of service people everywhere is =
undocumented changes.&nbsp; Especially wiring changes.&nbsp; So, I have als=
o provided a wiring diagram of what I have done (attached).</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But then, I wasn't ham-strung by an accounting depart=
ment.&nbsp; My hat's off to the clever designers who did as well as they di=
d given the budget they were given.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Cheers, y'all.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div id=3D"yiv9038989342">

<div>Jonmac<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">
<div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yiv9038989342AppleMailSignature">At the Battle of Wa=
terloo, 1815:
<div>Lord Uxbridge: &nbsp;=E2=80=9CBy God, Sir - I=E2=80=99ve lost my leg=
=E2=80=9D</div>

<div>Bill B</div>

<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9038989342yqt6167601069" id=3D"yiv9038989342yqtfd43753"><b=
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pan>** <a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.=
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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 23:25:13 -0500

--===============5466966548470974090==

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I might have thought cadmium too, Michael.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:22 PM Michael Porter <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > fasteners and insisted on another form of plating. Trouble is, I can=E2=
=80=99t
> been declared to be rather environmentally unfriendly.

--00000000000041bcc305a8e0fb31
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I might have thought cadmium too, Michael.</div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, =
2020 at 11:22 PM Michael Porter &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mdp=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex">On 6/24/2020 9:52 AM, John Macartney wrote:<br>
&gt; Sweden also banned the plating that was used on all hardware and <br>
&gt; fasteners and insisted on another form of plating. Trouble is, I can=
=E2=80=99t <br>
&gt; remember what it was now.<br>
<br>
My first guess would be zinc chromate, which, even here in the U.S., has <b=
r>
been declared to be rather environmentally unfriendly.<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers, John.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
<br>
Michael Porter<br>
Roswell, NM<br>
<br>
<br>
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it&#39;s within walking dist=
ance....<br>
<br>
<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@au=
tox.team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 22:32:00 -0600

> I might have thought cadmium too, Michael.
A better guess than mine, actually, since cad plate was in very common 
use and produces toxic fumes when heated.  And while zinc chromate was 
available, it was more expensive, so, cadmium plating would be a prime 
candidate.

Good catch.

Cheers.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

---

From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 07:33:41 +0100

That’s it, cadmium was banned. But what did they use as an alternative? Sorry, memory banks voided!

Don’s query about whether the different looms applied to sidescreen TR? Possibly. Sweden changed its rule of the road from rhs to LHD in about 1963. However, several years before that change, vehicles to meet the new standard were being shipped there and their specifications often included future planned features effective from a future date. As an example, hazard warning flashers were mandatory as Federal spec from 1968 or 69 for the US. Several other countries were planning to make these a legal requirement at later dates but it made sense to line fit them to all cars regardless. Perhaps if Bror Hultgren Triumph Club of Sweden is still on this list he can provide an answer?

Jonmac

At the Battle of Waterloo, 1815:
Lord Uxbridge:  “By God, Sir - I’ve lost my leg”
Duke of Wellington: “By God, Sir - so you have!”

> On 25 Jun 2020, at 05:32, Michael Porter <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> A better guess than mine, actually, since cad plate was in very common use and produces toxic fumes when heated.  And while zinc chromate was available, it was more expensive, so, cadmium plating would be a prime candidate.
> 
> Good catch.
> 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Michael Porter
> Roswell, NM
> 
>

---

From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 06:33:58 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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--------------20DADAE79193BC266BF9E86B
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On 6/25/2020 5:35 AM, DAVID MASSEY wrote:
>
>
> But then, I wasn't ham-strung by an accounting department.  My hat's 
> off to the clever designers who did as well as they did given the 
> budget they were given.
>
Cost is always an issue, but reliability should count, especially for 
those driving the cars regularly.  Those desperate to maintain 
originality, well, yeah, I understand that motive, but, really, the 
improvements over the decades for just connectors and terminals is 
dramatic.  Deutsch connectors are advertised as resisting moisture 
intrusion even when submerged in four feet of water for an hour.  One of 
the weak spots in the original harnesses were the bulkhead fittings.  
Eventually those will leak in very wet conditions, but, waterproof 
bulkhead connectors are now available from a variety of manufacturers, 
and make an excellent modification everywhere that the harness passes 
through a panel fitted with a grommet.

Tradition is fine, but old methods encourage old problems.  I still 
recall Jaguar proudly announcing that its pre-prototype XJ220 had been 
completely wired to (older) aircraft standards, only to watch an 
electrical fire burn the car to the ground in the pits.

It doesn't take much for an electrical problem to reduce a vehicle to 
junk.  At the bus company, we contracted someone to make a flasher for 
us that met the specs of the infamous Chicago Transit Authority, and the 
goddamned thing overheated and burned I don't how many buses to the 
ground.  The one I had to strip and repair after an interior fire was 
gutted right down to the floorboards, and the only thing that protected 
the floorboards from catching fire was melted linoleum flooring....

Cheers.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

--------------20DADAE79193BC266BF9E86B
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/25/2020 5:35 AM, DAVID MASSEY
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div style="color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br>
        <div><font size="3"><br>
          </font></div>
        <div><font size="3">But then, I wasn't ham-strung by an
            accounting department.  My hat's off to the clever designers
            who did as well as they did given the budget they were
            given.</font></div>
        <div><font size="3"><br>
          </font></div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Cost is always an issue, but reliability should count, especially
      for those driving the cars regularly.  Those desperate to maintain
      originality, well, yeah, I understand that motive, but, really,
      the improvements over the decades for just connectors and
      terminals is dramatic.  Deutsch connectors are advertised as
      resisting moisture intrusion even when submerged in four feet of
      water for an hour.  One of the weak spots in the original
      harnesses were the bulkhead fittings.  Eventually those will leak
      in very wet conditions, but, waterproof bulkhead connectors are
      now available from a variety of manufacturers, and make an
      excellent modification everywhere that the harness passes through
      a panel fitted with a grommet.</p>
    <p>Tradition is fine, but old methods encourage old problems.  I
      still recall Jaguar proudly announcing that its pre-prototype
      XJ220 had been completely wired to (older) aircraft standards,
      only to watch an electrical fire burn the car to the ground in the
      pits.</p>
    <p>It doesn't take much for an electrical problem to reduce a
      vehicle to junk.  At the bus company, we contracted someone to
      make a flasher for us that met the specs of the infamous Chicago
      Transit Authority, and the goddamned thing overheated and burned I
      don't how many buses to the ground.  The one I had to strip and
      repair after an interior fire was gutted right down to the
      floorboards, and the only thing that protected the floorboards
      from catching fire was melted linoleum flooring....</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers.<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....</pre>
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---

From: "Keith Stewart" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 14:23:54 -0400

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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	charset="UTF-8"
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DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>  wrote:

=20

I also know the bane of service people everywhere is undocumented =
changes.  Especially wiring changes.  So, I have also provided a wiring =
diagram of what I have done (attached).

++++++++++

Does that Crane XR700 connect by Bluetooth or is it just attached to the =
inner fender with no electrical connections? =F0=9F=98=8A

=20

=20

Keith Stewart

[email-masked]

=20

=20

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xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta =
name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered =
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>DAVID MASSEY =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; =C2=A0wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
also know the bane of service people everywhere is undocumented =
changes.&nbsp; Especially wiring changes.&nbsp; So, I have also provided =
a wiring diagram of what I have done (attached).</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>++++++++++<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Does that Crane XR700 connect by Bluetooth or is it =
just attached to the inner fender with no electrical connections? <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>&#128522;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Keith =
Stewart<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>[email-masked]<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:23:06 +0000 (UTC)

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	boundary="----=_Part_2714813_175039548.1593120186756"

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 It's magic.
Also, the car apparently=C2=A0 runs fine without spark plugs.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Stewart <[email-masked]>
To: 'DAVID MASSEY' <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]; nota=
[email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 1:23 pm
Subject: RE: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs

#yiv9636592377 #yiv9636592377 -- _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv9636592377 #y=
iv9636592377 p.yiv9636592377MsoNormal, #yiv9636592377 li.yiv9636592377MsoNo=
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0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv9636592377 span.yiv9636=
592377EmailStyle19 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv9636592377=
 .yiv9636592377MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv9636=
592377 div.yiv9636592377WordSection1 {}#yiv9636592377 DAVID MASSEY <dave1ma=
[email-masked]> =C2=A0wrote: =C2=A0I also know the bane of service people ever=
ywhere is undocumented changes.=C2=A0 Especially wiring changes.=C2=A0 So, =
I have also provided a wiring diagram of what I have done (attached).++++++=
++++Does that Crane XR700 connect by Bluetooth or is it just attached to th=
e inner fender with no electrical connections? =F0=9F=98=8A =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ke=
ith [email-masked] =C2=A0 =C2=A0
------=_Part_2714813_175039548.1593120186756
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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">It's magic.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Also, the car apparently&nbsp; runs fine without spar=
k plugs.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Keith Stewart &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: 'DAVID MASSEY' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked]=
; [email-masked]<br>
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]<br>
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 1:23 pm<br>
Subject: RE: [TR] TR2-3 electrical melt downs<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv9636592377"><style>#yiv9636592377 #yiv9636592377 --
=20
 _filtered {}
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0in 0in;">
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377yqt1305672261" id=3D"yiv9636592377yqtfd43423">
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">DAVID MASSEY &lt=
;[email-masked]&gt; &nbsp;wrote:</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;=
font-family:sans-serif;color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377yqt1305672261" id=3D"yiv9636592377yqtfd40410">
<div>
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:sans-serif;color:black;"> &nbsp;</span></div>
</div>
</div>

<div>
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"></div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377yqt1305672261" id=3D"yiv9636592377yqtfd84415"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;">I also k=
now the bane of service people everywhere is undocumented changes.&nbsp; Es=
pecially wiring changes.&nbsp; So, I have also provided a wiring diagram of=
 what I have done (attached).</span></div>
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;"></span>
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal">++++++++++</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal">Does that Crane XR700 connect by Blue=
tooth or is it just attached to the inner fender with no electrical connect=
ions? <span style=3D"font-family:UI sans-serif;">=F0=9F=98=8A</span></div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal">Keith Stewart</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal">[email-masked]</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377yqt1305672261" id=3D"yiv9636592377yqtfd06669"></=
div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377yqt1305672261" id=3D"yiv9636592377yqtfd55677">
<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>

<div class=3D"yiv9636592377MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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