Subject: Re: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump

From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:01:35 -0400

personally I don't even use a gasket anymore.

Layout a piece of wax paper stretched tight and flat, preferably on a 
glass top surface (super flat)

After a REALLY good cleaning of (and flattening etc) of the gasket surface.

Apply a wide, thick bead of silicone to the pan.

Place the pan bead side down on the wax paper. Do not press it down, 
other than to get the bead the fill the width of the pan lip.
I place tooth picks at a tangent across the outer corners to stop the 
weight of the pan from completely squishing out (thinning) the silicon 
bead.  Let it dry. Let it dry WELL!  You can trim off any 'blowout' 
after it dries.

The wax paper will readily peel away, leaving a super flat surface to 
mate to the bottom of the engine block, leaving a semi-permanent 
silicone gasket attached to the pan. Cleanup your bolt holes as needed. 
You won't need to torque down the pan much either to get a good seal.

I've been doing this on my pans as well as rocker covers for years. My 
rocker cover has been off at least 15 times and I've never needed to 
attend to the embedded gasket other than to wipe it down and apply a new 
thin smear of Blue Hylomar before re-installation.

jfft   tmmv

ptegler

On 3/28/2020 8:22 PM, Dean Mericas wrote:
> I’m resealing the engine and transmission on my TR4 after 20 years of reliable service.
>
> Today I had a massive failure installing the sump gasket using Hylotyte Red100 sealant. It seems to have weakened the gasket to the point that it tore around several bolt holes as I torqued the bolts.
>
> Plan B is to thoroughly clean the mating surfaces and use Permatex Ultra Gray, which I’ve generally had good luck with on my Alfa Romeos.
>
> Before I do that, I wanted to see if any of you can recommend other sealants for this purpose. I only want to do it one more time.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dean
> 1965 TR-4
> Sent from my iPad
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

-- 
Paul Tegler
[email-masked]  www.teglerizer.com

** [email-masked] **

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "Alex & Janet Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 06:54:57 -0400

I have used Permatex Ultra Black on a number of occasions and have had good luck. Disassembly of items cemented together with this product can be challenging, though. Maybe I should try the "ultra-gray". I find things work best if you can insert a couple of studs into the larger half of whatever is being assembled so that the attached item goes on straight, without any sideways movement. I have found that large gaskets for tractor transmission castings have gotten really expensive ($50 plus) and then sometimes they either come damaged from shipping, crack & break when being installed, or holes don't line up properly for bolts. As a result, I tend to use the "gasket-in-a-tube" approach more than ever. Sometimes I find it challenging to decide what product to buy - there are so many.

Alex Thomson

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dean Mericas
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 8:23 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump

Thanks. 

Dean
1965 TR-4
Sent from my iPad

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:49:46 -0400

On 3/28/2020 11:01 PM, Paul Tegler wrote:
> bead.?? Let it dry. Let it dry WELL!?? You can trim off any 'blowout' 
> after it dries.
>
> silicone gasket attached to the pan. Cleanup your bolt holes as 
> needed. You won't need to torque down the pan much either to get a 
> good seal.
>
> attend to the embedded gasket other than to wipe it down and apply a 
> new thin smear of Blue Hylomar before re-installation.
>
> jfft???? tmmv
>
> ptegler
>
>
>> I???m resealing the engine and transmission on my TR4 after 20 years of 
>> reliable service.
>>
>> Today I had a massive failure installing the sump gasket using 
>> Hylotyte Red100 sealant. It seems to have weakened the gasket to the 
>> point that it tore around several bolt holes as I torqued the bolts.
>>
>> Plan B is to thoroughly clean the mating surfaces and use Permatex 
>> Ultra Gray, which I???ve generally had good luck with on my Alfa Romeos.
>>
>> Before I do that, I wanted to see if any of you can recommend other 
>> sealants for this purpose. I only want to do it one more time.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dean
>> 1965 TR-4
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:23:39 -0400

--===============8888736995723974787==

--0000000000002a293b05a1fd686e

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 8:22 PM Dean Mericas <[email-masked]> wrote:

>
> Today I had a massive failure installing the sump gasket using Hylotyte
> Red100 sealant. It seems to have weakened the gasket to the point that it
> tore around several bolt holes as I torqued the bolts.
>

This doesn't sound like a sealant problem...  It's made to be a gasket
dressing.  How could it weaken a gasket, especially a stout one like a sump
gasket?

--0000000000002a293b05a1fd686e
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 8:22 PM Dean =
Mericas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Today I had a massive failure installing the sump gasket using Hylotyte Red=
100 sealant. It seems to have weakened the gasket to the point that it tore=
 around several bolt holes as I torqued the bolts. <br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>This doesn&#39;t sound like a sealant problem...=C2=A0 It&#39;=
s made to be a gasket dressing.=C2=A0 How could it weaken a gasket, especia=
lly a stout one like a sump gasket?=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:33:22 +0000 (UTC)

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 I have seen applications of RTV go bad.=C2=A0 One was when it was used in =
place of a proper gasket for the fuel sender on my TR3.=C2=A0 When it was c=
lamped down RTV icicles oozed out into the tank.=C2=A0=C2=A0 One problem is=
 that=C2=A0 I know of  no RTV that is rated for exposure to gasoline but th=
e other problem is there was an RTV-cicle that softened, broke loose and fo=
und its way into the fuel system blocking the flow of fuel resulting in a t=
ow home.=C2=A0 This scenario in an engine crankcase is scary.=C2=A0 Creatin=
g a lubrication blockage can result in bearing failure.
None-the-less, I use the Blue stuff on waterpumps and other cooling system =
parts as just about any RTV has no issues with water.=C2=A0 But I use a tri=
ck I once read many years ago where I loosely assemble the parts taking up =
any slack but leaving the bolts or nuts snug but not tight so as to not for=
ce the sealant to flow.=C2=A0 Then I wait 15 - 30 minutes to allow the RTV =
to start to set.=C2=A0 Once it is partially set it will not flow and the pa=
rt can be torqued down without fear of RTV-cicles.
If you are going to use Ultra Gray, which looks like an excellent choice fo=
r this application, I recommend this technique.
=C2=A0But I prefer to use Form-A-Gasket #2 on one side of the gasket to mor=
e or less permanently adhere it to once surface and , like Tim, Hylomar on =
the other surface to allow for easy removal down the line.
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex & Janet Thomson <[email-masked]>
To: 'Dean Mericas' <[email-masked]>; triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Mar 29, 2020 5:56 am
Subject: Re: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump

I have used Permatex Ultra Black on a number of occasions and have had good=
 luck. Disassembly of items cemented together with this product can be chal=
lenging, though. Maybe I should try the "ultra-gray". I find things work be=
st if you can insert a couple of studs into the larger half of whatever is =
being assembled so that the attached item goes on straight, without any sid=
eways movement. I have found that large gaskets for tractor transmission ca=
stings have gotten really expensive ($50 plus) and then sometimes they eith=
er come damaged from shipping, crack & break when being installed, or holes=
 don't line up properly for bolts. As a result, I tend to use the "gasket-i=
n-a-tube" approach more than ever. Sometimes I find it challenging to decid=
e what product to buy - there are so many.

Alex Thomson

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dean M=
ericas
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 8:23 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump

I=E2=80=99m resealing the engine and transmission on my TR4 after 20 years =
of reliable service.=20

Today I had a massive failure installing the sump gasket using Hylotyte Red=
100 sealant. It seems to have weakened the gasket to the point that it tore=
 around several bolt holes as I torqued the bolts.=20

Plan B is to thoroughly clean the mating surfaces and use Permatex Ultra Gr=
ay, which I=E2=80=99ve generally had good luck with on my Alfa Romeos.=20

Before I do that, I wanted to see if any of you can recommend other sealant=
s for this purpose. I only want to do it one more time.=20

Thanks.=20

Dean
1965 TR-4
Sent from my iPad
*
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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">I have seen applications of RTV go bad.&nbsp; One wa=
s when it was used in place of a proper gasket for the fuel sender on my TR=
3.&nbsp; When it was clamped down RTV icicles oozed out into the tank.&nbsp=
;&nbsp; One problem is that&nbsp;</font><font size=3D"3"><font size=3D"3"> =
I know of </font> no RTV that is rated for exposure to gasoline but the oth=
er problem is there was an RTV-cicle that softened, broke loose and found i=
ts way into the fuel system blocking the flow of fuel resulting in a tow ho=
me.&nbsp; This scenario in an engine crankcase is scary.&nbsp; Creating a l=
ubrication blockage can result in bearing failure.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">None-the-less, I use the Blue stuff on waterpumps and=
 other cooling system parts as just about any RTV has no issues with water.=
&nbsp; But I use a trick I once read many years ago where I loosely assembl=
e the parts taking up any slack but leaving the bolts or nuts snug but not =
tight so as to not force the sealant to flow.&nbsp; Then I wait 15 - 30 min=
utes to allow the RTV to start to set.&nbsp; Once it is partially set it wi=
ll not flow and the part can be torqued down without fear of RTV-cicles.</f=
ont></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">If you are going to use Ultra Gray, which looks like =
an excellent choice for this application, I recommend this technique.</font=
><br>
</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But I prefer to use Form-A-Gasket #2 on one side of t=
he gasket to more or less permanently adhere it to once surface and , like =
Tim, Hylomar on the other surface to allow for easy removal down the line.<=
/font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"></font><br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Alex &amp; Janet Thomson &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: 'Dean Mericas' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; triumphs &lt;triumphs@autox.=
team.net&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Mar 29, 2020 5:56 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump<br>
<br>

<div dir=3D"ltr">I have used Permatex Ultra Black on a number of occasions =
and have had good luck. Disassembly of items cemented together with this pr=
oduct can be challenging, though. Maybe I should try the "ultra-gray". I fi=
nd things work best if you can insert a couple of studs into the larger hal=
f of whatever is being assembled so that the attached item goes on straight=
, without any sideways movement. I have found that large gaskets for tracto=
r transmission castings have gotten really expensive ($50 plus) and then so=
metimes they either come damaged from shipping, crack &amp; break when bein=
g installed, or holes don't line up properly for bolts. As a result, I tend=
 to use the "gasket-in-a-tube" approach more than ever. Sometimes I find it=
 challenging to decide what product to buy - there are so many.<br clear=3D=
"none"><br clear=3D"none">Alex Thomson<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"=
>-----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">From: Triumphs [mailto:<a sha=
pe=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noope=
ner noreferrer" removedlink__616cfe6c-361a-45d9-9284-ea4fae11a56e__href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=
] On Behalf Of Dean Mericas<br clear=3D"none">Sent: Saturday, March 28, 202=
0 8:23 PM<br clear=3D"none">To: <a shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:triumph=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" removedlink__616cfe6c-361a-45=
d9-9284-ea4fae11a56e__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumphs@auto=
x.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">Subject: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump<br c=
lear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">I=E2=80=99m resealing the engine and trans=
mission on my TR4 after 20 years of reliable service. <br clear=3D"none"><b=
r clear=3D"none">Today I had a massive failure installing the sump gasket u=
sing Hylotyte Red100 sealant. It seems to have weakened the gasket to the p=
oint that it tore around several bolt holes as I torqued the bolts. <br cle=
ar=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Plan B is to thoroughly clean the mating sur=
faces and use Permatex Ultra Gray, which I=E2=80=99ve generally had good lu=
ck with on my Alfa Romeos. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Before I d=
o that, I wanted to see if any of you can recommend other sealants for this=
 purpose. I only want to do it one more time. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">Thanks. <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Dean<br clear=3D"no=
ne">1965 TR-4<br clear=3D"none">Sent from my iPad<br clear=3D"none">*</div>
</div>
</div>

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From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:06:23 -0600

I've not turned a wrench for quite some time, so not sure of the stuff I 
will recommend is still made or has been replaced by newer 
formulations.  I started using Permatex The Right Stuff as sump and 
valve cover 'gaskets' that sealed well and were reusable.

First off, spend some time making sure the block mating surface is 
FLAT.  Usually people overtighten the pan bolts, and the flange warps 
around the bolt hole, leaving little dimples like   ___/ \___   I use an 
auto body hammer to tap these down, hitting against a piece of steel rod 
with a flat end. Easy enough to make one of a proper size if you have a 
lathe in your garage and know how to use it.  Otherwise a file taken to 
the end of an appropriate sized bolt will suffice as a suitable anvil.  
An awkward and time consuming procedure, but if done right it only needs 
to be done once during the time you own the car.  And don't overtighten 
the bolts!  This is a case where more is NOT better. If it leaks and you 
tighten the bolts more it will leak even worse.

Once the mating surface is flat and clean, do as Paul T. described with 
the appropriate goo.

mjb.

---

From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 09:36:32 -0400 (EDT)

Ditto on Mark's cure for dimpled pan holes.  Only would add that I used a small ball peen hammer on the side with the rib and another hammer on the other side.  Tapped gently but firmly.  

Also ditto on The Right Stuff.  Used it for my TR3 rebuilds and this month for a tractor rebuild.  Works great.

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A
New Hampshire

> On March 29, 2020 at 9:06 AM Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "Tim Hutchisen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2020 07:43:23 -0400

Sorry Dean,
I replied to another post by mistake. Not enough coffee yet this morning and my fingers are not up to working speed.

 I have used Hylomar M many times for oil sump gaskets. I have tried a lot of other products but found that Mylomar M is the best for a good seal and the ability to disassemble further down the road. 
Tim Hutchisen
Penn Ridge Motors
Norway, ME 

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dean Mericas
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 8:23 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] Gasket sealant for sump

Thanks. 

Dean
1965 TR-4
Sent from my iPad