Subject: Re: [TR] distributor advance

From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 20:37:30 -0500

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you've got some other issue going on.

A stiffer spring would have not allowed the weights to swing out as far 
at lower rpms. It would NOT ADD idle advance over the original 
settings.�� If anything...your original timing setting might have been 
now retarded as the new springs would have held the weights in longer up 
the rpm band, and possible at idle� (new springs= no/less centripetal 
advance at idle).

If your timing is bouncing around or erractic...have to bothered to 
check the end float of your cam driven dist drive gear?� IIRC, something 
like 0.04" of uncontrolled float can create +/- 5 degrees of timing 
jitter.� You stack (or remove) shims under the dist pedistal to correct 
the end float.

ptegler

On 3/1/2020 2:39 PM, Peter Arakelian wrote:
>
> > Wouldn't stiffer springs give you less advance at idle and, hence, 
> more advance at speed?<
>
> That was my initial thought, too.� However, the way the system appears 
> to work is that the weights pull out no matter which spring is used.� 
> The springs determine how much of that pull is transferred to the 
> distributor�s advance.�� A stiffer spring will follow the pull of the 
> weight more closely giving you advance sooner.� This was also borne 
> out by what actually occurred. When I put the stiffer springs in the 
> idle timing advanced by 10-15 degrees.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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-- 
Paul Tegler
[email-masked]  www.teglerizer.com

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    <p>you've got some other issue going on.</p>
    <p>A stiffer spring would have not allowed the weights to swing out
      as far at lower rpms. It would NOT ADD idle advance over the
      original settings.�� If anything...your original timing setting
      might have been now retarded as the new springs would have held
      the weights in longer up the rpm band, and possible at idle� (new
      springs= no/less centripetal advance at idle).</p>
    <p>If your timing is bouncing around or erractic...have to bothered
      to check the end float of your cam driven dist drive gear?� IIRC,
      something like 0.04" of uncontrolled float can create +/- 5
      degrees of timing jitter.� You stack (or remove) shims under the
      dist pedistal to correct the end float.</p>
    <p>ptegler<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/1/2020 2:39 PM, Peter Arakelian
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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        <p class="MsoNormal">&gt; Wouldn't stiffer springs give you less
          advance at idle and, hence, more advance at speed?&lt;<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>�</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">That was my initial thought, too.� However,
          the way the system appears to work is that the weights pull
          out no matter which spring is used.� The springs determine how
          much of that pull is transferred to the distributor�s
          advance.�� A stiffer spring will follow the pull of the weight
          more closely giving you advance sooner.� This was also borne
          out by what actually occurred. When I put the stiffer springs
          in the idle timing advanced by 10-15 degrees.<br>
          <br>
        </p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>�</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a
            href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
            moz-do-not-send="true">
            Mail</a> for Windows 10</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>�</o:p></p>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **

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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Paul Tegler
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.teglerizer.com">www.teglerizer.com</a></pre>
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---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 12:19:00 +0000 (UTC)

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 I may be wrong here but I thought the springs resisted the pull from the w=
eights and stiffer springs would make the advance come on more slowly.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Arakelian <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sun, Mar 1, 2020 1:39 pm
Subject: [TR] distributor advance

 &lt;!-- #yiv3074945309 _filtered {} _filtered {} #yiv3074945309 #yiv307494=
5309 p.yiv3074945309MsoNormal, #yiv3074945309 li.yiv3074945309MsoNormal, #y=
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nderline;} #yiv3074945309 .yiv3074945309MsoChpDefault {} _filtered {} #yiv3=
074945309 div.yiv3074945309WordSection1 {} --&gt;> Wouldn't stiffer springs=
 give you less advance at idle and, hence, more advance at speed?<  =C2=A0 =
That was my initial thought, too.=C2=A0 However, the way the system appears=
 to work is that the weights pull out no matter which spring is used.=C2=A0=
 The springs determine how much of that pull is transferred to the distribu=
tor=E2=80=99s advance.=C2=A0=C2=A0 A stiffer spring will follow the pull of=
 the weight more closely giving you advance sooner.=C2=A0 This was also bor=
ne out by what actually occurred. When I put the stiffer springs in the idl=
e timing advanced by 10-15 degrees.

 =C2=A0 Sent from Mail for Windows 10 =C2=A0 ** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">I may be wrong here but I thought the springs resist=
ed the pull from the weights and stiffer springs would make the advance com=
e on more slowly.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Peter Arakelian &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Mar 1, 2020 1:39 pm<br>
Subject: [TR] distributor advance<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv3074945309">

=20
=20
<style>&lt;!-- #yiv3074945309    _filtered {}  _filtered {} #yiv3074945309 =
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soNormal, #yiv3074945309 div.yiv3074945309MsoNormal  {margin:0in;margin-bot=
tom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;} #yiv307494=
5309 a:link, #yiv3074945309 span.yiv3074945309MsoHyperlink  {color:blue;tex=
t-decoration:underline;} #yiv3074945309 .yiv3074945309MsoChpDefault  {}  _f=
iltered {} #yiv3074945309 div.yiv3074945309WordSection1  {} --&gt;</style>

<div>

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309WordSection1">

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309MsoNormal">&gt; Wouldn't stiffer springs give yo=
u less advance at idle and, hence, more advance at speed?&lt;</div>
=20

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>
=20

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309MsoNormal">That was my initial thought, too.&nbs=
p; However, the way the system appears to work is that the weights pull out=
 no matter which spring is used.&nbsp; The springs determine how much of th=
at pull is transferred to the distributor=E2=80=99s advance.&nbsp;&nbsp; A =
stiffer
 spring will follow the pull of the weight more closely giving you advance =
sooner.&nbsp; This was also borne out by what actually occurred. When I put=
 the stiffer springs in the idle timing advanced by 10-15 degrees.<br>

<br>

</div>

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>
=20

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309MsoNormal">Sent from <a rel=3D"noopener noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank" removedlink__5efa115d-deec-4a3b-afb2-45c6cfceb61c__hr=
ef=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">
Mail</a> for Windows 10</div>

<div class=3D"yiv3074945309MsoNormal"> &nbsp;</div>
=20
</div>

</div>

</div>
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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 08:14:39 -0500

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As I understand it, you are correct.  As the weight swings outward, the
advance increases.  Heavier springs or lighter weights delays the advance;
lighter springs or heavier weights speeds up the advance.

But...

The springs are sometimes loosely mounted (especially in emission-control
distributors?) such that the weight can swing out a tiny bit without being
affected by the spring at all.  Thus, a distributor that holds timing after
TDC at idle can quickly jump ahead a few degrees when the throttle is
cracked open, advancing to before TDC.  The advance curve can then operate
"normally" as the throttle opening (and RPM) increase.  Sometimes you see
two different weights and/or two different springs to cause specific
effects on timing throughout the RPM range.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 1:56 AM DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I may be wrong here but I thought the springs resisted the pull from the
> weights and stiffer springs would make the advance come on more slowly.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> > Wouldn't stiffer springs give you less advance at idle and, hence, more
> advance at speed?<
>
> That was my initial thought, too.  However, the way the system appears to
> work is that the weights pull out no matter which spring is used.  The
> springs determine how much of that pull is transferred to the distributor=
=E2=80=99s
> advance.   A stiffer spring will follow the pull of the weight more close=
ly
> giving you advance sooner.  This was also borne out by what actually
> occurred. When I put the stiffer springs in the idle timing advanced by
> 10-15 degrees.
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">As I understand it, you are correct.=C2=A0 As the weight s=
wings outward, the advance increases.=C2=A0 Heavier springs or lighter weig=
hts delays the advance; lighter springs or heavier weights speeds up the ad=
vance.<div><br></div><div>But...</div><div><br></div><div>The springs are s=
ometimes loosely mounted (especially in emission-control distributors?) suc=
h that the weight can swing out a tiny bit without being affected by the sp=
ring at all.=C2=A0 Thus, a distributor that holds timing after TDC at idle =
can quickly jump ahead a few degrees when the throttle=C2=A0is cracked open=
, advancing to before TDC.=C2=A0 The advance curve can then operate &quot;n=
ormally&quot; as the throttle opening (and RPM) increase.=C2=A0 Sometimes y=
ou see two different weights and/or two different springs to cause specific=
 effects on timing throughout the RPM range.</div><div><br></div><div>Jeff =
Scarbrough</div><div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 1:56 =
AM DAVID MASSEY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
<div style=3D"color:black;font:12pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div> <font size=3D"3">I may be wrong here but I thought the springs resist=
ed the pull from the weights and stiffer springs would make the advance com=
e on more slowly.</font><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Peter Arakelian &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@a=
utox.team.net</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Sun, Mar 1, 2020 1:39 pm<br>
Subject: [TR] distributor advance<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3805619340423951420yiv3074945309">

=20
=20

<div>

<div>

<div>&gt; Wouldn&#39;t stiffer springs give you less advance at idle and, h=
ence, more advance at speed?&lt;</div>
=20

<div> =C2=A0</div>
=20

<div>That was my initial thought, too.=C2=A0 However, the way the system ap=
pears to work is that the weights pull out no matter which spring is used.=
=C2=A0 The springs determine how much of that pull is transferred to the di=
stributor=E2=80=99s advance.=C2=A0=C2=A0 A stiffer
 spring will follow the pull of the weight more closely giving you advance =
sooner.=C2=A0 This was also borne out by what actually occurred. When I put=
 the stiffer springs in the idle timing advanced by 10-15 degrees.<br>

<br>

</div>

<div> =C2=A0</div>
=20

<div>Sent from <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">
Mail</a> for Windows 10</div>

<div> =C2=A0</div>
=20
</div>

</div>

</div>
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