Subject: [TR] Experience with Vitesse 5-speed transmission conversion?

From: Dean Mericas <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:54:49 -0600

I see that Moss now carries an a 5-speed transmission conversion that appears to use Miata internals in a custom case and bell housing. It isn’t cheap, but as an apparent drop in replacement I think the installed cost may be about the same as the Toyota-based HVDA kit.

Does anyone on the list have first hand experience with this particular conversion?

Thanks. 

Dean Mericas
1965 TR4
Austin, TX
** [email-masked] **

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From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 18:59:15 -0500

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Ah that makes sense that top gear would be Overdrive. I was hoping for a hig=
her OD ratio. =20

The stock OD is 22% (I.e. 0.78). Slightly better than 0.81 if you have the t=
orque for it.  My TR4A has a nice torque-y engine and I am pretty sure it wo=
uld be quite happy at 0.75 and maybe even a lower ratio than that.  So, for $=
4K I think, personally,  I would have my tranny rebuilt and retrofitted with=
 the electric OD

-Tony

Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytical Engine

> On Jan 2, 2020, at 3:26 PM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <deruiterville@hotm=
ail.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Not sure there is any real world TR experience yet, this is a very new dev=
elopment - only installed on the MG side so far from what I gather.
>=20
> Here is the website to the UK manufacturer:
> https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/
>=20
> Here are the gear ratios they quote on one of their TR pages:
>=20
> The Mazda MX-5 gearbox perfectly compliments a wide range of classic vehic=
les, offering a great set of ratios that allow for near-optimal power usage.=
=20
>=20
> Gear	Ratio - Mazda Transmission=20
> 1	3.136
> 2	1.888
> 3	1.330
> 4	1.000
> 5	0.814
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Cheers,
> Randy DeRuiter
>=20
> Does anyone know the gear ratios?  The Moss description does not indicate t=
he ratios. =20
>=20
> -Tony
>=20
> S** [email-masked] **
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/deruite=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Ah that makes sense that top gear would be O=
verdrive. I was hoping for a higher OD ratio. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div>The s=
tock OD is 22% (I.e. 0.78). Slightly better than 0.81 if you have the torque=
 for it. &nbsp;My TR4A has a nice torque-y engine and I am pretty sure it wo=
uld be quite happy at 0.75 and maybe even a lower ratio than that. &nbsp;So,=
 for $4K I think, personally, &nbsp;I would have my tranny rebuilt and retro=
fitted with the electric OD</div><div><br></div><div>-Tony</div><div><br><di=
v><div><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytical Engine</div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 2, 2020, at 3:26 PM, R=
andy and Valerie DeRuiter &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></=
blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1=
">

<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Not sure there is any real world TR experience yet, this is a very new devel=
opment - only installed on the MG side so far from what I gather.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Here is the website to the UK manufacturer:</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<a href=3D"https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/" id=3D"LPNoLP562260">https://www.vit=
esse-ltd.com/</a><br>
</div>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<p style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; margin-top: 1rem; margin-bottom: 1rem; c=
olor: rgb(76, 81, 84); font-family: &quot;Libre Franklin&quot;, sans-serif; b=
ackground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)">
Here are the gear ratios they quote on one of their TR pages:</p>
<div style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; margin-top: 16px; margin-bottom: 16px;=
 color: rgb(76, 81, 84); font-family: &quot;Libre Franklin&quot;, sans-serif=
; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">
<p style=3D"margin-top: 1rem; margin-bottom: 1rem; text-size-adjust: none; c=
olor: rgb(76, 81, 84); font-family: &quot;Libre Franklin&quot;, sans-serif; b=
ackground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)">
The Mazda MX-5 gearbox perfectly compliments a wide range of classic vehicle=
s, offering a great set of ratios that allow for near-optimal power usage.&n=
bsp;</p>
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"font-family: &quot;Libre Franklin&quot;, sans=
-serif; text-size-adjust: none; color: rgb(76, 81, 84); background-color: rg=
b(255, 255, 255)">
<tbody style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<tr style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center"><strong style=3D"te=
xt-size-adjust: none; font-weight: 700">Gear</strong></td>
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center"><strong style=3D"te=
xt-size-adjust: none; font-weight: 700">Ratio - Mazda Transmission&nbsp;</st=
rong></td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">1</td>
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">3.136</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">2</td>
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">1.888</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">3</td>
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">1.330</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">4</td>
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">1.000</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D"text-size-adjust: none">
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">5</td>
<td style=3D"text-size-adjust: none; text-align: center">0.814</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI=
 Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSys=
temFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; color: rgb(50, 49, 4=
8)">
<div style=3D"margin: 0px"></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 946.672px">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">Cheers,</div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">Randy DeRuiter</div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=

<div class=3D"PlainText">Does anyone know the gear ratios?&nbsp; The Moss de=
scription does not indicate the ratios.&nbsp;
<br>
<br>
-Tony<br>
<br>
S** [email-masked] **<br>
<br>
te.html</a><br>
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</div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 07:39:59 -0500

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Even if the ENGINE may not mind cruising at 4K rpm, I do not.  =20

The Toyota tranny is quoted at 80 MPH at 3K RPM.  I think this correlates wi=
th 5th gear ratio of 0.75.  I would love to have that ratio on the Miata tra=
nsmission. =20

Some trannies have optional gear sets to select your ratios to suit your nee=
ds.  Maybe Miata offers a similar option. =20

> On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:19 PM, Bryan Loy <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I don't know, Tony.  I'm not sure what the ratio numbers are, I do know th=
at that little 4 banger just buzzes on and on, doesn't seem to mind the high=
 reves at all, redlines at 7K, where the TR6 is at 5500, if I'm not mistaken=
.  I really don't think that the TR6 engine would enjoy 4K at 80 mph, but I c=
ould be wrong.  I was once. :-)
> Bryan
>=20
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 6:46 PM Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>> Hmmm. 3K rpm at 60 MPH is about what my 4th gear is on my non-OD tranny. =
   I would have thought that the Miata 5th gear might have been =E2=80=9Cdir=
ect=E2=80=9D, like the TR=E2=80=99s 4th. And 6th would be some sort of overd=
rive.=20
>>=20
>> Without having 20-30% overdrive then there is no great advantage to the M=
iata unit!
>>>> On Jan 2, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Bryan Loy <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>>>>=20
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> As far as gear ratios go, I can't say, numbers wise, but I have an '04 M=
X5 with the 6 speed, and it is low.  6th gear at 60mph, the engine is turnin=
g 3K.   Pretty much 20MPH for every 1K on the tach.=20
>>> Bryan
>>>=20
>>>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:27 PM Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
>>>> It is indeed pricey.  But it appears to be a complete new transmission a=
nd all the required adapter stuff ready to go.  The only way it would be bet=
ter as a conversion is if it retained the original space cylinder.
>>>>=20
>>>> So for a complete new modern (hopefully long life) overdrive transmissi=
on, the price is not terrible.
>>>>=20
>>>> It is likely a better solution than the HVDA because those old Toyota t=
ransmissions may well be =E2=80=9Cused up=E2=80=9D,not just =E2=80=9Cused=E2=
=80=9D. And they are hard to find. =20
>>>>=20
>>>> For me, I found the right Toyota transmission to be as rare as ... as a=
 friend of mine puts it...   as rare as rocking horse manure.   He may not a=
ctually have used the word =E2=80=9Cmanure=E2=80=9D.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> So I like this Miata option!
>>>>=20
>>>> Does anyone know the gear ratios?  The Moss description does not indica=
te the ratios. =20
>>>> > On Jan 2, 2020, at 2:02 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Message: 1
>>>> > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:54:49 -0600
>>>> > From: Dean Mericas <[email-masked]>
>>>> > To: [email-masked]
>>>> > Subject: [TR] Experience with Vitesse 5-speed transmission conversion=
?
>>>> > Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
>>>> > Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=3Dutf-8
>>>> >=20
>>>> > I see that Moss now carries an a 5-speed transmission conversion that=
 appears to use Miata internals in a custom case and bell housing. It isn?t c=
heap, but as an apparent drop in replacement I think the installed cost may b=
e about the same as the Toyota-based HVDA kit.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Does anyone on the list have first hand experience with this particul=
ar conversion?
>>>> > Thanks.=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/ar=
chive
>>>>=20
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/para=
[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Even if the ENGINE may not mind cruising at=
 4K rpm, I do not. &nbsp;&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>The Toyota tranny is quot=
ed at 80 MPH at 3K RPM. &nbsp;I think this correlates with 5th gear ratio of=
 0.75. &nbsp;I would love to have that ratio on the Miata transmission. &nbs=
p;</div><div><br></div><div>Some trannies have optional gear sets to select y=
our ratios to suit your needs. &nbsp;Maybe Miata offers a similar option. &n=
bsp;<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytical Engine</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:19 PM=
, Bryan Loy &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></d=
iv><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">I do=
n't know, Tony.&nbsp; I'm not sure what the ratio numbers are, I do know tha=
t that little 4 banger just&nbsp;buzzes on and on, doesn't seem to mind the h=
igh reves at all, redlines at 7K, where the TR6 is at 5500, if I'm not mista=
ken.&nbsp; I really don't think that the TR6 engine would enjoy 4K at 80 mph=
, but I could&nbsp;be wrong.&nbsp; I was once. :-)<div>Bryan</div></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan=
 2, 2020 at 6:46 PM Anthony Rhodes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-styl=
e:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"aut=
o">Hmmm. 3K rpm at 60 MPH is about what my 4th gear is on my non-OD tranny. &=
nbsp; &nbsp;I would have thought that the Miata 5th gear might have been =E2=
=80=9Cdirect=E2=80=9D, like the TR=E2=80=99s 4th. And 6th would be some sort=
 of overdrive.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Without having 20-30% overdrive then=
 there is no great advantage to the Miata unit!</div><div><br></div><div>-To=
ny<br><div><div><div><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytic=
al Engine</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 2, 2020=
, at 2:40 PM, Bryan Loy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote>=
</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">A=
s far as gear ratios go, I can't say, numbers wise, but I have an '04 MX5 wi=
th the 6 speed, and it is low. &nbsp;6th gear at 60mph, the engine is turnin=
g 3K. &nbsp; Pretty much 20MPH for every 1K on the tach.&nbsp;<div>Bryan</di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"=
>On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:27 PM Anthony Rhodes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spamiam=
@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex">It is indeed pricey.&nbsp; But it appears to be a complete ne=
w transmission and all the required adapter stuff ready to go.&nbsp; The onl=
y way it would be better as a conversion is if it retained the original spac=
e cylinder. <br>
<br>
So for a complete new modern (hopefully long life) overdrive transmission, t=
he price is not terrible.<br>
<br>
It is likely a better solution than the HVDA because those old Toyota transm=
issions may well be =E2=80=9Cused up=E2=80=9D,not just =E2=80=9Cused=E2=80=9D=
. And they are hard to find.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
For me, I found the right Toyota transmission to be as rare as ... as a frie=
nd of mine puts it...&nbsp; &nbsp;as rare as rocking horse manure.&nbsp; &nb=
sp;He may not actually have used the word =E2=80=9Cmanure=E2=80=9D. <br>
<br>
So I like this Miata option!<br>
<br>
Does anyone know the gear ratios?&nbsp; The Moss description does not indica=
te the ratios.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
-Tony<br>
<br>
Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytical Engine<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jan 2, 2020, at 2:02 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Message: 1<br>
&gt; Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:54:49 -0600<br>
&gt; From: Dean Mericas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triump=
[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: [TR] Experience with Vitesse 5-speed transmission conversion?<=
br>
&gt; Message-ID: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:3D51629D-3D80-44B6-9EEF-01C3BD216362@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Content-Type: text/plain;&nbsp; &nbsp; charset=3Dutf-8<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I see that Moss now carries an a 5-speed transmission conversion that a=
ppears to use Miata internals in a custom case and bell housing. It isn?t ch=
eap, but as an apparent drop in replacement I think the installed cost may b=
e about the same as the Toyota-based HVDA kit.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Does anyone on the list have first hand experience with this particular=
 conversion?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks. <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Dean Mericas<br>
&gt; 1965 TR4<br>
&gt; Austin, TX<br>
<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@aut=
ox.team.net</a> **<br>
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t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferre=
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f=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/archive</a><br>
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ox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
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