Subject: [TR] Pain job for 1972 TR6

From: Gene M <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:58:25 +0000

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Over 40 years ago I was researching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an a=
ccident (I still have it).  The car was painted white after someone had spr=
ayed it with candy apple metallic red.  Stripping down paint on body panels=
, the original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.  I had seen o=
ther white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier showed that white wa=
s not an original TR6 color.  The color I went with was Jaguar white.

The shop that painted the car had problems with the paint at the seams betw=
een the panels cracked--they had tried some fillers to fill in gaps.  Turns=
 out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and flex independently b=
ecause they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which do not pull sheet=
 metal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fasteners.  Back t=
hen I was not able to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, i=
ncluding a local hardware store that had been around since the early 1900's=
.

The other thing I found out by bringing in a panel to that hardware store t=
o get fasteners was that WW II veterans recognized that this came from a Br=
itish car because the British would dip their metal parts for everything in=
 vats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather would immediate=
ly rust everything.  That's why original TR panels, including every nook an=
d cranny have the same color paint.  And if you scrape the color coat--no p=
rimer.

I went to a lot of "pick and pull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to find=
 body panels and these square threaded bolts were on all of them.  When I t=
ried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would not cinch=
 the panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried to torqu=
e them down.  If you find a panel where the bolt holes are deformed or you =
don't find paint inside the hole, it probably was put on after a replacemen=
t.

So a black engine compartment was probably sprayed over the original panels=
 because the car is pieced together from panels that didn't have the same o=
riginal color, or maybe it was sprayed with a high temp paint.

The biggest problem with lacquer dipped panels is eventually there will be =
lacquer check.  Spraying stuff on top can hide it for awhile, but eventuall=
y the checking goes through the new sealants and top coats (maybe there are=
 new sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over the last =
40 years, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be availabl=
e as fillers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the lacqu=
er checking, just hide it for awhile.

Anyone remember the debate in the 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and or=
ange peel problems, versus G.M. with its smooth lacquer finish which probab=
ly wouldn't start checking while you still owned the car.

All my info came way before the internet and I didn't look for my old notes=
 when I was trying to keep my 70 TR6 original.  My research showed mine was=
 pieced together and very little was original from the same car, and I neve=
r did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels when yo=
u pull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams.

Anyone else come across these square threaded bolts?

Gene M.
70 TR6
Sacramento, CA

Anyone know if there are urethane paints that can be sprayed over lacquer a=
nd will
<original post>  Hey Jeff. Well, a "paint job" is a very relative conversat=
ion. If the
engine bay is black then it's been repainted - someone correct me if I'm
wrong but Triumph painted the engine bay body color.

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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
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<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">Over 40 years ago I was res=
earching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an accident (I still have it).&=
nbsp; The car was painted white after someone
 had sprayed it with candy apple metallic red.&nbsp; Stripping down paint o=
n body panels, the original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.&=
nbsp; I had seen other white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier sh=
owed that white was not an original TR6 color.&nbsp;
 The color I went with was Jaguar white.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The shop that painted the c=
ar had problems with the paint at the seams between the panels cracked--the=
y had tried some fillers to fill in
 gaps.&nbsp; Turns out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and fl=
ex independently because they are held on by &quot;square threaded&quot; bo=
lts, which do not pull sheet metal panels together like modern sheet metal =
screws or fasteners.&nbsp; Back then I was not able
 to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, including a local h=
ardware store that had been around since the early 1900's.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The other thing I found out=
 by bringing in a panel to that hardware store to get fasteners was that WW=
 II veterans recognized that this
 came from a British car because the British would dip their metal parts fo=
r everything in vats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather =
would immediately rust everything.&nbsp; That's why original TR panels, inc=
luding every nook and cranny have the
 same color paint.&nbsp; And if you scrape the color coat--no primer.</span=
></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">I went to a lot of &quot;pi=
ck and pull&quot; auto wreckers in the 70's trying to find body panels and =
these square threaded bolts were on all of them.&nbsp;
 When I tried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would =
not cinch the panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried=
 to torque them down.&nbsp; If you find a panel where the bolt holes are de=
formed or you don't find paint inside
 the hole, it probably was put on after a replacement.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">So a black engine compartment wa=
s probably sprayed over the original panels because the car is pieced toget=
her from panels that didn't have the same original color, or maybe it was s=
prayed with a high temp paint.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">The biggest problem with lacquer=
 dipped panels is eventually there will be lacquer check.&nbsp; Spraying st=
uff on top can hide it for awhile, but eventually the checking goes through=
 the new sealants and top coats (maybe
 there are new sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over=
 the last 40 years, but I doubt it since all of the &quot;solids&quot; that=
 used to be available as fillers in paint are gone, and those old ones woul=
d not stop the lacquer checking, just hide
 it for awhile.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone remember the debate in th=
e 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and orange peel problems, versus G.M. =
with its smooth lacquer finish which probably wouldn't start checking while=
 you still owned the car.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">All my info came way before the =
internet and I didn't look for my old notes when I was trying to keep my 70=
 TR6 original.&nbsp; My research showed mine was pieced together and very l=
ittle was original from the same car, and
 I never did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels =
when you pull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams.&nbsp;&nb=
sp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone else come across these sq=
uare threaded bolts?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Gene M.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">70 TR6</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Sacramento, CA</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone know if there are urethan=
e paints that can be sprayed over lacquer and will&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;=
 font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:r=
gb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">&lt;original post&gt;&nbsp; Hey =
Jeff. Well, a &quot;paint job&quot; is a very relative conversation. If the=
</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:r=
gb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">engine bay is black then it's be=
en repainted - someone correct me if I'm</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(32,31=
,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:r=
gb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">wrong but Triumph painted the en=
gine bay body color.<span>&nbsp;</span></span>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"=
<div class=3D"PlainText"><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div>
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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Chad <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 20:02:54 +0000 (UTC)

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 I have never encountered what I would consider a "square" threaded bolt in=
 almost 30 years of working on TR6's.=C2=A0 Maybe that is a descriptor I am=
 unaware of.
Chad in Tulsa.
    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 02:58:58 PM CDT, Gene M <[email-masked]=
et> wrote: =20
=20
  Over 40 years ago I was researching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an=
 accident (I still have it).=C2=A0 The car was painted white after someone =
had sprayed it with candy apple metallic red.=C2=A0 Stripping down paint on=
 body panels, the original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.=
=C2=A0 I had seen other white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier s=
howed that white was not an original TR6 color.=C2=A0 The color I went with=
 was Jaguar white.=C2=A0=C2=A0
The shop that painted the car had problems with the paint at the seams betw=
een the panels cracked--they had tried some fillers to fill in gaps.=C2=A0 =
Turns out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and flex independen=
tly because they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which do not pull =
sheet metal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fasteners.=C2=
=A0 Back then I was not able to locate these square threaded bolts from any=
 source, including a local hardware store that had been around since the ea=
rly 1900's.
The other thing I found out by bringing in a panel to that hardware store t=
o get fasteners was that WW II veterans recognized that this came from a Br=
itish car because the British would dip their metal parts for everything in=
 vats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather would immediate=
ly rust everything.=C2=A0 That's why original TR panels, including every no=
ok and cranny have the same color paint.=C2=A0 And if you scrape the color =
coat--no primer.
I went to a lot of "pick and pull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to find=
 body panels and these square threaded bolts were on all of them.=C2=A0 Whe=
n I tried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would not =
cinch the panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried to =
torque them down.=C2=A0 If you find a panel where the bolt holes are deform=
ed or you don't find paint inside the hole, it probably was put on after a =
replacement.
So a black engine compartment was probably sprayed over the original panels=
 because the car is pieced together from panels that didn't have the same o=
riginal color, or maybe it was sprayed with a high temp paint.
The biggest problem with lacquer dipped panels is eventually there will be =
lacquer check.=C2=A0 Spraying stuff on top can hide it for awhile, but even=
tually the checking goes through the new sealants and top coats (maybe ther=
e are new sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over the =
last 40 years, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be ava=
ilable as fillers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the =
lacquer checking, just hide it for awhile.
Anyone remember the debate in the 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and or=
ange peel problems, versus G.M. with its smooth lacquer finish which probab=
ly wouldn't start checking while you still owned the car.
All my info came way before the internet and I didn't look for my old notes=
 when I was trying to keep my 70 TR6 original.=C2=A0 My research showed min=
e was pieced together and very little was original from the same car, and I=
 never did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels wh=
en you pull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams.=C2=A0=C2=
=A0
Anyone else come across these square threaded bolts?
Gene M.70 TR6Sacramento, CA

Anyone know if there are urethane paints that can be sprayed over lacquer a=
nd will=C2=A0<original post>=C2=A0 Hey Jeff. Well, a "paint job" is a very =
relative conversation. If the
engine bay is black then it's been repainted - someone correct me if I'm
wrong but Triumph painted the engine bay body color.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archiv=
e

[email-masked]
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp23d2f3b5yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div></div>
        <div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I have never encountered what I would consider a "square" threaded bolt in almost 30 years of working on TR6's.&nbsp; Maybe that is a descriptor I am unaware of.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Chad in Tulsa.</div><div><br></div>
        
        </div><div id="ydpb560e11byahoo_quoted_0575156032" class="ydpb560e11byahoo_quoted">
            <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                
                <div>
                    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 02:58:58 PM CDT, Gene M &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id="ydpb560e11byiv5930329868">

<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">Over 40 years ago I was researching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an accident (I still have it).&nbsp; The car was painted white after someone
 had sprayed it with candy apple metallic red.&nbsp; Stripping down paint on body panels, the original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.&nbsp; I had seen other white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier showed that white was not an original TR6 color.&nbsp;
 The color I went with was Jaguar white.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">The shop that painted the car had problems with the paint at the seams between the panels cracked--they had tried some fillers to fill in
 gaps.&nbsp; Turns out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and flex independently because they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which do not pull sheet metal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fasteners.&nbsp; Back then I was not able
 to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, including a local hardware store that had been around since the early 1900's.</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">The other thing I found out by bringing in a panel to that hardware store to get fasteners was that WW II veterans recognized that this
 came from a British car because the British would dip their metal parts for everything in vats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather would immediately rust everything.&nbsp; That's why original TR panels, including every nook and cranny have the
 same color paint.&nbsp; And if you scrape the color coat--no primer.</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">I went to a lot of "pick and pull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to find body panels and these square threaded bolts were on all of them.&nbsp;
 When I tried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would not cinch the panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried to torque them down.&nbsp; If you find a panel where the bolt holes are deformed or you don't find paint inside
 the hole, it probably was put on after a replacement.</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">So a black engine compartment was probably sprayed over the original panels because the car is pieced together from panels that didn't have the same original color, or maybe it was sprayed with a high temp paint.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">The biggest problem with lacquer dipped panels is eventually there will be lacquer check.&nbsp; Spraying stuff on top can hide it for awhile, but eventually the checking goes through the new sealants and top coats (maybe
 there are new sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over the last 40 years, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be available as fillers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the lacquer checking, just hide
 it for awhile.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">Anyone remember the debate in the 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and orange peel problems, versus G.M. with its smooth lacquer finish which probably wouldn't start checking while you still owned the car.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">All my info came way before the internet and I didn't look for my old notes when I was trying to keep my 70 TR6 original.&nbsp; My research showed mine was pieced together and very little was original from the same car, and
 I never did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels when you pull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">Anyone else come across these square threaded bolts?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">Gene M.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">70 TR6</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">Sacramento, CA</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:14.6667px;">Anyone know if there are urethane paints that can be sprayed over lacquer and will&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>
<div id="ydpb560e11byiv5930329868appendonsend" style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);">
</div>
<span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">&lt;original post&gt;&nbsp; Hey Jeff. Well, a "paint job" is a very relative conversation. If the</span><br style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">
<span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">engine bay is black then it's been repainted - someone correct me if I'm</span><br style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">
<span style="color:rgb(32,31,30);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;">wrong but Triumph painted the engine bay body color.<span>&nbsp;</span></span>
<div class="ydpb560e11byiv5930329868BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt;">
<div class="ydpb560e11byiv5930329868PlainText"><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a> <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br></div>
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From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 21:36:30 +0100

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In the ten years I worked at StandardTriumph in Coventry (1965-1975) I would=
 comment as follows:

1. White was always available as an original colour on all models with tan, b=
lack or red trim.

2. All hardware (AFAIR) was either zinc or phosphated, except for Scandinavi=
a which required another plating type which I now forget. On the many occasi=
ons I was on the assembly lines or in the paint shop, at no time do I recall=
 seeing any type of hardware being painted in any body colour before fitment=
.

3. If I=E2=80=99ve read the post correctly, it seems you feel body panels we=
re a sort of pick and mix in any colour before final painting? No way! All b=
odies for all markets and all models came out of the body shop in white unde=
rcoat prior to going through the paint shop in colour batches, with cars in b=
lack being painted only on Friday afternoons. This was intentional as Black w=
as not a popular colour and allowed the spray lines to be flushed through pr=
ior to paint shop cleaning over the weekend.

Hope the foregoing helps to clear doubts and the buildup of myths

Jonmac

Whenever I feel the need for exercise, experience has shown me it is better t=
o lie down until the feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL

> On 7 Oct 2019, at 20:58, Gene M <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
ccident (I still have it).  The car was painted white after someone had spra=
yed it with candy apple metallic red.  Stripping down paint on body panels, t=
he original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.  I had seen other=
 white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier showed that white was not=
 an original TR6 color.  The color I went with was Jaguar white. =20
>=20
> The shop that painted the car had problems with the paint at the seams bet=
ween the panels cracked--they had tried some fillers to fill in gaps.  Turns=
 out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and flex independently be=
cause they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which do not pull sheet m=
etal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fasteners.  Back then=
 I was not able to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, inclu=
ding a local hardware store that had been around since the early 1900's.
> The other thing I found out by bringing in a panel to that hardware store t=
o get fasteners was that WW II veterans recognized that this came from a Bri=
tish car because the British would dip their metal parts for everything in v=
ats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather would immediately r=
ust everything.  That's why original TR panels, including every nook and cra=
nny have the same color paint.  And if you scrape the color coat--no primer.=

>=20
> I went to a lot of "pick and pull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to fin=
d body panels and these square threaded bolts were on all of them.  When I t=
ried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would not cinch t=
he panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried to torque t=
hem down.  If you find a panel where the bolt holes are deformed or you don'=
t find paint inside the hole, it probably was put on after a replacement.
>=20
> So a black engine compartment was probably sprayed over the original panel=
s because the car is pieced together from panels that didn't have the same o=
riginal color, or maybe it was sprayed with a high temp paint.
>=20
> The biggest problem with lacquer dipped panels is eventually there will be=
 lacquer check.  Spraying stuff on top can hide it for awhile, but eventuall=
y the checking goes through the new sealants and top coats (maybe there are n=
ew sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over the last 40 y=
ears, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be available as f=
illers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the lacquer chec=
king, just hide it for awhile.
>=20
> Anyone remember the debate in the 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and o=
range peel problems, versus G.M. with its smooth lacquer finish which probab=
ly wouldn't start checking while you still owned the car.
>=20
> All my info came way before the internet and I didn't look for my old note=
s when I was trying to keep my 70 TR6 original.  My research showed mine was=
 pieced together and very little was original from the same car, and I never=
 did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels when you p=
ull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams. =20
> Anyone know if there are urethane paints that can be sprayed over lacquer a=
nd will=20
> <original post>  Hey Jeff. Well, a "paint job" is a very relative conversa=
tion. If the
> wrong but Triumph painted the engine bay body color.=20
>=20
>=20
> =20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.ma=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-57220877-C709-4243-999C-ACA9B685EF94
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">In the ten years I worked at StandardTriump=
h in Coventry (1965-1975) I would comment as follows:<div><br></div><div>1. W=
hite was always available as an original colour on all models with tan, blac=
k or red trim.</div><div><br></div><div>2. All hardware (AFAIR) was either z=
inc or phosphated, except for Scandinavia which required another plating typ=
e which I now forget. On the many occasions I was on the assembly lines or i=
n the paint shop, at no time do I recall seeing any type of hardware being p=
ainted in any body colour before fitment.</div><div><br></div><div>3. If I=E2=
=80=99ve read the post correctly, it seems you feel body panels were a sort o=
f pick and mix in any colour before final painting? No way! All bodies for a=
ll markets and all models came out of the body shop in white undercoat prior=
 to going through the paint shop in colour batches, with cars in black being=
 painted only on Friday afternoons. This was intentional as Black was not a p=
opular colour and allowed the spray lines to be flushed through prior to pai=
nt shop cleaning over the weekend.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope the foregoi=
ng helps to clear doubts and the buildup of myths</div><div><br></div><div>J=
onmac<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Whenever I feel the n=
eed for exercise, experience has shown me it is better to lie down until the=
 feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 7 Oct 201=
9, at 20:58, Gene M &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mclans@sbcgl=
obal.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">

<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1=
">

<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">Over 40 years ago I was resea=
rching matching paint for my 70 TR6 after an accident (I still have it).&nbs=
p; The car was painted white after someone
 had sprayed it with candy apple metallic red.&nbsp; Stripping down paint on=
 body panels, the original lacquer paint were red, dark green and yellow.&nb=
sp; I had seen other white TR6's but my research at the paint supplier showe=
d that white was not an original TR6 color.&nbsp;
 The color I went with was Jaguar white.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The shop that painted the car=
 had problems with the paint at the seams between the panels cracked--they h=
ad tried some fillers to fill in
 gaps.&nbsp; Turns out the panels pretty much just hang on the frame and fle=
x independently because they are held on by "square threaded" bolts, which d=
o not pull sheet metal panels together like modern sheet metal screws or fas=
teners.&nbsp; Back then I was not able
 to locate these square threaded bolts from any source, including a local ha=
rdware store that had been around since the early 1900's.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The other thing I found out b=
y bringing in a panel to that hardware store to get fasteners was that WW II=
 veterans recognized that this
 came from a British car because the British would dip their metal parts for=
 everything in vats of lacquer paint and air dry them since their weather wo=
uld immediately rust everything.&nbsp; That's why original TR panels, includ=
ing every nook and cranny have the
 same color paint.&nbsp; And if you scrape the color coat--no primer.</span>=
</div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">I went to a lot of "pick and p=
ull" auto wreckers in the 70's trying to find body panels and these square t=
hreaded bolts were on all of them.&nbsp;
 When I tried to connect panels with these original bolts, the bolts would n=
ot cinch the panels together tightly and would quickly fracture if I tried t=
o torque them down.&nbsp; If you find a panel where the bolt holes are defor=
med or you don't find paint inside
 the hole, it probably was put on after a replacement.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">So a black engine compartment was=
 probably sprayed over the original panels because the car is pieced togethe=
r from panels that didn't have the same original color, or maybe it was spra=
yed with a high temp paint.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">The biggest problem with lacquer d=
ipped panels is eventually there will be lacquer check.&nbsp; Spraying stuff=
 on top can hide it for awhile, but eventually the checking goes through the=
 new sealants and top coats (maybe
 there are new sealants that can prevent this that have been developed over t=
he last 40 years, but I doubt it since all of the "solids" that used to be a=
vailable as fillers in paint are gone, and those old ones would not stop the=
 lacquer checking, just hide
 it for awhile.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone remember the debate in the=
 60's on Ford with its enamel paint and orange peel problems, versus G.M. wi=
th its smooth lacquer finish which probably wouldn't start checking while yo=
u still owned the car.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">All my info came way before the i=
nternet and I didn't look for my old notes when I was trying to keep my 70 T=
R6 original.&nbsp; My research showed mine was pieced together and very litt=
le was original from the same car, and
 I never did find a TR6 in the boneyard that had all color matching panels w=
hen you pull panels apart and and look at the color of the seams.&nbsp;&nbsp=
;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone else come across these squ=
are threaded bolts?</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Gene M.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">70 TR6</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Sacramento, CA</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px;">Anyone know if there are urethane=
 paints that can be sprayed over lacquer and will&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; f=
ont-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255); display:inline!important">&lt;original post&gt;&nbsp; Hey Je=
ff. Well, a "paint job" is a very relative conversation. If the</span><br st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,25=
5,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255); display:inline!important">engine bay is black then it's been=
 repainted - someone correct me if I'm</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30=
); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style=3D"color:rgb(32,31,30); font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rg=
b(255,255,255); display:inline!important">wrong but Triumph painted the engi=
ne bay body color.<span>&nbsp;</span></span>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=

</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **</span><=
br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html=
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=
</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archi=
ve</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><=
/span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Gene M <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 21:15:58 +0000

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	boundary="_000_BYAPR07MB51575D149397A296A1AAAE6DBD9B0BYAPR07MB5157namp_"

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Chad,

Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of tapered lik=
e a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off and smooth inste=
ad of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet metal screw.

I need to clean out my garage in the next year or two and I'll post a pic w=
hen I locate these bolts.  I never found a source for these, including The =
Roadster Factory or Moss Motors.  Only this WW II veteran identified it--di=
dn't know where to get it or what it was called.

Have you seen an original  TR6 body panel that had primer next to bare meta=
l?  I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II employee told =
me about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer paint.  This vet tol=
d me during WW II they had these big vats in the barns in rural England and=
 all the metal fabricated parts for everything were dipped and air dried to=
 prevent rust.  These parts would hang there and be available for the war e=
ffort.  He figured maybe after WW II ended, these vats with the lacquer pai=
nt and the malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into what my car =
was made from.

All good since the result was the TR6.

Gene M.
70 TR6
Sacramento, CA
________________________________
From: Chad <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 1:02 PM
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>; Gene M <mclans@sbcgl=
obal.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Pain job for 1972 TR6

I have never encountered what I would consider a "square" threaded bolt in =
almost 30 years of working on TR6's.  Maybe that is a descriptor I am unawa=
re of.

Chad in Tulsa.

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
Chad,</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of tapered lik=
e a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off and smooth inste=
ad of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet metal screw.&nbsp;&nbsp;<=
/div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
I need to clean out my garage in the next year or two and I'll post a pic w=
hen I locate these bolts.&nbsp; I never found a source for these, including=
 The Roadster Factory or Moss Motors.&nbsp; Only this WW II veteran identif=
ied it--didn't know where to get it or what
 it was called.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
Have you seen an original&nbsp; TR6 body panel that had primer next to bare=
 metal?&nbsp; I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II empl=
oyee told me about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer paint.&nbs=
p; This vet told me during WW II they had these
 big vats in the barns in rural England and all the metal fabricated parts =
for everything were dipped and air dried to prevent rust.&nbsp; These parts=
 would hang there and be available for the war effort.&nbsp; He figured may=
be after WW II ended, these vats with the
 lacquer paint and the malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into =
what my car was made from.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
All good since the result was the TR6.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
<span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt=
;">Gene M.</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
70 TR6</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica=
, sans-serif">
Sacramento, CA</div>
</div>
<div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Chad &lt;triumph74tr6=
@yahoo.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 7, 2019 1:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked] &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Gene M =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Pain job for 1972 TR6</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"x_ydp23d2f3b5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica=
 Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I have never encountered what I would consider a &quot;squ=
are&quot; threaded bolt in almost 30 years of working on TR6's.&nbsp; Maybe=
 that is a descriptor I am unaware of.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Chad in Tulsa.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_ydpb560e11byahoo_quoted_0575156032" class=3D"x_ydpb560e11byaho=
o_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font=
-size:13px; color:#26282a">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_ydpb560e11byiv5930329868">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpb560e11byiv5930329868BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt">
<div class=3D"x_ydpb560e11byiv5930329868PlainText"><br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 22:47:10 +0100

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In the 23 odd years I=E2=80=99ve been on this list, I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=
=80=99ve laughed so much at a ww2 veterans observation of manufacturing life=
 in this country during the conflict. Get this. Manufacturing of anything to=
 do with the prosecution of the war in the U.K. was strictly off limits to a=
nyone not directly involved in it. As for farms being involved, all the farm=
s were going flat out doing everything possible to feed the population. Hitl=
ers U Boats nearly starved us out and farms had far more important things to=
 do that paint hardware and let it dry. This poppycock is as way out of the w=
indow as myths I=E2=80=99ve seen in the past on this list that Triumphs were=
 built using whatever happened to be available, or E type Jaguars were built=
 in a factory with rusty metal walls as cladding and earth floors!!

Jonmac

> On 7 Oct 2019, at 22:15, Gene M <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Chad,
>=20
> Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of tapered li=
ke a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off and smooth inste=
ad of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet metal screw. =20
> I need to clean out my garage in the next year or two and I'll post a pic w=
hen I locate these bolts.  I never found a source for these, including The R=
oadster Factory or Moss Motors.  Only this WW II veteran identified it--didn=
't know where to get it or what it was called. =20
>=20
> Have you seen an original  TR6 body panel that had primer next to bare met=
al?  I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II employee told m=
e about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer paint.  This vet told m=
e during WW II they had these big vats in the barns in rural England and all=
 the metal fabricated parts for everything were dipped and air dried to prev=
ent rust.  These parts would hang there and be available for the war effort.=
  He figured maybe after WW II ended, these vats with the lacquer paint and t=
he malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into what my car was made f=
rom. =20
>=20
> All good since the result was the TR6. =20
>=20
> Gene M.
> 70 TR6
> Sacramento, CA
> To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>; Gene M <mclans@sbcg=
lobal.net>
ve
[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">In the 23 odd years I=E2=80=99ve been on th=
is list, I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve laughed so much at a ww2 veteran=
s observation of manufacturing life in this country during the conflict. Get=
 this. Manufacturing of anything to do with the prosecution of the war in th=
e U.K. was strictly off limits to anyone not directly involved in it. As for=
 farms being involved, all the farms were going flat out doing everything po=
ssible to feed the population. Hitlers U Boats nearly starved us out and far=
ms had far more important things to do that paint hardware and let it dry. T=
his poppycock is as way out of the window as myths I=E2=80=99ve seen in the p=
ast on this list that Triumphs were built using whatever happened to be avai=
lable, or E type Jaguars were built in a factory with rusty metal walls as c=
ladding and earth floors!!<div><br></div><div>Jonmac<br><br><div id=3D"Apple=
MailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Whenever I feel the need for exercise, experience=
 has shown me it is better to lie down until the feeling goes away. WINSTON C=
HURCHILL</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 7 Oct 2019, at 22:15, Gene M &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><b=
r></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">

<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; c=
olor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
Chad,</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of tapered like=
 a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off and smooth instead=
 of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet metal screw.&nbsp;&nbsp;</di=
v>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
I need to clean out my garage in the next year or two and I'll post a pic wh=
en I locate these bolts.&nbsp; I never found a source for these, including T=
he Roadster Factory or Moss Motors.&nbsp; Only this WW II veteran identified=
 it--didn't know where to get it or what
 it was called.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
Have you seen an original&nbsp; TR6 body panel that had primer next to bare m=
etal?&nbsp; I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II employe=
e told me about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer paint.&nbsp; T=
his vet told me during WW II they had these
 big vats in the barns in rural England and all the metal fabricated parts f=
or everything were dipped and air dried to prevent rust.&nbsp; These parts w=
ould hang there and be available for the war effort.&nbsp; He figured maybe a=
fter WW II ended, these vats with the
 lacquer paint and the malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into w=
hat my car was made from.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
All good since the result was the TR6.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
<span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
">Gene M.</span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
70 TR6</div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica,=
 sans-serif">
Sacramento, CA</div>
</div>
<div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" col=
or=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Chad &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 7, 2019 1:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
t</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt;; Gene M &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">mclans@sbcgloba=
l.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Pain job for 1972 TR6</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"x_ydp23d2f3b5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica N=
eue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I have never encountered what I would consider a "square" t=
hreaded bolt in almost 30 years of working on TR6's.&nbsp; Maybe that is a d=
escriptor I am unaware of.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Chad in Tulsa.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_ydpb560e11byahoo_quoted_0575156032" class=3D"x_ydpb560e11byahoo=
_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-=
size:13px; color:#26282a">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_ydpb560e11byiv5930329868">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpb560e11byiv5930329868BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt">
<div class=3D"x_ydpb560e11byiv5930329868PlainText"><br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 17:31:08 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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--------------51D2DBEF092333C68E4C1D59
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On 10/7/2019 3:15 PM, Gene M wrote:
> Chad,
>
> Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of 
> tapered like a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off 
> and smooth instead of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet 
> metal screw.

These are not exactly unique.  In the industry, I think they were 
branded as Spirox screws, and are generically known as "christmas tree" 
screws.  They are straight-shank, but have a conical, pointed end, with 
a modified Acme thread.  They're made to be received by a similar nut 
encapsulated in a stamped sheet metal clip.  And they're quite adequate 
for securing sheet metal panels--the panels certainly don't just hang on 
them.  Otherwise, the car--even when new--would be a rolling symphony of 
rattles and creaks and knocks.

>
> Have you seen an original  TR6 body panel that had primer next to bare 
> metal?  I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II 
> employee told me about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer 
> paint.  This vet told me during WW II they had these big vats in the 
> barns in rural England and all the metal fabricated parts for 
> everything were dipped and air dried to prevent rust.  These parts 
> would hang there and be available for the war effort.

> He figured maybe after WW II ended, these vats with the lacquer paint 
> and the malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into what my 
> car was made from.
>
> He's probably pulling your leg (or was an idiot), given that the TR6 
> began life twenty-four years after the end of the war.  Yes, there 
> were probably leftover parts, but they went with the war materiel in 
> other conflicts (the Brits were fighting what they called the "Malay 
> Emergency" beginning in 1948 and also had about ten percent of UN's 
> forces in the Korean War beginning in 1950).  Given the extreme 
> shortages of everything in the UK post-war, the chances were very high 
> that unused steel stampings were resmelted.  I think John McC. can 
> attest to the fact that the bodies of everything made at Coventry were 
> made from virgin sheet metal and not made of leftover Doncaster 
> floorboards.

Cheers.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/7/2019 3:15 PM, Gene M wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      <style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">
          Chad,</div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">
          <br>
        </div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">
          Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead
          of tapered like a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were
          squared off and smooth instead of the angled with a machine
          bite like a sheet metal screw. <br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>These are not exactly unique.  In the industry, I think they were
      branded as Spirox screws, and are generically known as "christmas
      tree" screws.  They are straight-shank, but have a conical,
      pointed end, with a modified Acme thread.  They're made to be
      received by a similar nut encapsulated in a stamped sheet metal
      clip.  And they're quite adequate for securing sheet metal
      panels--the panels certainly don't just hang on them.  Otherwise,
      the car--even when new--would be a rolling symphony of rattles and
      creaks and knocks.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">
          <br>
        </div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">
          Have you seen an original  TR6 body panel that had primer next
          to bare metal?  I don't know if it is true what the hardware
          store WW II employee told me about the Brits dipping every
          metal part in lacquer paint.  This vet told me during WW II
          they had these big vats in the barns in rural England and all
          the metal fabricated parts for everything were dipped and air
          dried to prevent rust.  These parts would hang there and be
          available for the war effort.  </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
        font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">He figured maybe after WW II ended,
          these vats with the lacquer paint and the malleable metal
          parts that could be re-pressed into what my car was made
          from.  </div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">
          <br>
        </div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,
          Helvetica, sans-serif">He's probably pulling your leg (or was
          an idiot), given that the TR6 began life twenty-four years
          after the end of the war.  Yes, there were probably leftover
          parts, but they went with the war materiel in other conflicts
          (the Brits were fighting what they called the "Malay
          Emergency" beginning in 1948 and also had about ten percent of
          UN's forces in the Korean War beginning in 1950).  Given the
          extreme shortages of everything in the UK post-war, the
          chances were very high that unused steel stampings were
          resmelted.  I think John McC. can attest to the fact that the
          bodies of everything made at Coventry were made from virgin
          sheet metal and not made of leftover Doncaster floorboards.<br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Cheers.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....</pre>
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From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:43:18 -0400 (EDT)

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So my TR3 has a hood  that lifts above the valence.  How does one drop it to be level with the valence?

terry smith

new hampshire

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    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">So my TR3 has a hood&#160; that lifts ab=
ove the valence.&#160; How does one drop it to be level with the valence?</=
p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: h=
elvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">terry smith</p><p sty=
le=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(51, 51, 51);">new hampshire</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"=
font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, =
51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial=
,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style"></p><p style=3D"font-=
size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=
=3D"default-style"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvet=
ica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style"><br></p><p s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #3=
33333;" class=3D"default-style"><br></p></body></html>
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From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:49:05 -0400 (EDT)

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Oh.  And what again is the british word for "hood"?

> On October 7, 2019 at 7:43 PM TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 

>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> 

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<!DOCTYPE html>
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    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Oh.&#160; And what again is the british =
word for &#34;hood&#34;?</p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On October 7, 2019 at=
 7:43 PM TERRY SMITH &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br><p style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333=
333;">So my TR3 has a hood&#160; that lifts above the valence.&#160; How do=
es one drop it to be level with the valence?</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p st=
yle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #=
333333;">terry smith</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica=
, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">new hampshire</p><p style=3D"font-siz=
e: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></=
p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style">&=
#160;<br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans=
-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style"><br></p><p s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #3=
33333;" class=3D"ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size=
: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"=
ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style"><br></p></blockquote><p style=3D"font-size: 12=
pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"defa=
ult-style"><br>&#160;</p><blockquote type=3D"cite">** [email-masked]=
et ** <br> <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://=
www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive <br> <br>Unsubs=
cribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/terryrs@comcas=
t.net <br></blockquote><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,=
arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p></=
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From: Gene M <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 23:51:04 +0000

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Bonnet?

________________________________
From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 4:49 PM
To: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>; Gene M <[email-masked]>; Chad =
<[email-masked]>; [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] new question re. panel spacing

So my TR3 has a hood  that lifts above the valence.  How does one drop it t=
o be level with the valence?

terry smith

new hampshire

comcast.net

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Bonnet?</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> TERRY SMITH &lt;terry=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 7, 2019 4:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Porter &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; Gene M &lt;mclans@sbcgl=
obal.net&gt;; Chad &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; [email-masked] =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] new question re. panel spacing</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:r=
gb(51,51,51)">
Oh.&nbsp; And what again is the british word for &quot;hood&quot;?</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On October 7, 2019 at 7:43 PM TERRY SMITH &lt;ter=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
<br>
<br>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#=
333333">
So my TR3 has a hood&nbsp; that lifts above the valence.&nbsp; How does one=
 drop it to be level with the valence?</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#=
333333">
<br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#=
333333">
terry smith</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#=
333333">
new hampshire</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#=
333333">
<br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#=
333333">
<br>
</p>
<p class=3D"x_ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-fa=
mily:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color:#333333">
&nbsp;<br>
</p>
<p class=3D"x_ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-fa=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive=
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From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:59:38 -0400 (EDT)

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Yeah.  That's it.

> On October 7, 2019 at 7:51 PM Gene M <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>     Bonnet?
>      
> 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     To: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>; Gene M <[email-masked]>; Chad <[email-masked]>; [email-masked] <[email-masked]>

>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sa=
ns-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Yeah.&#160; That&#39;s it.</p><p style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(=
51, 51, 51);"><br></p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On October 7, 2019 at 7:51 =
PM Gene M &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br><div style=3D"font=
-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000;">=
Bonnet?</div><div>&#160;<br><div style=3D"font-family: Calibri,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000;"><br></div><hr style=3D"display:=
 inline-block; width: 98%;"><div id=3D"ox-dafa0d92c9-divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"=
ltr"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: #000000; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><strong>From:</strong> TERRY SMITH &#60;[email-masked]&#6=
2;<br> <strong>Sent:</strong> Monday, October 7, 2019 4:49 PM<br> <strong>T=
o:</strong> Michael Porter &#60;[email-masked]&#62;; Gene M &#60;mclans@s=
bcglobal.net&#62;; Chad &#60;[email-masked]&#62;; [email-masked]=
am.net &#60;[email-masked]&#62;<br> <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: =
[TR] new question re. panel spacing</span><div>&#160;</div></div><div><p st=
yle=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #33=
3333;">Oh.&#160; And what again is the british word for &#34;hood&#34;?</p>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On October 7, 2019 at 7:43 PM TERRY SMITH &#60;te=
[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fa=
mily: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">So my TR3 has a hood&#16=
0; that lifts above the valence.&#160; How does one drop it to be level wit=
h the valence?</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial=
,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fam=
ily: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">terry smith</p><p style=
=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #33333=
3;">new hampshire</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,ar=
ial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-=
family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p class=3D"ox=
-dafa0d92c9-x_ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-f=
amily: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;">&#160;<br></p><p class=
=3D"ox-dafa0d92c9-x_ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p class=
=3D"ox-dafa0d92c9-x_ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p class=
=3D"ox-dafa0d92c9-x_ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p></blockqu=
ote><p class=3D"ox-dafa0d92c9-x_default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; fo=
nt-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br> &#160;</p><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">** [email-masked] ** <br> <br> Donate: http:=
//www.team.net/donate.html <br> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triu=
mphs http://www.team.net/archive <br> <br> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked] <br></blockquote><p =
class=3D"ox-dafa0d92c9-x_default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br> &#160;</p></div></div=
></blockquote><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,san=
s-serif; color: #333333;" class=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">** [email-masked] ** <br> <br>Donate: http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http=
://www.team.net/archive <br> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/=
mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked] <br></blockquote><p style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" c=
lass=3D"default-style"><br>&#160;</p></body></html>
=20
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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 17:39:19 -0700 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0444_01D57D36.27D84AD0"

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> I have never encountered what I would consider a "square" 
> threaded bolt in almost 30 years of working on TR6's.  Maybe 
> that is a descriptor I am unaware of.

P/N UL2705, described as "Screw - Hexagon - Acme thread" in the standard
hardware catalog.  Like Michael said, they engage with what the catalog
calls "Fix Nut - Simmons ACME 'J' type" (prefix FA) or else "Fix Nut -
Simmons 'J' type" (prefix FJ).  I've attached a clip from the SPC.

Clamping force is definitely limited, they aren't as strong as a regular
bolt and nut.  But the "square" ACME threads are actually a bit stronger
than using regular V threads in a clip nut.  They should be able to hold a
fender in place, but perhaps not strong enough to distort it to fit.

The reproductions I got from TRF some years ago did not have pointed tips,
just a small amount of taper to a more-or-less flat tip.  Originals I found
on my Stag were similar (but not the same length as the TR6 versions, I had
to cut down the TR6 bolts to fit).

-- Randall

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 17:49:30 -0700

'Hood' can be either the panel over the engine, or above the driver's head.

AFAIK, 'valence' refers to a panel that hangs down vertically, like some
cars have below the front bumper.  Don't have one of those on my TR3, it's
one piece with the front and rear aprons.

Assuming you're trying to match the panel over the engine (hood in the US,
bonnet in the UK) to the front apron in front of it, the place to start is
removing the shims under the Dzus button brackets, and backing off the
rubber buffers a little to match.

If that doesn't bring it down far enough, you'll need to do some sheet metal
work on the inner fenders (wings in British) to lower the mounting points.

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On 
> Behalf Of TERRY SMITH
> Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 4:43 PM
> To: Michael Porter; Gene M; Chad; [email-masked]
> Subject: [TR] new question re. panel spacing
> 
> So my TR3 has a hood  that lifts above the valence.  How does 
> one drop it to be level with the valence?

---

From: Chad <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 02:14:30 +0000 (UTC)

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 I haven't encountered anything like that on a TR6 that I can recall......
    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 6:31:20 PM CDT, Michael Porter <mdporter@df=
n.com> wrote: =20
=20
  On 10/7/2019 3:15 PM, Gene M wrote:
 =20
=20
  Chad, =20
   Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of tapered =
like a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off and smooth in=
stead of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet metal screw.=20
  =20

=20
=20
These are not exactly unique.=C2=A0 In the industry, I think they were bran=
ded as Spirox screws, and are generically known as "christmas tree" screws.=
=C2=A0 They are straight-shank, but have a conical, pointed end, with a mod=
ified Acme thread.=C2=A0 They're made to be received by a similar nut encap=
sulated in a stamped sheet metal clip.=C2=A0 And they're quite adequate for=
 securing sheet metal panels--the panels certainly don't just hang on them.=
=C2=A0 Otherwise, the car--even when new--would be a rolling symphony of ra=
ttles and creaks and knocks.

 =20
  =20
   Have you seen an original=C2=A0 TR6 body panel that had primer next to b=
are metal?=C2=A0 I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II e=
mployee told me about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer paint.=
=C2=A0 This vet told me during WW II they had these big vats in the barns i=
n rural England and all the metal fabricated parts for everything were dipp=
ed and air  dried to prevent rust.=C2=A0 These parts would hang there and b=
e available for the war effort.=C2=A0  =20
=20
=20
  He figured maybe after WW II ended, these vats with the lacquer paint and=
 the malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into what my car was ma=
de  from.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =20
  He's probably pulling your leg (or was an idiot), given that the TR6 bega=
n life twenty-four years after the end of the war.=C2=A0 Yes, there were pr=
obably leftover parts, but they went with the war materiel in other conflic=
ts (the Brits were fighting what they called the "Malay  Emergency" beginni=
ng in 1948 and also had about ten percent of UN's forces in the Korean War =
beginning in 1950).=C2=A0 Given the extreme shortages of everything in the =
UK post-war, the chances were very high that unused steel stampings were re=
smelted.=C2=A0 I think John McC. can attest to the fact that the bodies of =
everything made at Coventry were made from virgin sheet metal and not made =
of leftover Doncaster floorboards.
  =20
=20

=20
=20

=20
=20
Cheers.
=20
=20
 --=20

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance=
....  =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpc12ac84byahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
        <div>I haven't encountered anything like that on a TR6 that I can recall......</div><div><br></div>
        
        <div id="ydpc12ac84byahoo_quoted_0942368176" class="ydpc12ac84byahoo_quoted">
            <div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
                
                <div>
                    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 6:31:20 PM CDT, Michael Porter &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114"><div>
    <div class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114moz-cite-prefix">On 10/7/2019 3:15 PM, Gene M wrote:<br clear="none">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      </blockquote></div><div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
          Chad,</div>
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
          <br clear="none">
        </div>
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
          Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead
          of tapered like a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were
          squared off and smooth instead of the angled with a machine
          bite like a sheet metal screw. <br clear="none">
        </div>
      </div>
    
    <p><br clear="none">
    </p>
    <p>These are not exactly unique.&nbsp; In the industry, I think they were
      branded as Spirox screws, and are generically known as "christmas
      tree" screws.&nbsp; They are straight-shank, but have a conical,
      pointed end, with a modified Acme thread.&nbsp; They're made to be
      received by a similar nut encapsulated in a stamped sheet metal
      clip.&nbsp; And they're quite adequate for securing sheet metal
      panels--the panels certainly don't just hang on them.&nbsp; Otherwise,
      the car--even when new--would be a rolling symphony of rattles and
      creaks and knocks.</p><div class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqt6150985484" id="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqtfd71929"><br clear="none">
    </div><div class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqt6150985484" id="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqtfd57695">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
          <br clear="none">
        </div>
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
          Have you seen an original&nbsp; TR6 body panel that had primer next
          to bare metal?&nbsp; I don't know if it is true what the hardware
          store WW II employee told me about the Brits dipping every
          metal part in lacquer paint.&nbsp; This vet told me during WW II
          they had these big vats in the barns in rural England and all
          the metal fabricated parts for everything were dipped and air
          dried to prevent rust.&nbsp; These parts would hang there and be
          available for the war effort.&nbsp; </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br clear="none">
    </div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqt6150985484" id="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqtfd34617">
      </div><div style="font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><div class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqt6150985484" id="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqtfd55903">
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">He figured maybe after WW II ended,
          these vats with the lacquer paint and the malleable metal
          parts that could be re-pressed into what my car was made
          from.&nbsp;&nbsp;</div></div>
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
          <br clear="none">
        </div>
        <div style="margin:0px;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;">He's probably pulling your leg (or was
          an idiot), given that the TR6 began life twenty-four years
          after the end of the war.&nbsp; Yes, there were probably leftover
          parts, but they went with the war materiel in other conflicts
          (the Brits were fighting what they called the "Malay
          Emergency" beginning in 1948 and also had about ten percent of
          UN's forces in the Korean War beginning in 1950).&nbsp; Given the
          extreme shortages of everything in the UK post-war, the
          chances were very high that unused steel stampings were
          resmelted.&nbsp; I think John McC. can attest to the fact that the
          bodies of everything made at Coventry were made from virgin
          sheet metal and not made of leftover Doncaster floorboards.<br clear="none">
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br clear="none">
    </p>
    <p><br clear="none">
    </p>
    <p>Cheers.<br clear="none">
    </p>
    <br clear="none">
    <pre class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114moz-signature">-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....</pre><div class="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqt6150985484" id="ydpc12ac84byiv0114845114yqtfd92022">
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From: "Kinderlehrer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:29:28 -0700

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Perhaps the bonnet came from a different car? Is the valance have a =
raised portion where the hinge fastens? If so, the bonnet should also =
have a raised portion under the hinge. I think the embossed, if =
that=E2=80=99s the right term, came put about serial number 6000.  Just =
a thought.

=20

Bob

=20

From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of =
TERRY SMITH
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 4:43 PM
To: Michael Porter; Gene M; Chad; [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] new question re. panel spacing

=20

So my TR3 has a hood  that lifts above the valence.  How does one drop =
it to be level with the valence?

=20

terry smith

new hampshire

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

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have a raised portion under the hinge. I think the embossed, if =
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D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>TERRY SMITH<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 07, 2019 4:43 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Michael Porter; Gene M; Chad; =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> [TR] new question re. panel =
spacing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'>So my TR3 =
has a hood&nbsp; that lifts above the valence.&nbsp; How does one drop =
it to be level with the valence?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'>terry =
smith<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'>new =
hampshire<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3Ddefault-style><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3Ddefault-style><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3Ddefault-style><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: Jack McGahey <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 00:42:38 -0500

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The paragraph about metal parts being dipped and hung to dry reminded me of t=
his piece about the spaghetti harvest:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&source=3Dweb&cd=3D2&ved=3D2ahUKEwjY_qXh94v=
lAhVQcq0KHZxOBQ0QwqsBMAF6BAgOEAg&url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch=
%3Fv%3DMEqp0x6ajGE&usg=3DAOvVaw3RucjOP3X_FtlaVB_ZB4V3
Perhaps the WW2 vet who told the story had a similar sense of humor.

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 4:47 PM, John Macartney <[email-masked]> w=
rote:
>=20
> In the 23 odd years I=E2=80=99ve been on this list, I don=E2=80=99t think I=
=E2=80=99ve laughed so much at a ww2 veterans observation of manufacturing l=
ife in this country during the conflict. Get this. Manufacturing of anything=
 to do with the prosecution of the war in the U.K. was strictly off limits t=
o anyone not directly involved in it. As for farms being involved, all the f=
arms were going flat out doing everything possible to feed the population. H=
itlers U Boats nearly starved us out and farms had far more important things=
 to do that paint hardware and let it dry. This poppycock is as way out of t=
he window as myths I=E2=80=99ve seen in the past on this list that Triumphs w=
ere built using whatever happened to be available, or E type Jaguars were bu=
ilt in a factory with rusty metal walls as cladding and earth floors!!
>=20
> Jonmac
>=20
> Whenever I feel the need for exercise, experience has shown me it is bette=
r to lie down until the feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL
>> Diameter of the bolt is the same on the entire shaft instead of tapered l=
ike a modern sheet metal screw, and threads were squared off and smooth inst=
ead of the angled with a machine bite like a sheet metal screw. =20
>>=20
>> I need to clean out my garage in the next year or two and I'll post a pic=
 when I locate these bolts.  I never found a source for these, including The=
 Roadster Factory or Moss Motors.  Only this WW II veteran identified it--di=
dn't know where to get it or what it was called. =20
>>=20
>> Have you seen an original  TR6 body panel that had primer next to bare me=
tal?  I don't know if it is true what the hardware store WW II employee told=
 me about the Brits dipping every metal part in lacquer paint.  This vet tol=
d me during WW II they had these big vats in the barns in rural England and a=
ll the metal fabricated parts for everything were dipped and air dried to pr=
event rust.  These parts would hang there and be available for the war effor=
t.  He figured maybe after WW II ended, these vats with the lacquer paint an=
d the malleable metal parts that could be re-pressed into what my car was ma=
de from. =20
>> To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>; Gene M <mclans@sbc=
global.net>
>> I have never encountered what I would consider a "square" threaded bolt i=
n almost 30 years of working on TR6's.  Maybe that is a descriptor I am unaw=
are of.
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/arch=
ive
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.m=
[email-masked]
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/mcgahey=
[email-masked]

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">The paragraph about metal parts being dippe=
d and hung to dry reminded me of this piece about the spaghetti harvest:<div=
><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&amp;source=3Dweb&amp;cd=3D2&am=
p;ved=3D2ahUKEwjY_qXh94vlAhVQcq0KHZxOBQ0QwqsBMAF6BAgOEAg&amp;url=3Dhttps%3A%=
2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMEqp0x6ajGE&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3RucjOP3X_Ftl=
aVB_ZB4V3">https://www.google.com/url?sa=3Dt&amp;source=3Dweb&amp;cd=3D2&amp=
;ved=3D2ahUKEwjY_qXh94vlAhVQcq0KHZxOBQ0QwqsBMAF6BAgOEAg&amp;url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMEqp0x6ajGE&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3RucjOP3X_Ftla=
VB_ZB4V3</a></div><div>Perhaps the WW2 vet who told the story had a similar s=
ense of humor.<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent from m=
y iPad</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Oct 7, 2019, at 4:47 PM, John Macartney &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">In t=
he 23 odd years I=E2=80=99ve been on this list, I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=
=99ve laughed so much at a ww2 veterans observation of manufacturing life in=
 this country during the conflict. Get this. Manufacturing of anything to do=
 with the prosecution of the war in the U.K. was strictly off limits to anyo=
ne not directly involved in it. As for farms being involved, all the farms w=
ere going flat out doing everything possible to feed the population. Hitlers=
 U Boats nearly starved us out and farms had far more important things to do=
 that paint hardware and let it dry. This poppycock is as way out of the win=
dow as myths I=E2=80=99ve seen in the past on this list that Triumphs were b=
uilt using whatever happened to be available, or E type Jaguars were built i=
n a factory with rusty metal walls as cladding and earth floors!!<div><br></=
div><div>Jonmac<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Whenever I=
 feel the need for exercise, experience has shown me it is better to lie dow=
n until the feeling goes away. WINSTON CHURCHILL</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>O=
n 7 Oct 2019, at 22:15, Gene M &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">m=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">

</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **</span><=
br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html=
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=
</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archi=
ve</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><=
/span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">tri=
[email-masked]</a> **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></sp=
an><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">htt=
p://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.net=
/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>U=
nsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs=
/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/mcgaheyrx=
@aol.com</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Jack McGahey <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 00:42:38 -0500

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Sent from my iPad

global.net>
ive
[email-masked]
ve
[email-masked]

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---

From: Frank Fisher <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 20:44:38 +0000 (UTC)

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 the correct word of course is "bonnet".
frank
    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 04:49:25 PM PDT, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comca=
st.net> wrote: =20
=20
=20
Oh.=C2=A0 And what again is the british word for "hood"?

On October 7, 2019 at 7:43 PM TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:=20
=20

So my TR3 has a hood=C2=A0 that lifts above the valence.=C2=A0 How does one=
 drop it to be level with the valence?

terry smith

new hampshire

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

** [email-masked] **=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive=
=20
=20
comcast.net=20

=C2=A0

[email-masked]
 =20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp436294c6yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;"><div></div>
        <div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">the correct word of course i=
s "bonnet".</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">frank</div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"ydp68b693d3yahoo_quoted_1325570481" class=3D"ydp68=
b693d3yahoo_quoted">
            <div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 04:49:25 PM PDT, TERRY SMIT=
H &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542"><div><div class=
=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542yqt6300725995" id=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542yq=
tfd28062"><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);">Oh.&nbsp; And what again is the british word for=
 "hood"?</p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On October 7, 2019 at 7:43 PM TERRY S=
MITH &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote: <br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"no=
ne"><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;col=
or:#333333;">So my TR3 has a hood&nbsp; that lifts above the valence.&nbsp;=
 How does one drop it to be level with the valence?</p><p style=3D"font-siz=
e:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;"><br clear=
=3D"none"></p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans=
-serif;color:#333333;">terry smith</p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;">new hampshire</p><p style=3D=
"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;"><b=
r clear=3D"none"></p><p style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, aria=
l, sans-serif;color:#333333;"><br clear=3D"none"></p><p class=3D"ydp68b693d=
3yiv0538666542ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fam=
ily:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;">&nbsp;<br clear=3D"none"><=
/p><p class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;"=
><br clear=3D"none"></p><p class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542ox-e5a5dd109e-d=
efault-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-se=
rif;color:#333333;"><br clear=3D"none"></p><p class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv053866=
6542ox-e5a5dd109e-default-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvet=
ica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;"><br clear=3D"none"></p></blockquote>=
<p class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542default-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt;=
font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#333333;"><br clear=3D"none"=
>&nbsp;</p></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538=
666542yqt6300725995" id=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542yqtfd49681">** triumphs@=
autox.team.net ** <br clear=3D"none"> <br clear=3D"none">Donate: http://www=
.team.net/donate.html <br clear=3D"none">Archive: http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive </div><br clear=3D"none"> <br cle=
ar=3D"none">Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/trium=
phs/[email-masked] <div class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542yqt6300725995=
" id=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542yqtfd48847"><br clear=3D"none"></div></bloc=
kquote><div class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542yqt6300725995" id=3D"ydp68b693=
d3yiv0538666542yqtfd34946"><p class=3D"ydp68b693d3yiv0538666542default-styl=
e" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:#=
333333;"><br clear=3D"none">&nbsp;</p></div></div></div><div class=3D"ydp68=
b693d3yqt6300725995" id=3D"ydp68b693d3yqtfd64918">** <a shape=3D"rect" href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">triu=
[email-masked]</a> **<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate: <a =
shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"nofollow" ta=
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ve: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs " rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs </a>=
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