Subject: [TR] TR4A - This Seems Odd

From: "G.D. Huggins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 09:34:48 -0500

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All,

Here=E2=80=99s another thing to ponder whilst I wait for my rebuilt =
lever shocks to arrive..

My engine will idle under the following conditions:
Idle screws are backed off all the way, not touching the plate, =
therefore not opening the throttle plate.  (In theory, they are fully =
closed.)
Mixtures nuts all the way lean. (In theory, there should be ZERO fuel =
going into the carbs.)
Both the throttle and choke are loosened from the linkage, making sure =
jets are all the way up, and throttles are not sticking
For the record, these are professionally rebuilt HS6 carbs, with super =
throttle shaft bushing, perfectly centered jets, etc.

In what is ostensibly a ZERO fuel/air mixture, how is this engine =
running?
Do these engines just have a magic power to idle when starved?

Has anyone else witnessed this on their own cars?
If so, should I do anything?  If so, what?  (other than maybe looking to =
make sure the needles/jets are matched correctly)

Kind Regards,

Guy D. Huggins
[email-masked]
817.454.6415

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">All,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Here=E2=80=99s another thing to ponder whilst I wait for my =
rebuilt lever shocks to arrive..</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">My engine will idle under the following =
conditions:</div><div class=3D""><ul class=3D""><li class=3D"">Idle =
screws are backed off all the way, not touching the plate, therefore not =
opening the throttle plate. &nbsp;(In theory, they are fully =
closed.)</li><li class=3D"">Mixtures nuts all the way lean. (In theory, =
there should be ZERO fuel going into the carbs.)</li><li class=3D"">Both =
the throttle and choke are loosened from the linkage, making sure jets =
are all the way up, and throttles are not sticking</li></ul></div><div =
class=3D"">For the record, these are professionally rebuilt HS6 carbs, =
with super throttle shaft bushing, perfectly centered jets, =
etc.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">In what =
is ostensibly a ZERO fuel/air mixture, how is this engine =
running?</div><div class=3D"">Do these engines just have a magic power =
to idle when starved?</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Has anyone else witnessed this on their own cars?</div><div =
class=3D"">If so, should I do anything? &nbsp;If so, what? &nbsp;(other =
than maybe looking to make sure the needles/jets are matched =
correctly)</div><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;">Kind Regards,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Guy D. Huggins<br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br =
class=3D"">817.454.6415</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br=
 class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""></body></html>=

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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

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From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 16:58:10 +0000 (UTC)

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 Well, Dr. Watson, eliminate the impossible and what is left, however impro=
bable, is the truth.
1) An engine will not run without the proper fuel/air ratio.2) the only sou=
rce for the proper ratio of fuel/air is the carburettor jet3) The engine co=
ntinues to run
ergo: the throttle is not fully closed.=C2=A0=20

Actually, the throttle plates do not fully close off since there is no poin=
t if you want the engine to at least idle.=C2=A0 The throttle plate is actu=
ally slightly undersized to allow it to freely rotate in the carburettor th=
roat without binding.=C2=A0 Also, the plates must be properly centered on t=
he shaft.=C2=A0 If they are not the top or bottom will hit the throat befor=
e the other end does and there will be a gap even at "in theory" fully clos=
ed.
If you hold a carburettor up to the light with the throttle fully closed yo=
u will see light leaking past the plate, mostly at the sides near the shaft=
.=C2=A0 If you see a lot more light at the top or bottom the plate is not p=
roperly centered.
But, if you get a decent idle, go with it as is.
=20
Dave=20

=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: G.D. Huggins <[email-masked]>
To: Triumph Mailing List <[email-masked]>
Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2019 9:35 am
Subject: [TR] TR4A - This Seems Odd

All,
Here=E2=80=99s another thing to ponder whilst I wait for my rebuilt lever s=
hocks to arrive..
My engine will idle under the following conditions:  =20
   - Idle screws are backed off all the way, not touching the plate, theref=
ore not opening the throttle plate. =C2=A0(In theory, they are fully closed=
.)
   - Mixtures nuts all the way lean. (In theory, there should be ZERO fuel =
going into the carbs.)
   - Both the throttle and choke are loosened from the linkage, making sure=
 jets are all the way up, and throttles are not sticking
For the record, these are professionally rebuilt HS6 carbs, with super thro=
ttle shaft bushing, perfectly centered jets, etc.
In what is ostensibly a ZERO fuel/air mixture, how is this engine running?D=
o these engines just have a magic power to idle when starved?
Has anyone else witnessed this on their own cars?If so, should I do anythin=
g? =C2=A0If so, what? =C2=A0(other than maybe looking to make sure the need=
les/jets are matched correctly)

Kind Regards,

Guy D. Huggins
[email-masked]
817.454.6415

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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 12pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div> <font size=3D"3">Well, Dr. Watson, eliminate the impossible and what =
is left, however improbable, is the truth.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">1) An engine will not run without the proper fuel/air=
 ratio.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">2) the only source for the proper ratio of fuel/air i=
s the carburettor jet</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">3) The engine continues to run</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">ergo: the throttle is not fully closed.&nbsp; <br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">Actually, the throttle plates do not fully close off =
since there is no point if you want the engine to at least idle.&nbsp; The =
throttle plate is actually slightly undersized to allow it to freely rotate=
 in the carburettor throat without binding.&nbsp; Also, the plates must be =
properly centered on the shaft.&nbsp; If they are not the top or bottom wil=
l hit the throat before the other end does and there will be a gap even at =
"in theory" fully closed.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">If you hold a carburettor up to the light with the th=
rottle fully closed you will see light leaking past the plate, mostly at th=
e sides near the shaft.&nbsp; If you see a lot more light at the top or bot=
tom the plate is not properly centered.</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size=3D"3">But, if you get a decent idle, go with it as is.</fon=
t><br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"clear:both"><font size=3D"4">Dave </font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: G.D. Huggins &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Triumph Mailing List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2019 9:35 am<br>
Subject: [TR] TR4A - This Seems Odd<br>
<br>

<div id=3D"yiv4927371596">
<div>All,
<div class=3D"yiv4927371596"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596"></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">Here=E2=80=99s another thing to ponder whilst =
I wait for my rebuilt lever shocks to arrive..</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596"></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">My engine will idle under the following condit=
ions:</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596"><ul class=3D"yiv4927371596"><li class=3D"yiv49=
27371596">Idle screws are backed off all the way, not touching the plate, t=
herefore not opening the throttle plate. &nbsp;(In theory, they are fully c=
losed.)</li><li class=3D"yiv4927371596">Mixtures nuts all the way lean. (In=
 theory, there should be ZERO fuel going into the carbs.)</li><li class=3D"=
yiv4927371596">Both the throttle and choke are loosened from the linkage, m=
aking sure jets are all the way up, and throttles are not sticking</li></ul=
></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">For the record, these are professionally rebui=
lt HS6 carbs, with super throttle shaft bushing, perfectly centered jets, e=
tc.</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596"></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">In what is ostensibly a ZERO fuel/air mixture,=
 how is this engine running?</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">Do these engines just have a magic power to id=
le when starved?</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596"></div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">Has anyone else witnessed this on their own ca=
rs?</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">If so, should I do anything? &nbsp;If so, what=
? &nbsp;(other than maybe looking to make sure the needles/jets are matched=
 correctly)</div>
<br class=3D"yiv4927371596"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596">
<div class=3D"yiv4927371596">

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-=
style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-=
transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">Kind Regards,<br class=
=3D"yiv4927371596"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596">Guy D. Huggins<br class=3D"y=
iv4927371596"><a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" ymailto=3D"mailto:gdhuggins@ge=
nfiniti.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"yiv4927371596" removedlink__ab2e3bf=
a-cd3c-4a1b-8a17-1120d42e1140__href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">gdhu=
[email-masked]</a><br class=3D"yiv4927371596">817.454.6415</div>

<div class=3D"yiv4927371596" style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvet=
ica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
"><br class=3D"yiv4927371596"></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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