Subject: Re: [TR] MGA

From: EDWARD WOODS <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 19:43:29 -0400 (EDT)

--===============3061178764413676848==
	boundary="----=_Part_979323_1599402264.1563407009726"

------=_Part_979323_1599402264.1563407009726
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. =
So what's wrong here? The year?

Ed

> On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>     =20
>     I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the rac=
ing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is legendary.=
  It all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1=
 liter car.  The link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of t=
hat car.  At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the race=
, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't see a Triumph.  It was=
 the smallest engine in the race, and they won the race, and that started P=
orsche racing.  If they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would=
 have been changed.
>=20
>     The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through =
years of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le Mans,=
 and then they did an amazing job to restore it.  The CEO of Kettle potato =
chips, he is the owner of the car.
>=20
>     https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-=
porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>     On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>=20
>=20
>         > >=20
> >         Cool.  Thanks, Rye.  That's sort of what I'm asking.  Engine si=
ze can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on.  So the Spyder was=
 500 cc's smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outperformed?
> >=20
> >             > > > On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac=
.com> wrote:
> > >=20
> > >             One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, =
one of only 90 produced, not a Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but i=
t was a Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, two separate ignition manif=
olds and two ignition coils.  It was also a mid engine design like the 914 =
and the current Boxter and Cayman.  So this car isn't comparable to a Trium=
ph or MGA of that era.
> > >=20
> > >             =20
> > >             Rye
> > >             1960 TR3A
> > >             1963 356
> > >             1968 912
> > >             1988 911 Carrera
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >             On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast=
.net> wrote:
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >                 > > > >=20
> > > >                 Hmmm.  So looking quickly other street cars of the =
time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the P=
orsche "speedster" or even if it was different, other than James Dean died =
in one.  The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter.  The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter e=
ngine.  Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter engine.  As far as I c=
an tell the Fiat 850 started in 1964, with an engine a single strong man co=
uld seemingly lift.  The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter.  The Austin Martin=
 DB4 was 3.7 liters.  Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six cy=
linder engines.  The Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it h=
er putt-putt.  Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine=
.
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 All this said, and certainly subject to any correct=
ions you might have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races again=
st these.  Anybody?
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 Terry
> > > >=20
> > > >                     > > > > > On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <=
[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     110 mph in 4th OD is only 4500 rpm.  Not what=
 I call =E2=80=9Ccrank shattering rpm=E2=80=9D.  A stock TR3 won=E2=80=99t =
usually run that fast of course, but 87mm liners were actually cheaper than=
 83s, back in the 70s.  (I actually found a set that had been returned to W=
arshawski=E2=80=99s in Chicago, better known as JC Whitney, for even less t=
han the usual price.)
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     And I=E2=80=99ve run 4500 for literally hours=
 without a problem.  (Speed enforcement in the desert tends to be lax =F0=
=9F=98=8A )
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     Sent from Mail https://go.microsoft.com/fwlin=
k/?LinkId=3D550986 for Windows 10
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     From: TERRY SMITH mailto:[email-masked]
> > > > >                     Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM
> > > > >                     To: Randall mailto:[email-masked]
> > > > >                     Cc: Triumphs mailto:[email-masked]
> > > > >                     Subject: Re: [TR] MGA
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     That reminds me.  When I say my TR3 "keeps up=
 with traffic," I'm referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rathe=
r) that clips along between 70 and 80 mph.  I've been curious about the var=
ious cruising speeds and power performances of TR3's and their competition =
back in the day, cruising that is without winding up to crank shattering rp=
m's.  Anybody familiar with that?=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                 > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                     > > > > > ** [email-masked] mailto:tri=
[email-masked] **
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > > >                     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triump=
hs http://www.team.net/archive
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> > > > >=20
> > > > >                 > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 =20
> > > >=20
> > > >                 ** [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net **
> > > >=20
> > > >                 Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > >                 Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs htt=
p://www.team.net/archive
> > > >=20
> > > >                 Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/triumphs/[email-masked]
> > > >=20
> > > >             > > >=20
> > >         > >=20
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >     >=20

=20

> ** [email-masked] **
>=20
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/a=
rchive
>=20
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fo=
[email-masked]
>=20

=20

------=_Part_979323_1599402264.1563407009726
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,ari=
al,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn&#39;t been inve=
nted. But then, neither had the MGA. So what&#39;s wrong here? The year?<br=
></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-=
serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-f=
amily: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Ed<br></p><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston &#60;[email-masked]&=
#62; wrote: <br> <br><div>&#160;<br></div><div>I don&#39;t know the racing =
history of the two cars together, but the racing heritage of Porsche out pe=
rforming bigger horsepower cars is legendary. &#160;It all started with a 3=
56 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car. &#160;The lin=
k below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that car. &#160;At 2:=
30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the race, and you can s=
ee two MGAs in the photo, but I don&#39;t see a Triumph. &#160;It was the s=
mallest engine in the race, and&#160;they won the race, and that started Po=
rsche racing. &#160;If they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche w=
ould have been changed.</div><div><br></div><div>The rest of the video is p=
retty cool how they found the car, through years of research they were able=
 to verify it was the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing jo=
b to restore it. &#160;The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner of t=
he car.</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.roadandtrack.com/ca=
r-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/">=
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsch=
e-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><=
br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH =
&#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br></div><div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-msg-quote"><p style=3D"color: rgb(51,=
 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Cool.&=
#160; Thanks, Rye.&#160; That&#39;s sort of what I&#39;m asking.&#160; Engi=
ne size can be made up by gear ratios, OD&#39;s, cams, and so on.&#160; So =
the Spyder was 500 cc&#39;s smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outpe=
rformed?<br></p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye =
Livingston &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br><div><span style=3D"font-=
family: geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">One correction, James Dean di=
ed in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a Speedster. &#160=
;It had a&#160;1.5 liter engine, but it was a Carrera engine with twin over=
head cams,&#160;<span style=3D"color: rgb(34, 34, 34); text-transform: none=
; text-indent: 0px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; background-color: r=
gb(255, 255, 255);">two separate ignition manifolds&#160;and&#160;two ignit=
ion coils. &#160;It was also a mid engine design like the 914 and the curre=
nt Boxter and Cayman. &#160;So this car isn&#39;t comparable to a&#160;Triu=
mph or MGA of that era.</span></span></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(3=
4, 34, 34); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; font-family: geneva, sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-sp=
acing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; background-c=
olor: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div>&#160;<div class=3D"ox-9e7d8218=
89-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, san=
s-serif; font-size: 14px;">Rye</span> <br> <span style=3D"font-family: gene=
va, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">1960 TR3A</span></span></=
div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">196=
3 356</span></span></div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-=
signature"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"=
font-size: 14px;">1968 912</span></span></div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-o=
x-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-se=
rif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">1988 911 Carrera</span></span></div>=
<div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span style=3D=
"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;"><br></s=
pan></span></div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signatur=
e"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 14px;"><br></span></span></div><div><br>On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TER=
RY SMITH &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br></div><div><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-msg-quote"><p st=
yle=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; fon=
t-size: 12pt;">Hmmm.&#160; So looking quickly other street cars of the time=
, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don&#39;t know about the P=
orsche &#34;speedster&#34; or even if it was different, other than James De=
an died in one.&#160; The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter.&#160; The Jaguar XK 150=
 had a 3.8 liter engine.&#160; Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter=
 engine.&#160; As far as I can tell the Fiat 850 started in 1964, with an e=
ngine a single strong man could seemingly lift.&#160; The Sunbeam Alpine wa=
s a 1.5 liter.&#160; The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7 liters.&#160; Couldn&#39=
;t quickly find the big Healeys four and six cylinder engines.&#160; The Bu=
geye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it her putt-putt.&#160; Tri=
umphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine.<br></p><p style=
=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 12pt;"><br></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvet=
ica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">All this said, and certainly subjec=
t to any corrections you might have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked u=
p in races against these.&#160; Anybody?<br></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, =
51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></p=
><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f; font-size: 12pt;">Terry<br></p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 16, 201=
9 at 5:40 PM Randall &#60;[email-masked]&#62; wrote: <br> <br><div cla=
ss=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-WordSection1"><p class=3D"o=
x-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">110 mph in 4<sup>th</su=
p> OD is only 4500 rpm.&#160; Not what I call &#8220;crank shattering rpm&#=
8221;.&#160; A stock TR3 won&#8217;t usually run that fast of course, but 8=
7mm liners were actually cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.&#160; (I actual=
ly found a set that had been returned to Warshawski&#8217;s in Chicago, bet=
ter known as JC Whitney, for even less than the usual price.)</p><p class=
=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><p class=
=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">And I&#8217;ve run=
 4500 for literally hours without a problem.&#160; (Speed enforcement in th=
e desert tends to be lax <span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&q=
uot;,sans-serif;">=F0=9F=98=8A</span> )</p><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f=
5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f=
5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.=
com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=3D"ox-9e7d=
821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">&#160;</p><div style=3D"borde=
r-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rg=
b(225, 225, 225) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p class=
=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal" style=3D"padding: =
0in; border: currentColor; border-image: none;"><strong>From: </strong><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">TERRY SMITH</a><br><strong>Sent: </stron=
g>Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM<br><strong>To: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">Randall</a><br><strong>Cc: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">Triumphs</a><br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [TR]=
 MGA</p></div><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNorm=
al">&#160;</p><p><span style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: &quot;=
Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">That reminds me.&#160; When I=
 say my TR3 &#34;keeps up with traffic,&#34; I&#39;m referencing traffic on=
 the freeway here (tollway, rather) that clips along between 70 and 80 mph.=
&#160; I&#39;ve been curious about the various cruising speeds and power pe=
rformances of TR3&#39;s and their competition back in the day, cruising tha=
t is without winding up to crank shattering rpm&#39;s.&#160; Anybody famili=
ar with that?&#160;</span></p></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-=
ox-17f5f529b1-default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: =
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>&#160;</p><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite">** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m.net</a> ** <br> <br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">h=
ttp://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a> <br> <br>U=
nsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumph=
s/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/terry=
[email-masked]</a> <br></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1=
-default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,ari=
al,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>&#160;</p><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-=
ox-17f5f529b1-_stretch"><span class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-body-tex=
t-content">** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m.net</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net=
/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a href=3D"=
ribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ryel=
@mac.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><b=
r></span></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821=
889-default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,=
arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>&#160;</p></div></blockquote></div>=
</blockquote><p class=3D"default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); fo=
nt-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>&#160;</p><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">** [email-masked] ** <br> <br>Donate: http:/=
/www.team.net/donate.html <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triump=
hs http://www.team.net/archive <br> <br>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked] <br></blockquote><p cla=
ss=3D"default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetic=
a,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>&#160;</p></body></html>
=20
------=_Part_979323_1599402264.1563407009726--

--===============3061178764413676848==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

--===============3061178764413676848==--

---

From: "TeriAnn J. Wakeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:58:51 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============4539122802002665376==
 boundary="------------B91CD11E8B361830E78CA85C"
Content-Language: en-US

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------B91CD11E8B361830E78CA85C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:
>
> Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the 
> MGA. So what's wrong here? The year?
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=p2qrOg8COx8

Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes

>> I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the 
>> racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is 
>> legendary.  It all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le 
>> Mans with a 1.1 liter car.  The link below is to a fantastic video of 
>> the restoration of that car.  At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a 
>> still photo from the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but 
>> I don't see a Triumph.  It was the smallest engine in the race, 
>> and they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.  If they had 
>> lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have been changed.
>>
>> The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through 
>> years of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le 
>> Mans, and then they did an amazing job to restore it.  The CEO of 
>> Kettle potato chips, he is the owner of the car.
>>
>> https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>> Cool. Thanks, Rye.  That's sort of what I'm asking.  Engine size can 
>>> be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on.  So the Spyder was 
>>>> On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of 
>>>> only 90 produced, not a Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but 
>>>> it was a Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, two separate 
>>>> ignition manifolds and two ignition coils.  It was also a mid 
>>>> engine design like the 914 and the current Boxter and Cayman.  So 
>>>> this car isn't comparable to a Triumph or MGA of that era.
>>>>
>>>> Rye
>>>> 1960 TR3A
>>>> 1963 356
>>>> 1968 912
>>>> 1988 911 Carrera
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm. So looking quickly other street cars of the time, a 1959 
>>>>> Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the 
>>>>> Porsche "speedster" or even if it was different, other than James 
>>>>> Dean died in one.  The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter.  The Jaguar XK 
>>>>> 150 had a 3.8 liter engine.  Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 
>>>>> 1.3 liter engine.  As far as I can tell the Fiat 850 started in 
>>>>> 1964, with an engine a single strong man could seemingly lift.  
>>>>> The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter.  The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7 
>>>>> liters.  Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six 
>>>>> cylinder engines.  The Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister 
>>>>> called it her putt-putt.  Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the 
>>>>> same 2 liter engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All this said, and certainly subject to any corrections you might 
>>>>> have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races against 
>>>>> these. Anybody?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry
>>>>>
>>>>>> On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 110 mph in 4^th OD is only 4500 rpm. Not what I call “crank 
>>>>>> shattering rpm”.  A stock TR3 won’t usually run that fast of 
>>>>>> course, but 87mm liners were actually cheaper than 83s, back in 
>>>>>> the 70s.  (I actually found a set that had been returned to 
>>>>>> Warshawski’s in Chicago, better known as JC Whitney, for even 
>>>>>> less than the usual price.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I’ve run 4500 for literally hours without a problem.  (Speed 
>>>>>> enforcement in the desert tends to be lax ðŸ˜Š )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> 
>>>>>> for Windows 10
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [TR] MGA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reminds me.  When I say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm 
>>>>>> referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rather) that 
>>>>>> clips along between 70 and 80 mph.  I've been curious about the 
>>>>>> various cruising speeds and power performances of TR3's and their 
>>>>>> competition back in the day, cruising that is without winding up 
>>>>>> to crank shattering rpm's.  Anybody familiar with that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>>>
>>>
>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

-- 

Book - The Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United States and 
Canada <http://overlandtravel.us>
2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn what to write

*Because the world beckons and life waits for no one*

--------------B91CD11E8B361830E78CA85C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta charset="UTF-8">
      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Well, in 1951 the
        TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. So
        what's wrong here? The year?<br>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&amp;v=p2qrOg8COx8">https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&amp;v=p2qrOg8COx8</a></p>
    <p>Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
      </p>
      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Ed<br>
      </p>
      <blockquote type="cite">On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
        <br>
        <div> <br>
        </div>
        <div>I don't know the racing history of the two cars together,
          but the racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger
          horsepower cars is legendary.  It all started with a 356 in
          1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car.  The
          link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that
          car.  At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from
          the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't
          see a Triumph.  It was the smallest engine in the race,
          and they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.  If
          they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have
          been changed.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the
          car, through years of research they were able to verify it was
          the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing job to
          restore it.  The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner
          of the car.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><a
href="https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/</a></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
          On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div class="ox-9e7d821889-msg-quote">
              <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Cool. 
                Thanks, Rye.  That's sort of what I'm asking.  Engine
                size can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so
                on.  So the Spyder was 500 cc's smaller than a Triumph,
                but significantly outperformed?<br>
              </p>
              <blockquote type="cite">On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye
                Livingston <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
                <br>
                <div><span style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;
                    font-size: 14px;">One correction, James Dean died in
                    a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a
                    Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but it was a
                    Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, <span
                      style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); text-transform:
                      none; text-indent: 0px; font-style: normal;
                      font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float:
                      none; display: inline; white-space: normal;
                      background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">two
                      separate ignition manifolds and two ignition
                      coils.  It was also a mid engine design like the
                      914 and the current Boxter and Cayman.  So this
                      car isn't comparable to a Triumph or MGA of that
                      era.</span></span></div>
                <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
                    text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; font-family:
                    geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style:
                    normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                    float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal;
                    background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
                  </span></div>
                 
                <div
                  class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
                    style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
                    14px;">Rye</span> <br>
                  <span style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
                      style="font-size: 14px;">1960 TR3A</span></span></div>
                <div
                  class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
                    style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
                      style="font-size: 14px;">1963 356</span></span></div>
                <div
                  class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
                    style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
                      style="font-size: 14px;">1968 912</span></span></div>
                <div
                  class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
                    style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
                      style="font-size: 14px;">1988 911 Carrera</span></span></div>
                <div
                  class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
                    style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
                      style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
                    </span></span></div>
                <div
                  class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
                    style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
                      style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
                    </span></span></div>
                <div><br>
                  On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-msg-quote">
                      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Hmmm. 
                        So looking quickly other street cars of the
                        time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter
                        engine; I don't know about the Porsche
                        "speedster" or even if it was different, other
                        than James Dean died in one.  The 1959 MGA had a
                        1.6 liter.  The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter
                        engine.  Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3
                        liter engine.  As far as I can tell the Fiat 850
                        started in 1964, with an engine a single strong
                        man could seemingly lift.  The Sunbeam Alpine
                        was a 1.5 liter.  The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7
                        liters.  Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys
                        four and six cylinder engines.  The Bugeye
                        Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it
                        her putt-putt.  Triumphs and Morgans, of course,
                        ran the same 2 liter engine.<br>
                      </p>
                      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                      </p>
                      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">All
                        this said, and certainly subject to any
                        corrections you might have, I remain unsure how
                        Triumphs stacked up in races against these. 
                        Anybody?<br>
                      </p>
                      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                      </p>
                      <p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Terry<br>
                      </p>
                      <blockquote type="cite">On July 16, 2019 at 5:40
                        PM Randall <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
                        <br>
                        <div
                          class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-WordSection1">
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">110
                            mph in 4<sup>th</sup> OD is only 4500 rpm. 
                            Not what I call “crank shattering rpm”.  A
                            stock TR3 won’t usually run that fast of
                            course, but 87mm liners were actually
                            cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.  (I
                            actually found a set that had been returned
                            to Warshawski’s in Chicago, better known as
                            JC Whitney, for even less than the usual
                            price.)</p>
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">And
                            I’ve run 4500 for literally hours without a
                            problem.  (Speed enforcement in the desert
                            tends to be lax <span style="font-family:
                              &quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif;">ðŸ˜Š</span>
                            )</p>
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Sent
                            from <a
                              href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a> for
                            Windows 10</p>
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium;
                            border-style: solid none none; border-color:
                            rgb(225, 225, 225) currentColor
                            currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
                            <p
                              class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"
                              style="padding: 0in; border: currentColor;
                              border-image: none;"><strong>From: </strong><a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">TERRY SMITH</a><br>
                              <strong>Sent: </strong>Tuesday, July 16,
                              2019 1:47 PM<br>
                              <strong>To: </strong><a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">Randall</a><br>
                              <strong>Cc: </strong><a
                                href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                                moz-do-not-send="true">Triumphs</a><br>
                              <strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [TR] MGA</p>
                          </div>
                          <p
                            class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p>
                          <p><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);
                              font-family:
                              &quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;
                              font-size: 12pt;">That reminds me.  When I
                              say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm
                              referencing traffic on the freeway here
                              (tollway, rather) that clips along between
                              70 and 80 mph.  I've been curious about
                              the various cruising speeds and power
                              performances of TR3's and their
                              competition back in the day, cruising that
                              is without winding up to crank shattering
                              rpm's.  Anybody familiar with that? </span></p>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p
                        class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-default-style"
                        style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                         </p>
                      <blockquote type="cite">** <a
                          href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
                        ** <br>
                        <br>
                        Donate: <a
                          href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
                        <br>
                        Archive: <a
                          href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
                        <a href="http://www.team.net/archive"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/archive</a>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]"
                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a>
                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p
                        class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-default-style"
                        style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                        helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                         </p>
                      <div class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-_stretch"><span
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-body-text-content">** <a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>
                          **<br>
                          <br>
                          Donate: <a
                            href="http://www.team.net/donate.html"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
                          Archive: <a
                            href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
                          <a href="http://www.team.net/archive"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
                          <br>
                          Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
                            href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
                        </span></div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="ox-9e7d821889-default-style" style="color:
                rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
                helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                 </p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <p class="default-style" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);
        font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
         </p>
      <blockquote type="cite">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> ** <br>
        <br>
        Donate: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>
        Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a> <br>
        <br>
        Unsubscribe/Manage:
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <p class="default-style" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);
        font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
         </p>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <p align="center"><a href="http://overlandtravel.us">Book - The
          Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United States and
          Canada</a>
        <br>
        2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn
        what to write<br>
        <br>
        <b>Because the world beckons and life waits for no one</b></p>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------B91CD11E8B361830E78CA85C--

--===============4539122802002665376==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============4539122802002665376==--

---

From: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:11:49 -0500

--===============8339166280908451448==

--000000000000c604cc058df6ded7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

MGA Prototype, EX172 based on the MG TD.
http://www.classiccarportraits.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm

raced by MG at LeMans.

Triumphs and MGs did not generally  race in the same class SCCA in the 50s,
though they would often be in the same combined class for races.  Here is
the most comprehensive site I know of for fifties and sixties (the best!)
sports car racing
http://www.maseratiexperts.com/SCCA%20results%20test%20page.htm don't know
why this doesn't show up as a link, but worked when I copied and pasted,
scroll down for entry fields and results by year.

Of interest in 1968 the TR250 was very competitive with the then 2 liter
911 in C production SCCA, but they could not quite get it done in the
championship race

Greg Lemon
TR250

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:59 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA=
.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3D4&v=3Dp2qrOg8COx8
>
> On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
>
> I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the racing
> heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is legendary.  =
It
> all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1
> liter car.  The link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of
> that car.  At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the
> race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't see a Triumph.  =
It
> was the smallest engine in the race, and they won the race, and that
> started Porsche racing.  If they had lost or not done well, history of
> Porsche would have been changed.
>
> The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through year=
s
> of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le Mans, and
> then they did an amazing job to restore it.  The CEO of Kettle potato
> https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-pors=
che-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/
>
>
>
>
>
> On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Cool.  Thanks, Rye.  That's sort of what I'm asking.  Engine size can be
> made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on.  So the Spyder was 500 cc'=
s
> smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outperformed?
>
> On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90
> produced, not a Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but it was a Carre=
ra
> engine with twin overhead cams, two separate ignition manifolds and two
> ignition coils.  It was also a mid engine design like the 914 and the
> current Boxter and Cayman.  So this car isn't comparable to a Triumph or
> MGA of that era.
>
>
> Rye
> 1960 TR3A
> 1963 356
> 1968 912
> 1988 911 Carrera
>
>
>
> On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> Hmmm.  So looking quickly other street cars of the time, a 1959 Porsche
> 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the Porsche "speedster" =
or
> even if it was different, other than James Dean died in one.  The 1959 MG=
A
> had a 1.6 liter.  The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter engine.  Karmann Ghia
> had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter engine.  As far as I can tell the Fiat 85=
0
> started in 1964, with an engine a single strong man could seemingly lift.
> The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter.  The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7 liters=
.
> Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six cylinder engines.  The
> Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it her putt-putt.
> Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine.
>
>
> All this said, and certainly subject to any corrections you might have, I
> remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races against these.  Anybody?
>
>
> Terry
>
> On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <[email-masked]>
> <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> 110 mph in 4th OD is only 4500 rpm.  Not what I call =E2=80=9Ccrank shatt=
ering
> rpm=E2=80=9D.  A stock TR3 won=E2=80=99t usually run that fast of course,=
 but 87mm liners
> were actually cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.  (I actually found a set
> that had been returned to Warshawski=E2=80=99s in Chicago, better known a=
s JC
> Whitney, for even less than the usual price.)
>
>
>
> And I=E2=80=99ve run 4500 for literally hours without a problem.  (Speed
> enforcement in the desert tends to be lax =C3=B0=C5=B8=CB=9C=C5=A0 )
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
> *To: *Randall <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *Triumphs <[email-masked]>
> *Subject: *Re: [TR] MGA
>
>
>
> referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rather) that clips alon=
g
> between 70 and 80 mph.  I've been curious about the various cruising spee=
ds
> and power performances of TR3's and their competition back in the day,
> cruising that is without winding up to crank shattering rpm's.  Anybody
> familiar with that?
>
>
>
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/arch=
ive
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/tjwake=
[email-masked]
> 2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn what to writ=
e
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

--000000000000c604cc058df6ded7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">MGA Prototype, EX172 based on the MG TD.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a h=
ref=3D"http://www.classiccarportraits.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.classiccarportraits=
.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm</a><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">raced by MG at LeMans.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Triumphs and MGs did not generally=C2=A0 race in the same class SCCA i=
n the 50s, though they would often be in the same combined class for races.=
=C2=A0 Here is the most comprehensive site I know of for fifties and sixtie=
s (the best!) sports car racing <a href=3D"http://www.maseratiexperts.com/S=
CCA%20results%20test%20page.htm">http://www.maseratiexperts.com/SCCA%20resu=
lts%20test%20page.htm</a> don&#39;t know why this doesn&#39;t show up as a =
link, but worked when I copied and pasted, scroll down for entry fields and=
 results by year.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Of int=
erest in 1968 the TR250 was very competitive with the then 2 liter 911 in C=
 production SCCA, but they could not quite get it done in the championship =
race</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">TR250</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:59 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595349=
43292440moz-cite-prefix">On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
     =20
      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt">Well, in 1951 the
        TR2 hadn&#39;t been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. So
        what&#39;s wrong here? The year?<br>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <p><a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9142359534=
943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_=
continue=3D4&amp;v=3Dp2qrOg8COx8" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3D4&amp;v=3Dp=
2qrOg8COx8</a></p>
    <p>Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt"><br>
      </p>
      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt">Ed<br>
      </p>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston
        <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914235953=
4943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrot=
e: <br>
        <br>
        <div>=C2=A0<br>
        </div>
        <div>I don&#39;t know the racing history of the two cars together,
          but the racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger
          horsepower cars is legendary.=C2=A0 It all started with a 356 in
          1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car.=C2=A0 The
          link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that
          car.=C2=A0 At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo fr=
om
          the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don&#39;t
          see a Triumph.=C2=A0 It was the smallest engine in the race,
          and=C2=A0they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.=C2=
=A0 If
          they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have
          been changed.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the
          car, through years of research they were able to verify it was
          the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing job to
          restore it.=C2=A0 The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner
          of the car.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><a href=3D"https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-ca=
rs/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/" rel=3D"noreferrer no=
referrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul=
ture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/</a></d=
iv>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
          On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH
          <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9142359=
534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">&lt;terryrs@comcast=
.net&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
            <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914=
2359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-msg-quote">
              <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,s=
ans-serif;font-size:12pt">Cool.=C2=A0
                Thanks, Rye.=C2=A0 That&#39;s sort of what I&#39;m asking.=
=C2=A0 Engine
                size can be made up by gear ratios, OD&#39;s, cams, and so
                on.=C2=A0 So the Spyder was 500 cc&#39;s smaller than a Tri=
umph,
                but significantly outperformed?<br>
              </p>
              <blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye
                Livingston <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-744849062969=
4657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:ryel@mac=
.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">&lt;ryel@m=
ac.com&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
                <br>
                <div><span style=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif;font-size=
:14px">One correction, James Dean died in
                    a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a
                    Speedster.=C2=A0 It had a=C2=A01.5 liter engine, but it=
 was a
                    Carrera engine with twin overhead cams,=C2=A0<span styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;white-spa=
ce:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">two
                      separate ignition manifolds=C2=A0and=C2=A0two ignitio=
n
                      coils.=C2=A0 It was also a mid engine design like the
                      914 and the current Boxter and Cayman.=C2=A0 So this
                      car isn&#39;t comparable to a=C2=A0Triumph or MGA of =
that
                      era.</span></span></div>
                <div><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none=
;text-indent:0px;font-family:geneva,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;white-sp=
ace:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
                  </span></div>
                =C2=A0
                <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Rye</span> <br>
                  <span style=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px">1960 TR3A</span></span></div>
                <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">1963 3=
56</span></span></div>
                <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">1968 9=
12</span></span></div>
                <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">1988 9=
11 Carrera</span></span></div>
                <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>
                    </span></span></div>
                <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>
                    </span></span></div>
                <div><br>
                  On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH
                  <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">&lt;terryrs@=
comcast.net&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
                    <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296946573=
24m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-msg-quote">
                      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Hmmm.=C2=A0
                        So looking quickly other street cars of the
                        time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter
                        engine; I don&#39;t know about the Porsche
                        &quot;speedster&quot; or even if it was different, =
other
                        than James Dean died in one.=C2=A0 The 1959 MGA had=
 a
                        1.6 liter.=C2=A0 The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter
                        engine.=C2=A0 Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.=
3
                        liter engine.=C2=A0 As far as I can tell the Fiat 8=
50
                        started in 1964, with an engine a single strong
                        man could seemingly lift.=C2=A0 The Sunbeam Alpine
                        was a 1.5 liter.=C2=A0 The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.=
7
                        liters.=C2=A0 Couldn&#39;t quickly find the big Hea=
leys
                        four and six cylinder engines.=C2=A0 The Bugeye
                        Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it
                        her putt-putt.=C2=A0 Triumphs and Morgans, of cours=
e,
                        ran the same 2 liter engine.<br>
                      </p>
                      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                      </p>
                      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">All
                        this said, and certainly subject to any
                        corrections you might have, I remain unsure how
                        Triumphs stacked up in races against these.=C2=A0
                        Anybody?<br>
                      </p>
                      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                      </p>
                      <p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Terry<br>
                      </p>
                      <blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 16, 2019 at 5:40
                        PM Randall <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448=
490629694657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> wrote: <br>
                        <br>
                        <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-WordS=
ection1">
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">110
                            mph in 4<sup>th</sup> OD is only 4500 rpm.=C2=
=A0
                            Not what I call =E2=80=9Ccrank shattering rpm=
=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 A
                            stock TR3 won=E2=80=99t usually run that fast o=
f
                            course, but 87mm liners were actually
                            cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.=C2=A0 (I
                            actually found a set that had been returned
                            to Warshawski=E2=80=99s in Chicago, better know=
n as
                            JC Whitney, for even less than the usual
                            price.)</p>
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">And
                            I=E2=80=99ve run 4500 for literally hours witho=
ut a
                            problem.=C2=A0 (Speed enforcement in the desert
                            tends to be lax <span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif">=C3=B0=C5=B8=CB=9C=C5=A0</span>
                            )</p>
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">Sent
                            from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink=
/?LinkId=3D550986" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">Mail</a> for
                            Windows 10</p>
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
                          <div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;bord=
er-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor current=
Color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                            <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296=
94657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-Mso=
Normal" style=3D"padding:0in;border:currentColor"><strong>From: </strong><a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">TERRY SMITH</a><br>
                              <strong>Sent: </strong>Tuesday, July 16,
                              2019 1:47 PM<br>
                              <strong>To: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:tr3dri=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">R=
andall</a><br>
                              <strong>Cc: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:triump=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">Triumphs</a><br>
                              <strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [TR] MGA</p>
                          </div>
                          <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
                          <p><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family=
:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">That reminds me.=C2=A0 Wh=
en I
                              say my TR3 &quot;keeps up with traffic,&quot;=
 I&#39;m
                              referencing traffic on the freeway here
                              (tollway, rather) that clips along between
                              70 and 80 mph.=C2=A0 I&#39;ve been curious ab=
out
                              the various cruising speeds and power
                              performances of TR3&#39;s and their
                              competition back in the day, cruising that
                              is without winding up to crank shattering
                              rpm&#39;s.=C2=A0 Anybody familiar with that?=
=C2=A0</span></p>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296946573=
24m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-default-style" style=3D=
"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"=
><br>
                        =C2=A0</p>
                      <blockquote type=3D"cite">** <a href=3D"mailto:triump=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>
                        ** <br>
                        <br>
                        Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team=
.net/donate.html</a>
                        <br>
                        Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/t=
riumphs" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://=
www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
                        <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive=
</a>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.ne=
t/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/trium=
phs/[email-masked]</a>
                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296946573=
24m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-default-style" style=3D=
"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"=
><br>
                        =C2=A0</p>
                      <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-744849062969465=
7324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-_stretch"><span class=
=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7=
d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-body-text-content">** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@auto=
x.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">triu=
[email-masked]</a>
                          **<br>
                          <br>
                          Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.htm=
l" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a><br>
                          Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail=
/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
                          <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"no=
referrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archi=
ve</a><br>
                          <br>
                          Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/r=
[email-masked]</a><br>
                        </span></div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914=
2359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-default-style" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);f=
ont-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                =C2=A0</p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595349=
43292440default-style" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,a=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
        =C2=A0</p>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">** <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448=
490629694657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> ** <br>
        <br>
        Donate: <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9=
142359534943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate=
.html" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>
        Archive: <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-=
9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>
        <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914235953=
4943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net=
/archive</a> <br>
        <br>
        Unsubscribe/Manage:
        <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914235953=
4943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fogbro1@co=
mcast.net</a>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595349=
43292440default-style" style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,a=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
        =C2=A0</p>
      <br>
      <fieldset class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9142=
359534943292440mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914235953=
4943292440moz-quote-pre">** <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296=
94657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:triu=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a> **

4943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" r=
el=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.n=
et/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595=
34943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tri=
umphs" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>  <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448=
490629694657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://=
www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.team.net/archive</a>

m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumph=
s/[email-masked]</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595349=
43292440moz-signature">-- <br>
      <p align=3D"center"><a href=3D"http://overlandtravel.us" rel=3D"noref=
errer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Book - The
          Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United States and
          Canada</a>
        <br>
        2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn
        what to write<br>
        <br>
        <b>Because the world beckons and life waits for no one</b></p>
    </div>
  </div>

** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
<br>
errer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.h=
tml</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/=
pipermail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D=
"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/grglmn@gmail=
.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000c604cc058df6ded7--

--===============8339166280908451448==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============8339166280908451448==--