Subject: Re: [TR] Sleepless in Ocala

From: Darrell Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:22:55 -0700

My only thought is that the priming lever is working, but perhaps there is an issue with the pump being driven from the cam shaft.  Have you changed the pump recently?  Can you pull the pump off the engine, leaving the lines connected, and see if it pumps fuel when you operate the lever that the cam drives?

> On Jul 11, 2019, at 4:01 PM, Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> List:
> I have spent many an hour and part trying to track down my running issue on
> the 60 TR3A.  Car starts up fine with cold start.  Runs for about a minute
> and stalls out.  Float bowls are both near empty.  Switched fuel pumps and
> fuel lines, new clear filter near carb, new needle and seats on both carbs.
> Still happens.  After it stalls, I can manually prime fuel with handle on
> fuel pump and it fills both bowls up with fuel without a problem.  Start her
> up and runs for a minute until gas gone.  Lift off fuel bowl tops and floats
> at bottom with no gas.  Both float needles are down when I lift off fuel
> bowl tops which would allow gas in.  I cleaned and checked all fuel lines,
> passageways in fuel bowl tops, etc.  I have plenty of fuel in the fuel pump
> bowl so don't think there is problem getting gas to pump.  
> 
> Why is it not allowing gas in the fuel bowls when running?  The pump allows
> it in when not running?  
> 
> Any help greatly appreciated.
> 
> Jim Henningsen
> Ocala, FL
> 60 TR3A
> 61 TR3A
> 62 TR4
> 75 TR6
> 
> ** [email-masked] **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: James Henningsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:53:31 -0400

That’s was my thought too as I ponder the simple mechanics of it all.  In my 25 years with TRs, I’ve never had that issue when changing a pump.   I did replace pump since previous one was part of original failure.  It was a cheap $39 one from moss.  I didn’t buy it came installed on he car.  It is a piece of junk.  I put on a spare new repro  from TRF and works.  I’ll have to take pump off and see if issue with priming lever.  
Thanks
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Darrell Walker <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:47:24 -0500

Do you have a spare electric pump on hand.  Stick it in line and see if that works.   I was first thinking you were not getting fuel from the tank but you say you confirmed that is not it.  
Bill

Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X

On Jul 11, 2019, at 6:53 PM, James Henningsen <[email-masked]> wrote:

Sent from my iPhone

>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/darrellw360@ma

---

From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 20:32:33 -0500

On the off chance that air can't get into the gas tank, try it with the 
gas cap open.

Cheers, Tony Drews

On 7/11/2019 7:47 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 20:34:07 -0500

--===============5676468301399072574==

--000000000000b32968058d71e88d

Definitely check to see the fuel pump lever is on the correct side of the
cam.  I had a similar problem a few years ago when a very good shop did me
the unrequested favor of replacing a fuel pump gasket and an embarrassed
mechanic got the lever positioned wrong.  He's still a little red-faced
over that...

In my case the car would run for a minute or so after priming the bowls,
then stall until they were manually filled again.

Here's what it looked like by the time I pulled it.  Note the worn spot on
the affected lever next to a reference.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XQ7d3fM/0/f3e2e8a6/X5/i-XQ7d3fM-X5.jpg

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 6:19 PM Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

--000000000000b32968058d71e88d
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Definitely check to see the fuel pump lever is on the corr=
ect side of the cam.=C2=A0 I had a similar problem a few years ago when a v=
ery good shop did me the unrequested favor of replacing a fuel pump gasket =
and an embarrassed mechanic got the lever positioned wrong.=C2=A0 He&#39;s =
still a little red-faced over that...<div><br></div><div>In my case the car=
 would run for a minute or so after priming the bowls, then stall until the=
y were manually filled again.</div><div><br></div><div>Here&#39;s what it l=
ooked like by the time I pulled it.=C2=A0 Note the worn spot on the affecte=
d lever next to a reference.</div><div><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.co=
m/photos/i-XQ7d3fM/0/f3e2e8a6/X5/i-XQ7d3fM-X5.jpg">https://photos.smugmug.c=
om/photos/i-XQ7d3fM/0/f3e2e8a6/X5/i-XQ7d3fM-X5.jpg</a><br></div><div><br></=
div><div>Don</div><div>1962 TR3B TSF202L</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 6:19 =
PM Jim Henningsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
>List:<br>
I have spent many an hour and part trying to track down my running issue on=
<br>
the 60 TR3A.=C2=A0 Car starts up fine with cold start.=C2=A0 Runs for about=
 a minute<br>
and stalls out.=C2=A0 Float bowls are both near empty.=C2=A0 Switched fuel =
pumps and<br>
fuel lines, new clear filter near carb, new needle and seats on both carbs.=
<br>
Still happens.=C2=A0 After it stalls, I can manually prime fuel with handle=
 on<br>
fuel pump and it fills both bowls up with fuel without a problem.=C2=A0 Sta=
rt her<br>
up and runs for a minute until gas gone.=C2=A0 Lift off fuel bowl tops and =
floats<br>
at bottom with no gas.=C2=A0 Both float needles are down when I lift off fu=
el<br>
bowl tops which would allow gas in.=C2=A0 I cleaned and checked all fuel li=
nes,<br>
passageways in fuel bowl tops, etc.=C2=A0 I have plenty of fuel in the fuel=
 pump<br>
bowl so don&#39;t think there is problem getting gas to pump.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
Why is it not allowing gas in the fuel bowls when running?=C2=A0 The pump a=
llows<br>
it in when not running?=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
Any help greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
Jim Henningsen<br>
Ocala, FL<br>
60 TR3A<br>
61 TR3A<br>
62 TR4<br>
75 TR6<br>
<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@au=
tox.team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000b32968058d71e88d--

--===============5676468301399072574==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============5676468301399072574==--

---

From: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 20:34:42 -0500

--===============4760338412803884714==

--000000000000f1f0af058d71ea87
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I wouldn't rule out fuel blockage, the higher rate of flow when the car is
running can pull sediment or even a chunk of something  to a restriction
point such as the fuel line connection at the bottom of the tank, and when
you stop pressure releases and fuel can dribble through again.

Greg Lemon
TR250

On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:47 PM [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Do you have a spare electric pump on hand.  Stick it in line and see if
> that works.   I was first thinking you were not getting fuel from the tan=
k
> but you say you confirmed that is not it.
> Bill
>
> That=E2=80=99s was my thought too as I ponder the simple mechanics of it =
all.  In
> my 25 years with TRs, I=E2=80=99ve never had that issue when changing a p=
ump.   I
> did replace pump since previous one was part of original failure.  It was=
 a
> cheap $39 one from moss.  I didn=E2=80=99t buy it came installed on he ca=
r.  It is
> a piece of junk.  I put on a spare new repro  from TRF and works.  I=E2=
=80=99ll
> have to take pump off and see if issue with priming lever.
> Thanks
> Jim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Darrell Walker <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
> >
> >
> > My only thought is that the priming lever is working, but perhaps there
> is an issue with the pump being driven from the cam shaft.  Have you
> changed the pump recently?  Can you pull the pump off the engine, leaving
> the lines connected, and see if it pumps fuel when you operate the lever
> that the cam drives?
> >
> >> at bottom with no gas.  Both float needles are down when I lift off fu=
el
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/darrellw360@ma
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

--000000000000f1f0af058d71ea87
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">I wouldn&#39;t rule out fuel blockage, the higher rate of=
 flow when the car is running can pull sediment or even a chunk of somethin=
g=C2=A0 to a restriction point such as the fuel line connection at the bott=
om of the tank, and when you stop pressure releases and fuel can dribble th=
rough again.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon</div><=
div dir=3D"auto">TR250</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, 7:47 PM <a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flas=
h.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">Do you have a spare electric pump on hand.=C2=A0 Stick it in line and s=
ee if that works.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I was first thinking you were not getting fue=
l from the tank but you say you confirmed that is not it.=C2=A0 <br>
Bill<br>
<br>
Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X<br>
<br>
On Jul 11, 2019, at 6:53 PM, James Henningsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:trguy75=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
<br>
That=E2=80=99s was my thought too as I ponder the simple mechanics of it al=
l.=C2=A0 In my 25 years with TRs, I=E2=80=99ve never had that issue when ch=
anging a pump.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I did replace pump since previous one was part o=
f original failure.=C2=A0 It was a cheap $39 one from moss.=C2=A0 I didn=E2=
=80=99t buy it came installed on he car.=C2=A0 It is a piece of junk.=C2=A0=
 I put on a spare new repro=C2=A0 from TRF and works.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ll ha=
ve to take pump off and see if issue with priming lever.=C2=A0 <br>
Thanks<br>
Jim<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
&gt; On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Darrell Walker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:darr=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; My only thought is that the priming lever is working, but perhaps ther=
e is an issue with the pump being driven from the cam shaft.=C2=A0 Have you=
 changed the pump recently?=C2=A0 Can you pull the pump off the engine, lea=
ving the lines connected, and see if it pumps fuel when you operate the lev=
er that the cam drives?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; On Jul 11, 2019, at 4:01 PM, Jim Henningsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; List:<br>
&gt;&gt; I have spent many an hour and part trying to track down my running=
 issue on<br>
&gt;&gt; the 60 TR3A.=C2=A0 Car starts up fine with cold start.=C2=A0 Runs =
for about a minute<br>
&gt;&gt; and stalls out.=C2=A0 Float bowls are both near empty.=C2=A0 Switc=
hed fuel pumps and<br>
&gt;&gt; fuel lines, new clear filter near carb, new needle and seats on bo=
th carbs.<br>
&gt;&gt; Still happens.=C2=A0 After it stalls, I can manually prime fuel wi=
th handle on<br>
&gt;&gt; fuel pump and it fills both bowls up with fuel without a problem.=
=C2=A0 Start her<br>
&gt;&gt; up and runs for a minute until gas gone.=C2=A0 Lift off fuel bowl =
tops and floats<br>
&gt;&gt; at bottom with no gas.=C2=A0 Both float needles are down when I li=
ft off fuel<br>
&gt;&gt; bowl tops which would allow gas in.=C2=A0 I cleaned and checked al=
l fuel lines,<br>
&gt;&gt; passageways in fuel bowl tops, etc.=C2=A0 I have plenty of fuel in=
 the fuel pump<br>
&gt;&gt; bowl so don&#39;t think there is problem getting gas to pump.=C2=
=A0 <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Why is it not allowing gas in the fuel bowls when running?=C2=A0 T=
he pump allows<br>
&gt;&gt; it in when not running?=C2=A0 <br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Any help greatly appreciated.<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Jim Henningsen<br>
&gt;&gt; Ocala, FL<br>
&gt;&gt; 60 TR3A<br>
&gt;&gt; 61 TR3A<br>
&gt;&gt; 62 TR4<br>
&gt;&gt; 75 TR6<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D=
"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tri=
umphs</a>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/triumphs/darrellw360@ma" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/darrellw360@ma</a><br>
<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
<br>
errer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>=
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000f1f0af058d71ea87--

--===============4760338412803884714==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============4760338412803884714==--

---

From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 21:10:08 -0600

Many years ago when I was working at Bailey's, there was a fellow with 
am MG that would run almost all the time.  He had a problem getting up 
the hill to his house, though.  I fussed with it for hours, messing with 
the ignition and checking the carb setup.  It ran fine in the shop, 
revved easily, test drives around the block were fine.  The big test was 
heading up this one street towards his home in the foothills, a long 
steady incline.  It would start out just fine, but slowly lose power 
going up the hill until finally sputtering to a stop.  After a few 
minutes, it would fire right up.  After a few of these longet test runs, 
I thought I had it figured out, took the rubber bumper B up the 45th 
South test circuit.  Same thing.  I coasted to the side of the road, 
quite perplexed and frustrated.  I wasn't sure what to check next. I 
thought it does have gas in the tank, right?  Went to check.  As I 
started to remove the gas cap there was a HUGE rush of air into the 
tank.  Replaced the cap, it fired right up and I drove it back to the 
shop.  We fixed the blocked gas tank vent plumbing, and the problem 
disappeared.

mjb.

---

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:41:29 -0400

Thanks everyone for all the advice and great tips.  Will check the tank pressure, vent lines, potential debris, and fuel pump. I know now that I am working from pump back to the tank.  All is good from pump to and through the carbs.  This has been a good exercise for getting my mechanical diagnosing skills back on track.  I do have a spare electric that I could check too.  Back to the garage today and will keep you all posted.
Grateful in Ocala!
Jim Henningsen  

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Mark J Bradakis
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 11:10 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Sleepless in Ocala

Many years ago when I was working at Bailey's, there was a fellow with am MG that would run almost all the time.  He had a problem getting up the hill to his house, though.  I fussed with it for hours, messing with the ignition and checking the carb setup.  It ran fine in the shop, revved easily, test drives around the block were fine.  The big test was heading up this one street towards his home in the foothills, a long steady incline.  It would start out just fine, but slowly lose power going up the hill until finally sputtering to a stop.  After a few minutes, it would fire right up.  After a few of these longet test runs, I thought I had it figured out, took the rubber bumper B up the 45th South test circuit.  Same thing.  I coasted to the side of the road, quite perplexed and frustrated.  I wasn't sure what to check next. I thought it does have gas in the tank, right?  Went to check.  As I started to remove the gas cap there was a HUGE rush of air into the tank.  Replaced the cap, it fired right up and I drove it back to the shop.  We fixed the blocked gas tank vent plumbing, and the problem disappeared.

mjb.

---

From: Chris Simo <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 12:57:04 -0400

--===============7813931564703394548==

--000000000000952cbd058d7ecdf3

+1 on blocked vent.

also had a similar problem on my tr4.  Would start/run fine and after warm,
it would die. Did almost all the stuff you did and realized I had water in
my gas.  the water was settling to the bottom of the bowl while resting,
mix with the gas after running a bit and die.

By the time I figured that out, I'd changed points, coil, cap, wires,
plugs, and adjusted timing and carbs a hundred ways to Sunday.

Good luck!

--000000000000952cbd058d7ecdf3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">+1 on blocked vent.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">also had a similar problem on my tr4.=C2=A0 Would start/run fine =
and after warm, it would die. Did almost all the stuff you did and realized=
 I had water in my gas.=C2=A0 the water was settling to the bottom of the b=
owl while resting, mix with the gas after running a bit and die.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">By the time I figured that out, I&=
#39;d changed points, coil, cap, wires, plugs, and adjusted timing and carb=
s a hundred ways to Sunday.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">Good luck!</div></div>

--000000000000952cbd058d7ecdf3--

--===============7813931564703394548==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============7813931564703394548==--