Subject: Re: [TR] Differences between a bolt - hexagon head and a setscrew - hexagon head

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 00:01:47 -0700 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0442_01D50F68.637ADF30"

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> My Stag parts book shows three fasteners holding on the water 
> pump cover.
> 
> 1 is a bolt (HU) no washer needed nor shown, the other two 
> are setscrews (HU) 2 washers needed and are shown.

I believe the distinction is that a "setscrew" has no unthreaded shank
portion, while a "bolt" does.

Then what I would call a "set screw" (a short screw with no head, so it can
go entirely within a threaded hole), the British call a "grub screw".

The Stag water pump SPC page I'm looking at calls for (3) of WP0008 "washer,
plain" on the water pump.  I'm fairly confident the 3rd one goes under
HB0811 even though there is only one drawing of it (under HU0806).  There
are quite a few different editions of the Stag SPC, and I've found lots of
errors in all of them.  (Oddly enough, the later ones seem to be even worse
than the earlier ones.)  So I'm guessing you're looking at a different
version, and the qty (2) for WP0008 is a misprint.  Or not; but I don't know
of any reason the two short ones would need a flat washer and not the longer
one.  (HB0811 is 1-3/8", while HU0806 is only 3/4".)

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 

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From: Michael Marr <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 11:20:22 +0000

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From: Sujit Roy <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 09:07:12 -0700

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Thx. Randall, You corrected me with the part no. My parts book for sure
shows WP08 as (2)

By the way,  i have noticed what in the USA is called a hex cap screw. "A *hex
head cap screw* is a six-sided bolt with a trimmed *hex head* and a washer
face on the bearing surface" Most of my screws and bolts for the Triumph
have this washer face. Do I really need an additional washer or is the
washer needed to spread the load?

Sujit

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:20 AM Michael Marr <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> The shank of a screw is threaded all the way to the head of the screw.
> The shank of a bolt is only threaded part way - the balance of the bolt is
> unthreaded.
>
> Michael Marr
>
> Mobile:  630-202-0065
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 21, 2019, at 01:04, Sujit Roy <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> I can't figure out what the difference  is between  a bolt - hexagon head
> and a setscrew hexagon head as mentioned in the Standard Hardware Catalog.
> Here's my theory.  A bolt  - hexagon head has an integrated washer built
> into the head. and the part no. starts with HB where as a setscrew -
> hexagon head does not have the integral washer. (HU)
>
> My Stag parts book shows three fasteners holding on the water pump cover.
>
> 1 is a bolt (HU) no washer needed nor shown, the other two are setscrews
> (HU) 2 washers needed and are shown.
>
>
>
> Can someone enlighten me?
>
> Regards, Sujit
>
> --
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
>
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>

-- 
Sujit Roy
Cupertino, California

https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thx. Randall, You corrected me with the part no. My parts =
book for sure shows WP08 as (2)=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>By the=C2=A0way,=
=C2=A0 i have noticed what in the USA is called a hex cap screw.=C2=A0&quot=
;<span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif">A=C2=A0=
</span><b style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif">hex =
head cap screw</b><span style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:Roboto,arial,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0is a six-sided bolt with a trimmed=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"=
font-size:13px;font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif">hex head</b><font face=
=3D"Roboto, arial, sans-serif">=C2=A0and a washer face on the bearing surfa=
ce&quot; Most of my screws and bolts for the Triumph=C2=A0 have this washer=
 face. Do I really need an additional=C2=A0washer or is the washer needed t=
o spread the load?</font></div><div><font face=3D"Roboto, arial, sans-serif=
"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"Roboto, arial, sans-serif">Sujit</fon=
t></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:20 AM Michael Marr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"auto">
The shank of a screw is threaded all the way to the head of the screw.=C2=
=A0 The shank of a bolt is only threaded part way - the balance of the bolt=
 is unthreaded.=C2=A0<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_160359057617442683AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Michae=
l Marr<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mobile: =C2=A0630-202-0065</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On May 21, 2019, at 01:04, Sujit Roy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphstag@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I can&#39;t figure out what the difference=C2=A0 is betwee=
n=C2=A0=C2=A0a bolt - hexagon head and a setscrew hexagon head as mentioned=
 in the Standard Hardware Catalog.
<div>Here&#39;s my theory.=C2=A0 A bolt=C2=A0 - hexagon head has an integra=
ted washer built into the head. and the part no. starts with HB where as a =
setscrew - hexagon head does not have the integral washer. (HU)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My Stag parts book shows three fasteners holding on the water pump cov=
er.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1 is a bolt (HU) no washer needed nor shown, the other two are setscre=
ws (HU) 2 washers needed and are shown.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can someone enlighten me?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards, Sujit<br clear=3D"all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail-m_160359057617442683gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Sujit Roy<br>
Cupertino, California</div>
<div><br>
<a href=3D"https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **</span><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Sujit Roy<br>Cupertino, Ca=
lifornia</div><div><br><a href=3D"https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/</a><br><br></div></=
div></div>

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 10:48:48 -0700

> By the way,  i have noticed what in the USA is called a hex 
> cap screw. "A hex head cap screw is a six-sided bolt with a 
> trimmed hex head and a washer face on the bearing surface" 

The terminology is not always used consistently even within the US.  The
term "cap screw" is sometimes used only as the opposite of "set screw",
indicating that it does have a head that is larger than the threads.
Another definition is that a "cap screw" threads into some other part (like
a manifold or cylinder head) rather than a "bolt" going into a nut.

> Most of my screws and bolts for the Triumph  have this washer 
> face. Do I really need an additional washer or is the washer 
> needed to spread the load?

Depends on the application; but in general if the manufacturer specified a
flat washer, then I would use one.  I've found several places where adding a
flat washer helped significantly; can't remember ever thinking that leaving
one out would help in any way.  For steel fasteners against aluminum
castings (like the Stag water pump), they also help keep the bolt head from
tearing up the casting.

Fastener technology is one of those things that looks simple at first, but
the more you look into it, the more complicated it gets.

-- Randall