Subject: Re: [TR] TR3A Questions

From: Stan Foster <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 01:20:50 +0000

Jim, when people remove the bellows thermostat and put in a regular non-bellows style they often put a restrictor into the bypass hose. If you have that restrictor you can remove it.

You can also remove the valve in the brake switch. It is just a spring and plunger. It probably seemed a good idea at the time.

Stan

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Jim Henningsen
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 6:19 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] TR3A Questions

Hello list.  Two questions for the collective expertise.  1961 TR3A.

1.  What are the disadvantages of NOT putting a thermostat in the engine in Florida?  I found out that the prev owner did not put one in.  So I installed a new bellows type and it raises my normal operating temp from just under 185 at idle to about 200+.  I verified it is working in pot of hot water.  Opens at 180.  I have a stock water pump, new aluminum radiator and yellow plastic fan on backwards as standard upgrade. Thinking that it is
restricting water flow.   I am considering pulling thermostat and running
without one and installing 6 blade water pump upgrade that I just got from Moss.  Could also be the temp gauge but haven't verified.  

2. on my hydraulic brake lines, I have a restrictor valve assembly (part number 116197 - pg 54 of parts manual), like my early TR4. Installed just before 5 way connector on passenger side frame near front tire.  My brakes drag a little and it isn't the rear drum adjust.  I had heard that the valve assembly can cause that outcome when faulty.  I also heard it is ok to remove it and just attach the brake line to the 5 way connector.  Any thoughts on doing this?

Thanks,
Jim Henningsen
Ocala, FL
61 TR3A
62 TR4
75 TR6

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:11:38 -0500

1. The need for more hardware, 6-vane pump, just indicates a bigger problem.   I am assuming you are using the car for a fairly normal style of driving.  You can try just pulling the stat to eliminate it as a problem.  But, my opinion is that you have some significant blockage in the block, assumed your current pump is good.  Have done any flushing and back -flushing?  

2. The valve is supposed to keep the pads/shoes close but not drag as to be restrictive.   On a previous car I bypassed it as I thought it was causing a problem at one wheel only to learn the real problem was a crushed brake line at that wheel.   Didn’t notice any difference running without it.  

Bill 

Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X

On Apr 9, 2019, at 5:19 PM, Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]> wrote:

1.  What are the disadvantages of NOT putting a thermostat in the engine in
Florida?  I found out that the prev owner did not put one in.  So I
installed a new bellows type and it raises my normal operating temp from
just under 185 at idle to about 200+.  I verified it is working in pot of
hot water.  Opens at 180.  I have a stock water pump, new aluminum radiator
and yellow plastic fan on backwards as standard upgrade. Thinking that it is
restricting water flow.   I am considering pulling thermostat and running
without one and installing 6 blade water pump upgrade that I just got from
Moss.  Could also be the temp gauge but haven't verified.  

2. on my hydraulic brake lines, I have a restrictor valve assembly (part
number 116197 - pg 54 of parts manual), like my early TR4. Installed just
before 5 way connector on passenger side frame near front tire.  My brakes
drag a little and it isn't the rear drum adjust.  I had heard that the valve
assembly can cause that outcome when faulty.  I also heard it is ok to
remove it and just attach the brake line to the 5 way connector.  Any
thoughts on doing this?

Thanks,
Jim Henningsen
Ocala, FL 
61 TR3A
62 TR4
75 TR6

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:11:38 -0500

Bill 

Thanks,
Jim Henningsen
Ocala, FL 
61 TR3A
62 TR4
75 TR6

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2019 19:27:11 -0700

> 1.  What are the disadvantages of NOT putting a thermostat in 
> the engine in Florida?

For one thing, it makes it really tough to get the mixture adjusted
properly.  Running too rich wastes fuel and may lead to more rapid engine
wear.

>  I found out that the prev owner did 
> not put one in.  So I installed a new bellows type and it 
> raises my normal operating temp from just under 185 at idle 
> to about 200+.  I verified it is working in pot of hot water. 
>  Opens at 180.

Original type bellows thermostat should start to open around 160, not 180.
(70C, 158F per workshop manual)  They open slow, full open isn't until 197F
(again per the manual)

> Could also be the temp gauge but haven't 
> verified.  

Sounds like the most likely culprit to me.  FWIW, while it doesn't get quite
as hot here as FL, I run an ordinary wax pellet type thermostat, and have no
overheating problems at all, even with outside temps over 110F.  (Somewhere
around 115F, the driver overheats.)  I do have a few other improvements,
though, including electric fan, no crank hole in the recored original
radiator, and a coolant recovery bottle.

> My brakes drag a 
> little and it isn't the rear drum adjust.  I had heard that 
> the valve assembly can cause that outcome when faulty.

Actually, I believe it causes them to drag lightly even when it is working
correctly.  I always found it annoying that the car wouldn't roll freely
after I took my foot off the pedal.

> I also heard it is ok to remove it and just attach the brake 
> line to the 5 way connector.  Any thoughts on doing this?

You'll probably need to replace the line, the stock line isn't long enough
to reach the extra 2" or so.  I've also heard rumors that some 5-way
connectors were not machined to accept a brake line from above (mine have
been, but I've only owned earlier cars).  What I did instead was to remove
the internals from the valve, and put the housing back in place.
https://i.imgur.com/ISB0yMy.jpg

The downside of removing or disabling the valve (which is more accurately a
residual pressure valve, not a simple restriction) is that you may get a low
brake pedal after "spirited" driving.  It can be rather disconcerting if you
are not expecting it!

But, at least in my experience, it doesn't go all the way to the floor. I
can always get brakes by just pushing the pedal down farther.  And it comes
up right away.  I've gotten into the habit of kind of testing the brakes
after taking a hard curve, just to bring it back up.

A better solution is probably to fit the uprated spindles and spacers.
Originally developed by "uncle jack" (IIRC), they are now available from
TRF.
http://trf.zeni.net/TR6-TR250GB/191.php

I've got a set on the shelf, just haven't found that particular round tuit
yet.

-- Randall

---

From: James Henningsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 06:57:20 -0400

Randall:
You are always amazing.  It’s like getting g feedback from a Triumph service technician. 
Thank you.  
Jim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 9, 2019, at 10:27 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>