Subject: Re: [TR] By the Way

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 13:53:36 -0500

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Check your grounds, given the weather an iffy ground could go bad.=20
Bill

Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X

On Apr 10, 2019, at 10:06 AM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:

By the way.  Yesterday morning top down, the windshield wipers did a great j=
ob scraping the snow off the windshield (well, on the outside, anyway). =20

Then they didn't.

Directionals worked fine.

Then they didn't. =20

Since I was on my way to be inspected, and these things needed to be operati=
onal, I stopped in a drugstore parking lot to look into the issue.  Not a ba=
d location, all things considered.  They have various forms of anesthesia th=
ere, including beer, in case things went south on repairs.

Checked the fuses.  Surprise.  They at least inspected as fine.  Now what?

Turned off the heater, then sat back to think.  Which is when I noticed the b=
linkers working.  Tried the wipers, they worked too. =20

Violates all the rules of electrics I was trained in.  The heater apparently=
 sucked the juice from the wipers and blinkers, yet didn't blow the fuse.  I=
'll have to do some digging to figure out what exactly I botched in the wiri=
ng.  But curious.

Got the inspection sticker, though.

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A

New Hampshire

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive

ash.net

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Check your grounds, given the weather an if=
fy ground could go bad.&nbsp;<div>Bill<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"=
 dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Apr 10,=
 2019, at 10:06 AM, TERRY SMITH &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">t=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">

    <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
<p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; colo=
r: rgb(51, 51, 51);">By the way.&nbsp; Yesterday morning top down, the winds=
hield wipers did a great job scraping the snow off the windshield (well, on t=
he outside, anyway).&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family=
: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D=
"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 5=
1, 51);">Then they didn't.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helv=
etica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-=
size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51=
);">Directionals worked fine.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: h=
elvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51,=
 51);">Then they didn't.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fa=
mily: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(=
51, 51, 51);">Since I was on my way to be inspected, and these things needed=
 to be operational, I stopped in a drugstore parking lot to look into the is=
sue.&nbsp; Not a bad location, all things considered.&nbsp; They have variou=
s forms of anesthesia there, including beer, in case things went south on re=
pairs.</p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-fam=
ily: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Checked the fuse=
s.&nbsp; Surprise.&nbsp; They at least inspected as fine.&nbsp; Now what?</p=
><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helv=
etica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Turned off the heater, th=
en sat back to think.&nbsp; Which is when I noticed the blinkers working.&nb=
sp; Tried the wipers, they worked too.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p><p style=3D"font-size:=
 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><=
br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-seri=
f; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Violates all the rules of electrics I was traine=
d in.&nbsp; The heater apparently sucked the juice from the wipers and blink=
ers, yet didn't blow the fuse.&nbsp; I'll have to do some digging to figure o=
ut what exactly I botched in the wiring.&nbsp; But curious.</p><p style=3D"f=
ont-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51=
, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, s=
ans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Got the inspection sticker, though.</p><=
p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color=
: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></p><p style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvet=
ica, arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Terry Smith, '59 TR3A</p><p=
 style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color:=
 rgb(51, 51, 51);">New Hampshire</p>
 </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 15:38:48 -0700

> Turned off the heater, then sat back to think.  Which is when 
> I noticed the blinkers working.  Tried the wipers, they worked too.  

So you've got a bad connection or two, somewhere.  Possibly it (or they)
make contact when cold, but have just a bit of resistance so it gets hot
under use and either opens up entirely, or goes high enough resistance to
keep the wipers and/or turn signals from working.

One thing to try is running the wipers in your driveway for awhile, then
feeling along the wires and especially connections that lead to them.  If
something is warm to the touch, you've found the problem.  The fuse block is
a likely problem spot, but could be almost anywhere along either the power
circuit to the wiper motor, or the ground circuit from the motor through the
switch on the instrument panel.

The ground wire to the instrument panel is another likely suspect, just
because it is common between the wipers and the turn indicator on the panel.
It should run out to the 'E' terminal on the control box, where it joins
with another wire to the body nearby.

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 21:13:12 -0400

I like Randall's line of thinking, but first:  [Warning: Engineer talk
ahead]  If the heater is running and nothing works, then it all works
when the heater is off, I'd suspect a common ground or supply wire
such that, when the heater switch is energized, it raises the
potential of the ground that's common to wipers and blinkers to 12V,
therefore preventing them from working.  When the heater is off, those
items can ground (through the heater somehow?) and operate.

Either a ground got left off, or is misconnected somewhere that's hot
when the heater is on, but grounds when it's off (through the heater
motor, probably).   Look between the heater switch and the heater.
Try feeling the heater motor to see if it tries to spin while the
wipers are working.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 8:05 PM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: Greg Lemon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 23:34:53 -0500

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A funny by the way story related to this, but not related to cars, being a
DIY guy I often talked to a friendly electrician in the office building I
worked in about electrical issues in the AC world (home and office).  He
talked about touching the wires to detect hot spots/possible issues.  While
I can see doing this on a car, I really don't think I would want to touch
suspect 120 or 220 volt wiring on purpose to see if anything was wrong.

Zapped way too many times to really want to do it again.

Greg Lemon

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 5:52 PM Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

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<div dir=3D"auto">A funny by the way story related to this, but not related=
 to cars, being a DIY guy I often talked to a friendly electrician in the o=
ffice building I worked in about electrical issues in the AC world (home an=
d office).=C2=A0 He talked about touching the wires to detect hot spots/pos=
sible issues.=C2=A0 While I can see doing this on a car, I really don&#39;t=
 think I would want to touch suspect 120 or 220 volt wiring on purpose to s=
ee if anything was=C2=A0wrong.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Zapped way too many times to really want to do it again.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon</div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 5:5=
2 PM Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; Turned off the=
 heater, then sat back to think.=C2=A0 Which is when <br>
&gt; I noticed the blinkers working.=C2=A0 Tried the wipers, they worked to=
o.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
So you&#39;ve got a bad connection or two, somewhere.=C2=A0 Possibly it (or=
 they)<br>
make contact when cold, but have just a bit of resistance so it gets hot<br=
under use and either opens up entirely, or goes high enough resistance to<b=
r>
keep the wipers and/or turn signals from working.<br>
<br>
One thing to try is running the wipers in your driveway for awhile, then<br=
feeling along the wires and especially connections that lead to them.=C2=A0=
 If<br>
something is warm to the touch, you&#39;ve found the problem.=C2=A0 The fus=
e block is<br>
a likely problem spot, but could be almost anywhere along either the power<=
br>
circuit to the wiper motor, or the ground circuit from the motor through th=
e<br>
switch on the instrument panel.<br>
<br>
The ground wire to the instrument panel is another likely suspect, just<br>
because it is common between the wipers and the turn indicator on the panel=
.<br>
It should run out to the &#39;E&#39; terminal on the control box, where it =
joins<br>
with another wire to the body nearby.<br>
<br>
-- Randall <br>
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver<br>
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild<br>
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild <br>
<br>
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