Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Timing question

From: Chris Simo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 20:41:57 -0500

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tdc on the pulley should be 180 out from the crank woodruff key. I have
managed to put the pulley on wrong at least once and also stabbed the dizzy
a tooth or more off only to forget and wonder why i couldn't static time
much later.....

Sent from my TRASH-80

On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:16 PM TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:

> lessee if i remember right.  the pully mounts to a flange via 6 bolts.
> the flange itself is keyed and mounts to the crankshaft, meaning you can
> only mount the flange one way using the key, but can bugger the placement
> of the little timing hole on the back half of the pully some six differen=
t
> ways.  ...or is it 5....
>
> messing up placement of the timing mark on the back half of the pully is
> very easy to do.  ask me know.  better yet, don't remind me....
>
> terry smith
> new hampshire
>
>
> > On February 28, 2019 at 11:30 AM [email-masked] wrote:
> >
> >
> > It's more likely that the distributor drive gear is off by a tooth or
> two than the pulley being put on wrong.
> >
> > There is only 1 way to get the pulley on and no opportunity to mess it
> up.  The drive gear has a 10 or more teeth on it, and therefore 10 or mor=
e
> opportunities to get it wrong.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of
> [email-masked]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 6:39 AM
> > To: Randall <[email-masked]>
> > Cc: [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Timing question
> >
> > Thanks Randall,
> > 40=C2=B0 was just a guess, the mark is about at the 2:00 position.  I a=
m
> using the hole in the pulley as the TDC mark, there is also a file mark
> there.
> >
> > I turned the dizzy clockwise until it started to stumble, then brought
> it back to the best smooth RPM position.   First road test was great,
> compression at 175 across 4.  Can I leave it there?  If not, what should =
I
> be looking for?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X
> >
> > On Feb 28, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds to me like your TDC marks are wrong.
> >
> > If the issue is the front pulley being assembled wrong, it would be off
> by
> > 60 degrees, and so you're still about 20 degrees fast.  That is likely
> to be an issue.
> >
> > 40 late isn't going to work well either.
> >
> > > Had set the dizzy to open with the marks at TDC, not happening.  So I
> > > advanced it a whole bunch till the car would start.  Put a light on i=
t
> > > and, by the marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded at a nice smooth i=
dle
> > > and the dizzy is in a very
> > > normal position.   How does that happen?   Is the only fix to
> > > pull the front of the engine and relocate the hub?
> > >
> > > Will it hurt anything to drive it as is?
> >
> >
> > ** [email-masked] **
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
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> >
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<div dir=3D"auto">tdc on the pulley should be 180 out from the crank woodru=
ff key. I have managed to put the pulley on wrong at least once and also st=
abbed the dizzy a tooth or more off only to forget and wonder why i couldn&=
#39;t static time much later.....<br><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signa=
ture">Sent from my TRASH-80</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:16 PM TERRY SMITH =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">lessee if i remember right.=C2=
=A0 the pully mounts to a flange via 6 bolts.=C2=A0 the flange itself is ke=
yed and mounts to the crankshaft, meaning you can only mount the flange one=
 way using the key, but can bugger the placement of the little timing hole =
on the back half of the pully some six different ways.=C2=A0 ...or is it 5.=
...<br>
<br>
messing up placement of the timing mark on the back half of the pully is ve=
ry easy to do.=C2=A0 ask me know.=C2=A0 better yet, don&#39;t remind me....=
<br>
<br>
terry smith<br>
new hampshire<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On February 28, 2019 at 11:30 AM <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; It&#39;s more likely that the distributor drive gear is off by a tooth=
 or two than the pulley being put on wrong.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; There is only 1 way to get the pulley on and no opportunity to mess it=
 up.=C2=A0 The drive gear has a 10 or more teeth on it, and therefore 10 or=
 more opportunities to get it wrong.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; On Behalf Of <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 6:39 AM<br>
&gt; To: Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Timing question<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thanks Randall,<br>
&gt; 40=C2=B0 was just a guess, the mark is about at the 2:00 position.=C2=
=A0 I am using the hole in the pulley as the TDC mark, there is also a file=
 mark there.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I turned the dizzy clockwise until it started to stumble, then brought=
 it back to the best smooth RPM position.=C2=A0 =C2=A0First road test was g=
reat, compression at 175 across 4.=C2=A0 Can I leave it there?=C2=A0 If not=
, what should I be looking for?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Bill<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Feb 28, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TR3driver@c=
a.rr.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Sounds to me like your TDC marks are wrong.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; If the issue is the front pulley being assembled wrong, it would be of=
f by<br>
&gt; 60 degrees, and so you&#39;re still about 20 degrees fast.=C2=A0 That =
is likely to be an issue.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 40 late isn&#39;t going to work well either.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Had set the dizzy to open with the marks at TDC, not happening.=
=C2=A0 So I <br>
&gt; &gt; advanced it a whole bunch till the car would start.=C2=A0 Put a l=
ight on it <br>
&gt; &gt; and, by the marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded at a nice smoo=
th idle <br>
&gt; &gt; and the dizzy is in a very<br>
&gt; &gt; normal position.=C2=A0 =C2=A0How does that happen?=C2=A0 =C2=A0Is=
 the only fix to <br>
&gt; &gt; pull the front of the engine and relocate the hub?<br>
&gt; &gt; <br>
&gt; &gt; Will it hurt anything to drive it as is?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
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From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:59:50 -0600

Moving the distributor drive gear will change the orientation of the 
distributor but won't change where the timing mark on the pulley is when 
the spark fires and the engine is running right. It'll still look 40ish 
degrees off.  The only thing that will fix that is messing with the 
front pulley to get the timing mark for TDC to actually BE at TDC.  The 
hub is keyed to the crank so the hub only has one position.  If the 
pulley has bolts holding it together as at least one other lister 
mentioned that's a likely source.

Like Randall says - if it runs good and doesn't ping or run on / 
overheat, stop messing with it.

Regards, Tony

On 2/28/2019 11:35 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
> Thanks to all who responded with good thoughts.  Because this motor was in such good shape when I got it I did not pull it apart.  I like the idea that it is the distributor drive, will move it a tooth at a time and see.
> All the best,
> Bill
>
> On Feb 28, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> As long as it doesn't ping or overheat, it should be OK.
>
>> I turned the dizzy clockwise until it started to stumble,
>> then brought it back to the best smooth RPM position.   First
>> road test was great, compression at 175 across 4.  Can I
>> leave it there?  If not, what should I be looking for?
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:13:17 -0800

Right.  Changing the distributor gear will change where the body of the
distributor goes to make it run; but won't do anything for the TDC mark
being off.  Like Alex said, the spark to #1 has to be happening when #1 is
close to TDC, or it won't run.  The engine doesn't "know" where the marks
are, or which way the distributor points, it only cares about the
relationship of the spark to piston position.

If you want to double-check, shine a light down the #1 spark plug hole and
watch for the piston to come up where you can see it.  Not very accurate,
but good enough for this.

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 

> Randall,
> To get the timing marks to align, the distributor had to be 
> turned about 1/8th turn clockwise.  That is where I static 
> timed it before attempting to start it.  Then I put it back 
> to a more normal position and it fired right up.  If I mess 
> with the gear, won't that foul the distributor positioning?  
> I'm think the answer may be in re-setting the pulley back by 1/6th.  
> Bill
>

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 08:02:01 -0700

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On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 7:35 PM [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ...Put a light on it and, by the marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded a=
t a
> nice smooth idle and the dizzy is in a very normal position.   How does
> that happen?...
>

Just to check the obvious - if your timing light has an advance knob be
sure it is set to zero.

More than once I have been alarmed by wacky timing only to realize I had
the knob set to some high advance.

Geo

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 7:35 PM <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbe=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
...Put a light on it and, by the marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded at =
a nice smooth idle and the dizzy is in a very normal position.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
How does that happen?...<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just to check =
the obvious - if your timing light has an advance knob be sure it is set to=
 zero.</div><div><br></div><div>More than once I have been alarmed by wacky=
 timing only to realize I had the knob set to some high advance.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Geo=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 10:37:20 -0600

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Yes Geo, BTDT too.  Looking at it this morning it does appear that the next p=
ulley bolt over is aligned with the pointer.  Moving it back one hole should=
 fix it, =F0=9F=A4=9E, stay tuned for details. =20
Bill

On Mar 1, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Geo Hahn <[email-masked]> wrote:

=20
> ..Put a light on it and, by the marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded at a=
 nice smooth idle and the dizzy is in a very normal position.   How does tha=
t happen?...

Just to check the obvious - if your timing light has an advance knob be sure=
 it is set to zero.

More than once I have been alarmed by wacky timing only to realize I had the=
 knob set to some high advance.

Geo=20=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Yes Geo, BTDT too. &nbsp;Looking at it this=
 morning it does appear that the next pulley bolt over is aligned with the p=
ointer. &nbsp;Moving it back one hole should fix it, =F0=9F=A4=9E, stay tune=
d for details. &nbsp;<div>Bill<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"=
ltr">Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Mar 1, 2019, at=
 9:02 AM, Geo Hahn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ahwahneetr@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 7:35 PM <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">wbeech@flash=
.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>&nbsp;</div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">..Put a light on it and, by th=
e marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded at a nice smooth idle and the dizzy=
 is in a very normal position.&nbsp; &nbsp;How does that happen?...<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>Just to check the obvious - if your timing light=
 has an advance knob be sure it is set to zero.</div><div><br></div><div>Mor=
e than once I have been alarmed by wacky timing only to realize I had the kn=
ob set to some high advance.</div><div><br></div><div>Geo&nbsp;</div></div><=
/div>
</div></div></body></html>=

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 13:32:14 -0600

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Thanks to everyone for the good suggestions and open discussion, this is how=
 problems get solved. =20

This morning I moved the back plate of the pulley, with the timing mark, one=
 hole over.  Put a light on it afterwards and confirmed that I had it dead o=
n at 4=C2=B0 BTDC without the light.  Could have left well enough alone but i=
t=E2=80=99s good to know. =20

All the best,
Bill B
TS30800L

On Mar 1, 2019, at 10:37 AM, [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 7:35 PM [email-masked] <wbeech@flashnet> wrote:
=20

Geo=20=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks to everyone for the=
 good suggestions and open discussion, this is how problems get solved. &nbs=
p;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">This morning I moved the=
 back plate of the pulley, with the timing mark, one hole over. &nbsp;Put a l=
ight on it afterwards and confirmed that I had it dead on at 4=C2=B0 BTDC wi=
thout the light. &nbsp;Could have left well enough alone but it=E2=80=99s go=
od to know. &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">All the b=
est,</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bill B</div><div dir=3D"ltr">TS30800L</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mar 1, 2019, at 10:37 AM, <a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@=
flash.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><me=
ta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Yes Ge=
o, BTDT too. &nbsp;Looking at it this morning it does appear that the next p=
ulley bolt over is aligned with the pointer. &nbsp;Moving it back one hole s=
hould fix it, =F0=9F=A4=9E, stay tuned for details. &nbsp;<div>Bill<br><br><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my DynaTAC 8000X</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Mar 1=
, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Geo Hahn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ahw=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 7:35 PM <a href=3D"mailto:Wbeec=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">wb=
eech@flashnet</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>&nbsp;=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">..Put a light on it a=
nd, by the marks, it looks like 40=C2=B0 retarded at a nice smooth idle and t=
he dizzy is in a very normal position.&nbsp; &nbsp;How does that happen?...<=
br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just to check the obvious - if your timi=
ng light has an advance knob be sure it is set to zero.</div><div><br></div>=
<div>More than once I have been alarmed by wacky timing only to realize I ha=
d the knob set to some high advance.</div><div><br></div><div>Geo&nbsp;</div=
></div></div>
</div></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 11:18:55 -0700

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On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 12:32 PM [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ...Could have left well enough alone but it=E2=80=99s good to know...
>

The next owner will thank you -- or at least not curse you.

Geo

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 12:32 PM <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbe=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">...Could have left well enough alone but=
 it=E2=80=99s good to know...</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>T=
he next owner will thank you -- or at least not curse you.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Geo=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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