Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

From: "Kinderlehrer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:31:14 -0700

I was very happy with the work Joe Curto did on my carbs.
Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Jim
Henningsen
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 4:40 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down.  Finally got around to
getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture.  After new kits, testing
piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and spending
two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.  The carbs aren't running
smoothly.  There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala.  Any
recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two to have them checked
professionally.  

Joe Curto?
Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a response from him.
Buy new (ouch)
Others?  

Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL
61 TR3A  eager to enjoy driving it in fall in Florida
62 TR4 eager to have restoration finished
75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put in
82 Jeep ld reliable - get in and go
2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out and be used.

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 20:00:09 -0700

Jim - I'd check with a club in your area.  See 
http://www.mossmotoring.com/british-car-club/ as a sample that came up 
in a search.  There is an MG club in your city.  Not sure if any of the 
Triumph clubs are near by.  You might be able to find a local club 
member to help you out or recommend a local mechanic.

When I got my TR6, I went to a local British mechanic and he got the car 
better, but after just a few minutes with a very experienced club 
member, the carbs were great.

Brian

On 10/15/2018 4:40 PM, Jim Henningsen wrote:
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 23:23:23 -0400

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ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'  ?

Engine is not smooth?.. sputtering?  not running smooth while cruising?

An old adage.... (well two actually)
"..most carb problems are electrical..."  and "..most ignition problems 
are the carbs"

Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at 
idle? One of those little flow meters?
NOPE NADA STOP right there.   Think about it...you're sealing off the 
air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the 
balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the 
fuel pull.

I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning 
more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel line as 
a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against the edge 
(not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me you can 
hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the 
fuel flow!   Years ago I actually gave away my flow gauges.

Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to 
replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the 
same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke 
out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed 
throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC 
lists....still to no avail.  Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy 
with an identical setup.... open big round K&Ns and a end plate but had 
his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape.  In the end, the 
problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the 
piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.

hhmmm.... ok...
http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm

<http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm>

ptegler <http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm>

On 10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

-- 
Paul Tegler
[email-masked]  www.teglerizer.com

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  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'  ?</p>
    <p>Engine is not smooth?.. sputtering?  not running smooth while
      cruising?</p>
    <p>An old adage.... (well two actually)<br>
      "..most carb problems are electrical..."  and "..most ignition
      problems are the carbs"</p>
    <p>Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air
      flow at idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>
      NOPE NADA STOP right there.   Think about it...you're sealing off
      the air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle
      changes....so the balance tube in the manifold sucks from the
      other carb, bypassing the fuel pull.</p>
    <p>I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from
      tuning more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4"
      fuel line as a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just
      up against the edge (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal
      air... and believe me you can hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but
      you can also hear the gurgle of the fuel flow!   Years ago I
      actually gave away my flow gauges.</p>
    <p>Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to
      replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL
      had the same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap.
      Pull the choke out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at
      closed or low speed throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of
      messages on various LBC lists....still to no avail.  Than one day
      at a car show.... I saw a guy with an identical setup.... open big
      round K&amp;Ns and a end plate but had his air filters nearly 3/4
      closed off with duct tape.  In the end, the problem was incorrect
      vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the piston was
      mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.</p>
    <p>hhmmm.... ok...<br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm</a></p>
    <p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm"><br>
      </a></p>
    <p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">ptegler</a><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <pre wrap="">Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down.  Finally got around to
getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture.  After new kits, testing
piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and spending
two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.  The carbs aren't running
smoothly.  There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala.  Any
recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two to have them checked
professionally.  

Joe Curto?

Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL

** <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Paul Tegler
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.teglerizer.com">www.teglerizer.com</a></pre>
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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:14:51 +0100

I'll chime in with another comment on carb issues which others may not support, but it was given to me by Ray Henderson (Triumph Experimental and Competition Dept). Before attempting any kind of carb adjustment, unless your valve clearances and ignition settings aren't exactly spot-on, you can have 'carb issues' which in reality aren't carb issues. The hose pipe to ear method for air intake volume may sound rather belt and braces, but it's a technique that's been used in the UK by mechanics on SU's (and later Strombergs) for at least the last eighty years! Sometimes the old fashioned way is often the best solution.

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Brian Kemp
Sent: 16 October 2018 04:00
To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

Jim - I'd check with a club in your area.  See http://www.mossmotoring.com/british-car-club/ as a sample that came up in a search.  There is an MG club in your city.  Not sure if any of the Triumph clubs are near by.  You might be able to find a local club member to help you out or recommend a local mechanic.

When I got my TR6, I went to a local British mechanic and he got the car better, but after just a few minutes with a very experienced club member, the carbs were great.

Brian

On 10/15/2018 4:40 PM, Jim Henningsen wrote:
> Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down.  Finally got around 
> to getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture.  After new 
> kits, testing piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great 
> clip), and spending two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.  The 
> carbs aren't running smoothly.  There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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From: TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:00:55 -0400 (EDT)

Also wondering if mayhaps there's a vacuum leak?

Terry

> On October 16, 2018 at 7:14 AM John Macartney <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> 
> 
> ---
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:52:08 -0400

Thanks for the recommendation. Jim

-----Original Message-----

Joe Curto?

Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL

---

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:53:51 -0400

I'm in the Central Florida Triumph Register based near Orlando.  We have a TR guru in the group who is building my TR6 engine as we speak.  For something like this he would need to have the car in his shop and its about two hours away.  I will talk with him and see what he thinks.  
Thanks,
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Kemp <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 11:00 PM
To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

Brian

---

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:07:17 -0400

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Paul:

Great discussion thread on your web link.  You are right it could be 100 =
different things.  It ran much better before the carb rebuild so I am =
thinking it is in the carbs.  I may go back and check all steps again =
and eliminate steps one by one.  Such fun normally, except I am eager to =
get back on the road as the weather turned nicer in FL.

Jim

=20

From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 11:23 PM
To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

=20

An old adage.... (well two actually)
"..most carb problems are electrical..."  and "..most ignition problems =
are the carbs"

Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?
NOPE NADA STOP right there.   Think about it...you're sealing off the =
air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the =
balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the =
fuel pull.

I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning =
more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel line as =
a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against the edge =
(not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me you can =
hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the =
fuel flow!   Years ago I actually gave away my flow gauges.

Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to =
replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the =
same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke =
out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed =
throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC =
lists....still to no avail.  Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy =
with an identical setup.... open big round K&Ns and a end plate but had =
his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape.  In the end, the =
problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the =
piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.

hhmmm.... ok...

 <http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm>=20

ptegler <http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm>=20

=20

=20

Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down.  Finally got around to
getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture.  After new kits, =
testing
piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and =
spending
two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.  The carbs aren't running
smoothly.  There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala.  Any
recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two to have them checked
professionally. =20
=20
Joe Curto?
Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a response from him.
Buy new (ouch)
Others? =20
=20
Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL
61 TR3A  eager to enjoy driving it in fall in Florida
62 TR4 eager to have restoration finished
75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put in
82 Jeep ld reliable - get in and go
2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out and be used.
 =20
=20
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  =
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
=20

--=20
Paul Tegler
<http://www.teglerizer.com>=20

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lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Paul:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Great =
discussion thread on your web link.=C2=A0 You are right it could be 100 =
different things.=C2=A0 It ran much better before the carb rebuild so I =
am thinking it is in the carbs.=C2=A0 I may go back and check all steps =
again and eliminate steps one by one.=C2=A0 Such fun normally, except I =
am eager to get back on the road as the weather turned nicer in =
FL.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Jim<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Paul Tegler =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 15, 2018 =
11:23 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jim Henningsen &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb =
Issues<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p>ok....what do you mean by =
'carbs aren't running smoothly'&nbsp; ?<o:p></o:p></p><p>Engine is not =
smooth?.. sputtering?&nbsp; not running smooth while =
cruising?<o:p></o:p></p><p>An old adage.... (well two =
actually)<br>&quot;..most carb problems are electrical...&quot;&nbsp; =
and &quot;..most ignition problems are the =
carbs&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p>Seriously though.... what method didyou use =
to balance the air flow at idle? One of those little flow =
meters?<br>NOPE NADA STOP right there.&nbsp;&nbsp; Think about =
it...you're sealing off the air to get the bubble to rise so of course =
the idle changes....so the balance tube in the manifold sucks from the =
other carb, bypassing the fuel pull.<o:p></o:p></p><p>I was finally =
convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning more SU and ZS =
carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4&quot; fuel line as a =
stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against the edge =
(not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me you can =
hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the =
fuel flow!&nbsp;&nbsp; Years ago I actually gave away my flow =
gauges.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand =
new NOS SU carbs to replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. =
BUT...STILL had the same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like =
crap. Pull the choke out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at =
closed or low speed throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on =
various LBC lists....still to no avail.&nbsp; Than one day at a car =
show.... I saw a guy with an identical setup.... open big round K&amp;Ns =
and a end plate but had his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct =
tape.&nbsp; In the end, the problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not =
enough air velocity when the piston was mid/down as there was no =
restriction from the air filters.<o:p></o:p></p><p>hhmmm.... ok...<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">http:/=
/www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm</a><o:p></o:p></p><p>=
<a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm"><br></=
a><o:p></o:p></p><p><a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">ptegle=
r</a><o:p></o:p></p><p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Ok, I thought I had =
this rebuild all nailed down.=C2=A0 Finally got around =
to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>getting carbs balanced and set for correct =
mixture.=C2=A0 After new kits, testing<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>piston drop =
timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and =
spending<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>two hours fine tuning air flow and =
mixture.=C2=A0 The carbs aren't =
running<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>smoothly.=C2=A0 There is something not =
right and I am throwing in the towel.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Don't have a =
reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala.=C2=A0 =
Any<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>recommendations on a rebuilder to send these =
two to have them checked<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>professionally.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Joe =
Curto?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a =
response from him.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Buy new =
(ouch)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Others?=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Thanks in =
advance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Jim Henningsen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Ocala =
FL<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>61 TR3A=C2=A0 eager to enjoy driving it in fall =
in Florida<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>62 TR4 eager to have restoration =
finished<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put =
in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>82 Jeep ld reliable - get in and =
go<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out =
and be used.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>** <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
**<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=
t">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a>=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>-- =
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Paul Tegler<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com">www.teglerizer.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre=
></div></body></html>
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From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:11:34 -0400

Everything was running smooth before the rebuild.  The choke wouldn't pull out easily at all and it leaked a little oil.  So I decided to pull the carbs and install a kit as the seals were quite old based on prev owner service.  I do have the stethoscope for the car to listen.  I don’t think it is the balancing of air flow.  With old cars, I know anything can happen somewhere else (points, plugs, wires, fuel, vacuum leak etc.) that can cause a new issue even if you didn't touch those systems.  Looks like its time to test all systems again step by step.
Thanks for the note.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: John Macartney <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 7:15 AM
To: 'Brian Kemp' <[email-masked]>; 'Jim Henningsen' <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Brian Kemp
Sent: 16 October 2018 04:00
To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

Brian

---

---

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:15:06 -0400

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Yes, tightening down the throttle linkage is a very delicate operation =
as in most times if you don=E2=80=99t hold down both throttles the mere =
tightening of the clamps increases the rpm.  Learned that one the hard =
way even though it says it in the service manual.  I also agree on the =
syncrometer.  This is a good meter from Goodparts and measures the same =
suction with device on each carb.  I routinely tweak the throttle a =
little bit to get each carb set in between tests.

Jim

=20

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 7:35 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

=20

=20

=20

What are you talking about?  Sure you affect airflow with the airflow =
meter but you are affecting both carbs equally when you switch from carb =
to carb.  If you get the same reading from both they are being effected =
the same and have the same starting point.  The concept that the human =
ear is better than an instrument specifically designed to measure =
airflow is pure hubris.

=20

One thing to watch out for is assuming that since the carbs are balanced =
at idle they are balanced under throttle.  Be very careful when =
tightening down the linkage to ensure that both carbs open =
simultaneously.  This is particularly important on the TR6-style linkage =
that has built-in disengagement zones.

=20

=20

Dave Massey

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 3:16 am
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

hhmmm.... ok...

=20

ptegler

=20

=20

=20

--=20
Paul Tegler

=20

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, tightening down the throttle linkage is a very =
delicate operation as in most times if you don=E2=80=99t hold down both =
throttles the mere tightening of the clamps increases the rpm.=C2=A0 =
Learned that one the hard way even though it says it in the service =
manual.=C2=A0 I also agree on the syncrometer.=C2=A0 This is a good =
meter from Goodparts and measures the same suction with device on each =
carb.=C2=A0 I routinely tweak the throttle a little bit to get each carb =
set in between tests.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jim<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
DAVID MASSEY &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, =
October 16, 2018 7:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]; =
[email-masked]; [email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] =
61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
2.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Ser=
iously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>NOPE NADA STOP right =
there.&nbsp;&nbsp; Think about it...you're sealing off the air to get =
the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the balance tube =
in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the fuel =
pull.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Wha=
t are you talking about?&nbsp; Sure you affect airflow with the airflow =
meter but you are affecting both carbs equally when you switch from carb =
to carb.&nbsp; If you get the same reading from both they are being =
effected the same and have the same starting point.&nbsp; The concept =
that the human ear is better than an instrument specifically designed to =
measure airflow is pure hubris.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>One=
 thing to watch out for is assuming that since the carbs are balanced at =
idle they are balanced under throttle.&nbsp; Be very careful when =
tightening down the linkage to ensure that both carbs open =
simultaneously.&nbsp; This is particularly important on the TR6-style =
linkage that has built-in disengagement =
zones.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Dav=
e Massey</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>---=
--Original Message-----<br>From: Paul Tegler &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To: =
Jim Henningsen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; triumphs =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<b=
r>Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 3:16 am<br>Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 =
Carb Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1.2_b3d72249-8701-4264-8a12-6cac1217176c"><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>ok.=
...what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'&nbsp; =
?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Eng=
ine is not smooth?.. sputtering?&nbsp; not running smooth while =
cruising?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>An =
old adage.... (well two actually)<br>&quot;..most carb problems are =
electrical...&quot;&nbsp; and &quot;..most ignition problems are the =
carbs&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Ser=
iously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at =
idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>NOPE NADA STOP right =
there.&nbsp;&nbsp; Think about it...you're sealing off the air to get =
the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the balance tube =
in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the fuel =
pull.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning =
more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4&quot; fuel =
line as a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against =
the edge (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me =
you can hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle =
of the fuel flow!&nbsp;&nbsp; Years ago I actually gave away my flow =
gauges.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Eon=
s ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to replace =
mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the same =
issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke out =
and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed throttle. =
Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC lists....still to =
no avail.&nbsp; Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy with an =
identical setup.... open big round K&amp;Ns and a end plate but had his =
air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape.&nbsp; In the end, the =
problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the =
piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air =
filters.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>hhm=
mm.... ok...<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">http:/=
/www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>pte=
gler<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed =
down.=C2=A0 Finally got around to<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>getting carbs balanced and set for correct =
mixture.=C2=A0 After new kits, testing<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip =
(great clip), and spending<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.=C2=A0 =
The carbs aren't running<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>smoothly.=C2=A0 There is something not right and I =
am throwing in the towel.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for =
this in Ocala.=C2=A0 Any<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two =
to have them checked<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>professionally.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Joe Curto?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a =
response from him.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Buy new (ouch)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Others?=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Thanks in =
advance<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Jim =
Henningsen<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Ocala =
FL<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>61 TR3A=C2=A0 =
eager to enjoy driving it in fall in =
Florida<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>62 TR4 =
eager to have restoration finished<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put =
in<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>82 Jeep ld =
reliable - get in and go<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out and =
be used.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>** <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =
**<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/piper=
mail/triumphs</a> =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=
t">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a>=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>-- =
<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'>Paul =
Tegler<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'color:black'><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com">www.teglerizer.com</a><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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---

From: William Pugh <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 08:55:20 -0700

--===============1360641700626138269==
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_89BD0618-95D4-4F3B-BF12-9857D74FB2B4"

--Apple-Mail=_89BD0618-95D4-4F3B-BF12-9857D74FB2B4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

In a great book =E2=80=9CHow to fix your British Car=E2=80=9D   The =
chapter on carburetors begins with=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D Carburetor a French =
word for DO NOT TOUCH=E2=80=9D ...

Life is too short
to drive Boring Cars

--Apple-Mail=_89BD0618-95D4-4F3B-BF12-9857D74FB2B4
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">In =
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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:08:01 -0500

I’m with Terry, if everything else is by the book then probably an air leak.  Check to be sure that the jet barrels are fully retracting, even with new ones I polish them with 0000 steel wool first. 

A little more info on just how and under what conditions you are seeing this roughness would be helpful. 

Which is not to say ignore the electrical and valve checks.  When they are confirmed, go back to the carbs.  

Bill B
TS 30800L

Sent from my Handspring Treo

On Oct 16, 2018, at 7:00 AM, TERRY SMITH <[email-masked]> wrote:

Terry

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:11:37 -0500

> Before 
> attempting any kind of carb adjustment, unless your valve 
> clearances and ignition settings aren't exactly spot-on, you 
> can have 'carb issues' which in reality aren't carb issues. 

Amen!  Same goes for compression and valve timing.  Carb adjustment has to
come last!

In fact, my rule of thumb is that if you can't find a nice, clear peak where
even one flat on the mixture nuts makes a difference in the "lift the
piston" test; then there is something else wrong.

-- Randall