Subject: [TR] 59 tr3 brake fluid flush and fill.

From: JOHN BARRON <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 21:26:36 +0000 (UTC)

--===============1100746025809718343==
	boundary="----=_Part_1151002_2008577445.1540502796268"

------=_Part_1151002_2008577445.1540502796268
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?=C2=A0 I need to replace leaking clutch =
m/c and was wondering correct procedure to flush and fill with dot 5 before=
 I do brake line and clutch m/c or just replace parts and then replace brak=
e fluid?=C2=A0=C2=A0The possible had been done The impossible shall be done=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Evil Knievel!

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
------=_Part_1151002_2008577445.1540502796268
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?&nbsp; I need to replace leaking clutch m/c and was wondering correct procedure to flush and fill with dot 5 before I do brake line and clutch m/c or just replace parts and then replace brake fluid?&nbsp;<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502681639">&nbsp;</div><div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502695818">The possible had been done The impossible shall be done&nbsp;</div><div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502749390">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Evil Knievel!<br><br><div id="ymail_android_signature"><a href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&amp;c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&amp;af_wl=ym&amp;af_sub1=Internal&amp;af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&amp;af_sub3=EmailSignature">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div></div>
------=_Part_1151002_2008577445.1540502796268--

--===============1100746025809718343==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

--===============1100746025809718343==--

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 16:56:27 -0700

--===============5393179681003629709==

--0000000000008009eb05792a78a0

Opinions will vary - but I have always (3 cars) just sucked out all the
DOT3/4 I could, filled the reservoir(s) with DOT5 and bled until the fluid
coming out was purple.

Driven many years (20+ in one case) and many tens of thousands of miles
since doing that.

Geo

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 8:27 PM JOHN BARRON <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?  I need to replace leaking clutch m/c
> and was wondering correct procedure to flush and fill with dot 5 before I
> do brake line and clutch m/c or just replace parts and then replace brake
> fluid?
>
> The possible had been done The impossible shall be done
>          Evil Knievel!
>
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

--0000000000008009eb05792a78a0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Opinions will vary - but I have always (3 cars) just sucke=
d out all the DOT3/4 I could, filled the reservoir(s) with DOT5 and bled un=
til the fluid coming out was purple.<div><br></div><div>Driven many years (=
20+ in one case) and many tens of thousands of miles since doing that.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Geo</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 8:27 PM JOHN BARRON &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?=C2=A0 I =
need to replace leaking clutch m/c and was wondering correct procedure to f=
lush and fill with dot 5 before I do brake line and clutch m/c or just repl=
ace parts and then replace brake fluid?=C2=A0<div id=3D"m_67798266588624024=
4yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502681639">=C2=A0</div><div id=3D"m_6779826=
65886240244yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502695818">The possible had been =
done The impossible shall be done=C2=A0</div><div id=3D"m_67798266588624024=
4yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502749390">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0Evil Knievel!<br><br><div id=3D"m_677982665886240244ymail_android_signat=
ure"><a href=3D"https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=3DInProduct&amp;c=3DGlo=
bal_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&amp;af_wl=3Dym&amp;af_su=
b1=3DInternal&amp;af_sub2=3DGlobal_YGrowth&amp;af_sub3=3DEmailSignature" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div></div>** <a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
et</a> **<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>=C2=A0 <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000008009eb05792a78a0--

--===============5393179681003629709==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============5393179681003629709==--

---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 21:06:54 -0500

--===============3798192983312642688==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-86927097-7357-4E47-8B56-96FB395A5934
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-86927097-7357-4E47-8B56-96FB395A5934
	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have only done a couple cars, but did it the same way as Geo, no problems.=
=20
Bill B
TS30800L

Sent from my Handspring Treo

On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:56 PM, Geo Hahn <[email-masked]> wrote:

Opinions will vary - but I have always (3 cars) just sucked out all the DOT3=
/4 I could, filled the reservoir(s) with DOT5 and bled until the fluid comin=
g out was purple.

Driven many years (20+ in one case) and many tens of thousands of miles sinc=
e doing that.

Geo

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 8:27 PM JOHN BARRON <[email-masked]> wro=
te:
> I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?  I need to replace leaking clutch m/c a=
nd was wondering correct procedure to flush and fill with dot 5 before I do b=
rake line and clutch m/c or just replace parts and then replace brake fluid?=
=20
> =20
> The possible had been done The impossible shall be done=20
>          Evil Knievel!
>=20
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archi=
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ahwahne=
[email-masked]

ash.net

--Apple-Mail-86927097-7357-4E47-8B56-96FB395A5934
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">I have only done a couple cars, but did it t=
he same way as Geo, no problems.&nbsp;<div>Bill B</div><div>TS30800L<br><br>=
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"background-color: r=
gba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Sent from my Handspring Treo</span></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><br>On Oct 26, 2018, at 6:56 PM, Geo Hahn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ahwahn=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Opinions will vary - but I have always (3 cars) just s=
ucked out all the DOT3/4 I could, filled the reservoir(s) with DOT5 and bled=
 until the fluid coming out was purple.<div><br></div><div>Driven many years=
 (20+ in one case) and many tens of thousands of miles since doing that.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Geo</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 8:27 PM JOHN BARRON &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?&nbsp; I need=
 to replace leaking clutch m/c and was wondering correct procedure to flush a=
nd fill with dot 5 before I do brake line and clutch m/c or just replace par=
ts and then replace brake fluid?&nbsp;<div id=3D"m_677982665886240244yMail_c=
ursorElementTracker_1540502681639">&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"m_6779826658862402=
44yMail_cursorElementTracker_1540502695818">The possible had been done The i=
mpossible shall be done&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"m_677982665886240244yMail_curs=
orElementTracker_1540502749390">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Evil Kniev=
el!<br><br><div id=3D"m_677982665886240244ymail_android_signature"><a href=3D=
"https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=3DInProduct&amp;c=3DGlobal_Internal_YGr=
owth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&amp;af_wl=3Dym&amp;af_sub1=3DInternal&amp=
;af_sub2=3DGlobal_YGrowth&amp;af_sub3=3DEmailSignature" target=3D"_blank">Se=
nt from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div></div>** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a> **<br>
<br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>&nbsp; <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">t=
[email-masked]</a> **</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></=
span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">h=
ttp://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a></span><br><span></span><br><span=
>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triump=
hs/[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/wbeech@f=
lash.net</a></span><br></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-86927097-7357-4E47-8B56-96FB395A5934--

--===============3798192983312642688==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============3798192983312642688==--

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 04:54:10 -0700

> I want to replace dot 3 with dot 5?  I need to replace 
> leaking clutch m/c and was wondering correct procedure to 
> flush and fill with dot 5 before I do brake line and clutch 
> m/c or just replace parts and then replace brake fluid? 

We have discussed (and re-cussed) that topic many times.  There are several
different camps:

The most extreme is to replace all the seals and lines, cleaning the
cylinders with solvent (as part of replacing the seals).  Rear cylinders may
need to be replaced (inspect the bores for pits); likewise pistons in front
calipers.  Use the "braided SS" soft lines (which are really Teflon inside,
the braid is to protect the Teflon).  

To be honest, I think there is something to be said for this approach;
particularly if any of those components are original.  They don't last
forever, original components are coming up on 60 years old and are bound to
be near the end of their useful lifetime.  If not changed on a regular
basis, DOT 3 becomes corrosive and can weaken even the hard lines.  I have
had one of the soft lines from reservoir to MC snap in my hands (although it
wasn't on my car at the time).

At the other extreme, just fill with DOT 5 (after making any necessary
repairs) and bleed at each bleed screw until no more DOT 3 comes out.  I've
used this approach as well, and it has worked out for me.  IMO it's not as
good as changing everything as above; but still better than continuing to
use DOT 3/4.  There are two downsides: 1) You are still running around with
components that may have been damaged by DOT 3/4 (and are near the end of
their useful life), meaning you will have more failures in the future.

And 2) there will be some DOT 3/4 remaining in the system.  It doesn't all
come out.  It will remain separate from the DOT 5 (they don't mix, kind of
like oil and water) and will continue to deteriorate, eventually turning to
a black goo.  Doesn't seem to be particularly harmful, though.  One oddity,
the leftover DOT 3 will actually suck the purple dye out of the DOT 5!

There is a thoughtful article at
http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Brakes/Fluid/Fluid.htm
That covers all this in far more detail.  

FWIW, that article references two papers presented to the SAE, which can be
found at
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffdnhWS19scjlNUU0

One last point, if you do replace the hard lines, I like the "Cunifer" sets
made by Automec and sold by Moss.  Cunifer is a special copper/nickel/iron
alloy developed specifically for brake use, and championed by Volvo as being
safer than conventional steel line (especially in areas where they use salt
on the roads).  It has the added benefit of being much easier to shape and
bend than steel.
https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

-- Randall 
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild