Subject: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

From: "Jim Henningsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 19:40:21 -0400

Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down.  Finally got around to
getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture.  After new kits, testing
piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and spending
two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.  The carbs aren't running
smoothly.  There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala.  Any
recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two to have them checked
professionally.  

Joe Curto?
Jeff Payla at Paltech - cant seem to get a response from him.
Buy new (ouch)
Others?  

Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL
61 TR3A  eager to enjoy driving it in fall in Florida
62 TR4 eager to have restoration finished
75 TR6 eager to have new race motor put in
82 Jeep ld reliable - get in and go
2002 Triumph Trophy 1200 eager to just get out and be used.

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: DAVID MASSEY <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 07:34:40 -0400

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Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air      flow at idle? One of those little flow meters?
      NOPE NADA STOP right there.   Think about it...you're sealing off      the air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle      changes....so the balance tube in the manifold sucks from the      other carb, bypassing the fuel pull.

 What are you talking about?  Sure you affect airflow with the airflow meter but you are affecting both carbs equally when you switch from carb to carb.  If you get the same reading from both they are being effected the same and have the same starting point.  The concept that the human ear is better than an instrument specifically designed to measure airflow is pure hubris.

One thing to watch out for is assuming that since the carbs are balanced at idle they are balanced under throttle.  Be very careful when tightening down the linkage to ensure that both carbs open simultaneously.  This is particularly important on the TR6-style linkage that has built-in disengagement zones.

Dave Massey

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Tegler <[email-masked]>
To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>; triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 3:16 am
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'  ?
    
Engine is not smooth?.. sputtering?  not running smooth while      cruising?
    
An old adage.... (well two actually)
      "..most carb problems are electrical..."  and "..most ignition      problems are the carbs"
    
Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air      flow at idle? One of those little flow meters?
      NOPE NADA STOP right there.   Think about it...you're sealing off      the air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle      changes....so the balance tube in the manifold sucks from the      other carb, bypassing the fuel pull.
    
I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from      tuning more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4"      fuel line as a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just      up against the edge (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal      air... and believe me you can hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but      you can also hear the gurgle of the fuel flow!   Years ago I      actually gave away my flow gauges.
    
Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to      replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL      had the same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap.      Pull the choke out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at      closed or low speed throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of      messages on various LBC lists....still to no avail.  Than one day      at a car show.... I saw a guy with an identical setup.... open big      round K&Ns and a end plate but had his air filters nearly 3/4      closed off with duct tape.  In the end, the problem was incorrect      vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the piston was      mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.
    
hhmmm.... ok...
      http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm

    
ptegler

On 10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen      wrote:

Joe Curto?

Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL

    

-- 
Paul Tegler
[email-masked]  www.teglerizer.com

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<font color='black' size='3' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">
<div>Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air
      flow at idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>

      NOPE NADA STOP right there.&nbsp;&nbsp; Think about it...you're sealing off
      the air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle
      changes....so the balance tube in the manifold sucks from the
      other carb, bypassing the fuel pull.</div>

<div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <font size="3">What are you talking about?&nbsp; Sure you affect airflow with the airflow meter but you are affecting both carbs equally when you switch from carb to carb.&nbsp; If you get the same reading from both they are being effected the same and have the same starting point.&nbsp; The concept that the human ear is better than an instrument specifically designed to measure airflow is pure hubris.</font></div>

<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size="3">One thing to watch out for is assuming that since the carbs are balanced at idle they are balanced under throttle.&nbsp; Be very careful when tightening down the linkage to ensure that both carbs open simultaneously.&nbsp; This is particularly important on the TR6-style linkage that has built-in disengagement zones.</font></div>

<div><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>

<div><font size="3"></font><br>
</div>

<div style="clear:both"><font size="4">Dave Massey</font><br>
<br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div> <br>
</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Paul Tegler &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
To: Jim Henningsen &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 3:16 am<br>
Subject: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues<br>
<br>

<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_b3d72249-8701-4264-8a12-6cac1217176c">

<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="aolReplacedBody">
    
<div>ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'&nbsp; ?</div>

<div>Engine is not smooth?.. sputtering?&nbsp; not running smooth while
      cruising?</div>

<div>An old adage.... (well two actually)<br>

      "..most carb problems are electrical..."&nbsp; and "..most ignition
      problems are the carbs"</div>

<div>Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air
      flow at idle? One of those little flow meters?<br>

      NOPE NADA STOP right there.&nbsp;&nbsp; Think about it...you're sealing off
      the air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle
      changes....so the balance tube in the manifold sucks from the
      other carb, bypassing the fuel pull.</div>

<div>I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from
      tuning more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4"
      fuel line as a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just
      up against the edge (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal
      air... and believe me you can hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but
      you can also hear the gurgle of the fuel flow!&nbsp;&nbsp; Years ago I
      actually gave away my flow gauges.</div>

<div>Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to
      replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL
      had the same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap.
      Pull the choke out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at
      closed or low speed throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of
      messages on various LBC lists....still to no avail.&nbsp; Than one day
      at a car show.... I saw a guy with an identical setup.... open big
      round K&amp;Ns and a end plate but had his air filters nearly 3/4
      closed off with duct tape.&nbsp; In the end, the problem was incorrect
      vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the piston was
      mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.</div>

<div>hhmmm.... ok...<br>

      <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm</a></div>

<div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm"><br>

      </a></div>

<div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="http://www.teglerizer.com/mgstuff/a_stumble_at_cruise.htm">ptegler</a><br>

    </div>

<div><br>

    </div>

    <br>

<div class="aolmail_moz-cite-prefix">On 10/15/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Henningsen
      wrote:<br>

    </div>

    <blockquote cite="about:blank">
      <pre>Ok, I thought I had this rebuild all nailed down.  Finally got around to
getting carbs balanced and set for correct mixture.  After new kits, testing
piston drop timing per John Twist you tube clip (great clip), and spending
two hours fine tuning air flow and mixture.  The carbs aren't running
smoothly.  There is something not right and I am throwing in the towel.
Don't have a reliable mechanic that I trust for this in Ocala.  Any
recommendations on a rebuilder to send these two to have them checked
professionally.  

Joe Curto?

Thanks in advance
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL

** <a class="aolmail_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **

Archive: <a class="aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>  <a class="aolmail_moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>

    <pre class="aolmail_moz-signature">-- 
Paul Tegler
<a class="aolmail_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>  <a class="aolmail_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" removedlink__7053c0fe-157e-4b9e-a4e4-87335fcf2ee8__href="http://www.teglerizer.com">www.teglerizer.com</a></pre>

</div>

</div>
<br>
</div>
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From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 08:55:38 -0400

Paul,
I had not seen your SU treatise before.  I admit that I am as mystified you about your observed results.  

There seem to be two potential effects of having the air box vs not having it in the carbs. You mention the slight overall vacuum it creates and you allude to a change in resonance that it may create.  I have never experienced this problem, but I do not have much experience.  

I certainly do not believe that SU carbs REQUIRE a less than atmospheric pressure at the mouth of the choke.  But one thing this does is make the carb act like the choke is on all the time and it raises the fuel level in the jet a bit.  

So step one in checking things is to verify that the fuel in the jets is correct.  

It would be interesting to see the air-fuel mixture when you are experiencing the stumble. It would appear to be due to a lean condition.  

The idle mixture adjustment on the jet has little effect off idle. So the needle profile is most important.  

When I was determining the proper needle profile for my TR7 with SU carbs, K&N filters and 4-1 tubular exhaust manifold, I started with the stock needle that was a bit too lean. 

I made a device to measure the piston lift (therefore the needle position in the jet) and used a manifold pressure sensor as well as RPM sensor and a tailpipe wide band oxygen sensor.  

The piston lift was used simply to try to create a formula using RPM and vacuum to predict the piston position.  

With that info I could relate needle "station" to mixture over a variety of real driving conditions.  I then hand-profiled the needles until I had a decent mixture over the full range.  Then I took those measurements and tried to find the best match for a standard needle profile. And that is what I am using now. 

I suspect that if you were to do the same thing then you would not need to run the original airboxes.  But in your case your performance is great as is your mileage. So why change anything.  

But for other people it may be better to find the ideal mixture than to tape-off large sections of their K&N filters!!!

-Tony

Sent from my 1837 Babbage Analytical Engine

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:00 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 23:23:23 -0400
> To: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'? ?
> 
> Engine is not smooth?.. sputtering?? not running smooth while cruising?
> 
> "..most carb problems are electrical..."? and "..most ignition problems 
> are the carbs"
> 
> NOPE NADA STOP right there.?? Think about it...you're sealing off the 
> air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the 
> balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the 
> fuel pull.
> 
> I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning 
> more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel line as 
> a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against the edge 
> (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me you can 
> hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the 
> fuel flow!?? Years ago I actually gave away my flow gauges.
> 
> Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to 
> replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the 
> same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke 
> out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed 
> throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC 
> lists....still to no avail.? Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy 
> with an identical setup.... open big round K&Ns and a end plate but had 
> his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape.? In the end, the 
> problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the 
> piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air filters.
> 
> hhmmm.... ok...

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:57:19 +0000 (UTC)

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:-)=C2=A0=C2=A0 been there done that.=C2=A0 Even once built a mini lathe (C=
NC) to make needle profiles as desired. (sold it for a pretty penny a coupl=
e years back.)

>From playing with all that over the years, I learned enough about engine an=
d breathing dynamics to feel comfortable designing my own FI for my Spit6ht=
tp://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spit6whiteyFI/spit6_fullengine.jpg

then went a bit crazy with it all
http://www.teglerizer.com/fi/MGB_twins/index.htmlhttp://www.teglerizer.com/=
fi/MGB/index.htmlhttp://www.teglerizer.com/fi/twinbodies/twin_throttle_bodi=
es_on_a_gt6.htm

hhhmm... come to think of it.... only Liberty still has SU's!https://www.yo=
utube.com/watch?v=3Dkvs_dLi2nJE

:-)

ptegler

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
To: triumphs <[email-masked]>
Cc: trguy75 <[email-masked]>; ptegler <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wed, Oct 17, 2018 8:56 am
Subject: Re: 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues

Paul,
I had not seen your SU treatise before.=C2=A0 I admit that I am as mystifie=
d you about your observed results.=C2=A0=20

There seem to be two potential effects of having the air box vs not having =
it in the carbs. You mention the slight overall vacuum it creates and you a=
llude to a change in resonance that it may create.=C2=A0 I have never exper=
ienced this problem, but I do not have much experience.=C2=A0=20

I certainly do not believe that SU carbs REQUIRE a less than atmospheric pr=
essure at the mouth of the choke.=C2=A0 But one thing this does is make the=
 carb act like the choke is on all the time and it raises the fuel level in=
 the jet a bit.=C2=A0=20

So step one in checking things is to verify that the fuel in the jets is co=
rrect.=C2=A0=20

It would be interesting to see the air-fuel mixture when you are experienci=
ng the stumble. It would appear to be due to a lean condition.=C2=A0=20

The idle mixture adjustment on the jet has little effect off idle. So the n=
eedle profile is most important.=C2=A0=20

When I was determining the proper needle profile for my TR7 with SU carbs, =
K&N filters and 4-1 tubular exhaust manifold, I started with the stock need=
le that was a bit too lean.=20

I made a device to measure the piston lift (therefore the needle position i=
n the jet) and used a manifold pressure sensor as well as RPM sensor and a =
tailpipe wide band oxygen sensor.=C2=A0=20

The piston lift was used simply to try to create a formula using RPM and va=
cuum to predict the piston position.=C2=A0=20

With that info I could relate needle "station" to mixture over a variety of=
 real driving conditions.=C2=A0 I then hand-profiled the needles until I ha=
d a decent mixture over the full range.=C2=A0 Then I took those measurement=
s and tried to find the best match for a standard needle profile. And that =
is what I am using now.=20

I suspect that if you were to do the same thing then you would not need to =
run the original airboxes.=C2=A0 But in your case your performance is great=
 as is your mileage. So why change anything.=C2=A0=20

But for other people it may be better to find the ideal mixture than to tap=
e-off large sections of their K&N filters!!!

-Tony

>=20
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed"
>=20
>=20
>=20
> "..most carb problems are electrical..."? and "..most ignition problems=
=20
> are the carbs"
>=20
> Seriously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at=20
> idle? One of those little flow meters?
> NOPE NADA STOP right there.?? Think about it...you're sealing off the=20
> air to get the bubble to rise so of course the idle changes....so the=20
> balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the=20
> fuel pull.
>=20
> I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and have learned from tuning=
=20
> more SU and ZS carbs than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel line as=
=20
> a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against the edge=
=20
> (not in) the carb throat. blocks minimal air... and believe me you can=20
> hear as little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the=
=20
>=20
> Eons ago..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to=20
> replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT...STILL had the=
=20
> same issue...smooth speed cruising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke=
=20
> out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed=20
> throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on various LBC=20
> lists....still to no avail.? Than one day at a car show.... I saw a guy=
=20
> with an identical setup.... open big round K&Ns and a end plate but had=
=20
> his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with duct tape.? In the end, the=20
> problem was incorrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the=
=20
>=20

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<div style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:b=
lack;"><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;=
color:black;">:-)&nbsp;&nbsp; been there done that.&nbsp; Even once built a=
 mini lathe (CNC) to make needle profiles as desired. (sold it for a pretty=
 penny a couple years back.)<br><br>From playing with all that over the yea=
rs, I learned enough about engine and breathing dynamics to feel comfortabl=
e designing my own FI for my Spit6</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">http://www.teglerizer.com/tr=
iumphstuff/spit6whiteyFI/spit6_fullengine.jpg<br><br>then went a bit crazy =
with it all<br>http://www.teglerizer.com/fi/MGB_twins/index.html</div><div =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;=
">http://www.teglerizer.com/fi/MGB/index.html</div><div style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">http://www.tegler=
izer.com/fi/twinbodies/twin_throttle_bodies_on_a_gt6.htm<br><br>hhhmm... co=
me to think of it.... only Liberty still has SU's!</div><div style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:black;">https://www.=
youtube.com/watch?v=3Dkvs_dLi2nJE<br><br>:-)<br><br>ptegler<br><br><br><br>=
<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Anthony Rhodes &lt;spam=
[email-masked]&gt;<br>To: triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>Cc: =
trguy75 &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; ptegler &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>S=
ent: Wed, Oct 17, 2018 8:56 am<br>Subject: Re: 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues<br=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Paul,<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I had not seen =
your SU treatise before.&nbsp; I admit that I am as mystified you about you=
r observed results.&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">There seem to be two potential effects of having the air box vs not ha=
ving it in the carbs. You mention the slight overall vacuum it creates and =
you allude to a change in resonance that it may create.&nbsp; I have never =
experienced this problem, but I do not have much experience.&nbsp; <br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I certainly do not believe th=
at SU carbs REQUIRE a less than atmospheric pressure at the mouth of the ch=
oke.&nbsp; But one thing this does is make the carb act like the choke is o=
n all the time and it raises the fuel level in the jet a bit.&nbsp; <br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">So step one in checking thin=
gs is to verify that the fuel in the jets is correct.&nbsp; <br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">It would be interesting to see the a=
ir-fuel mixture when you are experiencing the stumble. It would appear to b=
e due to a lean condition.&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">The idle mixture adjustment on the jet has little effect off id=
le. So the needle profile is most important.&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">When I was determining the proper needle prof=
ile for my TR7 with SU carbs, K&amp;N filters and 4-1 tubular exhaust manif=
old, I started with the stock needle that was a bit too lean. <br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I made a device to measure the pis=
ton lift (therefore the needle position in the jet) and used a manifold pre=
ssure sensor as well as RPM sensor and a tailpipe wide band oxygen sensor.&=
nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The piston lift=
 was used simply to try to create a formula using RPM and vacuum to predict=
 the piston position.&nbsp; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">With that info I could relate needle "station" to mixture over a v=
ariety of real driving conditions.&nbsp; I then hand-profiled the needles u=
ntil I had a decent mixture over the full range.&nbsp; Then I took those me=
asurements and tried to find the best match for a standard needle profile. =
And that is what I am using now. <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">I suspect that if you were to do the same thing then you would =
not need to run the original airboxes.&nbsp; But in your case your performa=
nce is great as is your mileage. So why change anything.&nbsp; <br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">But for other people it may be be=
tter to find the ideal mixture than to tape-off large sections of their K&a=
mp;N filters!!!<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">-Tony<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my 1837 Babb=
age Analytical Engine<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">=
&gt; On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:00 PM, <a ymailto=3D"mailto:triumphs-request@aut=
ox.team.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:triumphs-request@au=
tox.team.net">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Message: 6<br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">&gt; Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 23:23:23 -0400<br></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">&gt; From: Paul Tegler &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">ptegler@verizo=
n.net</a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; To: Jim Henningsen &lt;<a ymai=
lto=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, <a ymailto=3D"mailto:triumph=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox=
.team.net">[email-masked]</a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Subje=
ct: Re: [TR] 61 TR3A SU H6 Carb Issues<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Messa=
ge-ID: &lt;<a ymailto=3D"mailto:e3b34234-608c-d56b-dac2-9a628a0fcc73@verizo=
n.net" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" href=3D"mailto:e3b34234-608c-d56b-dac2-9=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt;<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"=
utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">&gt; ok....what do you mean by 'carbs aren't running smoothly'? ?<=
br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Engine is no=
t smooth?.. sputtering?? not running smooth while cruising?<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; An old adage.... (well two =
actually)<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; "..most carb problems are electric=
al..."? and "..most ignition problems <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; are t=
he carbs"<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Se=
riously though.... what method didyou use to balance the air flow at <br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; idle? One of those little flow meters?<br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; NOPE NADA STOP right there.?? Think about it...you're =
sealing off the <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; air to get the bubble to ri=
se so of course the idle changes....so the <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; =
balance tube in the manifold sucks from the other carb, bypassing the <br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; fuel pull.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; I was finally convinced by an old mechanic and ha=
ve learned from tuning <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; more SU and ZS carbs=
 than I care to mention.... use a 1/4" fuel line as <br></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">&gt; a stethoscope ...one end in your ear..the other just up against th=
e edge <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; (not in) the carb throat. blocks min=
imal air... and believe me you can <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; hear as =
little 1-2 cfm readily, but you can also hear the gurgle of the <br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; fuel flow!?? Years ago I actually gave away my flow ga=
uges.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Eons a=
go..I got so fed up once I bought brand new NOS SU carbs to <br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">&gt; replace mine after three rebuilds of the orig units. BUT..=
.STILL had the <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; same issue...smooth speed cr=
uising and it ran like crap. Pull the choke <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;=
 out and it ran fine, but had to push it in at closed or low speed <br></di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; throttle. Spent a year+ and hundreds of messages on=
 various LBC <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; lists....still to no avail.? T=
han one day at a car show.... I saw a guy <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; w=
ith an identical setup.... open big round K&amp;Ns and a end plate but had =
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; his air filters nearly 3/4 closed off with =
duct tape.? In the end, the <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; problem was inc=
orrect vacuum effects ...not enough air velocity when the <br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">&gt; piston was mid/down as there was no restriction from the air=
 filters.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; <br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; hh=
mmm.... ok...<br></div></div>
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From: David Griffiths <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:44:11 +0200

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> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: Jim Henningsen <[email-masked]>
> Date: 18 October 2018 at 4:41:22 GMT+2
> To: Peter Caldwell <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]
>=20
> I just got one of those kits.  How do you use the rods? I didn=E2=80=99t=
 find a YouTube clip.  Thanks,
> Jim Henningsen=20

Hi=20

You can see an explanation on this page:=20
https://thosbryant.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/su-carburetor-tuning/

He doesn=E2=80=99t use the SU tool, but he has made something the same =
out of wire. Basically you put  the wires down the dashpot hole so they =
are the same level, then when the engine is running you adjust the two =
carburettors so the wires are at the same height.=20

Dave=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span=
 style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Jim Henningsen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Re: [TR] 61 TR3A =
SU H6 Carb Issues</b><br class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">18=
 October 2018 at 4:41:22 GMT+2<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Peter Caldwell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""></span></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">I just got one of those kits. =
&nbsp;How do you use the rods? I didn=E2=80=99t find a YouTube clip. =
&nbsp;Thanks,<br class=3D"">Jim =
Henningsen&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Hi&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>You =
can see an explanation on this page:&nbsp;</div><div><a =
href=3D"https://thosbryant.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/su-carburetor-tuning/"=
 =
class=3D"">https://thosbryant.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/su-carburetor-tunin=
g/</a></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>He doesn=E2=80=99t use the SU =
tool, but he has made something the same out of wire. Basically you put =
&nbsp;the wires down the dashpot hole so they are the same level, then =
when the engine is running you adjust the two carburettors so the wires =
are at the same height.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Dave</div></body></html>=

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