Subject: [TR] eBay - a sobering story

From: "Andrew Uprichard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 18:03:01 -0400

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Before I start the story, let me take full responsibility for my own
stupidity.  I screwed up.  But the follow-up is where I think others need to
be careful.

Having bought a TR3 with a body which was beyond salvage, I have been
looking for, and was prepared to pay good money for, a decent tub.  I
recently saw one on eBay which was advertised as being "in good condition".
It was fairly expensive, so I emailed the seller twice and asked
specifically about the extent of the rust:  he replied by assuring me the
car was "in great condition" with "minimal rust".  I asked for additional
pics, but he said it was difficult as the car was at a different location.

After I bid and won, the seller emailed me to say I had to pick the car up
within 24 hours as he had a family commitment and would be gone for a week.
The car was several hours away and I explained I couldn't make it.  He said
OK, but he wanted the money immediately.  I called PayPal and they said I
would lose any protection if I paid before seeing the car.  So I called eBay
and they reassured me I was covered 100% by the eBay vehicle protection plan
(VPP).  So I paid.  My mistake.

A week later I drove out and found a car with rust holes big enough to put
my hand through and a passenger side with so much collision damage I doubt
it could ever be restored.  Oh, and the frame was bent.  I told him I wasn't
going to take the car, he had misrepresented it, and I wanted my money back.
He told me tough, you paid already, it's yours.

I came home and called eBay only to be told the VPP only applies to cars
less than 10 years old and that I had no recourse other than to sue the
seller.  After several sleepless nights I decided I could do without the
stress of litigation and so I drove back out to collect the car.  When I got
there the seller told me he had sold it to someone else.  Great, I said,
give me my money.  Nah, he said, you take it and I'll deal with the other
guy.  The seller had brought a few buddies over, and so I simply loaded the
car up and drove home.

Bottom line - I salvaged one replacement panel and 2 fenders, one of which
is fiberglass.  The car is being collected this week for a trip to the
scrapyard.

It was my fault and I accept responsibility for it.  Thankfully, my lovely
wife has not given me grief and as a Christian I forgive the guy.  But I did
leave negative feedback on eBay.  The EXACT words were "Total
misrepresentation of the car.  Buyers beware".  It never posted.  I called
eBay today and was told the seller had appealed my feedback as it was
"pejorative and threatened the future success of his business".  As a result
eBay had the right to remove it - and they did.  And they will not let me
leave any negative feedback.

I still love the Triumph community, but I am a little more cynical about
mankind (which is a shame) and I am disgusted with eBay.  I guess I am
venting, but if anyone has a good TR3 tub...

Andrew Uprichard

Jackson, Michigan

 

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Before I start the =
story, let me take full responsibility for my own stupidity.&nbsp; I =
screwed up.&nbsp; But the follow-up is where I think others need to be =
careful.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Having bought a TR3 with =
a body which was beyond salvage, I have been looking for, and was =
prepared to pay good money for, a decent tub.&nbsp; I recently saw one =
on eBay which was advertised as being &#8220;in good =
condition&#8221;.&nbsp; It was fairly expensive, so I emailed the seller =
<u>twice</u> and asked specifically about the extent of the rust:&nbsp; =
he replied by assuring me the car was &#8220;in great condition&#8221; =
with &#8220;minimal rust&#8221;.&nbsp; I asked for additional pics, but =
he said it was difficult as the car was at a different =
location.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>After I bid and won, the =
seller emailed me to say I had to pick the car up within 24 hours as he =
had a family commitment and would be gone for a week.&nbsp; The car was =
several hours away and I explained I couldn&#8217;t make it.&nbsp; He =
said OK, but he wanted the money immediately.&nbsp; I called PayPal and =
they said I would lose any protection if I paid before seeing the =
car.&nbsp; So I called eBay and they reassured me I was covered 100% by =
the eBay vehicle protection plan (VPP).&nbsp; So I paid.&nbsp; My =
mistake.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>A week later I drove out =
and found a car with rust holes big enough to put my hand through and a =
passenger side with so much collision damage I doubt&nbsp; it could ever =
be restored.&nbsp; Oh, and the frame was bent.&nbsp; I told him I =
wasn&#8217;t going to take the car, he had misrepresented it, and I =
wanted my money back.&nbsp; He told me tough, you paid already, =
it&#8217;s yours.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>I came home and called =
eBay only to be told the VPP only applies to cars less than 10 years old =
and that I had no recourse other than to sue the seller.&nbsp; After =
several sleepless nights I decided I could do without the stress of =
litigation and so I drove back out to collect the car.&nbsp; When I got =
there the seller told me he had sold it to someone else.&nbsp; Great, I =
said, give me my money.&nbsp; Nah, he said, you take it and I&#8217;ll =
deal with the other guy.&nbsp; The seller had brought a few buddies =
over, and so I simply loaded the car up and drove =
home.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Bottom line &#8211; I =
salvaged one replacement panel and 2 fenders, one of which is =
fiberglass.&nbsp; The car is being collected this week for a trip to the =
scrapyard.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>It was my fault and I =
accept responsibility for it.&nbsp; Thankfully, my lovely wife has not =
given me grief and as a Christian I forgive the guy.&nbsp; But I did =
leave negative feedback on eBay.&nbsp; The EXACT words were &#8220;Total =
misrepresentation of the car.&nbsp; Buyers beware&#8221;.&nbsp; It never =
posted.&nbsp; I called eBay today and was told the seller had appealed =
my feedback as it was &#8220;pejorative and threatened the future =
success of his business&#8221;.&nbsp; As a result eBay had the right to =
remove it &#8211; and they did.&nbsp; And they will not let me leave any =
negative feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>I still love the Triumph =
community, but I am a little more cynical about mankind (which is a =
shame) and I am disgusted with eBay.&nbsp; I guess I am venting, but if =
anyone has a good TR3 tub&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Andrew =
Uprichard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>Jackson, =
Michigan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: Frank Magnusson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:37:10 -0500

I've bought and sold alot on ebay; not vehicles, however.

But a couple words of caution.  If a seller is reluctant to take more pictures of an item, they are hiding something.  Similarly, if the written description is lacking and it says condition is as shown in the photos, they are hiding something.  Both are red flags and steer clear.

Also check feedback ratings and read any negative or less than positive feedback.  If feedback rating isnt in the high 90s, or if they have a very limited number of transactions, steer clear as well.

Unfortunately, ebay does not allow you to email or give a phone number to have direct contact; people cheat them out of their fees if they do.

That being said, report it to ebay and you should be able to geta full refund.  Im surprised that on vehicles it is only going back 10 years.  Id approach ebay again and say it was a parts car or parts and the condition was grossly misrepresented.

If nothing else, leave clear negative feedback, and if you still dont get your money back, take him to small claims court.

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From: Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 03:51:49 +0000 (GMT) MailServer1818B30.10000-1818B-0-3db5beab3ae9

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I'm surprised to hear that about BaT. =C2=A0Their whole premiss is that al=
l the cars are well vetted so you can have confidence to buy online. =C2=A0=
Also surprised he had no recourse either. =C2=A0=0A=0ASounds like that's t=
he exception not the rule, but that still sucks if he got burned.=0A=0APH:=
 530-FIND-RYE=0A=0AOn Oct 21, 2018, at 08:37 PM, Geo Hahn <ahwahneetr@gmai=
l.com> wrote:=0A=0AOn Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 9:52 PM Jim Henningsen <trguy75=
@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=C2=A0=0A...That=E2=80=99s why I like Bring a Trailer=
 so much...=0A=0AOver on the Triumph Experience a fellow got stung bad on =
a 'restored' TR4 he bought on Bring a Trailer.=C2=A0 He has basically no r=
ecourse and apparently BaT is of no help at all.=0A=0AI too would like to =
know the seller's info.=C2=A0 I bought two vehicles on eBay sight-unseen, =
both were much better than I expected (still have them today) -- but never=
 again.=0A=0AGeo=C2=A0=0A** [email-masked] **=0A=0ADonate: http:/=
/www.team.net/donate.html=0AArchive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumph=
s http://www.team.net/archive=0A=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=0A
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<html><body><div>I'm surprised to hear that about BaT. &nbsp;Their whole premiss is th=
at all the cars are well vetted so you can have confidence to buy online. =
&nbsp;Also surprised he had no recourse either. &nbsp;</div><div><br data-=
mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Sounds like that's the exception not the rule, =
but that still sucks if he got burned.</div><div><br></div><div>PH: 530-FI=
ND-RYE</div><div><br>On Oct 21, 2018, at 08:37 PM, Geo Hahn &lt;ahwahneetr=
@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div cla=
ss=3D"msg-quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 9:52 PM Jim Henningsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
[email-masked]" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">trguy75@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-le=
ft: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc soli=
d; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto">...That=E2=80=99s why I like Brin=
g a Trailer so much...</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Over on the T=
riumph Experience a fellow got stung bad on a 'restored' TR4 he bought on =
Bring a Trailer.&nbsp; He has basically no recourse and apparently BaT is =
of no help at all.</div><div><br></div><div>I too would like to know the s=
eller's info.&nbsp; I bought two vehicles on eBay sight-unseen, both were =
much better than I expected (still have them today) -- but never again.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Geo&nbsp;</div></div></div><div class=3D"_stretch">=
<span class=3D"body-text-content">** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.net" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
.net</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" dat=
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From: Randall <[email-masked]> 7DBcja/klBfDvlGtc1icsqh/tbPqB+aNAeDNhDjs5nWet7vk4ti+zquJOBb6i7esY8Wq5KJeIQtQjKJ5n7r9abpE8Wbtj9iqZzU=
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:54:10 -0700

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BaT's TOS makes it clear that they aren't responsible for anything but taki=
ng your money=2E They will "help", but due diligence is up to the buyer=2E
-- Randall
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BaT's TOS makes it clear that they aren't responsible for anything but taki=
ng your money=2E They will "help", but due diligence is up to the buyer=2E<=
br>-- Randall
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