Subject: [TR] Spitfire single rail gearbox clutch mechanism

From: Stuart Greenwood <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 22:22:01 +0000 (UTC)

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I rebuilt my single rail gearbox and replaced the clutch 10,000 miles ago b=
ut I have been experiencing clutch judder for some time now. I was going to=
 replace the clutch and resurface the flywheel later this year but recently=
 I started the engine but when I came to put it in gear I found that the cl=
utch pedal was absolutely solid... it would not move.=C2=A0I removed the en=
gine and gearbox and found the release bearing carrier =C2=A0had jammed on =
the sleeve that carries it. =C2=A0It appears that the carrier had traveled =
too far along the sleeve and cocked over =C2=A0at an angle and jammed.on th=
e sleeve. Why this happened I don't know because I am using the correct clu=
tch master cylinder and slave cylinder so the movement of the rod that is a=
ttached to the operating level should be correct and should not move the be=
aring carrier too far along the sleeve.I noticed that the sleeve could be i=
ncreased in length by a good 1/4 ins since it doesn't reach to the end of t=
he release bearing carrier and this would presumably stop the carrier from =
cocking on the sleeve. I don't understand why the sleeve is shorter in leng=
th than it could be... there doesn't seem to be any problem if the sleeve w=
as made longer. Has anybody done this ?How good a fit should the release be=
aring carrier be on the sleeve? I can wriggle mine about when it is fully b=
ack on the sleeve but the movement doesn't feel to be excessive to me.=C2=
=A0The clutch is self adjusting in that the release bearing is always in co=
ntact with pressure plate diaphragm finger. =C2=A0With only 10,000 miles on=
 the clutch I don't see how the reduced the thickness of the driven plate w=
ould be sufficient to move the release bearing carrier a significant amount=
 on the sleeve or that the diaphragm fingers have bent a little.=C2=A0I wil=
l check the crankshaft end float to see it that is the problem.Any thoughts=
 on this issue would be welcomeStuart A Greenwood
San Diego
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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:14px"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4523" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_=
0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4541">I rebuilt my single rail gearbox and replaced =
the clutch 10,000 miles ago but I have been experiencing clutch judder for =
some time now. I was going to replace the clutch and resurface the flywheel=
 later this year but recently I started the engine but when I came to put i=
t in gear I found that the clutch pedal was absolutely solid... it would no=
t move.&nbsp;</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4523" =
dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4715">I removed the=
 engine and gearbox and found the release bearing carrier &nbsp;had jammed =
on the sleeve that carries it. &nbsp;It appears that the carrier had travel=
ed too far along the sleeve and cocked over &nbsp;at an angle and jammed.on=
 the sleeve. Why this happened I don't know because I am using the correct =
clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder so the movement of the rod that i=
s attached to the operating level should be correct and should not move the=
 bearing carrier too far along the sleeve.</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_=
0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4523" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471=
470148955_4936">I noticed that the sleeve could be increased in length by a=
 good 1/4 ins since it doesn't reach to the end of the release bearing carr=
ier and this would presumably stop the carrier from cocking on the sleeve. =
I don't understand why the sleeve is shorter in length than it could be... =
there doesn't seem to be any problem if the sleeve was made longer. Has any=
body done this ?</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_452=
3" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_5042">How good a=
 fit should the release bearing carrier be on the sleeve? I can wriggle min=
e about when it is fully back on the sleeve but the movement doesn't feel t=
o be excessive to me.&nbsp;</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_147147=
0148955_4523" dir=3D"ltr">The clutch is self adjusting in that the release =
bearing is always in contact with pressure plate diaphragm finger. &nbsp;Wi=
th only 10,000 miles on the clutch I don't see how the reduced the thicknes=
s of the driven plate would be sufficient to move the release bearing carri=
er a significant amount on the sleeve or that the diaphragm fingers have be=
nt a little.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4523" di=
r=3D"ltr">I will check the crankshaft end float to see it that is the probl=
em.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4523" dir=3D"ltr">Any t=
houghts on this issue would be welcome</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14=
71470148955_4523" dir=3D"ltr">Stuart A Greenwood<br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_=
16_0_ym19_1_1471470148955_4523" dir=3D"ltr">San Diego</div></div></body></h=
tml>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:29:35 -0500

Check your pilot bushing / bearing too.  My judder (in a TR race car) 
was caused by a worn pilot bushing, I believe.

Regards, Tony

At 05:22 PM 8/17/2016, Stuart Greenwood wrote:
>I rebuilt my single rail gearbox and replaced the clutch 10,000 
>miles ago but I have been experiencing clutch judder for some time 
>now. I was going to replace the clutch and resurface the flywheel 
>later this year but recently I started the engine but when I came to 
>put it in gear I found that the clutch pedal was absolutely solid... 
>it would not move.
>I removed the engine and gearbox and found the release bearing 
>carrier  had jammed on the sleeve that carries it.  It appears that 
>the carrier had traveled too far along the sleeve and cocked 
>over  at an angle and jammed.on the sleeve. Why this happened I 
>don't know because I am using the correct clutch master cylinder and 
>slave cylinder so the movement of the rod that is attached to the 
>operating level should be correct and should not move the bearing 
>carrier too far along the sleeve.
>I noticed that the sleeve could be increased in length by a good 1/4 
>ins since it doesn't reach to the end of the release bearing carrier 
>and this would presumably stop the carrier from cocking on the 
>sleeve. I don't understand why the sleeve is shorter in length than 
>it could be... there doesn't seem to be any problem if the sleeve 
>was made longer. Has anybody done this ?
>How good a fit should the release bearing carrier be on the sleeve? 
>I can wriggle mine about when it is fully back on the sleeve but the 
>movement doesn't feel to be excessive to me.
>The clutch is self adjusting in that the release bearing is always 
>in contact with pressure plate diaphragm finger.  With only 10,000 
>miles on the clutch I don't see how the reduced the thickness of the 
>driven plate would be sufficient to move the release bearing carrier 
>a significant amount on the sleeve or that the diaphragm fingers 
>have bent a little.
>I will check the crankshaft end float to see it that is the problem.
>Any thoughts on this issue would be welcome
>Stuart A Greenwood
>San Diego
>
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: Roger Elliott <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:03:52 -0500

One of the manuals (maybe Haynes) shows the clutch plate being installed 
backwards.  I know a couple of people that installed it that way and the 
clutch worked for a short period of time and then failed.

On 8/17/2016 9:29 PM, Tony Drews wrote:
>> I rebuilt my single rail gearbox and replaced the clutch 10,000 miles 
>> ago but I have been experiencing clutch judder for some time now. I 
>> was going to replace the clutch and resurface the flywheel later this 
>> year but recently I started the engine but when I came to put it in 
>> gear I found that the clutch pedal was absolutely solid... it would 
>> not move.
>> the carrier had traveled too far along the sleeve and cocked over  at 
>> an angle and jammed.on the sleeve. Why this happened I don't know 
>> because I am using the correct clutch master cylinder and slave 
>> cylinder so the movement of the rod that is attached to the operating 
>> level should be correct and should not move the bearing carrier too 
>> far along the sleeve.
>> it could be... there doesn't seem to be any problem if the sleeve was 
>> made longer. Has anybody done this ?
>> How good a fit should the release bearing carrier be on the sleeve? I 
>> can wriggle mine about when it is fully back on the sleeve but the 
>> The clutch is self adjusting in that the release bearing is always in 
>> contact with pressure plate diaphragm finger.  With only 10,000 miles 
>> on the clutch I don't see how the reduced the thickness of the driven 
>> plate would be sufficient to move the release bearing carrier a 
>> significant amount on the sleeve or that the diaphragm fingers have 
>> bent a little.
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>