Subject: Re: [TR] winter storage

From: "dave n" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 16:27:17 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--===============2511657566836214087==
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01D1A48F.7DFA4F90"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01D1A48F.7DFA4F90
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

so we=E2=80=99re all talking about using fuel stabilizer to keep the =
gasoline from deteriorating.

that begs the question =E2=80=93 how long does fuel stabilizer last?  I =
ask this because I think, somewhere around here, is a can (that should =
tell you something) that I bought 20 years ago.  maybe 30? =20

not seriously, but anyone think its still good????

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01D1A48F.7DFA4F90
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=3Dltr>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>so we=E2=80=99re all talking about using fuel stabilizer to keep =
the gasoline from=20
deteriorating.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>that begs the question =E2=80=93 how long does fuel stabilizer =
last?&nbsp; I ask=20
this because I think, somewhere around here, is a can (that should tell =
you=20
something) that I bought 20 years ago.&nbsp; maybe 30?&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>not seriously, but anyone think its still good????</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D'FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; =
DISPLAY: inline'></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01D1A48F.7DFA4F90--

--===============2511657566836214087==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

--===============2511657566836214087==--

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 20:45:03 -0400

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Rye Livingston <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Many years ago I heard a guy on the radio say it's best to store a car with
> the tank full to minimize condensation

We always stored our airplane with full tanks for just that reason.

---

From: "Reihing, Randall S." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 03:16:56 +0000

--===============4144977166170653394==
Content-Language: en-US
	boundary="_000_5DF59F06A5E05E47A21C0E72057265D9016FB4120Emsgdb11utadut_"

--_000_5DF59F06A5E05E47A21C0E72057265D9016FB4120Emsgdb11utadut_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dave,

Sorry, but I just can't help myself and no disrespect intended.

I don't know how long fuel stabilizer lasts but it looks like you are askin=
g how long the can will last.

I have two WW II US Army five gallon cans that were originally on a WW II U=
S Army tank and at 75 years old they are still good, do not leak, are not r=
usty inside or outside, and hold fuel for as long as I need them to, which =
is a lot less than 20-30 years.

If you are describing a 20-30 year old fuel can with 20-30 year old fuel in=
 it that had fuel stabilizer added to it 20-30 years ago, it is amazing the=
 cap seal has not allowed all of it to evaporate after 20-30 years. If that=
 can does still have 20-30 year old gas in it - by now that stuff will prob=
ably be varnish and sludge. Great for starting bonfires. Maybe.

Might be fun to pour some in a lawn mower and see if it runs. I would love =
to try that in my mother-in-laws 50 year old 3 hp Briggs and Stratton rotar=
y mower.

Randall Reihing

________________________________
From: Triumphs [[email-masked]] on behalf of dave n [dave@=
ranteer.com]
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 5:27 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] winter storage

so we=92re all talking about using fuel stabilizer to keep the gasoline fro=
m deteriorating.

that begs the question =96 how long does fuel stabilizer last?  I ask this =
because I think, somewhere around here, is a can (that should tell you some=
thing) that I bought 20 years ago.  maybe 30?

--_000_5DF59F06A5E05E47A21C0E72057265D9016FB4120Emsgdb11utadut_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr" fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">Dave,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry, but I just can't help myself and no disrespect intended.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't know how long fuel stabilizer lasts but it looks like you are =
asking how long the can will last.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have two WW II US Army five gallon cans that were originally on a WW=
 II US Army tank and at 75 years old they are still good, do not leak, are =
not rusty inside or outside, and hold fuel for as long as I need them to, w=
hich is a lot less than 20-30 years.
 &nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you are describing a 20-30 year old fuel can with 20-30 year old fu=
el in it that had fuel stabilizer added to it 20-30 years ago, it is amazin=
g the cap seal has not allowed all of it to evaporate after 20-30 years. If=
 that can does still have 20-30
 year old gas in it - by now that stuff will probably be varnish and sludge=
. Great for starting bonfires. Maybe.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Might be fun to pour some in a lawn mower and see if it runs. I would =
love to try that in my mother-in-laws 50 year old 3 hp Briggs and Stratton =
rotary mower.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Randall Reihing</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRpF724563" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Triumphs [[email-masked]=
am.net] on behalf of dave n [[email-masked]]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 02, 2016 5:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] winter storage<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:'Calibri'; color:#000000">
<div>so we=92re all talking about using fuel stabilizer to keep the gasolin=
e from deteriorating.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>that begs the question =96 how long does fuel stabilizer last?&nbsp; I=
 ask this because I think, somewhere around here, is a can (that should tel=
l you something) that I bought 20 years ago.&nbsp; maybe 30?&nbsp;
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>not seriously, but anyone think its still good????</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small; text-decoration:none; font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;; font-weight:normal; color:#000000; font-style:normal; display:in=
line">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_5DF59F06A5E05E47A21C0E72057265D9016FB4120Emsgdb11utadut_--

--===============4144977166170653394==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============4144977166170653394==--

---

From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 11:20:48 +0100

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

--===============6329950192486460507==
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01D1A52D.D8841060"
Content-Language: en-gb

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0055_01D1A52D.D8841060
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Randall Reihing wrote:

I have two WW II US Army five gallon cans that were originally on a WW II US
Army tank and at 75 years old they are still good, do not leak, are not
rusty inside or outside, and hold fuel for as long as I need them to, which
is a lot less than 20-30 years.  

Snap! They knew how to make them in WW2. I've still got a 25 litre German
jerrican in German field grey stamped, "Wehrmacht. Afrika Korps 1942 - fur
Kubelwagen". Presumably it was designed to clip on to the open-topped VW
used by the likes of Rommel and friends?

How this can made it back to England is anyone's guess, especially as it has
two approx. 5 inch diameter patches painted olive green welded to either
face equally stamped on the patches "British Fifth Army LRDG" which LRDG
means Long Range Desert Group. These were the guys who penetrated far behind
enemy lines and made a nuisance of themselves by blowing up supply lines and
indulging in other unco-operative initiatives. Dad used the can for years
afterwards for kerosene to keep the kero heater in our greenhouse at home
going in the winter. It's still good for use and while it takes up a lot of
space in my tiny workshop, I can't bring myself to be rid of it:) It's
strange how the Germans and the Allies used such a familiar design. Who
copied who or was it two like minds on different sides coming up with the
same idea and concept?

Jonmac

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

------=_NextPart_000_0055_01D1A52D.D8841060
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:=
//www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=
=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Micros=
oft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Wingdings;
	panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
	{font-family:"Cambria Math";
	panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:#0563C1;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:#954F72;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
	color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle18
	{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
	color:windowtext;}
=2EMsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
	margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3D"#0563C1=
" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-=
fareast-language:EN-US'>Randall Reihing wrote:</span><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></=
p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa",sans-serif;color:black'>I have two WW II US Army five gallon cans tha=
t were originally on a WW II US Army tank and at 75 years old they are stil=
l good, do not leak, are not rusty inside or outside, and hold fuel for as =
long as I need them to, which is a lot less than 20-30 years. &nbsp;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Snap! Th=
ey knew how to make them in WW2. I&#8217;ve still got a 25 litre German jer=
rican in German field grey stamped, &#8220;Wehrmacht. Afrika Korps 1942 &#8=
211; fur Kubelwagen&#8221;. Presumably it was designed to clip on to the op=
en-topped VW used by the likes of Rommel and friends?<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>How this can made it ba=
ck to England is anyone&#8217;s guess, especially as it has two approx. 5 i=
nch diameter patches painted olive green welded to either face equally stam=
ped on the patches &#8220;British Fifth Army LRDG&#8221; which LRDG means L=
ong Range Desert Group. These were the guys who penetrated far behind enemy=
 lines and made a nuisance of themselves by blowing up supply lines and ind=
ulging in other unco-operative initiatives. Dad used the can for years afte=
rwards for kerosene to keep the kero heater in our greenhouse at home going=
 in the winter. It&#8217;s still good for use and while it takes up a lot o=
f space in my tiny workshop, I can&#8217;t bring myself to be rid of it</sp=
an><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> It&#8217;s strang=
e how the Germans and the Allies used such a familiar design. Who copied wh=
o or was it two like minds on different sides coming up with the same idea =
and concept?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",s=
ans-serif'>Jonmac<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><br />
<table style=3D"border-top: 1px solid #aaabb6;">
	<tr>
        <td style=3D"width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a href=3D"https://ww=
w.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Ds=
ig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"https://i=
pmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-v1.png" /=
></a></td>
		<td style=3D"width: 470px; padding-top: 15px; color: #41424e; font-size: =
13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-=
free. <a href=3D"https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&utm_content=3Demailclient" target=3D"_b=
lank" style=3D"color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a>
		</td>
	</tr>
</table></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0055_01D1A52D.D8841060--

--===============6329950192486460507==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============6329950192486460507==--

---

From: David Friedlander <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 09:58:24 -0400

--===============0655247380239732593==

--001a114380d66afb4a0531f082ac
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>From the FAQ at http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/sta-bil-faqs
the answer to the shelf life of Sta-Bil says:

"The shelf life of all STA-BIL=C2=AE brand products is 2 years after the
bottle has been opened, provided it has been tightly capped and
stored in a cool, dry place.  It will not harm anything if you use an
old bottle of STA-BIL=C2=AE brand, it just may not be as effective."

I can see the fog a lot more clearly now!  :- )

Dave

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 5:27 PM, dave n <[email-masked]> wrote:

> so we=E2=80=99re all talking about using fuel stabilizer to keep the gaso=
line from
> deteriorating.
>
> that begs the question =E2=80=93 how long does fuel stabilizer last?  I a=
sk this
> because I think, somewhere around here, is a can (that should tell you
> something) that I bought 20 years ago.  maybe 30?
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>

--001a114380d66afb4a0531f082ac
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">From the FAQ at <a href=3D"http://www.=
goldeagle.com/brands/sta-bil-faqs">http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/sta-bil-=
faqs</a><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic s=
ans ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">the answer to the shelf life of Sta-B=
il says:<br><br>&quot;The shelf life of all STA-BIL=C2=AE brand products is=
 2 years after the=20
<br>bottle has been opened, provided it has been tightly capped and <br>sto=
red=20
in a cool, dry place.=C2=A0 It will not harm anything if you use an <br>old=
=20
bottle of STA-BIL=C2=AE brand, it just may not be as effective.&quot;<br><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,san=
s-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">I can see the fog a lot more clearly now!=C2=A0=
 :- )<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic =
sans ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">Dave<br></div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 5:27 PM, d=
ave n <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:&#39;Calibri&#39;;COLOR:#000000">
<div>so we=E2=80=99re all talking about using fuel stabilizer to keep the g=
asoline from=20
deteriorating.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>that begs the question =E2=80=93 how long does fuel stabilizer last?=
=C2=A0 I ask=20
this because I think, somewhere around here, is a can (that should tell you=
=20
something) that I bought 20 years ago.=C2=A0 maybe 30?=C2=A0 </div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>not seriously, but anyone think its still good????</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:&quot;Calibr=
i&quot;;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">=
</div></div></div></div>
<br><br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> *=
*<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a114380d66afb4a0531f082ac--

--===============0655247380239732593==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============0655247380239732593==--

---

From: "Reihing, Randall S." <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 00:34:43 +0000

I think the cans I have are exact copies of the German "Jerry" cans. Very strong, never leak, all steel, extremely well sealed, and well made. 

Randall Reihing 
________________________________________
From: Triumphs [[email-masked]] on behalf of Randall [[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 2:14 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] winter storage

> I have two WW II US Army five gallon cans that were
> originally on a WW II US Army tank and at 75 years old they
> are still good, do not leak, are not rusty inside or outside,
> and hold fuel for as long as I need them to, which is a lot
> less than 20-30 years.

A bit different though; 'Jerry' cans are normally fully sealed (and strong enough to withstand the pressure from fuel vapor).
Automotive gas tanks are not.  Modern cars are closer to being sealed, but older Triumphs are totally open to the air.

So if you live in an area where dew forms on the grass (and your windshield), it also forms in the gas tank.  With non-ethanol gas,
the water runs to the bottom, where it can't evaporate, and causes rust.  (In colder climates, it can even freeze, leading to
"frozen" gas lines.)

With ethanol, the water combines with the ethanol.  Once the water concentration becomes high enough, both the water and the ethanol
settle out to the bottom of the tank.  What is left might run, but is typically lower octane, so causes engine knock (like Andrew
experienced).

FWIW, and as I recall, the US copied the "Jerry can" design from the Germans during WWII, hence the nickname ('Jerry' being a
nickname for 'German' at the time).  Far superior to what we came up with originally.

Randall

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 21:32:37 +0000 (UTC)

>settle out to the bottom of the tank.  What is left might run, but is typically lower octane, so causes engine knock (like Andrew

All right.  For crying out loud.  Who can know this stuff!  I don't remember studying this in my Shakespeare class????  I am forced to conced, to relent now that, while literature remains the highest value field of study in the human experience, it is perhaps possible that engineering has some small role to play....

But gadfrey!  Who could know that 'Jerry' cans are stronger than automotive gas tanks?  

Oh.  Dumbledore.  

Literature wins.

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A
New Hampshire

----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
To: "triumphs" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 2:14:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TR] winter storage

Randall