Subject: Re: [TR] TR3b restoration project underway

From: Kerry G Stanley <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:21:20 -0400

Randall,

I have the Piggott book, but I’ve also seen some other “very official” type publication stating syncro trannies in TSF TR3b’s.  I just checked my tranny, which was pulled by the PO.  It has a number stamped on it TSF 251.  My commission number is TSF 198L.  Were tranny numbers running a little ahead like engine numbers did?  Also the top was pulled - and it has FOUR syncro rings!!!

Someday I will get it all back together and get to experience the syncro tranny.

TIA for your help,

Kerry
62 TR3b in restoration

On Mar 14, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> My 
>> understanding is a TSF had the TR4 synchro tranny but still 
>> the TR3 1991cc engine.
> 
> Seems to be some dispute over that; Bill Piggott claims (in Original Triumph TR) that the TSF cars were "virtually identical to
> final TR3A in all respects", and only the TCF cars were fitted "as standard" with the 4 synchro gearbox.
> 
> So it will be interesting to hear what you find.
> 
> BTW, congrats on the new project.  Sorry I can't help with the body work, you're much more ambitious in that area than I ever was.
> 
> Randall
> 57 TR3 TS13571L daily driver
> 71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild
> 71 Stag mixture waiting gearbox rebuild
> 
> 

** [email-masked] **

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:49:19 -0400

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My experience over many, many years of looking at any TR3B I can find, has
yet to find one without full synchro as standard.  Perhaps they're there --
but I've not seen one, in either TSF or TCF series.  Take Piggott for what
it's worth.

My TSF-series car's BMIHT certificate notes it was built with "rationalised
gearbox".  Makes sense -- the TR4 had been in production almost six months
when TR3B production started.

TSF202L was built with engine TSF52E and, IIRC, gearbox TSF219.  The goal
in making that last run of sidescreens was to sell cars, not follow some
(or any) logic around production marshaling.

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L (since 1981)

On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Kerry G Stanley <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Randall,
>
> I have the Piggott book, but I=E2=80=99ve also seen some other =E2=80=9Cv=
ery official=E2=80=9D
> type publication stating syncro trannies in TSF TR3b=E2=80=99s.  I just c=
hecked my
> tranny, which was pulled by the PO.  It has a number stamped on it TSF
> 251.  My commission number is TSF 198L.  Were tranny numbers running a
> little ahead like engine numbers did?  Also the top was pulled - and it h=
as
> FOUR syncro rings!!!
> > Seems to be some dispute over that; Bill Piggott claims (in Original
> Triumph TR) that the TSF cars were "virtually identical to
> > BTW, congrats on the new project.  Sorry I can't help with the body
> work, you're much more ambitious in that area than I ever was.
> >
> > Randall
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">My experience over many, many years of looking at any TR3B=
 I can find, has yet to find one without full synchro as standard.=C2=A0 Pe=
rhaps they&#39;re there -- but I&#39;ve not seen one, in either TSF or TCF =
series.=C2=A0 Take Piggott for what it&#39;s worth.<div><br></div><div>My T=
SF-series car&#39;s BMIHT certificate notes it was built with &quot;rationa=
lised gearbox&quot;.=C2=A0 Makes sense -- the TR4 had been in production al=
most six months when TR3B production started.</div><div><br></div><div>TSF2=
02L was built with engine TSF52E and, IIRC, gearbox TSF219.=C2=A0 The goal =
in making that last run of sidescreens was to sell cars, not follow some (o=
r any) logic around production marshaling.</div><div><br></div><div>Don</di=
v><div>1962 TR3B TSF202L (since 1981)</div><div><br></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:2=
1 PM, Kerry G Stanley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kstanley44@ve=
rizon.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Randall,<br>
<br>
I have the Piggott book, but I=E2=80=99ve also seen some other =E2=80=9Cver=
y official=E2=80=9D type publication stating syncro trannies in TSF TR3b=E2=
=80=99s.=C2=A0 I just checked my tranny, which was pulled by the PO.=C2=A0 =
It has a number stamped on it TSF 251.=C2=A0 My commission number is TSF 19=
8L.=C2=A0 Were tranny numbers running a little ahead like engine numbers di=
d?=C2=A0 Also the top was pulled - and it has FOUR syncro rings!!!<br>
<br>
Someday I will get it all back together and get to experience the syncro tr=
anny.<br>
<br>
TIA for your help,<br>
<br>
Kerry<br>
62 TR3b in restoration<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 14, 2016, at 11:55 PM, Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt; My<br>
&gt;&gt; understanding is a TSF had the TR4 synchro tranny but still<br>
&gt;&gt; the TR3 1991cc engine.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Seems to be some dispute over that; Bill Piggott claims (in Original T=
riumph TR) that the TSF cars were &quot;virtually identical to<br>
&gt; final TR3A in all respects&quot;, and only the TCF cars were fitted &q=
uot;as standard&quot; with the 4 synchro gearbox.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So it will be interesting to hear what you find.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; BTW, congrats on the new project.=C2=A0 Sorry I can&#39;t help with th=
e body work, you&#39;re much more ambitious in that area than I ever was.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Randall<br>
&gt; 57 TR3 TS13571L daily driver<br>
&gt; 71 Stag LE1473L waiting engine rebuild<br>
&gt; 71 Stag mixture waiting gearbox rebuild<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> *=
*<br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
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Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
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hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox=
.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:28:48 -0500

TSF trannies should be full syncro, even my TCF TR3B had a TSF number on the trans. 
Bill B

Sent from my VIC-64

On Mar 16, 2016, at 7:21 PM, Kerry G Stanley <[email-masked]> wrote:

Randall,

TIA for your help,

Kerry
62 TR3b in restoration

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:28:21 -0000

Ref Kerry Stanley's discovery of an all synchro box, it's true that TR3b's
left the factory all with synchro transmissions. Regarding the numbering of
major components - viz engine, gearbox, axle and body, it is entirely usual
and normal to find they're all out of kilter with one another. The
Commission number denotes the car and the major component numbers are
subordinate and independent. That's why 'matching numbers' statements in
sale ads for Standard Triumph vehicles is such an oxymoron; usually none of
the numbers ever matched! Finally, the commission number had nothing to do
with the numerical order in which the cars were built. The adjective comes
from the older use of English meaning 'to commission' (to order or set a
process in motion). Therefore the numerical sequencing comes about as a
result of the UK Domestic or Export Sales Departments placing a vehicle
build order on the Production Control Department. It has nothing to do with
the sequencing order of the manufacturing process. The build process of MD
4032 DLO (or any other car) was controlled by continuous externally sourced
component availability to make up the 'skidded' truck onto which the fully
painted, trimmed and wired body was lowered.

Jonmac

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