Subject: [TR] Lightening TR3 Flywheel

From: "Bill Brewer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:29:45 -0800

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     ISTR that there are instructions somewhere on lightening a stock TR3
flywheel. Anyone on the list have it? I don't have Kastner's competition
prep book. I did find a grainy instruction diagram in Vizard's competition
prep book.

     I may be putting a TR3 flywheel on a mostly stock Standard Vanguard
engine in a Morgan. Kind of a mix-n-match thing with flywheels, ring gears
and starters.

     TIA,

     -Bill Brewer

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size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ISTR that there are =
instructions somewhere on lightening a stock TR3 flywheel. Anyone on the =
list have it? I don&#8217;t have Kastner&#8217;s competition prep book. =
I did find a grainy instruction diagram in Vizard&#8217;s competition =
prep book.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><font =
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I may be putting a =
TR3 flywheel on a mostly stock Standard Vanguard engine in a Morgan. =
Kind of a mix-n-match thing with flywheels, ring gears and =
starters.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><font =
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
TIA,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 =
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Bill =
Brewer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></body></html>
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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 14:42:09 -0800 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015C_01D14AEB.EB6B68F0"

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>      ISTR that there are instructions somewhere on lightening 
> a stock TR3 flywheel. Anyone on the list have it? I don't 
> have Kastner's competition prep book. I did find a grainy 
> instruction diagram in Vizard's competition prep book.

Here's what I have.  The Kastner books I checked don't give details for lightening. 

You might try talking to Joe Alexander.  ISTR he said he had a shop that knew how to remove 7 lb or so.  He did a run of lightweight
steel flywheels made, but I think they're all gone and I've not heard that he plans to get more made.

Of course, there's always the alloy Fidanza, available through Summit and others.  I've been very happy with mine, but there are
some concerns so that may be more than you want for your Morgan.  The racers seem to have a hard time keeping them on the crank, but
that hasn't been an issue for me on the street.  I still had to heat it up with a torch to get it off the old 3A motor, after
roughly 50K miles.  (The instructions note that it is a light press fit onto the crankshaft and suggest using heat to remove it.)

Randall

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From: "Jonas Payne" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 15:05:26 -0800

I have had 3 lightened to the tune of 6# or so.

The machinist in every case indicated that it was the softest steel he had
ever seen and was very concerned about taking off any more than that.

Jonas Payne
PBR Consulting Services, LLC
702.882.6711

-----Original Message-----
From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Randall
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 2:42 PM
To: 'Bill Brewer' <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Lightening TR3 Flywheel

>      ISTR that there are instructions somewhere on lightening a stock 
> TR3 flywheel. Anyone on the list have it? I don't have Kastner's 
> competition prep book. I did find a grainy instruction diagram in 
> Vizard's competition prep book.

Here's what I have.  The Kastner books I checked don't give details for
lightening. 

You might try talking to Joe Alexander.  ISTR he said he had a shop that
knew how to remove 7 lb or so.  He did a run of lightweight steel flywheels
made, but I think they're all gone and I've not heard that he plans to get
more made.

Of course, there's always the alloy Fidanza, available through Summit and
others.  I've been very happy with mine, but there are some concerns so that
may be more than you want for your Morgan.  The racers seem to have a hard
time keeping them on the crank, but that hasn't been an issue for me on the
street.  I still had to heat it up with a torch to get it off the old 3A
motor, after roughly 50K miles.  (The instructions note that it is a light
press fit onto the crankshaft and suggest using heat to remove it.)

Randall

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From: Ted Schumacher <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2016 18:11:40 -0500

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 05:40:03 -0800

> The advantages of a lighter flywheel are pretty clear. Faster 
> acceleration = more fun.
> 
> Once you have a lighter flywheel installed and balanced, 
> etc., are there any long-term disadvantages? 
> 
> E.g. does that extra mass in the flywheel help absorb 
> vibration that is now absorbed by something else in a 
> flywheel-lightened car?

I did not notice any increase in vibration; but I also did not have the engine balanced either before or after.  (Didn't even have
the engine out of the car.)  And my car has plenty of vibration from other sources.  You might well notice an increase if everything
was balanced perfectly.

The biggest downside that I have noticed is the engine seems much less torque-y at very low rpm.  Coordination of the throttle and
clutch becomes much more important when first launching from a stop, especially when the engine is cold.  I don't recall ever
killing the engine with the old cast iron flywheel, but even now, after some 100,000 miles of driving almost every day, I still kill
it every once in awhile with the alloy.

Perhaps because of that, the friction surface of the flywheel seems to be wearing quite a bit quicker than it did with the old
flywheel.  The wear was noticeable after only 50,000 miles or so; which still isn't bad, just different.  I expect the friction
surface (which is a separate replaceable piece) will need to be replaced by the time the clutch plate wears out.

I also get just a bit of clutch chatter when it is cold.  May or may not have anything to do with the flywheel (as I changed to the
later diaphragm clutch at the same time), but I suspect it does.

The biggest concern with the aluminum flywheel is that aluminum has no fatigue limit; meaning the part has some limit on service
life before it breaks (just like airplanes do).  I'm taking a chance on that not happening during my service life, but I'm not aware
of any analysis that shows when it might happen while still observing the factory redline.  If I were racing with it, I would
definitely have a better scatter shield around it.

YMMV
Randall