Subject: Re: [TR] Ruminations

From: David Friedlander <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:20:21 -0500

--===============0355171830091352046==

--001a1145bd10b8a1bb0526f15582

Ken;

I 'love' that. In the '73 Arab Oil embargo, we were told of an 'oil
shortage' which forced the price of gas to double and even triple in a
matter of weeks. Overnight, the Arab sheikdoms became billionaires. Here we
are, forty years later and, somehow, we have an oil GLUT! Now how can that
be??

I'd like to asee a history graph showing the price of a barrel of West
Texas crude vs. the price of a gallon of oil at any given time? Last time
oil was $38.50/barrel, as it is now, how much was a gallon of gas? Makes me
think that even if a barrel of oil was FREE, we'd still pay at least $1.50
gallon, what with all the taxes, fees and whatnot (not to mention dealing
with the ethanol we didn't ask for).

Dave

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Home Consolidated <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I saw $1.60 per gallon gasoline recently which got me to thinking.  Has
> gas ever been this low?
>
> An inflation calculator.
> http://inflation-calculator.com/?gclid=CIyppfb83MkCFQuLaQodnV4AOg tells
> me that a buck sixty today is the same as $0.21 in 1962, $0.27 in 1970,
> $0.57 in 1980, $0.90 in 1990, and $1.18 in 2000. I never remember gas
> prices that low. I remember $0.14 for a week or so during a local gas war
> in the early sixties and $0.35 was about right in the early 70's, before
> the first Arab embargo, but otherwise it seems like prices were always a
> lot higher.  In 2005 I remember paying north of $4.00 per on the west coast
> or $4.88 today. I was watching an old tv show (1977) and the station sign
> said $0.609 or $2.13 today.
>
> We must be doing something right.
>
> Ken Gano
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>

--001a1145bd10b8a1bb0526f15582
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">Ken;<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">=
I &#39;love&#39; that. In the &#39;73 Arab Oil embargo, we were told of an =
&#39;oil shortage&#39; which forced the price of gas to double and even tri=
ple in a matter of weeks. Overnight, the Arab sheikdoms became billionaires=
. Here we are, forty years later and, somehow, we have an oil GLUT! Now how=
 can that be??<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:comic sans ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">I&#39;d like to asee a hist=
ory graph showing the price of a barrel of West Texas crude vs. the price o=
f a gallon of oil at any given time? Last time oil was $38.50/barrel, as it=
 is now, how much was a gallon of gas? Makes me think that even if a barrel=
 of oil was FREE, we&#39;d still pay at least $1.50 gallon, what with all t=
he taxes, fees and whatnot (not to mention dealing with the ethanol we didn=
&#39;t ask for).<br>=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">Dave<br></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 14, =
2015 at 11:59 PM, Home Consolidated <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div=
>I saw $1.60 per gallon gasoline recently which got me to thinking.=C2=A0 H=
as gas ever been this low?</div><div><br></div><div>An inflation calculator=
.=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://inflation-calculator.com/?gclid=3DCIyppfb83MkCFQuL=
aQodnV4AOg" target=3D"_blank">http://inflation-calculator.com/?gclid=3DCIyp=
pfb83MkCFQuLaQodnV4AOg</a>=C2=A0tells me that a buck sixty today is the sam=
e as $0.21 in 1962, $0.27 in 1970, $0.57 in 1980, $0.90 in 1990, and $1.18 =
in 2000. I never remember gas prices that low. I remember $0.14 for a week =
or so during a local gas war in the early sixties and $0.35 was about right=
 in the early 70&#39;s, before the first Arab embargo, but otherwise it see=
ms like prices were always a lot higher.=C2=A0 In 2005 I remember paying no=
rth of $4.00 per on the west coast or $4.88 today. I was watching an old tv=
 show (1977) and the station sign said $0.609 or $2.13 today.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>We must be doing something right.=C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Ken Gano=C2=A0<br><br><div>Sent from my iPad</div></div></div><br><=
br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> *=
*<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te=
am.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1145bd10b8a1bb0526f15582--

--===============0355171830091352046==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

--===============0355171830091352046==--

---

From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:52:54 -0000

On the UK lunchtime news today, we were told that inflation is now half of one percent over the last year - and everyone is rejoicing at the price of oil at $38 a barrel. Even more rejoicing that gas is now cheaper than it was per litre in 2005. Still means a gallon here is rocking out at $6.80 :) Blessings come with strange complexions...

Jonmac

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

---

From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:00:00 -0500

--===============8780332679772969139==
	boundary="----=_Part_110637_1564039410.1450198799939"

------=_Part_110637_1564039410.1450198799939
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sure, but I think the $1.60 is an outlier.  Looking at the GasBuddy site the average price over the last 10 years has been more like $2.80.  That would be equivalent to $0.36 in 1962, $0.46 in 1970, $0.97 in 1980, $1.54 in 1990 and $2.03 in 2000.  Projections are for crude to stay low for a while but that may turn out to be a year or two.  Many producers can't make money at the current rate for crude.

Dave Massey

-----Original Message-----
From: Home Consolidated <[email-masked]>
To: Listserv Triumph <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2015 10:59 pm
Subject: [TR] Ruminations

I saw $1.60 per gallon gasoline recently which got me to thinking.  Has gas ever been this low?

An inflation calculator. http://inflation-calculator.com/?gclid=CIyppfb83MkCFQuLaQodnV4AOg tells me that a buck sixty today is the same as $0.21 in 1962, $0.27 in 1970, $0.57 in 1980, $0.90 in 1990, and $1.18 in 2000. I never remember gas prices that low. I remember $0.14 for a week or so during a local gas war in the early sixties and $0.35 was about right in the early 70's, before the first Arab embargo, but otherwise it seems like prices were always a lot higher.  In 2005 I remember paying north of $4.00 per on the west coast or $4.88 today. I was watching an old tv show (1977) and the station sign said $0.609 or $2.13 today. 

Ken Gano 

Sent from my iPad

------=_Part_110637_1564039410.1450198799939
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<font color='black' size='4' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'><font size="4">Sure, but I think the $1.60 is an outlier.&nbsp; </font><font size="4">Looking at the GasBuddy site the average price over the last 10 years has been more like $2.80.&nbsp; That would be equivalent to $0.36 in 1962, $0.46 in 1970, $0.97 in 1980, $1.54 in 1990 and $2.03 in 2000.&nbsp; Projections are for crude to stay low for a while but that may turn out to be a year or two.&nbsp; Many producers can't make money at the current rate for crude.</font>
<div> <br>

</div>

<div style="clear:both"><font size="4">Dave Massey</font><br>

<br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Home Consolidated &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

To: Listserv Triumph &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2015 10:59 pm<br>

Subject: [TR] Ruminations<br>

<br>

<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_511760d7-4e40-47d7-bfe9-ddacca537412">

<div dir="auto" class="aolReplacedBody">

<div>I saw $1.60 per gallon gasoline recently which got me to thinking. &nbsp;Has gas ever been this low?</div>

<div><br>

</div>

<div>An inflation calculator.&nbsp;<a target="_blank" href="http://inflation-calculator.com/?gclid=CIyppfb83MkCFQuLaQodnV4AOg">http://inflation-calculator.com/?gclid=CIyppfb83MkCFQuLaQodnV4AOg</a>&nbsp;tells me that a buck sixty today is the same as $0.21 in 1962, $0.27 in 1970, $0.57 in 1980, $0.90 in 1990, and $1.18 in 2000. I never remember gas prices that low. I remember $0.14 for a week or so during a local gas war in the early sixties and $0.35 was about right in the early 70's, before the first Arab embargo, but otherwise it seems like prices were always a lot higher. &nbsp;In 2005 I remember paying north of $4.00 per on the west coast or $4.88 today. I was watching an old tv show (1977) and the station sign said $0.609 or $2.13 today.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br>

</div>

<div>We must be doing something right.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br>

</div>

<div>Ken Gano&nbsp;<br>

<br>

<div>Sent from my iPad</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<br>

** <a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **<br>

<br>

Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/archive" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>

Forums: <a href="http://www.team.net/forums" target="_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>

</div>

</font>
------=_Part_110637_1564039410.1450198799939--

--===============8780332679772969139==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============8780332679772969139==--

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:44:10 -0500

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
> The glut has many causes, but I'd say chief among them is that the oil companies have learned a LOT more since then on how to
> squeeze more oil out of the ground (steam injection, oil shale, fracking, etc) plus how to squeeze more gasoline from a barrel of
> crude.

Not to mention overall average gasoline consumption per mile.  I'm not
sure how that number has changed over the years...doubled? tripled?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

---

From: Bob Labuz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:58:51 -0500

Jeff,

Not so sure I agree.

I have made over 30MPG on my 2.2 liter TR3 in the past.  87MM upgrade 
but with the stock 4sp transmission.
WIth OD, I am sure many have done better.

I average about 25MPG on all my Triumphs, a 3, 4 and 6 just driving to 
car hops etc. No real long range highway mileage. My wife's 4cyl Camry 
just averaged about 35MPG on our trip out West. That is real good, but 
hardly twice my 4CYLs Triumphs. And it is fuel infected etc with many 
computers running the show and a 6 speed transmission. The only computer 
available when I drive a Triumph is in my pocket!

The Camry is heavier I am sure and that engine will last for many more 
miles but mileage has not improved as much as one would expect. I 
suspect some of the problem is alcohol and less bang for the buck in the 
power in todays fuels.

Bob

  On 12/15/2015 01:44 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

---

From: Joe Burlein <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 14:28:51 -0500

I think you hit it on the head with weight.  Air con, door braces, heated seats, stereo systems, stability control, infotainment, sound deadening, etc. PLUS the literal hundreds of pounds of wiring to support all that stuff kills economy.  And stupid ethanol in the US doesn't help a bit either!

Joe B
72 TR6

> On Dec 15, 2015, at 13:58, Bob Labuz <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> Not so sure I agree.
> 
> I have made over 30MPG on my 2.2 liter TR3 in the past.  87MM upgrade but with the stock 4sp transmission.
> I average about 25MPG on all my Triumphs, a 3, 4 and 6 just driving to car hops etc. No real long range highway mileage. My wife's 4cyl Camry just averaged about 35MPG on our trip out West. That is real good, but hardly twice my 4CYLs Triumphs. And it is fuel infected etc with many computers running the show and a 6 speed transmission. The only computer available when I drive a Triumph is in my pocket!
> 
> The Camry is heavier I am sure and that engine will last for many more miles but mileage has not improved as much as one would expect. I suspect some of the problem is alcohol and less bang for the buck in the power in todays fuels.
> 
> Bob
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: John Innis <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:49:27 -0600

--===============2916949414767294150==

--001a114fa8ac5a32600526f516a6

It's not just the increased weight, but in some case, not EVEN increased
weight.
First, compare a Camry to something comparable for it's day (say a '50s
Ford Fairlane) and you will see the Camry comes in a few hundred pounds
lighter.  Not really fair to compare a modern family sedan (even a compact)
to a sports car of any vintage.
The other big difference is the performance of the motor for the given
mileage.  The Camry I-4 (circa 2012) will do 0-60 in 8.4 secs making about
178hp from 2.5l.  The TR3 made a (reported) 10 second 0-60 on 100hp from
the 2.2 motor in a package weighing 1000lbs less.  So you do get something
for all that fancy new fangled tech.

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Joe Burlein <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I think you hit it on the head with weight.  Air con, door braces, heated
> seats, stereo systems, stability control, infotainment, sound deadening,
> etc. PLUS the literal hundreds of pounds of wiring to support all that
> stuff kills economy.  And stupid ethanol in the US doesn't help a bit
> either!
>
> Joe B
> 72 TR6
>
> car hops etc. No real long range highway mileage. My wife's 4cyl Camry just
> averaged about 35MPG on our trip out West. That is real good, but hardly
> twice my 4CYLs Triumphs. And it is fuel infected etc with many computers
> running the show and a 6 speed transmission. The only computer available
> when I drive a Triumph is in my pocket!
> >
> miles but mileage has not improved as much as one would expect. I suspect
> some of the problem is alcohol and less bang for the buck in the power in
> todays fuels.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >>> The glut has many causes, but I'd say chief among them is that the oil
> companies have learned a LOT more since then on how to
> >>> squeeze more oil out of the ground (steam injection, oil shale,
> fracking, etc) plus how to squeeze more gasoline from a barrel of
> >>> crude.
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
> >
> >
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>

-- 
=================================
= Never offend people with style when you   =
= can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =
=================================

--001a114fa8ac5a32600526f516a6
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">It&#39;s not just the increased weight, but in some case, =
not EVEN increased weight.=C2=A0 <br>First, compare a Camry to something co=
mparable for it&#39;s day (say a &#39;50s Ford Fairlane) and you will see t=
he Camry comes in a few hundred pounds lighter.=C2=A0 Not really fair to co=
mpare a modern family sedan (even a compact) to a sports car of any vintage=
.=C2=A0 <br>The other big difference is the performance of the motor for th=
e given mileage.=C2=A0 The Camry I-4 (circa 2012) will do 0-60 in 8.4 secs =
making about 178hp from 2.5l.=C2=A0 The TR3 made a (reported) 10 second 0-6=
0 on 100hp from the 2.2 motor in a package weighing 1000lbs less.=C2=A0 So =
you do get something for all that fancy new fangled tech.<br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1=
:28 PM, Joe Burlein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:floridatr6@cfl.=
rr.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I think you hit it on the head with weight.=C2=
=A0 Air con, door braces, heated seats, stereo systems, stability control, =
infotainment, sound deadening, etc. PLUS the literal hundreds of pounds of =
wiring to support all that stuff kills economy.=C2=A0 And stupid ethanol in=
 the US doesn&#39;t help a bit either!<br>
<br>
Joe B<br>
72 TR6<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; On Dec 15, 2015, at 13:58, Bob Labuz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yellowtr@ad=
elphia.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Jeff,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not so sure I agree.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have made over 30MPG on my 2.2 liter TR3 in the past.=C2=A0 87MM upg=
rade but with the stock 4sp transmission.<br>
&gt; WIth OD, I am sure many have done better.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I average about 25MPG on all my Triumphs, a 3, 4 and 6 just driving to=
 car hops etc. No real long range highway mileage. My wife&#39;s 4cyl Camry=
 just averaged about 35MPG on our trip out West. That is real good, but har=
dly twice my 4CYLs Triumphs. And it is fuel infected etc with many computer=
s running the show and a 6 speed transmission. The only computer available =
when I drive a Triumph is in my pocket!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The Camry is heavier I am sure and that engine will last for many more=
 miles but mileage has not improved as much as one would expect. I suspect =
some of the problem is alcohol and less bang for the buck in the power in t=
odays fuels.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Bob<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 12/15/2015 01:44 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The glut has many causes, but I&#39;d say chief among them is =
that the oil companies have learned a LOT more since then on how to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; squeeze more oil out of the ground (steam injection, oil shale=
, fracking, etc) plus how to squeeze more gasoline from a barrel of<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; crude.<br>
&gt;&gt; Not to mention overall average gasoline consumption per mile.=C2=
=A0 I&#39;m not<br>
&gt;&gt; sure how that number has changed over the years...doubled? tripled=
?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Jeff Scarbrough<br>
&gt;&gt; Corrosion Acres, Ga.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked].=
net</a> **<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/optio=
ns/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a> **<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
</div></div>&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailm=
an/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</=
a><br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> *=
*<br>
<br>
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
hs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.tea=
m.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people wi=
th style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam =
Brown=C2=A0 =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>
</div>

--001a114fa8ac5a32600526f516a6--

--===============2916949414767294150==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============2916949414767294150==--

---

From: Joe Burlein <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 15:39:01 -0500

--===============5638979555961659808==
	boundary=Apple-Mail-089184A7-0F5B-443C-A024-31976AD64EFE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-089184A7-0F5B-443C-A024-31976AD64EFE
	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

True, but I always wondered what kind of gas mileage you'd get if you went b=
ate bones!

Joe B
72 TR6

> On Dec 15, 2015, at 14:49, John Innis <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> It's not just the increased weight, but in some case, not EVEN increased w=
eight. =20
> First, compare a Camry to something comparable for it's day (say a '50s Fo=
rd Fairlane) and you will see the Camry comes in a few hundred pounds lighte=
r.  Not really fair to compare a modern family sedan (even a compact) to a s=
ports car of any vintage. =20
> The other big difference is the performance of the motor for the given mil=
eage.  The Camry I-4 (circa 2012) will do 0-60 in 8.4 secs making about 178h=
p from 2.5l.  The TR3 made a (reported) 10 second 0-60 on 100hp from the 2.2=
 motor in a package weighing 1000lbs less.  So you do get something for all t=
hat fancy new fangled tech.
>=20
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Joe Burlein <[email-masked]> wrot=
e:
>> I think you hit it on the head with weight.  Air con, door braces, heated=
 seats, stereo systems, stability control, infotainment, sound deadening, et=
c. PLUS the literal hundreds of pounds of wiring to support all that stuff k=
ills economy.  And stupid ethanol in the US doesn't help a bit either!
>>=20
>>=20
>> > I have made over 30MPG on my 2.2 liter TR3 in the past.  87MM upgrade b=
ut with the stock 4sp transmission.
>> > I average about 25MPG on all my Triumphs, a 3, 4 and 6 just driving to c=
ar hops etc. No real long range highway mileage. My wife's 4cyl Camry just a=
veraged about 35MPG on our trip out West. That is real good, but hardly twic=
e my 4CYLs Triumphs. And it is fuel infected etc with many computers running=
 the show and a 6 speed transmission. The only computer available when I dri=
ve a Triumph is in my pocket!
>> >
>> > The Camry is heavier I am sure and that engine will last for many more m=
iles but mileage has not improved as much as one would expect. I suspect som=
e of the problem is alcohol and less bang for the buck in the power in today=
s fuels.
>> >>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>> >>> The glut has many causes, but I'd say chief among them is that the oi=
l companies have learned a LOT more since then on how to
>> >>> squeeze more oil out of the ground (steam injection, oil shale, frack=
ing, etc) plus how to squeeze more gasoline from a barrel of
>> >>> crude.
>> >> Not to mention overall average gasoline consumption per mile.  I'm not=

>> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/yel=
[email-masked]
>> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/flor=
[email-masked]
>>=20
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/jdinni=
[email-masked]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =3D Never offend people with style when you   =3D
> =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown  =3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

--Apple-Mail-089184A7-0F5B-443C-A024-31976AD64EFE
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>True, but I always wondered what kind o=
f gas mileage you'd get if you went bate bones!<br><br>Joe B<div>72 TR6</div=
></div><div><br>On Dec 15, 2015, at 14:49, John Innis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">It's not just the increased weight, but=
 in some case, not EVEN increased weight.&nbsp; <br>First, compare a Camry t=
o something comparable for it's day (say a '50s Ford Fairlane) and you will s=
ee the Camry comes in a few hundred pounds lighter.&nbsp; Not really fair to=
 compare a modern family sedan (even a compact) to a sports car of any vinta=
ge.&nbsp; <br>The other big difference is the performance of the motor for t=
he given mileage.&nbsp; The Camry I-4 (circa 2012) will do 0-60 in 8.4 secs m=
aking about 178hp from 2.5l.&nbsp; The TR3 made a (reported) 10 second 0-60 o=
n 100hp from the 2.2 motor in a package weighing 1000lbs less.&nbsp; So you d=
o get something for all that fancy new fangled tech.<br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 1:28 PM,=
 Joe Burlein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">I think you hit it on the head with weight.&nbsp; Air con, d=
oor braces, heated seats, stereo systems, stability control, infotainment, s=
ound deadening, etc. PLUS the literal hundreds of pounds of wiring to suppor=
t all that stuff kills economy.&nbsp; And stupid ethanol in the US doesn't h=
elp a bit either!<br>
<br>
Joe B<br>
72 TR6<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt; On Dec 15, 2015, at 13:58, Bob Labuz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yellowtr@ade=
lphia.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Jeff,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Not so sure I agree.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have made over 30MPG on my 2.2 liter TR3 in the past.&nbsp; 87MM upgr=
ade but with the stock 4sp transmission.<br>
&gt; WIth OD, I am sure many have done better.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I average about 25MPG on all my Triumphs, a 3, 4 and 6 just driving to c=
ar hops etc. No real long range highway mileage. My wife's 4cyl Camry just a=
veraged about 35MPG on our trip out West. That is real good, but hardly twic=
e my 4CYLs Triumphs. And it is fuel infected etc with many computers running=
 the show and a 6 speed transmission. The only computer available when I dri=
ve a Triumph is in my pocket!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The Camry is heavier I am sure and that engine will last for many more m=
iles but mileage has not improved as much as one would expect. I suspect som=
e of the problem is alcohol and less bang for the buck in the power in today=
s fuels.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Bob<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On 12/15/2015 01:44 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Randall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The glut has many causes, but I'd say chief among them is that t=
he oil companies have learned a LOT more since then on how to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; squeeze more oil out of the ground (steam injection, oil shale,=
 fracking, etc) plus how to squeeze more gasoline from a barrel of<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; crude.<br>
&gt;&gt; Not to mention overall average gasoline consumption per mile.&nbsp;=
 I'm not<br>
&gt;&gt; sure how that number has changed over the years...doubled? tripled?=
<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Jeff Scarbrough<br>
&gt;&gt; Corrosion Acres, Ga.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a> **<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/option=
s/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</=
a> **<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
&gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
&gt; Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
</div></div>&gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><=
br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> **=
<br>
<br>
t=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
s/[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D=
"gmail_signature">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>=3D Never offend people with styl=
e when you&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D<br>=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown&nb=
sp; =3D<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-089184A7-0F5B-443C-A024-31976AD64EFE--

--===============5638979555961659808==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============5638979555961659808==--