Subject: Re: [TR] Pre-production TR6

From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 20:34:54 -0700

Did you check for a commission number?

mjb.

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 22:33:33 -0600

Mark,
Didn't get that far, I'll see him again on Friday, he has a six-blade Tropical Fan I'd like to buy.   From a quick internet search the commission number is supposed to start at CC25001, but I have no clue if that is for regular production or the first ones, and if so how many, were considered pre-production. 

Bill B

Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 25, 2015, at 9:34 PM, Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]> wrote:

mjb.

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:07:35 -0000

If the guy is claiming it's a prototype (or what we called a 'mule') it's
likely an excuse to pass off a tired TR6 as something special when it isn't.
Usually, the only time a 'mule' or 'mules' were made were when there was
something fundamentally different in the engine / transmission and/or
suspension. To all intents and purposes the TR6 was nothing more than a
simple re-skin of the TR5/250. It was only done because Michelotti was up to
his eyes in work for other mnftrs and Karmann stepped in to do a low cost
'refresh' of a now aging design. Hope this helps

Jonmac

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:25:00 -0600

Thanks John,
His claim is that was among the first built cars that were sampled out to dealers in 1968 before true production began.   If it is indeed a 'mule', how could that be verified?
All the best,
Bill B
TS30800L

Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 26, 2015, at 3:07 AM, John Macartney <[email-masked]> wrote:

Jonmac

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:23:57 -0000

To the best of my knowledge, there were no prototypes/mules for the TR6
because (a) it was no different mechanically to the 5/250 and (b) it only
differed externally from its predecessor with body panels.

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 26 November 2015 13:25
To: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Pre-production TR6

Thanks John,
His claim is that was among the first built cars that were sampled out to
dealers in 1968 before true production began.   If it is indeed a 'mule',
how could that be verified?
All the best,
Bill B
TS30800L

Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 26, 2015, at 3:07 AM, John Macartney <[email-masked]>
wrote:

Jonmac

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:38:56 -0600

Interesting, going tomorrow to take a closer look and ask a few more questions.  
Bill

Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 26, 2015, at 9:23 AM, John Macartney <[email-masked]> wrote:

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 26 November 2015 13:25
To: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Pre-production TR6

Thanks John,

Sent from my VIC-64

Jonmac

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 19:44:14 -0000

Another of my 'senior moments' :) The acid test to determine whether it's a
prototype/mule is to check the commission number. If the leading or only
letter in the row is an 'X' then that means Experimental, so it'll be a
mule. In the event the commission number looks 'normal' but is in the first
three or four of the start of the model series, then this will signify the
car was probably built 'off tools' meaning it was effectively bolted
together by hand. 'Off tools' cars were usually used by the company as Press
Cars and an example is Stag. LD1DLBW was a RHD car that's still in the UK
while LD2LDLBW was a LHD  and shipped to the US to become the US launch car
and was finally finished as a complete restoration by Joe Pawlak (ISOA) in
Illinois last year. Joe found a lot of peculiar *little* things on LD2 in
comparison to two other later Stags he's rebuilt that were peculiar to those
cars, though you'll have to ask him what they were.
Moral here, is don't believe anything you're told unless the seller can
fully document his/her claim. A Heritage Certificate is the only accurate
and dependable document, so if seller can't produce one of those, don't get
excited about what he claims it 'might' be.

Jonmac

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:15:26 -0600

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The saga continues:
Photon rain, could lift the bonnet to check the Comm number.   He says this c=
ar is one of 66 cars that were built and sent to dealers through the US, per=
haps other locales as well.   He said It has a TR250 steering wheel and the d=
ash is a bit different.  Bottom line, he has decided not to sell it but to r=
estore it first, so I dropped the conversation.=20

I did buy a six blade Tropical Fan from him though.  If you have odd parts t=
hat you are looking for, his site and contact info is at: www.mcleodsbritish=
cars.com . He has 10 acres of all the LBC Marques.=20

All the best,
Bill B
TS30800L

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Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 26, 2015, at 1:44 PM, John Macartney <[email-masked]> w=
rote:

together by hand. 'Off tools' cars were usually used by the company as Press=

comparison to two other later Stags he's rebuilt that were peculiar to those=

Jonmac

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From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:04:59 -0700

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This is the earliest TR6 I know about. Too bad it was involved in the only fatal accident in my life.
Fatal to the car and the motorcycle rider who T-boned me on a dark and stormy night.

mjb.

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:35:50 -0600

Any unique about the car that would set apart from those manufactured a month or two later?
Bill

Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 27, 2015, at 3:04 PM, Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]> wrote:

mjb.

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 22:37:34 -0000

If he's the Roddy McLeod of that huge parts and car emporium in the depths
of a forest near Little Rock, Arkansas, I met him in 2009 when the British
Car Club of Arkansas hosted me and 'uncle jack' for a most enjoyable evening
next door to Roddy's place. He gave me a tour of his facility - including a
long door TR2 that has now (well, in 2009 it was) surrounded by shelving
full of unobtanium and he couldn't get to it to restore it :) Can't open his
website to send him an email, do you have his address?

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 27 November 2015 20:15
To: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Pre-production TR6

The saga continues:
Photon rain, could lift the bonnet to check the Comm number.   He says this
car is one of 66 cars that were built and sent to dealers through the US,
perhaps other locales as well.   He said It has a TR250 steering wheel and
the dash is a bit different.  Bottom line, he has decided not to sell it but
to restore it first, so I dropped the conversation. 

I did buy a six blade Tropical Fan from him though.  If you have odd parts
that you are looking for, his site and contact info is at:
www.mcleodsbritishcars.com . He has 10 acres of all the LBC Marques. 

All the best,
Bill B
TS30800L

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:01:16 -0600

John,

Yes, Ronnie still has the TR2 buried in the stockroom with no current plan to extricate it.  His email is:  [email-masked]

Bill

Sent from my VIC-64

On Nov 27, 2015, at 4:37 PM, John Macartney <[email-masked]> wrote:

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 27 November 2015 20:15
To: John Macartney <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Pre-production TR6

The saga continues:

All the best,
Bill B
TS30800L

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From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 18:15:58 -0600

I guess there were some early cars that may have had differences.  From the 
Piggot Complete Original series "The first injection car, CP25001, was a 
pre-production example with a TR5 engine, and CP25002 to CP25145 were CKD 
kits"  Also, for the carburator cars "1968 First car CC25003L, built 19 
September(25001 and 25002 not found in records"

Would be interesting to see the number on the guys car.

Greg Lemon

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mark J Bradakis" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 3:04 PM
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Pre-production TR6

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