Subject: Re: [TR] what happened? - the mystery continues

From: Rye Livingston <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:51:52 +0000 (GMT)

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The mystery continues.=0A=0AFirst off my bad. =C2=A0It's clearly blue-ish =
smoke, not white. =C2=A0It's=C2=A0burning oil not water.=0A=0ASo today I c=
leaned up the plugs and fired it up again to get it up to normal operating=
 temperature, and the smoke was billowing down the street like police had =
been throwing out tear gas canisters. =C2=A0Your comment was if it lingers=
 for a moment or three it's oil. This cloud is lingering for 10-20 plus se=
conds as it was rolling down the street.=0A=0AGot it warmed up and first d=
id a leak down test. =C2=A0Rotated the engine to get each piston at the to=
p of it's stroke with the values closed for ignition, then put 100 psi=C2=A0=
into each cylinder and 1, 3 and 4 held steady at 98psi.=C2=A0#2 held stead=
y at 95psi. =C2=A0No issues uncovered.=0A=0ANext was a compression test. =C2=
=A0Engine still warm,=C2=A0throttle wide open, all four came up to 150 lbs=
 plus 1-2 lbs. No issues uncovered.=0A=0ASo our thoughts at this point is =
it can't be a head gasket if we're getting good compression numbers and go=
od leak down test numbers.=0A=0AAdditional info - When I bought this TR4a =
head for this rebuild, it had been serviced many years ago but never insta=
lled on an engine. =C2=A0The machine shop tore it down and installed new h=
ardened valve seats and checked everything out - supposedly. =C2=A0I was t=
old the valves, valve springs and valve guides were all good, but now we'r=
e thinking this whole thing could be related to bad valve guides.=0A=0ANot=
 that this should matter, but I also installed a big bore kit so sleeves a=
nd pistons are all new.=0A=0AI'm waiting to hear back from British Motorsp=
orts to discuss and he offered to swing by my house to check it out and we=
'll go from there. =C2=A0I expect the head will come off again but hope to=
 zero in on the problem before dismantling it.=0A=0ARegards,=0ARye=0A=0A=0A=
=0AOn Oct 15, 2015, at 07:46 PM, ptegler <[email-masked]> wrote:=0A=0A=
seconded...=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 blue is 'burning' oil, not just super hea=
ted oil blowby which is usually white.=0AIf it dissipates almost immediate=
ly it's water, if it lingers for a moment or three.... its oil=0A=0Aptegle=
r=0A=0AOn 10/15/2015 10:51 AM, Brad Kahler wrote:=0ALots of white smoke do=
esn't always indicate water/coolant.=C2=A0 On my TR4 engine that had been =
freshly rebuilt when I bought it I had billowing clouds of white smoke.=C2=
=A0 After several head gasket changes I finally realized that the new line=
rs (liner & piston kit) had not been cross hatched so the rings didn't sea=
t.=C2=A0 This allowed for massive amounts of oil to be sucked up and out t=
he exhaust.=C2=A0 Result was white smoke.=0A=0ASo the question is, were th=
e cylinder liners cross hatched so the rings would seal?=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, O=
ct 15, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Chris Simo <[email-masked]> wrote:=0AIs that=
 water or oil? =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lots of white smoke would indicate to me a blo=
wn head gasket and water on the plugs.=0A=0ADid you replace the head gaske=
t with a new one when you fixed the oil ring? =C2=A0 Probably not recommen=
ded, but I've reused them (1x) =C2=A0in the past, but always painted them =
with the copper coat head gasket paint.=0A=0AI've blown head gaskets that =
leaked water into the pistons only -- no water in the oil.=C2=A0 But you m=
ay want to check your oil for contamination.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A** =
[email-masked] **=0A=0ADonate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=0A=
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=0AForums: http://www.team.net/forums=0A=
@verizon.net=0A=0A-- =0APaul Tegler [email-masked] www.teglerizer.com=

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<html><body><div></div><div>The mystery continues.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1">=
</div><div>First off my bad. &nbsp;It's clearly blue-ish smoke, not white.=
 &nbsp;It's&nbsp;burning oil not water.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"=
></div><div>So today I cleaned up the plugs and fired it up again to get i=
t up to normal operating temperature, and the smoke was billowing down the=
 street like police had been throwing out tear gas canisters. &nbsp;Your c=
omment was if it lingers for a moment or three it's oil. This cloud is lin=
gering for 10-20 plus seconds as it was rolling down the street.</div><div=
><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Got it warmed up and first did a leak=
 down test. &nbsp;Rotated the engine to get each piston at the top of it's=
 stroke with the values closed for ignition, then put 100 psi&nbsp;into ea=
ch cylinder and 1, 3 and 4 held steady at 98psi.&nbsp;#2 held steady at 95=
psi. &nbsp;No issues uncovered.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><=
div>Next was a compression test. &nbsp;Engine still warm,&nbsp;throttle wi=
de open, all four came up to 150 lbs plus 1-2 lbs. No issues uncovered.</d=
iv><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>So our thoughts at this point =
is it can't be a head gasket if we're getting good compression numbers and=
 good leak down test numbers.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><di=
v>Additional info - When I bought this TR4a head for this rebuild, it had =
been serviced many years ago but never installed on an engine. &nbsp;The m=
achine shop tore it down and installed new hardened valve seats and checke=
d everything out - supposedly. &nbsp;I was told the valves, valve springs =
and valve guides were all good, but now we're thinking this whole thing co=
uld be related to bad valve guides.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></d=
iv><div>Not that this should matter, but I also installed a big bore kit s=
o sleeves and pistons are all new.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></di=
v><div>I'm waiting to hear back from British Motorsports to discuss and he=
 offered to swing by my house to check it out and we'll go from there. &nb=
sp;I expect the head will come off again but hope to zero in on the proble=
m before dismantling it.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Reg=
ards,</div><div>Rye</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div><br data=
-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div class=3D"x-apple-signature"></div><div><br>On =
Oct 15, 2015, at 07:46 PM, ptegler &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><=
br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"msg-quote" bgcolor=3D=
"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">seconded...<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; blue is 'bur=
ning' oil, not just super heated oil blowby which is usually white.<br> If=
 it dissipates almost immediately it's water, if it lingers for a moment o=
r three.... its oil<br> <br> ptegler<br> <br><div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix=
">On 10/15/2015 10:51 AM, Brad Kahler wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">Lots of white smoke doesn't always indicate water/c=
oolant.&nbsp; On my TR4 engine that had been freshly rebuilt when I bought=
 it I had billowing clouds of white smoke.&nbsp; After several head gasket=
 changes I finally realized that the new liners (liner &amp; piston kit) h=
ad not been cross hatched so the rings didn't seat.&nbsp; This allowed for=
 massive amounts of oil to be sucked up and out the exhaust.&nbsp; Result =
was white smoke.<div><br></div><div>So the question is, were the cylinder =
liners cross hatched so the rings would seal?</div><div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 9:15 A=
M, Chris Simo <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0=
 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D=
"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Is that water or oil? &nbsp; &nbsp;Lots of white smoke would=
 indicate to me a blown head gasket and water on the plugs.<div><br></div>=
<div>Did you replace the head gasket with a new one when you fixed the oil=
 ring? &nbsp; Probably not recommended, but I've reused them (1x) &nbsp;in=
 the past, but always painted them with the copper coat head gasket paint.=
<br><div><br></div><div>I've blown head gaskets that leaked water into the=
 pistons only -- no water in the oil.&nbsp; But you may want to check your=
 oil for contamination.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 =
0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D=
"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br> <br> <br></bloc=
kquote></div><br></div></div></div><br><fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHe=
ader"></fieldset><br><pre>** <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net">[email-masked]</a> **=0A=0ADonate: <a class=3D"moz-txt-li=
nk-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" data-mce-href=3D"htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>=0AArchiv=
e: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"=
 data-mce-href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive">http://www.team.net/archive=
</a>=0AForums: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/forums" data-mce-href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums">http://www.team.n=
et/forums</a>=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" hre=
f=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" d=
ata-mce-href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@ver=
izon.net">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]=
et</a>=0A</pre></blockquote><br><div class=3D"moz-signature">-- <br> Paul =
Tegler <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:ptegler@verizo=
n.net" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
> <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com"=
 data-mce-href=3D"http://www.teglerizer.com">www.teglerizer.com</a></div><=
/div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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