Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Horn Wiring

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 07:32:18 -0700

> The twin horns on a TR3 have two electrical connections each. The wiring
> diagram shows these as Brown with Green tracer and Brown with Black
> tracer. Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to which connector
> on the horn? 

Doesn't make any difference which is which.  The horns are not polarity
sensitive, and neither connection is grounded to the case.

-- Randall

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 07:36:31 -0700

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Keith -

As I recall, the horn doesn't care.

You probably know this but NG is fused power and (as is usual for brown
wires) always hot even with ignition off.  NB is the ground provided when
the horn button is depressed.

A black tracer generally indicates a switched ground (e.g. the wiper
motor's GB wire).

Geo

On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Keith Stewart <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> diagram shows these as Brown with Green tracer and Brown with Black tracer.
> Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to which connector on the
> horn? If so, what is the impact of attaching them the wrong way? As always,
> thanks for your input and feedback.
>
>
> Keith Stewart
> [email-masked]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Keith -</div><div><br></div><div>As I recall, the hor=
n doesn&#39;t care.</div><div><br></div><div>You probably know this but NG =
is fused power and (as is usual for brown wires) always hot even with ignit=
ion off.=C2=A0 NB is the ground provided when the horn button is depressed.=
</div><div><br></div><div>A black tracer generally indicates a switched gro=
und (e.g. the wiper motor&#39;s GB wire).</div><div><br></div><div>Geo</div=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Au=
g 27, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Keith Stewart <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"-ms-word-wrap: =
break-word;">The twin horns on a TR3 have two electrical connections each. =
The wiring diagram shows these as Brown with Green tracer and Brown with Bl=
ack tracer. Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to which connect=
or on the horn? If so, what is the impact of attaching them the wrong way? =
As always, thanks for your input and feedback.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font =
color=3D"#888888"><div><br><div>
<div style=3D"font:12px/normal Helvetica;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-transform:no=
ne;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:norma=
l"><div><br>Keith Stewart</div><div><span><a href=3D"mailto:keithstewart@be=
ll.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a></span></div><div><br></=
div></div><br style=3D"font:12px/normal Helvetica;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-tra=
nsform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-sp=
ace:normal"><br>
</div>
<br></div></font></span></div><br><br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> *=
*<br>
<br>
=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
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team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Keith Stewart <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:38:30 -0400

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> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>> The twin horns on a TR3 have two electrical connections each. The =
wiring
>> tracer. Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to which =
connector
>> on the horn?=20
>=20
> Doesn't make any difference which is which.  The horns are not =
polarity
>=20
Hmm. I have connections to each (one N/G and one N/B) and pressing the =
horn button gives a brief, muffled  hmph. Yet when I was taking one =
apart, I shorted something inside the horn that gave off a load blast =
the way it should be. Seems something must be amiss in the wiring. BTW, =
I had no connections to the horns from the N/B connectors so I made up =
two short 14 gauge wires with bullet connections.

Keith Stewart
[email-masked]=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div apple-content-edited=3D"true" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;" class=3D""><div style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto; =
orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Randall &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">The twin horns on a TR3 =
have two electrical connections each. The wiring<br class=3D"">diagram =
shows these as Brown with Green tracer and Brown with Black<br =
class=3D"">tracer. Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to =
which connector<br class=3D"">on the horn? <br class=3D""></blockquote><br=
 class=3D"">Doesn't make any difference which is which. &nbsp;The horns =
are not polarity<br class=3D"">sensitive, and neither connection is =
grounded to the case.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- Randall<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div>Hmm. I have connections to each (one =
N/G and one N/B) and pressing the horn button gives a brief, muffled =
&nbsp;hmph. Yet when I was taking one apart, I shorted something inside =
the horn that gave off a load blast the way it should be. Seems =
something must be amiss in the wiring. BTW, I had no connections to the =
horns from the N/B connectors so I made up two short 14 gauge wires with =
bullet connections.<br class=3D""><div apple-content-edited=3D"true" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Keith Stewart</div><div =
style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a></span></div></div></div></body></html=
>=

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From: Frank Fisher <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:47:52 +0000 (UTC)

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it does not matter which way you wire the horns provided they are in series. ie connect the brown wire to the same terminal on both horns.if you don't one will go directly to ground and you loose the smoke in the wire.
frank

      From: Keith Stewart <[email-masked]>
 To: [email-masked] 
 Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 6:58 AM
 Subject: [TR] TR3 Horn Wiring
   
The twin horns on a TR3 have two electrical connections each. The wiring diagram shows these as Brown with Green tracer and Brown with Black tracer. Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to which connector on the horn? If so, what is the impact of attaching them the wrong way? As always, thanks for your input and feedback.

Keith [email-masked]

   
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51066" dir=3D"ltr"><spa=
n id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51082">it does not matter which way you =
wire the horns provided they are in series. ie connect the brown wire to th=
e same terminal on both horns.</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_14406425=
51329_51066" dir=3D"ltr"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51129">if y=
ou don't one will go directly to ground and you loose the smoke in the wire=
.</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51066" dir=3D"ltr"><spa=
n><br></span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51066" dir=3D"ltr"=
><span>frank</span></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51066" dir=
=3D"ltr"><span><br></span></div><br>  <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaN=
eue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size=
: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51046"> <div style=3D"font-family=
: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-seri=
f; font-size: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51045"> <div dir=3D"l=
tr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51064"> <hr size=3D"1" id=3D"yui_3_16_=
0_1_1440642551329_51065">  <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" id=3D"yui_3_16_0=
_1_1440642551329_51063"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">From:</span><=
/b> Keith Stewart &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-=
weight: bold;">To:</span></b> [email-masked] <br> <b><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, August 27, 2015 6:58 AM<=
br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [TR] TR3 Horn=
 Wiring<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_=
1_1440642551329_51044"><br><div id=3D"yiv7887989003"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_=
1_1440642551329_51047">The twin horns on a TR3 have two electrical connecti=
ons each. The wiring diagram shows these as Brown with Green tracer and Bro=
wn with Black tracer. Is there an orientation to which wire attaches to whi=
ch connector on the horn? If so, what is the impact of attaching them the w=
rong way? As always, thanks for your input and feedback.<div class=3D"yiv78=
87989003" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51048"><br class=3D"yiv788798900=
3"><div class=3D"yiv7887989003" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51051">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;l=
ine-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word;" class=3D"yiv7887989003" id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_1_1440642551329_51050"><div style=3D"orphans:2;widows:2;" class=3D"yiv7=
887989003" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51049"><br class=3D"yiv78879890=
03Apple-interchange-newline">Keith Stewart</div><div style=3D"orphans:2;wid=
ows:2;" class=3D"yiv7887989003" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1440642551329_51052"><sp=
an style=3D"" class=3D"yiv7887989003"><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:keithstewart@bell.=
net" class=3D"yiv7887989003">[email-masked]</a></span></div><div sty=
le=3D"orphans:2;widows:2;" class=3D"yiv7887989003" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_14406=
42551329_51053"><br class=3D"yiv7887989003"></div></div><br class=3D"yiv788=
7989003Apple-interchange-newline" style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:H=
elvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:n=
ormal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transfo=
rm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><br class=3D"yiv7887989003App=
le-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D"yiv7887989003"></div></div></div><br><br>** <a ymailto=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">triumph=
[email-masked]</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donat=
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/a><br><br><br></div> </div> </div>  </div></body></html>
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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:53:48 -0700

> Hmm. I have connections to each (one N/G and one N/B) and pressing the
> horn button gives a brief, muffled  hmph. Yet when I was taking one apart,
> I shorted something inside the horn that gave off a load blast the way it
> should be. Seems something must be amiss in the wiring. 

FWIW, I fought a similar problem for a long time.  Turned out the 4-way
bullet sleeve was broken internally, but the shrunken vinyl sleeve made it
seem like the bullets were snapping into place snugly.

Randall

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:03:30 -0700

> it does not matter which way you wire the horns provided they are in
> series. 

Huh?  The horns are wired in parallel, each one gets a full 12v and either
one will work with the other disconnected.

If they were in series, then they would only get 6v each, and if one was
disconnected the other would not work.

Oh, and there is no solid brown wire to the horns.  As I think the OP noted,
the horns get brown/green (from the horn fuse), and brown/black (from the
horn button).

Randall

---

From: Keith Stewart <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 08:40:27 -0400

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> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
>> Hmm. I have connections to each (one N/G and one N/B) and pressing =
the
>> horn button gives a brief, muffled  hmph. Yet when I was taking one =
apart,
>> I shorted something inside the horn that gave off a load blast the =
way it
>> should be. Seems something must be amiss in the wiring.=20
>=20
> FWIW, I fought a similar problem for a long time.  Turned out the =
4-way
> bullet sleeve was broken internally, but the shrunken vinyl sleeve =
made it
> seem like the bullets were snapping into place snugly.
I have power at the N/G bullets and connectors. When the N/G wires are =
attached to the horn connectors, I get power at the N/B wires. When the =
horn button is pressed, all wired up this way, I very low =E2=80=9Chmph=E2=
=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbump=E2=80=9D is heard. If I remove a N/B from a horn =
and touch it to ground, the horn sounds as it should. If I remove the =
other N/B and touch it to ground, again the horn sounds as it should. I =
am guessing the horn button ground is not doing its job. Now, to trace =
where that ground connection is located. Does that logic make sense?

Keith Stewart
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_E7A85504-22B0-416C-A472-33C8C04F7B8C
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Aug 27, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Randall &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Hmm. I have connections =
to each (one N/G and one N/B) and pressing the<br class=3D"">horn button =
gives a brief, muffled &nbsp;hmph. Yet when I was taking one apart,<br =
class=3D"">I shorted something inside the horn that gave off a load =
blast the way it<br class=3D"">should be. Seems something must be amiss =
in the wiring. <br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">FWIW, I fought =
a similar problem for a long time. &nbsp;Turned out the 4-way<br =
class=3D"">bullet sleeve was broken internally, but the shrunken vinyl =
sleeve made it<br class=3D"">seem like the bullets were snapping into =
place snugly.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Randall<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div>I have power at the N/G bullets and =
connectors. When the N/G wires are attached to the horn connectors, I =
get power at the N/B wires. When the horn button is pressed, all wired =
up this way, I very low =E2=80=9Chmph=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbump=E2=80=9D =
is heard. If I remove a N/B from a horn and touch it to ground, the horn =
sounds as it should. If I remove the other N/B and touch it to ground, =
again the horn sounds as it should. I am guessing the horn button ground =
is not doing its job. Now, to trace where that ground connection is =
located. Does that logic make sense?<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Keith Stewart</div><div =
style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"text-align: -webkit-auto;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a></span></div><div style=3D"text-align:=
 -webkit-auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""></blockquote></div></div></body></html>=

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:19:02 -0400

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Keith Stewart <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I have power at the N/G bullets and connectors. When the N/G wires are
> attached to the horn connectors, I get power at the N/B wires. When the horn
> button is pressed, all wired up this way, I very low “hmph” or “bump” is
> heard. If I remove a N/B from a horn and touch it to ground, the horn sounds
> as it should. If I remove the other N/B and touch it to ground, again the
> horn sounds as it should. I am guessing the horn button ground is not doing
> its job. Now, to trace where that ground connection is located. Does that
> logic make sense?

Yes.  If you ground them directly and they sound normal, yet don't
work properly when you ground them via the horn button, they I'd say
you are on the right track.  How about the ground strap around the
flexible coupling on the steering shaft?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

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Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 06:31:52 -0700

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No ground straps or couplings on a TR3 steering column.

Yes, the problem is in the NB lead somewhere 'up stream' from the horn.
Start with the bullets you can get to but may require getting into the
control head.

Geo

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> > button is pressed, all wired up this way, I very low =E2=80=9Chmph=E2=
=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbump=E2=80=9D is
> > as it should. If I remove the other N/B and touch it to ground, again t=
he
> > its job. Now, to trace where that ground connection is located. Does th=
at
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>No ground straps or couplings on a TR3 steering colum=
n.</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, the problem is in the NB lead=C2=A0somewhe=
re &#39;up stream&#39; from the horn.=C2=A0 Start with the bullets you can =
get to but may require getting into the control head.</div><div><br></div><=
div>Geo</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On Fri, Aug 2=
8, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Keith Stewart &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
et">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I have power at the N/G bullets and connectors. When the N/G wires are=
<br>
&gt; attached to the horn connectors, I get power at the N/B wires. When th=
e horn<br>
&gt; button is pressed, all wired up this way, I very low =E2=80=9Chmph=E2=
=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cbump=E2=80=9D is<br>
&gt; heard. If I remove a N/B from a horn and touch it to ground, the horn =
sounds<br>
&gt; as it should. If I remove the other N/B and touch it to ground, again =
the<br>
&gt; horn sounds as it should. I am guessing the horn button ground is not =
doing<br>
&gt; its job. Now, to trace where that ground connection is located. Does t=
hat<br>
&gt; logic make sense?<br>
<br>
</span>Yes.=C2=A0 If you ground them directly and they sound normal, yet do=
n&#39;t<br>
work properly when you ground them via the horn button, they I&#39;d say<br=
you are on the right track.=C2=A0 How about the ground strap around the<br>
flexible coupling on the steering shaft?<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Jeff Scarbrough<br>
Corrosion Acres, Ga.<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:42:53 -0600

Sand the horn button connections and inner hub, also check that the big nut behind the steering wheel (not you) is tight. My horns were " fixed" recently by doing this.
Bud

Sent from my Commodore 64

> On Aug 28, 2015, at 7:19 AM, Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:27:41 -0700

> Now, to trace where that ground connection is
> located. Does that logic make sense?

Yup, just as Dave said.  Most likely contacts themselves, but could be
damage to the wire inside the stator tube (especially if your control head
turns with the wheel), or even less likely, a ground problem between the
head and the steering box.

The relay is a good suggestion, and in fact is just what I did before
learning that the 4-way sleeve (where the 3 NB wires joined) was the real
problem.

Randall