Subject: Re: [TR] No brakes, 64 TR4

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 09:17:07 -0700

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Paul -

Could be several things including a failed hose, stuck caliper, failed
master, etc.

I'd start by raising the car (perhaps one end at a time) and seeing if the
problem is all 4 corners or if just one or a pair of brakes are not
effective.

Of course after a long spell off the road the disc may have a nice coating
of rust that will usually clear off with use but may give you some poor
braking for the first few stops.

If not that, then my next suspect would be a bound up caliper (or two)
which would be revealed by examining as noted above.

Could be the master cylinder but master failures I have had usually either
leak or fail completely (pedal to the floor).

I doubt the immediate problem is in the rear brakes (though they may also
have a problem) as you can lose those completely and scarcely notice.

Geo

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Paul Willoughby <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Haven't driven the TR4 in a few years other than an occasional trip around
> the block every 6 months or so.  Last weekend I started it and drove it up
> the hill to the stop sign.  Uh oh, no brakes, (maybe 25% stopping power).
> Was able to coast down the hill using the e-brake with a little assist from
> the pedal.
>
> When I had started it, the brakes felt firm.  I had pumped them a couple
> times to make sure they worked.  I might have been a little over zealous
> and may have felt a pop or a snap on the last pump.  I don't drive the car
> enough to have a feel for it anymore.  But now the pedal isn't as firm.
>
> Fluid reservoir was fine, maybe 3/4" low. I rebuilt the master cylinder
> years ago and changed to silicon fluid.
>
> Can anyone steer me in the right direction for a diagnosis?  I was
> thinking broken spring in the master cylinder, but Moss doesn't list one,
> not even in the rebuild kit, so must not be a common failure.  Could I have
> pushed the little rubber plungers in the master cylinder past their stop
> point?
>
> paulw
> 56 TR3
> 64 TR4
>
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Paul -</div><div><br></div><div>Could be several thin=
gs including a failed hose, stuck caliper, failed master, etc.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>I&#39;d start by raising the car (perhaps one end at a time) a=
nd seeing if the problem is all 4 corners or if just one or a pair of brake=
s are not effective.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course after a long spell =
off the road the disc may have a nice coating of rust that will usually cle=
ar off with use but may give you some poor braking for the first few stops.=
</div><div><br></div><div>If not that, then my next suspect would be a boun=
d up caliper (or two) which would be revealed by examining as noted above.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Could be the master cylinder but master failures I=
 have had usually either leak or fail completely (pedal to the floor).</div=
><div><br></div><div>I doubt the immediate problem is in the rear brakes (t=
hough they may also have a problem) as you can lose those completely and sc=
arcely notice.</div><div><br></div><div>Geo</div><div><br></div><div><br></=
div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed,=
 Jul 29, 2015 at 8:31 AM, Paul Willoughby <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">paulwilloughby007@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div>Haven&#39;t driven the TR4 in a few years other than an occasiona=
l trip around the block every 6 months or so.=C2=A0 Last weekend I started =
it and drove it up the hill to the stop sign.=C2=A0 Uh oh, no brakes, (mayb=
e 25% stopping power).=C2=A0 Was able to coast down the hill using the e-br=
ake with a little assist from the pedal.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>When I =
had started it, the brakes felt firm.=C2=A0 I had pumped them a couple time=
s to make sure they worked.=C2=A0 I might have been a little over zealous a=
nd may have felt a pop or a snap on the last pump.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t drive =
the car enough to have a feel for it anymore.=C2=A0 But now the pedal isn&#=
39;t as firm.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Fluid reservoir was fine, maybe 3/=
4&quot; low. I rebuilt the master cylinder years ago=C2=A0and changed to=C2=
=A0silicon fluid.=C2=A0 </div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>Can anyone steer me in =
the right direction for a diagnosis?=C2=A0 I was thinking broken spring in =
the master cylinder, but Moss doesn&#39;t list one, not even in the rebuild=
 kit, so must not be a common failure.=C2=A0 Could I have pushed the little=
 rubber=C2=A0plungers in the master cylinder past their stop point?</div><d=
iv>=C2=A0</div><div>paulw</div><div>56 TR3</div><div>64 TR4</div></div>
<br><br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> *=
*<br>
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=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
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eferrer">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
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team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 15:33:57 -0400

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Start with the basics.  Do a visual inspection of all the hard lines and flex lines for leaks.  Check the pedal linkages to the master cylinder (the pin fell out of my clutch pedal on the TR3 and I thought I lost the clutch - quick fix, however).  Try bleeding the brakes.  Check the rear brake adjusters.

Since it is a TR4 you have a single circuit braking system.  If you had some braking you did not have a catastrophic hydraulic failure but you may have minor leaks that my not be immediately apparent but a closer inspection may reveal a problem.

Dave Massey

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Willoughby <[email-masked]>
To: triumphs <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2015 2:09 pm
Subject: [TR] No brakes, 64 TR4

  
Haven't driven the TR4 in a few years other than an occasional trip around the block every 6 months or so.  Last weekend I started it and drove it up the hill to the stop sign.  Uh oh, no brakes, (maybe 25% stopping power).  Was able to coast down the hill using the e-brake with a little assist from the pedal.  

When I had started it, the brakes felt firm.  I had pumped them a couple times to make sure they worked.  I might have been a little over zealous and may have felt a pop or a snap on the last pump.  I don't drive the car enough to have a feel for it anymore.  But now the pedal isn't as firm.  

Fluid reservoir was fine, maybe 3/4" low. I rebuilt the master cylinder years ago and changed to silicon fluid.    

Can anyone steer me in the right direction for a diagnosis?  I was thinking broken spring in the master cylinder, but Moss doesn't list one, not even in the rebuild kit, so must not be a common failure.  Could I have pushed the little rubber plungers in the master cylinder past their stop point?  

paulw  
  
56 TR3  
  
64 TR4  

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<font color='black' size='4' face='Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif'>
<font size="4">Start with the basics.&nbsp; Do a visual inspection of all the hard lines and flex lines for leaks.&nbsp; Check the pedal linkages to the master cylinder (the pin fell out of my clutch pedal on the TR3 and I thought I lost the clutch - quick fix, however).&nbsp; Try bleeding the brakes.&nbsp; Check the rear brake adjusters.<br>
<br>
Since it is a TR4 you have a single circuit braking system.&nbsp; If you had some braking you did not have a catastrophic hydraulic failure but you may have minor leaks that my not be immediately apparent but a closer inspection may reveal a problem.<br>
</font>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style="clear:both"><font size="4">Dave Massey</font><br>

<br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div> <br>

</div>

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>

From: Paul Willoughby &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

To: triumphs &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>

Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2015 2:09 pm<br>

Subject: [TR] No brakes, 64 TR4<br>

<br>

<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_46c77a42-edb2-4d4a-9e22-5f8646d442f3">

<div class="aolReplacedBody">

<div dir="ltr">

<div>
Haven't driven the TR4 in a few years other than an occasional trip around the block every 6 months or so.&nbsp; Last weekend I started it and drove it up the hill to the stop sign.&nbsp; Uh oh, no brakes, (maybe 25% stopping power).&nbsp; Was able to coast down the hill using the e-brake with a little assist from the pedal.
  </div>

<div>
&nbsp;
  </div>

<div>
When I had started it, the brakes felt firm.&nbsp; I had pumped them a couple times to make sure they worked.&nbsp; I might have been a little over zealous and may have felt a pop or a snap on the last pump.&nbsp; I don't drive the car enough to have a feel for it anymore.&nbsp; But now the pedal isn't as firm.
  </div>

<div>
&nbsp;
  </div>

<div>
Fluid reservoir was fine, maybe 3/4" low. I rebuilt the master cylinder years ago&nbsp;and changed to&nbsp;silicon fluid.&nbsp; 
  </div>

<div>
&nbsp;
  </div>

<div>
Can anyone steer me in the right direction for a diagnosis?&nbsp; I was thinking broken spring in the master cylinder, but Moss doesn't list one, not even in the rebuild kit, so must not be a common failure.&nbsp; Could I have pushed the little rubber&nbsp;plungers in the master cylinder past their stop point?
  </div>

<div>
&nbsp;
  </div>

<div>
paulw
  </div>

<div>
56 TR3
  </div>

<div>
64 TR4
  </div>

 </div>

</div>

</div>

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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt><a removedlink__5b48f2ee-8072-4185-b150-a50937328f92__href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]" target="_blank"></a>
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:03:42 +0000 (UTC)

Budget lock????  All right.  I confess, I put the rear tire well lid on with pretty new toilet seat escutcheons about 13 years ago and haven't opened it since.  Now I can't remember the fastener used.  Looks like a duzi.  Used a long-handled flathead, and found it's a simple lever.  Guess that's why it's a budget lock.

Sourced a old style 48 spoke wheel, restored it, tubed it, and planted a nice narrow tire on it.  Alas, the opening is too narrow to accommodate the spline/hub.

Are old steel wheels the only option to carry a spare?  Anyone every put the spare on the trunk with some ad hoc but cool looking assembly?

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A
New Hampshire

---

From: Michael Marr <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:20:34 +0000

My spare tyre compartment will hold a 48 spoker with an OEM bias ply tyre, which I think is a 5.50, if I remember correctly.  It's a while since I looked at it, but I seem to remember it fits best with the knock off taper seat oriented downwards.

Mike

Michael Marr
Albion Technical Services
Mobile:  630-202-0065

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 4:04 PM, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:41:28 +0000 (UTC)

Cigar to Michael Marr!

If I lived in the upside down state of Vermont, I'd have tried that first!

Thanks, Michael.

Terry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Marr" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 6:20:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Budget Lock

Mike

Michael Marr

Sent from my iPad

---

From: Michael Marr <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:46:41 +0000

Don't smoke 'em, but feel free to buy me a porter if we ever meet :)

Mike

Michael Marr

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 5:41 PM, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Cigar to Michael Marr!
>

---

From: "dave n" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 21:23:57 -0500

+1 on that

-----Original Message----- 
From: Michael Marr
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:20 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Budget Lock

My spare tyre compartment will hold a 48 spoker with an OEM bias ply tyre, 
which I think is a 5.50, if I remember correctly.  It's a while since I 
looked at it, but I seem to remember it fits best with the knock off taper 
seat oriented downwards.

Mike

Michael Marr

Sent from my iPad

> Budget lock????  All right.  I confess, I put the rear tire well lid on 
> with pretty new toilet seat escutcheons about 13 years ago and haven't 
> opened it since.  Now I can't remember the fastener used.  Looks like a 
> duzi.  Used a long-handled flathead, and found it's a simple lever.  Guess 
> that's why it's a budget lock.
>
> Sourced a old style 48 spoke wheel, restored it, tubed it, and planted a 
> nice narrow tire on it.  Alas, the opening is too narrow to accommodate 
> the spline/hub.
>
> Are old steel wheels the only option to carry a spare?  Anyone every put 
> the spare on the trunk with some ad hoc but cool looking assembly?
>
> Terry Smith, '59 TR3A
> New Hampshire
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:18:59 +0000 (UTC)

Have a great porter aging in the cellar since just before last Christmas.  Promised my son in Kuwait that we would crack it open for the first time when he gets home.  

If there's any left, you're welcome to a bottle!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Marr" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 6:46:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 Budget Lock

Mike

Michael Marr

Sent from my iPad

---

From: Michael Marr <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 21:25:43 +0000

Nah, it's best to enjoy it with your son. 

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2015, at 15:19, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> wrote:
>