Subject: Re: [TR] Triumph Keys

From: "Dixie4" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 11:20:14 +0100

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You really need to contact Pete Groh, he is the key expert. He is on =
this list.

Adrian=20
1966 TR4A CT64306 O
Wales UK
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Chuck White=20
  To: [email-masked]=20
  Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:36 AM
  Subject: [TR] Triumph Keys

  I've been stumped by this for a while and cannot find answers in any =
of the available "originality" books.  I'm hoping you can help.

  =20

  My Heritage Certificate lists 3 different key numbers for my 1965 TR4A =
(2 are FS numbers and 1 is an FT number) yet the owner's handbook cites =
there were only two keys; 1 for the ignition & doors, and 1 for the =
glove box and boot.  What did the 3 keys identified on my Heritage =
Certificate fit?  I have one of the original FS keys (Wilmot Breeden =
with a hexagonal head) and it fits the ignition, doors, and boot (I =
suspect this is wrong) but not the glove box.  I have not disassembled =
the glove box or boot locks to determine what numbers are stamped on =
them but the ignition and door locks have matching FS numbers to my =
original key.  Would the glove box and boot locks originally have had =
different keys?

  =20

  Did each of the different key types (i.e., FS & FT) have different and =
specific head shapes?

  =20

  Thanks!

  =20

  Chuck

  =20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You really need to contact Pete Groh, =
he is the key=20
expert. He is on this list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1966 TR4A CT64306 O</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wales UK</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked] =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Chuck=20
  White</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 22, 2015 =
10:36 AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TR] Triumph =
Keys</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DWordSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst>I=92ve been stumped by this for a while =
and cannot=20
  find answers in any of the available =93originality=94 books.&nbsp; =
I=92m hoping you=20
  can help.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle>My Heritage Certificate lists 3 =
different key=20
  numbers for my 1965 TR4A (2 are FS numbers and 1 is an FT number) yet =
the=20
  owner's handbook cites there were only two keys; 1 for the ignition =
&amp;=20
  doors, and 1 for the glove box and boot.&nbsp; What&nbsp;did the 3 =
keys=20
  identified on my Heritage Certificate fit?&nbsp; I have one of the =
original FS=20
  keys (Wilmot Breeden with a hexagonal head) and it fits the ignition, =
doors,=20
  and boot (I suspect this is wrong) but not the glove box.&nbsp; I have =
not=20
  disassembled the glove box or boot locks to determine what numbers are =
stamped=20
  on them but the ignition and door locks have matching FS numbers to my =

  original key.&nbsp; Would the glove box and boot locks originally have =
had=20
  different keys?<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle>Did each of the different key types =
(i.e., FS=20
  &amp; FT) have different and specific head shapes?<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle>Chuck<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpLast><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 11:20:01 +0100

Chuck

On your Heritage Certificate, does it give any suggestion of the car being
delivered to its first owner in the UK or Europe under the personal export
scheme? If it does, then the car 'accommodates' a full US spec, together
with a requirement for use in Europe of separate keys for ignition/doors (1)
boot (2) and glovebox (3).
If the HC states the car was shipped direct to a US port, then it would
probably have been a cancelled personal export order and the car had already
been produced. As delivery status was changed from UK/Europe to Direct
Shipment , then it's likely that Sales Conversion would have changed the
lock on the boot to match the ignition and doors.
Of course, if you didn't buy the car new and it may have had one or more
previous owners, who knows what they might have done?
Moral? Don't believe everything you read in handbooks and workshop manuals:)
There were many, many caveats and exceptions...................

Jonmac 

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From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 06:19:09 -0700

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On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Chuck White <[email-masked]>
wrote:

Did each of the different key types (i.e., FS & FT) have different and
> specific head shapes?

As far as I know. all the various key profiles (FS, et al) each came in any
of the usual shapes (round, oval, hex).  The oval is like an Indy oval, not
an ellipse.  The hex is like a Texaco sign, not a true hexagon.

Geo

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 2:36 AM=
, Chuck White <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumph.driver@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div lang=3D"EN-US" v=
link=3D"#954F72" link=3D"#0563C1"><div><p>Did each of the different key typ=
es (i.e., FS &amp; FT) have different and specific head shapes?</p></div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>As far as I know. all the various key =
profiles (FS, et al) each came in any of the usual shapes (round, oval, hex=
).=C2=A0 The oval is like an Indy oval, not an ellipse.=C2=A0 The hex is li=
ke a Texaco sign, not a true hexagon.</div><div><br></div><div>Geo</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div></div>

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 16:12:18 +0100

Then it's probably safe to assume it was a cancelled personal export order
and Sales Conversion never got around to doing all the work it should have
done. Probably done on a Friday afternoon when everyone went home early or
because of an imminent strike. I prefer the second option.

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck White [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 22 May 2015 12:14
To: 'John Macartney'; [email-masked]
Cc: Roy Simpson
Subject: RE: [TR] Triumph Keys

Thanks, Jonmac.  That would help explain it.  The car was delivered from the
UK directly to a Triumph dealer in Texas.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: John Macartney [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 6:20 AM
To: 'Chuck White'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [TR] Triumph Keys
Chuck

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