Subject: [TR] Ehat is the proper rear camber setting for the TR4A?

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:19:33 +0000 (UTC)

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Over the winter I installed the Goodparts rear axles in my TR4a. I also replaced the springs with the "stock" type Moss sells made by Suplex. It is not clear to me if these are actually the "stock" spring rate for a 4A. In one of the Moss catalogs it is listed as "stock" and in another it is listed as an "upgrade", but both have the same Moss part number. The uncompressed spring length is identical to the old springs, but I am not sure of the spring rate. I also installed some poly spring buffers at the same time. 

I did have one interesting, unexpected, finding as I was doing this. I had a broken coil spring on the driver's side! I never knew!! And the ride height seemed OK, as did the camber: a little negative (top tilted inward) sitting unladen. I found that the spring had broken near the top with about 1 turn broken free. The broken piece had shifted a little and the remaining intact spring mostly articulated in its proper seat. I think I know when this happened. About 2006! I was driving spiritedly, and crested a hill, and got more lift than I expected (no actual air, though!), and as I came down hard, I heard a metallic clank in the rear. I was also hitting the brakes fairly hard and thought it was the brake cylinder hanging up and then centering itself. the broken coil was invisible until the spring is about to be removed. 

Anyway, after the upgrade this winter, the car looked to have a lot of positive camber, but I could not get the car out to drive it around to let the suspension settle fully. I did get it out this week, and the suspension DID settle, but there is still some positive camber, with no extra weight in the car, and about 1/2 tank of gas. I am not sure how much camber: It is just enough for me to say it its definitely not perfectly vertical. Both sides seem to be symmetrical. By eye I'd estimate the camber as 1 degree positive. 

I have looked in the Haynes manual , and the factory service manual, and I do not see the rear camber specs. I think I will let the suspension settle more, and drive the car a bit before making any changes. I may have to get the Goodparts adjustable brackets. It is a MAJOR PITA to remove the trailing arms with the Goodparts axles in place, btw. I should have installed them this winter, in retrospect, but I hoped to keep it simple and not require a full rear alignment job. 

I google searched and found 3 different camber settings for the TR6. Nothing specifically for the 4A. One reference says +1.0 to -0.25 degrees. Another says -1.0 +/- 0.5 (IOW -0.5 to -1.5). And the third says +0.5 to -1.0 degrees. None of these specifically state if these are laden or unladen settings. And maybe that is the reason for some of the differences. Maybe it is assumed that ALL settings are ALWAYS with laden conditions (150 lbs in both seats)?? 

What settings should I use? Laden or unladen? How much lading? 

-Tony 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><div>Over the winter I installed the Goodparts rear axles in my TR4a.&n=
bsp; I also replaced the springs with the "stock" type Moss sells made by S=
uplex.&nbsp; It is not clear to me if these are actually the "stock" spring=
 rate for a 4A.&nbsp; In one of the Moss catalogs it is listed as "stock" a=
nd in another it is listed as an "upgrade", but both have the same Moss par=
t number.&nbsp; The uncompressed spring length is identical to the old spri=
ngs, but I am not sure of the spring rate. I also installed some poly sprin=
g buffers at the same time.&nbsp; <br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div><br><=
/div><div>I did have one interesting, unexpected, finding as I was doing th=
is.&nbsp; I had a broken coil spring on the driver's side!&nbsp; I never kn=
ew!!&nbsp; And the ride height seemed OK, as did the camber:&nbsp; a little=
 negative (top tilted inward) sitting unladen.&nbsp; I found that the sprin=
g had broken near the top with about 1 turn broken free.&nbsp;&nbsp; The br=
oken piece had shifted a little and the remaining intact spring mostly arti=
culated in its proper seat.&nbsp; I think I know when this happened.&nbsp; =
About 2006!&nbsp; I was driving spiritedly, and crested a hill, and got mor=
e lift than I expected (no actual air, though!), and as I came down hard, I=
 heard a metallic clank in the rear.&nbsp; I was also hitting the brakes fa=
irly hard and thought it was the brake cylinder hanging up and then centeri=
ng itself. the broken coil was invisible until the spring is about to be re=
moved.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, after the upgrade this winter, =
the car looked to have a lot of positive camber, but I could not get the ca=
r out to drive it around to let the suspension settle fully.&nbsp; I did ge=
t it out this week, and the suspension DID settle, but there is still some =
positive camber, with no extra weight in the car, and about 1/2 tank of gas=
.&nbsp; I am not sure how much camber:&nbsp; It is just enough for me to sa=
y it its definitely not perfectly vertical.&nbsp; Both sides seem to be sym=
metrical.&nbsp; By eye I'd estimate the camber as 1 degree positive.<br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>I have looked in the Haynes manual , and the factory=
 service manual, and I do not see the rear camber specs.&nbsp; I think I wi=
ll let the suspension settle more, and drive the car a bit before making an=
y changes.&nbsp; I may have to get the Goodparts adjustable brackets.&nbsp;=
 It is a MAJOR PITA to remove the trailing arms with the Goodparts axles in=
 place, btw.&nbsp; I should have installed them this winter, in retrospect,=
 but I hoped to keep it simple and not require a full rear alignment job.<b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>I google searched and found 3 different camber =
settings for the TR6.&nbsp; Nothing specifically for the 4A.&nbsp; One refe=
rence says +1.0 to -0.25 degrees.&nbsp; Another says -1.0 +/- 0.5 (IOW -0.5=
 to -1.5).&nbsp; And the third says +0.5 to -1.0 degrees.&nbsp; None of the=
se specifically state if these are laden or unladen settings.&nbsp; And may=
be that is the reason for some of the differences.&nbsp; Maybe it is assume=
d that ALL settings are ALWAYS with laden conditions (150 lbs in both seats=
)??<br></div><div><br></div><div>What settings should I use?&nbsp; Laden or=
 unladen?&nbsp; How much lading?<br></div><div><br></div><div>-Tony<br></di=
v></div></body></html>
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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:11:58 -0400

> What settings should I use?  Laden or unladen?  How much lading?

Typically, a coconut is used for lading purposes when testing
swallows.  Perhaps a dozen or so in each seat would work for a TR4?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

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From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:25:59 -0700

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On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 5:19 AM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

>  ..By eye I'd estimate the camber as 1 degree positive...
>

Tony -

This post (from elsewhere) explains one way to measure camber using stuff
you probably already have:

http://forums.jag-lovers.org/avsn.php?1669986o94

I have emplyed this method with good results.  I skipped the Excel
formula and just used the arctangent key on my calculator (the one
probably labeled tan-*1*).

Geo

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Apr 3, 2015 at 5:19 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spamia=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fo=
nt-family:Arial;font-size:12pt"><div>=C2=A0..By eye I&#39;d estimate the ca=
mber as 1 degree positive...<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Tony -</div><div><br></div><div>This post (from else=
where) explains one way to measure camber=C2=A0using stuff you probably alr=
eady have:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://forums.jag-lovers.org=
/avsn.php?1669986o94">http://forums.jag-lovers.org/avsn.php?1669986o94</a><=
/div><div><br></div><div>I have emplyed this method with good results.=C2=
=A0 I skipped the Excel formula=C2=A0and just used the arctangent key on my=
 calculator (the one probably=C2=A0labeled <font color=3D"#6a6a6a">tan</fon=
t><sup>-<em><font color=3D"#6a6a6a">1</font></em></sup>).</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Geo</div></div></div></div>

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