Subject: [TR] TR3 Solenoid suggestion

From: "Andrew Uprichard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:32:24 -0400

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

--===============5393712657596525421==
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01D07620.927422A0"
Content-Language: en-us

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D07620.927422A0
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So I just fried a new gear-reduction starter (for an early TR3) by putting
in a smallmouth starter with a bolt-on flywheel ring gear. Grrrrr.

Anyway, when I bought a replacement (correct) starter today, I got into a
discussion about starter solenoids.  I must admit I like the "button"
feature as it allows me to start a car while fiddling with the carb and
choke, even the timing.  Well, modern starters have their own solenoids, so
many just bypass the solenoid on the firewall.  Or you can keep the original
configuration and bypass the solenoid on the new starter.  But what was
suggested to me was to connect both thick cables (battery and starter) to
one pole on the solenoid, and connect a standard wire between the other pole
and the starter solenoid. It was explained to me that this allows one to
keep the "button", while also extending the life of the original firewall
solenoid.

I tried it, and it worked fine (today I started a TR3 which hadn't run since
1975!).  So, my question is, is the logic correct and is this a preferred
way of keeping the "button" when installing gear-reduction starters on our
cars?

Andrew Uprichard

Elated after resurrecting a TR3

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D07620.927422A0
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META =
HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 =
(filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri;
	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
	{mso-style-priority:99;
	color:purple;
	text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
	{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
	color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
	{mso-style-type:export-only;
	font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
@page WordSection1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
	{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>So I just =
fried a new gear-reduction starter (for an early TR3) by putting in a =
smallmouth starter with a bolt-on flywheel ring gear. =
Grrrrr.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Anyway, when I bought a replacement (correct) starter =
today, I got into a discussion about starter solenoids.&nbsp; I must =
admit I like the &#8220;button&#8221; feature as it allows me to start a =
car while fiddling with the carb and choke, even the timing.&nbsp; Well, =
modern starters have their own solenoids, so many just bypass the =
solenoid on the firewall.&nbsp; Or you can keep the original =
configuration and bypass the solenoid on the new starter.&nbsp; But what =
was suggested to me was to connect both thick cables (battery and =
starter) to one pole on the solenoid, and connect a standard wire =
between the other pole and the starter solenoid. It was explained to me =
that this allows one to keep the &#8220;button&#8221;, while also =
extending the life of the original firewall solenoid.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I tried it, =
and it worked fine (today I started a TR3 which hadn&#8217;t run since =
1975!).&nbsp; So, my question is, is the logic correct and is this a =
preferred way of keeping the &#8220;button&#8221; when installing =
gear-reduction starters on our cars?<br><br>Andrew =
Uprichard<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Elated after resurrecting a =
TR3<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D07620.927422A0--

--===============5393712657596525421==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

--===============5393712657596525421==--

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:50:50 -0700

> But what was suggested to me was to connect both 
> thick cables (battery and starter) to one pole on the 
> solenoid, and connect a standard wire between the other pole 
> and the starter solenoid. It was explained to me that this 
> allows one to keep the "button", while also extending the 
> life of the original firewall solenoid.

> I tried it, and it worked fine (today I started a TR3 which 
> hadn't run since 1975!).  So, my question is, is the logic 
> correct and is this a preferred way of keeping the "button" 
> when installing gear-reduction starters on our cars?

It is certainly the way I prefer, and I've said so several times.  I've been running that way since 2001 or so; with an original
solenoid that lost some of it's smoke on the way home from VTR 2000.

Another benefit of this connection is that the solenoid on the Hitachi gear-drive starter draws a lot more current than the original
TR3 solenoid.  If you wire the original switch to the new solenoid, it may shorten the life of the switch.

-- Randall

---

From: "Dixie4" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 04:23:08 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--===============0502252263791903112==
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0523_01D0766A.B62C6C80"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0523_01D0766A.B62C6C80
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Could the original solenoid just be wired in series to the new starter =
solenoid with a piggyback small wire from one solenoid to the other?
I can not grasp how Andrews' way would work on the button without some =
wiring to the small spade connections.

Forgive me if this is not correct as electrics are not my strongpoint.

I wish to retain the original solenoid with a Hi Torque starter on a 4A =
as the solenoid is so visually prominent attached to the battery =
carrier. Plus, I spent an exceptional amount of time finding a year code =
perfect NOS replacement solenoid prior to purchasing the Japanese =
starter.
Being able to use the button on the old type solenoid would be a =
distinct advantage for everything from setting the timing to resetting =
the tappets.

Adrian 1966 TR4A CT64306 O
Wales UK.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Andrew Uprichard=20
  To: [email-masked]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 12:32 AM
  Subject: [TR] TR3 Solenoid suggestion

  So I just fried a new gear-reduction starter (for an early TR3) by =
putting in a smallmouth starter with a bolt-on flywheel ring gear. =
Grrrrr.

  =20

  Anyway, when I bought a replacement (correct) starter today, I got =
into a discussion about starter solenoids.  I must admit I like the =
"button" feature as it allows me to start a car while fiddling with the =
carb and choke, even the timing.  Well, modern starters have their own =
solenoids, so many just bypass the solenoid on the firewall.  Or you can =
keep the original configuration and bypass the solenoid on the new =
starter.  But what was suggested to me was to connect both thick cables =
(battery and starter) to one pole on the solenoid, and connect a =
standard wire between the other pole and the starter solenoid. It was =
explained to me that this allows one to keep the "button", while also =
extending the life of the original firewall solenoid.

  =20

  I tried it, and it worked fine (today I started a TR3 which hadn't run =
since 1975!).  So, my question is, is the logic correct and is this a =
preferred way of keeping the "button" when installing gear-reduction =
starters on our cars?

  Andrew Uprichard

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
  Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
  Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
  Unsubscribe/Manage: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2015.0.5863 / Virus Database: 4328/9529 - Release Date: =
04/13/15

------=_NextPart_000_0523_01D0766A.B62C6C80
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m =3D=20
"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6001.18639" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE>@font-face {
	font-family: Calibri;
}
@page WordSection1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; =
}
P.MsoNormal {
	FONT-SIZE: 11pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri","sans-serif"
}
LI.MsoNormal {
	FONT-SIZE: 11pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri","sans-serif"
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
	FONT-SIZE: 11pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Calibri","sans-serif"
}
A:link {
	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
A:visited {
	COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
	COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99
}
SPAN.EmailStyle17 {
	COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-style-type: =
personal-compose
}
.MsoChpDefault {
	FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-style-type: export-only
}
DIV.WordSection1 {
	page: WordSection1
}
</STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could the original solenoid just be =
wired in series=20
to the new starter solenoid with a piggyback small wire from one =
solenoid to the=20
other?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can not grasp how Andrews' way would =
work on the=20
button without some wiring to the small spade connections.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Forgive me if this is not correct as =
electrics are=20
not my strongpoint.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish to retain the original solenoid =
with a Hi=20
Torque starter&nbsp;on a 4A as&nbsp;the solenoid&nbsp;is so visually =
prominent=20
attached to the battery carrier. Plus, I spent an exceptional amount of =
time=20
finding a year code perfect NOS replacement&nbsp;solenoid prior to =
purchasing=20
the Japanese starter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Being able to use the button on the old =
type=20
solenoid would be a distinct advantage for everything from setting the =
timing to=20
resetting the tappets.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian 1966 TR4A CT64306 O</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wales UK.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Andrew Uprichard</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 14, 2015 =
12:32=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TR] TR3 Solenoid=20
  suggestion</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DWordSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>So I just fried a new gear-reduction starter (for =
an early=20
  TR3) by putting in a smallmouth starter with a bolt-on flywheel ring =
gear.=20
  Grrrrr.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Anyway, when I bought a replacement (correct) =
starter=20
  today, I got into a discussion about starter solenoids.&nbsp; I must =
admit I=20
  like the =93button=94 feature as it allows me to start a car while =
fiddling with=20
  the carb and choke, even the timing.&nbsp; Well, modern starters have =
their=20
  own solenoids, so many just bypass the solenoid on the firewall.&nbsp; =
Or you=20
  can keep the original configuration and bypass the solenoid on the new =

  starter.&nbsp; But what was suggested to me was to connect both thick =
cables=20
  (battery and starter) to one pole on the solenoid, and connect a =
standard wire=20
  between the other pole and the starter solenoid. It was explained to =
me that=20
  this allows one to keep the =93button=94, while also extending the =
life of the=20
  original firewall solenoid.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>I tried it, and it worked fine (today I started a =
TR3 which=20
  hadn=92t run since 1975!).&nbsp; So, my question is, is the logic =
correct and is=20
  this a preferred way of keeping the =93button=94 when installing =
gear-reduction=20
  starters on our cars?<BR><BR>Andrew Uprichard<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Elated after resurrecting a =
TR3<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P><BR>** [email-masked] **<BR><BR>Donate:=20
  http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR>Archive:=20
  http://www.team.net/archive<BR>Forums:=20
  http://www.team.net/forums<BR>Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
  =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]<BR=
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P><A></A>
  <P class=3D"" align=3Dleft color=3D"#000000" avgcert??>No virus found =
in this=20
  message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2015.0.5863 / =
Virus=20
  Database: 4328/9529 - Release Date: =
04/13/15</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0523_01D0766A.B62C6C80--

--===============0502252263791903112==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

--===============0502252263791903112==--