Subject: [TR] Accessory power in +ground TR3

From: "Carl TR" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 17:31:46 -0400

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Has anyone installed a second battery (-ground) to power accessories in a
TR3?   I am planning a fairly lengthy road trip this summer and would like
the benefits of GPS, phone charger, and maybe computer hookup. 

I am wondering if it is possible to create a completely closed wiring setup
for that purpose using a smaller motorcycle or marine battery.  It would
require charging periodically (or a trickle charger) and be completely
insulated from the body/frame.  

What would I need between the battery and accessory outlets (besides a fuse
box)?  

Any thoughts or suggestions?  (or is it even possible?)

Thanks

Carl

1961 Triumph TR3A - TS81802LO

http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/  - Verizon has discontinued the mysite
URL.  Looking for a new home.

Tampa, FL

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Has anyone =
installed a second battery (-ground) to power accessories in a =
TR3?&nbsp;&nbsp; I am planning a fairly lengthy road trip this summer =
and would like the benefits of GPS, phone charger, and maybe computer =
hookup. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I am wondering if it is possible to create a =
completely closed wiring setup for that purpose using a smaller =
motorcycle or marine battery.&nbsp; It would require charging =
periodically (or a trickle charger) and be completely insulated from the =
body/frame.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>What would I =
need between the battery and accessory outlets (besides a fuse =
box)?&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><img width=3D1201 =
height=3D415 id=3D"Picture_x0020_2" =
src=3D"cid:[email-masked]"><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Any thoughts =
or suggestions?&nbsp; (or is it even possible?)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Carl<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>1961 Triumph TR3A =
&#8211; TS81802LO<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/&nbsp; - Verizon has =
discontinued the mysite URL.&nbsp; Looking for a new =
home.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Tampa, FL<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:51:56 -0700

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I assume you're talking about the case where the car is still positive ground?
 
I'm sure it could be done.  Sure would be a lot simpler and easier (and less chance for disaster if east should meet west) to just
convert the car to negative ground, though.  
 
There would be no need to completely isolate the secondary negative ground system from the body (most radios have a ground path
through the antenna mount anyway).  You could just connect the negative side of the secondary battery to ground.  There is also
nothing needed at the point you have marked "regulator or control box", unless perhaps you want to put in a master switch or add a
connector for the trickle charger.
 
You could even setup an isolated DC-to-DC converter to charge the secondary battery from the main battery.  (And if it had enough
capacity, even eliminate the battery entirely).
 
Yet another option (though not one I would particularly recommend) is to just install outlets wired negative ground, isolated from
the body.  As long as your computer, GPS, etc don't touch bare metal in any other way, that will work fine.  Watch out for the
radio, though, many of them have paths to ground through both the case and the antenna, even if they do have separate ground leads.

-- Randall 

  _____  

From: Triumphs [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Carl TR
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 2:32 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TR] Accessory power in +ground TR3

Has anyone installed a second battery (-ground) to power accessories in a TR3?   I am planning a fairly lengthy road trip this
summer and would like the benefits of GPS, phone charger, and maybe computer hookup. 

I am wondering if it is possible to create a completely closed wiring setup for that purpose using a smaller motorcycle or marine
battery.  It would require charging periodically (or a trickle charger) and be completely insulated from the body/frame.  

What would I need between the battery and accessory outlets (besides a fuse box)?  

Thanks

Carl

http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/  - Verizon has discontinued the mysite URL.  Looking for a new home.

Tampa, FL

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>I assume you're talking about the case where the =
car is still=20
positive ground?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>I'm sure it could be done.&nbsp; Sure would be a =
lot simpler=20
and easier (and less chance for disaster if east should meet west) to =
just=20
convert the car to negative ground, though.&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>There would be no need to completely isolate the =
secondary=20
negative ground system from the body (most radios have a ground path =
through the=20
antenna mount anyway).&nbsp; You could just connect the negative side of =
the=20
secondary battery to ground.&nbsp; There is also nothing needed at the =
point you=20
have marked "regulator or control box", unless perhaps you want to put =
in a=20
master switch or add a connector for the trickle =
charger.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>You could even setup an isolated DC-to-DC =
converter to charge=20
the secondary battery from the main battery.&nbsp; (And if it had enough =

capacity, even eliminate the battery entirely).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D791454121-12032015><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>Yet another option (though not one I would =
particularly=20
recommend) is to just install outlets wired negative ground, isolated =
from the=20
body.&nbsp; As long as your computer, GPS, etc don't touch bare metal in =
any=20
other way, that will work fine.&nbsp; Watch out for the radio, though, =
many of=20
them have paths to ground through both the case and the antenna, even if =
they do=20
have separate ground leads.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from =
text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=3D2>-- Randall </FONT></P>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3DOutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> Triumphs=20
  [mailto:[email-masked]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Carl=20
  TR<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 12, 2015 2:32 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TR] Accessory power in =
+ground=20
  TR3<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DWordSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Has anyone installed a second battery (-ground) =
to power=20
  accessories in a TR3?&nbsp;&nbsp; I am planning a fairly lengthy road =
trip=20
  this summer and would like the benefits of GPS, phone charger, and =
maybe=20
  computer hookup. <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>I am wondering if it is possible to create a =
completely=20
  closed wiring setup for that purpose using a smaller motorcycle or =
marine=20
  battery.&nbsp; It would require charging periodically (or a trickle =
charger)=20
  and be completely insulated from the body/frame.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>What would I need between the battery and =
accessory outlets=20
  (besides a fuse box)?&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><IMG id=3DPicture_x0020_2 =
src=3D"cid:791454121@12032015-1550"=20
  width=3D1201 height=3D415><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Any thoughts or suggestions?&nbsp; (or is it even =

  possible?)<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
#1f497d">Carl<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">1961 Triumph TR3A =
&#8211;=20
  TS81802LO<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>http://mysite.verizon.net/cfmtr3a/&nbsp; - =
Verizon has=20
  discontinued the mysite URL.&nbsp; Looking for a new =
home.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Tampa,=20
FL<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 22:50:31 -0700

> Maybe I haven't grabbed the concept here but if the plan is 
> to run a GPS, phone charger or laptop - or two out of three 
> at any one time, what's wrong with plugging in to a cigar 
> lighter socket? I do it all the time with just three 
> different leads relevant to what needs to be charged.

The problem here is that Carl has kept his TR3 positive ground as original.  I daresay you have later cars that are negative ground.

One issue is that the shell of the cigar lighter is assumed to be negative by most electrical devices.  Some can be damaged by
reverse polarity, others just won't work.

Of course, it is possible to find cigar lighters with the shell isolated from the mount (or build an isolated mount yourself) and so
wire it so the shell is negative.  But then that introduces the chance of a sneak ground path to the car body causing a short.

As an extreme example, a friend of mine once wired a Citizens Band radio to his positive ground MGA that way (although he wired it
directly instead of using a cigar lighter).  He clamped the antenna to the rear bumper and we set off together on a 3000 mile trip.
The radios worked fine at first, we had a lot of fun talking back and forth while driving.  (This was long before the days of smart
phones and laptops.)

Somewhere in North Carolina, the rusty bolts in his back bumper finally wiggled around and shed enough rust to make good electrical
contact to the frame.  The first thing he knew, the cockpit filled with smoke!  Of course the ground lead for the radio had no fuse
(although there was one in the hot lead) and he had not thought to add one to the "ground" lead.  And the antenna clamp was grounded
through the antenna lead to the radio.

He got it safely stopped and put the fire out, but the wiring harness was pretty well toasted.  We robbed a headlight lead to run a
hot wire to the coil, so he could drive to a car parts store where we bought some fresh wire and jumpered around the burned sections
of harness.  We completed the trip that way, but I don't know if he ever did get the harness repaired.  He eventually moved to
Germany and the poor MGA got relegated to a barn in the states, where the rats had their way with the leather upholstery and
probably whatever unburned wiring was left.  Might be there yet (but I doubt it).

-- Randall