Subject: Re: [TR] A rose by any other name? (A bit of Standard Triumph history for them wots interested)

From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 08:54:06 -0600

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John, your recollections are always a delight.  Keep 'em coming!

Don

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:44 AM, John Macartney <[email-masked]
> wrote:

> Hi, List
>
> Over the Christmas and New Year break, Liz and I have been busy going
> through our possessions. We're 'downsizing' home-wise and too much of the
> stuff "that'll come in useful one day" has had to be reviewed. As you can
> imagine, as someone who spent a lifetime in the UK auto industry, I've
> managed to accumulate quite a lot of "come in useful one day" items. Dec 26
> saw me making a start on evaluating several thousand 35mm colour slides of
> vacations in Europe in Standard cars (Vanguards and a Standard Ten
> Companion
> - aka Triumph Ten Wagon) when they were new and I've kept back too many
> cherished pix to be later scanned to a hard disk. It's only sentiment as I
> just can't bring myself to throw them out.
>
> I then got into some of Dad's many internal reports from Canley days dating
> from the mid-fifties and early sixties - before Leyland appeared in
> Coventry
> - and there are two little aspects I've uncovered this far that I thought
> might entertain you?
>
> The first one relates to the hieroglyphics (my spelling?) on instrument
> panel controls. Standard Triumph was probably the first UK manufacturer to
> adopt them on the 1200 Herald / TR4 and this was not without its problems
> back in the day. Up until then, car users had long become accustomed to
> words on a knob to describe its function while today, several generations
> have grown up intuitively knowing what a symbol means. For example, the
> image of a heater matrix radiating warm air was perceived to be something
> to
> do with a set of false teeth (!!!!) while the symbol of a throttle
> butterfly
> in a venturi for the choke completely foxed the majority. It was a series
> of
> reports about these hieroglyphs and overseas markets that I found most
> entertaining but that's worth another story when I've read the rest of the
> reports. It seems the French and the Italians were greatly against English
> words on control knobs and argued with some rationale that they should
> reflect the local languages. They argued that if you could build a car with
> varying national specs (laminated windscreens, different wiring looms to
> meet local requirements and laws, LH steering, kilometre speedos et al)
> then
> local wording on knobs shouldn't be a problem.
>
> The French argued and won for 'Eclairage' for lights, 'Chauffage' for
> heating (where the false teeth symbol would later appear), 'Essuies' for
> wipers, 'Dist d'Air' for the heater directional air control etc. All well
> and good. Somehow, a budding linguist in Engineering failed to fully
> research his dictionary for 'Choke' and probably tried to in-build the term
> 'strangler' into his deliberations. He could have used 'Melange' which was
> the pre-WW2 term for 'mixture' or its then more modern and current
> equivalent of 'Starter'. Note, this does not mean the engine start button
> on
> sidescreen TR's or the twist switch on the ignition. Instead, the
> translator
> made a noun out of the French verb to "choke on a piece of food" which is
> 'Etouffer' and modded it to 'Etouffeur.' Shrieks of laughter from French
> who
> always love to mock the Brits and claimed this term *could* also be
> interpreted into a person who chokes people to death. So all this
> precipitated a mad rush for revised knobs in the correct terminology to fit
> to cars in dealer stocks before they could be sold!!!!!
>
> However, things didn't stop there. A few weeks later, the words for
> 'wipers'
> in Italian was found to have been translated into a slang expression of a
> particular local Italian dialect which common decency prevents me from
> clarifying any further and I leave that to your imaginations. Suffice it to
> say it is associated with Restrooms / Toilets :)
>
> I suppose all these little issues are probably par for the course but my
> amusement at these 'faux pas' was greatly heightened when I read that the
> company making these various knobs had contracted with the factory for an
> initial stock of 50,000 items of each in four different languages and there
> was no way they were willing to scrub round the mistake or absorb the cost
> for changing the tooling for revised wording.
>
> So when you operate the knobs on your Herald, Vitesse, Spitfire which all
> have the images on them, spare a thought for what happened to the words.
> I'm
> currently reading the reports between Engineering, Quality Control,
> Purchasing and Final Inspection on the tacit issues of the problems
> encountered with all the hieroglyphs on the very early knobs which kept
> falling out because the insert was a tad too large for the hole and the
> glue
> to hold them in place didn't last. More anon
>
> Jonmac
> (aka John Macartney)
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
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> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> ** [email-masked] **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">John, your recollections are always a delight.=C2=A0 Keep =
&#39;em coming!<div><br></div><div>Don</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:44 AM, John Macar=
tney <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi, List<br>
<br>
Over the Christmas and New Year break, Liz and I have been busy going<br>
through our possessions. We&#39;re &#39;downsizing&#39; home-wise and too m=
uch of the<br>
stuff &quot;that&#39;ll come in useful one day&quot; has had to be reviewed=
. As you can<br>
imagine, as someone who spent a lifetime in the UK auto industry, I&#39;ve<=
br>
managed to accumulate quite a lot of &quot;come in useful one day&quot; ite=
ms. Dec 26<br>
saw me making a start on evaluating several thousand 35mm colour slides of<=
br>
vacations in Europe in Standard cars (Vanguards and a Standard Ten Companio=
n<br>
- aka Triumph Ten Wagon) when they were new and I&#39;ve kept back too many=
<br>
cherished pix to be later scanned to a hard disk. It&#39;s only sentiment a=
s I<br>
just can&#39;t bring myself to throw them out.<br>
<br>
I then got into some of Dad&#39;s many internal reports from Canley days da=
ting<br>
from the mid-fifties and early sixties - before Leyland appeared in Coventr=
y<br>
- and there are two little aspects I&#39;ve uncovered this far that I thoug=
ht<br>
might entertain you?<br>
<br>
The first one relates to the hieroglyphics (my spelling?) on instrument<br>
panel controls. Standard Triumph was probably the first UK manufacturer to<=
br>
adopt them on the 1200 Herald / TR4 and this was not without its problems<b=
r>
back in the day. Up until then, car users had long become accustomed to<br>
words on a knob to describe its function while today, several generations<b=
r>
have grown up intuitively knowing what a symbol means. For example, the<br>
image of a heater matrix radiating warm air was perceived to be something t=
o<br>
do with a set of false teeth (!!!!) while the symbol of a throttle butterfl=
y<br>
in a venturi for the choke completely foxed the majority. It was a series o=
f<br>
reports about these hieroglyphs and overseas markets that I found most<br>
entertaining but that&#39;s worth another story when I&#39;ve read the rest=
 of the<br>
reports. It seems the French and the Italians were greatly against English<=
br>
words on control knobs and argued with some rationale that they should<br>
reflect the local languages. They argued that if you could build a car with=
<br>
varying national specs (laminated windscreens, different wiring looms to<br=
meet local requirements and laws, LH steering, kilometre speedos et al) the=
n<br>
local wording on knobs shouldn&#39;t be a problem.<br>
<br>
The French argued and won for &#39;Eclairage&#39; for lights, &#39;Chauffag=
e&#39; for<br>
heating (where the false teeth symbol would later appear), &#39;Essuies&#39=
; for<br>
wipers, &#39;Dist d&#39;Air&#39; for the heater directional air control etc=
. All well<br>
and good. Somehow, a budding linguist in Engineering failed to fully<br>
research his dictionary for &#39;Choke&#39; and probably tried to in-build =
the term<br>
&#39;strangler&#39; into his deliberations. He could have used &#39;Melange=
&#39; which was<br>
the pre-WW2 term for &#39;mixture&#39; or its then more modern and current<=
br>
equivalent of &#39;Starter&#39;. Note, this does not mean the engine start =
button on<br>
sidescreen TR&#39;s or the twist switch on the ignition. Instead, the trans=
lator<br>
made a noun out of the French verb to &quot;choke on a piece of food&quot; =
which is<br>
&#39;Etouffer&#39; and modded it to &#39;Etouffeur.&#39; Shrieks of laughte=
r from French who<br>
always love to mock the Brits and claimed this term *could* also be<br>
interpreted into a person who chokes people to death. So all this<br>
precipitated a mad rush for revised knobs in the correct terminology to fit=
<br>
to cars in dealer stocks before they could be sold!!!!!<br>
<br>
However, things didn&#39;t stop there. A few weeks later, the words for &#3=
9;wipers&#39;<br>
in Italian was found to have been translated into a slang expression of a<b=
r>
particular local Italian dialect which common decency prevents me from<br>
clarifying any further and I leave that to your imaginations. Suffice it to=
<br>
say it is associated with Restrooms / Toilets :)<br>
<br>
I suppose all these little issues are probably par for the course but my<br=
amusement at these &#39;faux pas&#39; was greatly heightened when I read th=
at the<br>
company making these various knobs had contracted with the factory for an<b=
r>
initial stock of 50,000 items of each in four different languages and there=
<br>
was no way they were willing to scrub round the mistake or absorb the cost<=
br>
for changing the tooling for revised wording.<br>
<br>
So when you operate the knobs on your Herald, Vitesse, Spitfire which all<b=
r>
have the images on them, spare a thought for what happened to the words. I&=
#39;m<br>
currently reading the reports between Engineering, Quality Control,<br>
Purchasing and Final Inspection on the tacit issues of the problems<br>
encountered with all the hieroglyphs on the very early knobs which kept<br>
falling out because the insert was a tad too large for the hole and the glu=
e<br>
to hold them in place didn&#39;t last. More anon<br>
<br>
Jonmac<br>
(aka John Macartney)<br>
<br>
<br>
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*<br>
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//www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
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ptions/triumphs/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: "John Macartney" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 16:32:00 -0000

Thanks, Don - and to anyone else who found my little dissertation of interest.

Just returned from taking the dogs for a walk and something triggered a doubt about the correct terminologies. In fact, the company still hadn't got it right with the French and I checked Dad's reports again. The term "Eclairage" for lighting wasn't a good translation either. Currently, the French use that word for lighting as one might find in a home and it certainly means 'lightning' in its true sense - and that's probably a misnomer for products out of Lucas :)

The correct term for lights on the switch face should have been 'Lanternes'.  There are still many places in the French speaking parts of Europe where at the entrance to a road tunnel you'll see the warning sign "Allumez vos lanternes". Allumer is the verb to ignite and allumage is ignition in an automotive sense. Therefore "ignite your lanterns" for a car with Lucas electrics would be a precisely apt term, assuming of course you happen to have a box of matches and the tool for trimming the wick about your person at the time :)

Jonmac

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Hiscock [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: 02 January 2015 14:54
To: John Macartney
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] A rose by any other name? (A bit of Standard Triumph history for them wots interested)

Don

	Hi, List
	
	vacations in Europe in Standard cars (Vanguards and a Standard Ten Companion
	
	I then got into some of Dad's many internal reports from Canley days dating
	from the mid-fifties and early sixties - before Leyland appeared in Coventry
	- and there are two little aspects I've uncovered this far that I thought
	might entertain you?
	
	The first one relates to the hieroglyphics (my spelling?) on instrument
	panel controls. Standard Triumph was probably the first UK manufacturer to
	adopt them on the 1200 Herald / TR4 and this was not without its problems
	back in the day. Up until then, car users had long become accustomed to
	words on a knob to describe its function while today, several generations
	have grown up intuitively knowing what a symbol means. For example, the
	image of a heater matrix radiating warm air was perceived to be something to
	do with a set of false teeth (!!!!) while the symbol of a throttle butterfly
	in a venturi for the choke completely foxed the majority. It was a series of
	reports about these hieroglyphs and overseas markets that I found most
	entertaining but that's worth another story when I've read the rest of the
	reports. It seems the French and the Italians were greatly against English
	words on control knobs and argued with some rationale that they should
	reflect the local languages. They argued that if you could build a car with
	varying national specs (laminated windscreens, different wiring looms to
	meet local requirements and laws, LH steering, kilometre speedos et al) then
	local wording on knobs shouldn't be a problem.
	
	equivalent of 'Starter'. Note, this does not mean the engine start button on
	sidescreen TR's or the twist switch on the ignition. Instead, the translator
	'Etouffer' and modded it to 'Etouffeur.' Shrieks of laughter from French who
	
	However, things didn't stop there. A few weeks later, the words for 'wipers'

	So when you operate the knobs on your Herald, Vitesse, Spitfire which all
	have the images on them, spare a thought for what happened to the words. I'm
	currently reading the reports between Engineering, Quality Control,
	Purchasing and Final Inspection on the tacit issues of the problems
	encountered with all the hieroglyphs on the very early knobs which kept
	falling out because the insert was a tad too large for the hole and the glue
	to hold them in place didn't last. More anon
	
	Jonmac
	(aka John Macartney)

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From: Joe Burlein <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 11:55:20 -0500

Sounds like you may have enough for another book!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 2, 2015, at 9:44, "John Macartney" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hi, List
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Dave <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2015 08:06:41 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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the=20bit=20of=20history.=20=0A=0A=20=0A=0ADave=20Massey=0A=0A=0A=20=0A=0A=20=0A=
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gmail.com&gt;<br>=0A=0ACc:=20'Triumphs'=20&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br>=0A=
=0ASent:=20Fri,=20Jan=202,=202015=201:01=20pm<br>=0A=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[TR]=20A=
=20rose=20by=20any=20other=20name?=20(A=20bit=20of=20Standard=20Triumph=20histor=
y=20for=20them=20wots=20interested)<br>=0A=0A<br>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A<div=20id=3D=
"AOLMsgPart_0_f55ce8cd-7583-45ff-8d7d-919043a4b06a"=20style=3D"margin:=200px;fon=
t-family:=20Tahoma,=20Verdana,=20Arial,=20Sans-Serif;font-size:=2012px;color:=20=
#000;background-color:=20#fff;">=0A=0A<pre=20style=3D"font-size:=209pt;"><tt>Tha=
nks,=20Don=20-=20and=20to=20anyone=20else=20who=20found=20my=20little=20disserta=
tion=20of=20interest.=0A=0AJust=20returned=20from=20taking=20the=20dogs=20for=20=
a=20walk=20and=20something=20triggered=20a=20doubt=20=0Aabout=20the=20correct=20=
terminologies.=20In=20fact,=20the=20company=20still=20hadn't=20got=20it=20right=20=
=0Awith=20the=20French=20and=20I=20checked=20Dad's=20reports=20again.=20The=20te=
rm=20"Eclairage"=20for=20=0Alighting=20wasn't=20a=20good=20translation=20either.=
=20Currently,=20the=20French=20use=20that=20word=20=0Afor=20lighting=20as=20one=20=
might=20find=20in=20a=20home=20and=20it=20certainly=20means=20'lightning'=20in=20=
=0Aits=20true=20sense=20-=20and=20that's=20probably=20a=20misnomer=20for=20produ=
cts=20out=20of=20Lucas=20:)=0A=0AThe=20correct=20term=20for=20lights=20on=20the=20=
switch=20face=20should=20have=20been=20'Lanternes'.=20=20=0AThere=20are=20still=20=
many=20places=20in=20the=20French=20speaking=20parts=20of=20Europe=20where=20at=20=
the=20=0Aentrance=20to=20a=20road=20tunnel=20you'll=20see=20the=20warning=20sign=
=20"Allumez=20vos=20lanternes".=20=0AAllumer=20is=20the=20verb=20to=20ignite=20a=
nd=20allumage=20is=20ignition=20in=20an=20automotive=20sense.=20=0ATherefore=20"=
ignite=20your=20lanterns"=20for=20a=20car=20with=20Lucas=20electrics=20would=20b=
e=20a=20=0Aprecisely=20apt=20term,=20assuming=20of=20course=20you=20happen=20to=20=
have=20a=20box=20of=20matches=20and=20=0Athe=20tool=20for=20trimming=20the=20wic=
k=20about=20your=20person=20at=20the=20time=20:)=0A=0AJonmac=0A=0A-----Original=20=
Message-----=0AFrom:=20Don=20Hiscock=20[<a=20href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m?">mailto:[email-masked]</a>]=20=0ASent:=2002=20January=202015=2014:54=0A=
To:=20John=20Macartney=0ACc:=20Triumphs=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[TR]=20A=20rose=20by=20=
any=20other=20name?=20(A=20bit=20of=20Standard=20Triumph=20history=20=0Afor=20th=
em=20wots=20interested)=0A=0AJohn,=20your=20recollections=20are=20always=20a=20d=
elight.=20=20Keep=20'em=20coming!=0A=0ADon=0A=0A<a=20href=3D"http://autox.team.n=
et/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]"=20target=3D"_blank"></a>=0A</tt>=
</pre>=0A</div>=0A=0A=20<!--=20end=20of=20AOLMsgPart_0_f55ce8cd-7583-45ff-8d7d-9=
19043a4b06a=20-->=0A=0A=0A=0A</div>=0A=0A</font>
----------MB_8D1F56D404C742A_1D40_21053F_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com--

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