Subject: Re: [TR] Headlight Update

From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 06:42:31 -0400

Your lights will be MUCH better than original PL700 lights.  They used
something like 40 watt bulbs!

As I said before I used 2 modern relays.  One for low beam and one for high
beam.  I mounted them mounted them under a headlight bucket, mostly out of
view.

I ran 10awg wire from the A terminal of the voltage regulator using a 1/4
quick connect to the relays.  Then the origonal low beam wire went to one
relay and the high beam wire to the other relay.  I used new female bullet
connectors for the job, so there is no cutting of the original harness

Then the new low or high beam hot lead comes off the "normally open" terminal
of the relay and goes to the original bullet connector junction connector.

-Tony

On Oct 15, 2014, at 2:14 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

> essage: 3
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:58:13 -0700
> From: Jeffrey Gayton <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [TR] Headlight Update
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Thanks, everyone, who responded to my question about using a Lucas TR4A
horn
> relay on halogen headlights. I've decided to go with a modern relay, and
will
> figure out later whether to hide it under the dash or under the headlight
> bucket.
>
> It looks like I'll need to buy new headlights too. I thought I'd be able to
> use halogen bulbs for my Lucas PL700 repros, but it now appears that
they're
> not reproduction after all. Now I know why the PO had the ugly (IMHO) wire
> headlight protectors!
>
> Thanks again!
>
> b Jeff

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 06:54:31 -0400

The TR2-4a had wiring that is not really up to the job.  The original
headlight wattages were rather low. And the wires were just adequate,  They
are "28 strand" which might be OK for about 14 amps total.  (actually, I think
they are 14 strand??? Barely ok for a pair of 40 watt bulbs?)  if theycare 28
strand the in principle that is OK for two 55/60 halogen lights

But the switches are not really up to the job. And there are a lot of
connectors and wire length, each adding a bit of voltage drop to the bulbs.
Halogens in particular HATE voltage drop.  A little drop causes significant
losses in brightness.  Modern halogens are best run with relays and a good
heavy power supply wire.

-Tony

On Oct 15, 2014, at 2:14 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 05:14:34 +0100
> From: "Dixie4" <[email-masked]>
> To: "Jeffrey Gayton" <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Headlight Update
> Message-ID: <0C44E88440234A54A13FB5E87D8131A2@AdrianPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
>
> The legal standard in UK is 65/50W I would not have thought an extra relay
> was required. However, this is a personal opinion and experience.
> I have successfully used 100watt H4 bulbs for off road use in standard 7"
> round headlamps as a replacement for 65watt bulbs with standard wiring
> without mishap. I must state that is was on 70's Ford Escort which may
> possibly have had heavier wiring than a TR3 as standard. The only time I had
> to fit relays was when fitting four huge Cibi Super Oscar spot lamps.
> Oh those were the days...........120mph down forest tracks 1 1/2 times the
> width of the car, at night, after a hard days work. Must have been mad!!!
>
> Adrian,
> Wales UK

---

From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:07:00 -0400

When I installed my 55/60 halogens, I added up the energy budget, and the 20
or 22 amp generator would be just sufficient at night with heater blower and
wipers.  But as you say, stop and go tends to drain the battery

The original regulator would provide approximately charge-neutral voltage at
near max load.   There is surprisingly little ability to recharge the battery
at night, even if technically there is an extra 5 amps headroom.

A modern electronic regulator that hold the output voltage right up to the
current limit of the dynamo WILL allow driving in stop and go traffic at
night. Classic Dynamo and Regulator Conversions in UK is introducing a new
line of electronic regulators at the big NEC show in November about a month
from now.

Also LED brake lights will help improve the energy budget when stopped.

-Tony

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2014, at 2:14 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 23:17:19 -0700
> From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks for the correction, Adrian.  I knew I'd seen them somewhere.
>
> The extra power may present some concern if you do a lot of driving in
heavy
> stop-and-go traffic at night, or make only short trips at night and still
> have the stock Lucas generator.   Especially when combined with other loads
> (brake lights, wipers, heater), the generator won't keep up at low engine
> rpm and you may end your drive with a battery that is somewhat low.  But it
> shouldn't be a problem as long as your next drive includes enough faster
> driving to recharge the battery.

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:12:37 -0700

> current limit of the dynamo WILL allow driving in stop and go traffic at
night.

Are they actually driving the field voltage above battery voltage?  Even
with the regulator full on, my original 19 amp generator won't keep up at
less than 1800-2000 engine rpm.

> Classic Dynamo and Regulator Conversions in UK is introducing a new line
of
> electronic regulators at the big NEC show in November about a month from
> now.

Weren't you working on your own, some time back?

> Also LED brake lights will help improve the energy budget when stopped.

They'll definitely help, but perhaps not all that much.  The original single
brake light on my TR3 was rated 21 watts; my plan is to have 27 watts of
LEDs (arranged in 3 lamps drawing .75 amps each).  Might be overkill, but I
want to make certain they are visible even in full sunlight.

Randall

---

From: Chris Kantarjiev <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:20:52 -0700

> use halogen bulbs for my Lucas PL700 repros, but it now appears that they're
There are, or used to be, halogen bulbs that fit the PL700. I ran that 
way for a while ... it's not actually worth it. The problem is not 
(just) the bulb, but also the reflector and lens design.

Get a decent set of modern lights, like Cibie E codes, and you'll be 
amazed at how much better you can see even with the stock wiring (but 
add the relays to avoid destroying the switch).

---

From: Chris Kantarjiev <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:24:01 -0700

> add the relays to avoid destroying the switch).
I haven't looked at it in detail for a while, but I *think* the core 
information at

http://www.dimebank.com/tech/Light-up.html

is still sound :-)

chris

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:26:15 -0700

> The TR2-4a had wiring that is not really up to the job. 

Well, not to belabor the point, but I ran with 60 watt H4 headlights on the
stock wiring in my TR3A for quite a few years.  Only time I had a problem
was when there really was a short (one of the strands of wires got loose and
touched ground).

Perhaps a TR4 is different, but on a TR2-3, each headlight gets its own wire
from the dimmer switch, meaning that section only carries about 5 amps even
with 60 watt bulbs.  And I believe the wire from the main switch to the
dimmer switch is 28 strand, meaning it is rated to carry 140% of the actual
load with 60 watt bulbs.

Randall