Subject: Re: [TR] Headlight Relays

From: Anthony Rhodes <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 14:35:37 -0400

I used two regular 30 amp relays and put them under a headlight bucket,
screwed into the bucket. They are visible only if you look.

-Tony

On Oct 11, 2014, at 2:00 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:41:25 -0700
> From: Jeffrey Gayton <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [TR] Headlight Relays
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Greetings. It is possible (safe, effective) to use the Lucas TR4A horn
relay
> as a headlight relay? I'm considering upgrading to halogen headlights and
> would like to avoid putting an ugly, modern-looking relay in my engine
> compartment.
>
> Thanks.

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

---

From: Chris Kantarjiev <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 11:48:49 -0700

When I did this, I mounted modern square relays in the driver footwell, 
and used the original wiring out to the buckets. It was completely 
tucked away and invisible; you can even get relays that have integral 
fuses. It's straightforward to splice into the bullet connectors there.

The original wiring is not as thick as one might like, but the real 
source of voltage drop is the column switch.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 01:21:37 +0000 (UTC)

I have been--and continue to be--a big fan of electronic ignition for my TR3A.  No gradual degrading of points, no resetting or filing, and so on.
Just had my boat distributor rebuilt by Advanced Distributers in MN (NFI and all that).  They did a great job on a Triumph dizzy too.
As I was talking to Jeff there, he mentioned how his experience with Pertronix has led him to believe that the RFI interference of the magnetic fields of the wires affects the Pertronix and can cause a reduction in power.  One particular empiric test he ran was with a new rebuilt high end engine that found a 30 horsepower increase switching to points after several disappointing tests with Pertronix.  
I'm not inclined to disbelieve it, necessarily.  In the navy in the late 60's, I worked on WWII radios in very old sub hunt and seek prop planes.  They had odd interferences like inter-electrode capacitance issues.  
So...opening it up to the List.  I'm way to removed from electronics these days to profess expertise.  Jeff thought people would say he's crazy.  
Thoughts?

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A  TS 58667
New Hampshire, where inter-snowflake capacitance is a very real issue come on to January....

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:39:25 -0700

> As I was talking to Jeff there, he mentioned how his experience with
Pertronix
> has led him to believe that the RFI interference of the magnetic fields of
the
> wires affects the Pertronix and can cause a reduction in power.  One
particular
> empiric test he ran was with a new rebuilt high end engine that found a 30
> horsepower increase switching to points after several disappointing tests
with
> Pertronix.

I certainly don't think he's crazy, it's quite possible IMO.  It would be
interesting to know what effect, if any, that various EMI/EFI suppression
measures had; and maybe also some scope traces of what the Pertronix was
actually doing.

But without that kind of evidence, it's just a hypothesis.  Given all the
stories I've heard of defective pickups and modules, he may have just found
one of those.

I tossed my Pertronix back in the bin after discovering it was causing odd
starting problems.  And having the car gently remind me that it's time for a
service doesn't seem like such a Bad Thing, to me.  After all, it is an old
car, and changing points is part of the old car experience.  If I wanted
something that "just works", I'd get a Miata!

Randall

PS, not that there's anything wrong with Miatas, they just aren't TR3s :)

---

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 23:46:36 -0500

I seem to remember several years ago Grassroots Motorsports was testing bolt 
ons on some car, don't remember what, but as I recall the article said it 
was one of the best bang for the buck bolt ons they tested, adding 3-4 hp or 
something like that. I haven't been able to find that article, not 
absolutely sure I am remembering it right.

 did find this on the internet:

http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/track.htm

Plus a lot of circular discussions on Pertronix v. Points similar to what I 
have seen here and on other British car lists and forums.

I also saw some references to Jeff at Advanced Distributors saying Pertronix 
makes less power than points.

I put them on my last two or three cars and I have had no problems, bit I 
will add I have felt no discernable difference in how the motor runs, as far 
as smoothness at idle or power.  I don't know if my next car will get them, 
points work fine too, sure you have to adjust them and replace them from 
time to time, but similar sentiment to what Randall said, if I didn't like 
to tinker I wouldn't drive an old British car.

Greg Lemon
68 TR250

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2014 10:39 PM
To: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] Pertronix

> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Bud R <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 01:31:12 -0600

I believe Jeff has also made the point that Petronixs main advantage is that
it makes the dwell steady but not much else. Something you can get with
regular maintenance (setting, checking, grease) of points.

So is that true? Do Petronix electronic ignitions not provide any other
advantages?

Glad this subject came up as I just had a True Spark electronic ignition burn
up. True Sparks design uses spades for connecting their wires. Apparently not
a good idea as mine shorted out at one of those connectors. It burnt through
the plastic cover on the connector. Most others have the wires straight to the
control box without any exposed metal inside the distributor cap. Maybe thats
why. In any case Im not using True Spark any more and was actually thinking
about returning to points having read Jeffs theory about points yielding more
power at higher RPMs. Ive been through some ignition problems and they all
have involved electronic ignitions.

So with points can you still use high output coils?

Ill be interested to see what the literati think.

Thanks
Bud

Extreme Parts Racing (more than just a haircut)

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
69 Spitfire MK III (back up FE engine/dinghy car)
93 Minnie Winnie Race Support Vehicle
77 Z-50A Hardly Davidson Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)

On Oct 11, 2014, at 7:21 PM, [email-masked] wrote:

> No gradual degrading of points, no resetting or filing, and so on.

---

From: George Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 11:17:16 -0400

I'm using a Crane unit in my TR3, so can't comment on the Pertronix in 
particular, but I've had an oscilloscope on mine and found no effect 
from anything. Since the Crane has the switching unit outside the 
distributor, I would expect it to be more affected than the Pertronix, 
which is all integrated into the distributor.

On top of that, the field generated by the wires in the ignition circuit 
would be insignificant.

Your old radios were analog and amplified and stray signals the tubes 
picked up. The electronic ignition system is essentially digital. The 
sensor is either on or off, and the output is as well.

George Richardson
Key Men - Keys for Classics
www.key-men.com

1957 Triumph TR3
1961 Jaguar Mark 2
1975 Triumph TR6
1997 Land Rover Discovery

On 10/11/2014 9:21 PM, [email-masked] wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Brad Kahler <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:59:30 -0400

I'm not so sure I agree. I would think there is something else at play
generating the noise. First a little background.

63 TR4 with pertronix ignition, stock solid core spark plug wires, stock
coil and a Rostra cruise control system.

Car runs great, plenty of power and acceleration. After installing the
cruise control I had continual problems trying to get the cruise to stay
engaged. Worse, it would randomly turn itself on and activate the cruise
mode. Not something you want to experience, especially when heading into a
mountain curve! (Yes that happened to me) I tried everything to get the
cruise to work with no luck. By chance I happened to be experimenting with
a dash cam that had audio capabilities and the first time I downloaded the
video to my desktop computer the screeching ignition noise could be heard
coming out of the speakers.

Fast forward to the convention in Dobson. During the car show I bought a
set of TR6 noise suppression plug wires and installed them on the TR4. Went
for a test drive and the cruise worked flawlessly.

My take on all of this is a pertronix ignition is not affected by
a noisy ignition system, the pertronix by itself does not generate enough
noise to affect a solid state cruise control and a cruise control installed
in a car with a noisy ignition system could be deadly.

Brad

On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 9:21 PM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I have been--and continue to be--a big fan of electronic ignition for my
> TR3A.  No gradual degrading of points, no resetting or filing, and so on.
> Just had my boat distributor rebuilt by Advanced Distributers in MN (NFI
> and all that).  They did a great job on a Triumph dizzy too.
> Pertronix has led him to believe that the RFI interference of the magnetic
> fields of the wires affects the Pertronix and can cause a reduction in
> power.  One particular empiric test he ran was with a new rebuilt high end
> engine that found a 30 horsepower increase switching to points after
> several disappointing tests with Pertronix.
> I'm not inclined to disbelieve it, necessarily.  In the navy in the late
> 60's, I worked on WWII radios in very old sub hunt and seek prop planes.
> They had odd interferences like inter-electrode capacitance issues.
> So...opening it up to the List.  I'm way to removed from electronics these
> days to profess expertise.  Jeff thought people would say he's crazy.
> Thoughts?
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:00:54 -0600

Noisy ignition systems can be an issue. I often take my old ( maybe 30 years? ) Craftsman timing light
down to Bailey's shop. It works just fine on some of the old cars, whereas his fancy new digital light
goes berzerk on some LBCs.  Sometimes you need technology of the same age as the car to get decent
results: http://bradakis.com/fcg/diag.html

Speaking of electronics I've been meaning to pick up some more flash drives for backing up stuff on
the Team.Net server. Saw one that had a capacity of 128 Gigs.  Wow. I remember when disk drives of
a few hundred megs were about the size of a washing machine.  But I don't think I'll be buying a
$150 flash drive. With no job, therefore no income, I can't really afford even the $20 ones. Maybe
I should have a mini fund drive?  Donate early, donate often!

mjb.

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 23:38:09 -0700

> Maybe I should have a mini fund drive?  Donate early, donate often!

C'mon guys, chip in and help.  Even the price of a brewski would help.

That link again:

Randall

---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:01:15 -0500

I'm in, how about all y'all?

Sent from mobile Bill

> On Oct 14, 2014, at 1:38 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
>

That link again:

Randall

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Jeff Scarbrough <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:00:38 -0400

I sent mine a few weeks ago.

And I wouldnt' depend on a flash drive for backup.  Better to buy raw
hard drives and something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182221

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:01 AM, [email-masked] <[email-masked]> wrote:
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Randall
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: Tony Drews <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 10:25:56 -0500

I'm in.

Tony

At 01:38 AM 10/14/2014, Randall wrote:
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "J.C. Hassall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 11:57:04 -0400

BTDT.  Tnx for all you do for the Lists Mark

Jim

Fat-thumbed from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2014, at 5:00 PM, Mark J Bradakis <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]