Subject: Re: [TR] oil pressure

From: "ptegler" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 06:23:11 -0500

clearances where oil escapes the route through the passages (lowers overall 
pressure)
are the lower rod bearing of course, but like the Spit 1500 that is worst of 
all, the cam shaft journals.
Without cam bearings and the cam riding right in the cast iron block the 
expansion ratios of the metal open up the clearances and allow oil to escape 
as the car warms up

100 psi is a bit high. The relief should be closer to 80 psi.

Have you purged all the air out of your oil pressure gauge line (or is it an 
electric gauge?)

What oil grade/brand are you using? ..can make a BIG difference... 
synthetics usually run lower pressures when warm, but a fresh build should 
not be using non-dino oil yet anyway.

My own GT6 6 cyl scared me once or twice on long trip/events when at highway 
speeds I was only getting 30 psi. A filter change (right on the show field) 
brought the pressure right back up to the usual 50-55 hot at speed, 20-25 at 
idle.

Pop one of the oil gallery set screw plugs out the side of the block and 
screw a mechanical gauge directly into the block as a secondary test reading 
apparatus to validate your gauge is not an issue.

.

Paul Tegler
[email-masked]
www.teglerizer.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Arakelian" <[email-masked]>
To: "Listers" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 10:01 PM
Subject: [TR] oil pressure

>I will try to keep this brief, but there is a LONG story here that I will
> share some other time.
> For reasons I now question, I had XK's Unlimited in San Luis Obispo, CA,
> rebuild my engine.  Jason, the owner said he would give me a good deal and
> allow me to supply parts.  When I picked up the car after 2 months, it 
> started
> up with 100 psi! Great!  By the time I got home - 60 miles of freeway, and 
> yes
> I did vary speed, the pressure was down to 50 psi and was idling at 10 
> psi.  I
> called, and after some testy conversations and insulting e-mails, I took 
> the
> car back up for evaluation.  I talked with the mechanic who worked on the
> engine for about an hour and we discussed the old parts and the old pump 
> and
> the oil pressure.  He felt it was my oil filter, a K&N, he said he had 
> heard
> that there were occasional problems with the internal relief valve.  We
> changed to a Fram and yes the pressure did pick up about 10 psi!  He then 
> told
> me my rocker shaft was worn and should be replaced and I might be losing
> pressure there, too.  Why it wasn't done during the rebuild instead of
> polishing the old, is part of the longer story.  By the time I got home, 
> same
> story with the pressure.  I did then change out the rocker shaft with a 
> new
> one with bushed rockers honed to fit the shaft.  The old one was 
> noticeably
> worn and grooved where the rockers had been.  When I drove into work this 
> AM,
> temp in low 30's to low 40's, about 35 mile on the freeway, the pressure 
> was
> about 5 psi higher.  When I drove home, temps in mid 60's, just over 50 
> psi @
> 3200 rpm,  When I stopped at the off ramp 10 psi.  After I drove the mile
> home, 12 psi.  Yes, we did change the relief valve plunger and spring. 
> Always
> starts cold at 100 psi.  The new oil pump was a NOS AE pump.
> Thoughts?
> Peter Arakelian - '71 TR6, Daily Driver
>
> ** [email-masked] **
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---

From: "Jerry Van Vlack" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 06:42:07 -0500

Was the crank ground? If so there may have been some grinding swarf left in 
the oil passages and subsequent damage to the mains and or rod bearings. 
Recently 2 members of our local club had this issue on TR4 engines. I'd be 
pulling the pan and looking at the bearings. Or looking for an internal oil 
leak which might be hard to find. While inside I'd pull the pump and check 
clearances as well as look for scoring of the rotors and bottom plate.
JVV

-----Original Message----- 
From: Peter Arakelian
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 10:01 PM
To: Listers
Subject: [TR] oil pressure

I will try to keep this brief, but there is a LONG story here that I will
share some other time.
For reasons I now question, I had XK's Unlimited in San Luis Obispo, CA,
rebuild my engine.  Jason, the owner said he would give me a good deal and
allow me to supply parts.  When I picked up the car after 2 months, it 
started
up with 100 psi! Great!  By the time I got home - 60 miles of freeway, and 
yes
I did vary speed, the pressure was down to 50 psi and was idling at 10 psi. 
I
called, and after some testy conversations and insulting e-mails, I took the
car back up for evaluation.  I talked with the mechanic who worked on the
engine for about an hour and we discussed the old parts and the old pump and
the oil pressure.  He felt it was my oil filter, a K&N, he said he had heard
that there were occasional problems with the internal relief valve.  We
changed to a Fram and yes the pressure did pick up about 10 psi!  He then 
told
me my rocker shaft was worn and should be replaced and I might be losing
pressure there, too.  Why it wasn't done during the rebuild instead of
polishing the old, is part of the longer story.  By the time I got home, 
same
story with the pressure.  I did then change out the rocker shaft with a new
one with bushed rockers honed to fit the shaft.  The old one was noticeably
worn and grooved where the rockers had been.  When I drove into work this 
AM,
temp in low 30's to low 40's, about 35 mile on the freeway, the pressure was
about 5 psi higher.  When I drove home, temps in mid 60's, just over 50 psi 
@
3200 rpm,  When I stopped at the off ramp 10 psi.  After I drove the mile
home, 12 psi.  Yes, we did change the relief valve plunger and spring. 
Always
starts cold at 100 psi.  The new oil pump was a NOS AE pump.
Thoughts?
Peter Arakelian - '71 TR6, Daily Driver

---

From: Dave Massey <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:43:45 -0500 (EST)

What weight oil are you running?  Those pressures sound doable on an old,
tired engine running 20W-50 but on a new engine that seems awfully low.  But
if he put 5W20 in there these pressures may be normal.  You should still be on
break-in oil if that is a fresh rebuild, right?

Dave Massey

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Arakelian <[email-masked]>
To: Listers <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:51 am
Subject: [TR] oil pressure

polishing the old, is part of the longer story.  By the time I got home, same
worn and grooved where the rockers had been.  When I drove into work this AM,
about 5 psi higher.  When I drove home, temps in mid 60's, just over 50 psi @

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---

From: Bob Labuz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:44:14 -0500

Peter,

I am guessing they polished/ground the crankshaft with matching bearings 
etc. Set the correct end float with thrust washers.

Did they fit cam bearings? If not your problem may be here.

The 6 engine did not come with cam bearings. So if the cam surfaces on 
the block are worn or the cam is worn, your pressure problem could be 
related to this area.

I did my own rebuild on my 72 with help from a machine shop. But I did 
all the re-assembly. Starts up at around 80PSI and when warm drops to 70 
PSI at 2k RPM and about 50 PSI at idle. This is after break in using 30W 
oil. Then engine now has 20/50W Brad Penn.

Stock filter setup, original oil pump. In fact the only replacement 
parts were bearings, rings, gaskets, seals, valve guides, upgraded 
thrust washers and hardened valve seats for unleaded gas.

I had a similar problem with my 58 TR3 before rebuild. Great pressure on 
startup but after it was warm maybe 40PSI at 3K rpm and maybe 10 at 
idle. New bearings, reground crankshaft a new cam fixed that problem.

Bob

  On 01/13/2014 10:01 PM, Peter Arakelian wrote:
> allow me to supply parts.  When I picked up the car after 2 months, it started
> up with 100 psi! Great!  By the time I got home - 60 miles of freeway, and yes
> I did vary speed, the pressure was down to 50 psi and was idling at 10 psi.  I
> changed to a Fram and yes the pressure did pick up about 10 psi!  He then told
> home, 12 psi.  Yes, we did change the relief valve plunger and spring.  Always

---

From: "Alex&Janet Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 08:32:50 -0500

Pete - 100 psi sounds quite high for a cold start. I wonder if the relief
valve is operating correctly including sticking at either end of its travel.
Did you verify these pressures with a good quality master gauge? If not, try
to find a gauge with a 270 degree scale that tops out at about 125 psi.

 A 10 psi difference based on a filter change seems odd. I don't know where
the oil pressure gauge picks up its reading - is it before or after the
filter?

 I think I saw in a previous listing that some other NOS pumps had an
excessive clearance between the sides of the gears and the cover plate. The
pump that I bought from TRF made a tremendous difference in an otherwise
average condition engine. Hot idle pressure went from 10 psi to better than
20 psi. I think it was an import, but not from the UK.

Alex Thomson

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Peter Arakelian
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 10:01 PM
To: Listers
Subject: [TR] oil pressure

I will try to keep this brief, but there is a LONG story here that I will
share some other time.
For reasons I now question, I had XK's Unlimited in San Luis Obispo, CA,
rebuild my engine.  Jason, the owner said he would give me a good deal and
allow me to supply parts.  When I picked up the car after 2 months, it
started up with 100 psi! Great!  By the time I got home - 60 miles of
freeway, and yes I did vary speed, the pressure was down to 50 psi and was
idling at 10 psi.  I called, and after some testy conversations and
insulting e-mails, I took the car back up for evaluation.  I talked with the
mechanic who worked on the engine for about an hour and we discussed the old
parts and the old pump and the oil pressure.  He felt it was my oil filter,
a K&N, he said he had heard that there were occasional problems with the
internal relief valve.  We changed to a Fram and yes the pressure did pick
up about 10 psi!  He then told me my rocker shaft was worn and should be
replaced and I might be losing pressure there, too.  Why it wasn't done
during the rebuild instead of polishing the old, is part of the longer
story.  By the time I got home, same story with the pressure.  I did then
change out the rocker shaft with a new one with bushed rockers honed to fit
the shaft.  The old one was noticeably worn and grooved where the rockers
had been.  When I drove into work this AM, temp in low 30's to low 40's,
about 35 mile on the freeway, the pressure was about 5 psi higher.  When I
drove home, temps in mid 60's, just over 50 psi @
3200 rpm,  When I stopped at the off ramp 10 psi.  After I drove the mile
home, 12 psi.  Yes, we did change the relief valve plunger and spring.
Always starts cold at 100 psi.  The new oil pump was a NOS AE pump.
Thoughts?
Peter Arakelian - '71 TR6, Daily Driver

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