Subject: Re: [TR] TR6 head removal

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 07:39:20 -0700

As an aside -- my technique for avoiding a stuck head is to blow a head
gasket, get a valve job, break a piston ring, drop a screw down a spark
plug hole, etc. once every 4 years or so.

That pretty much guarantees that the head will come free with the side
bonus that your elapsed time to R&R the thing will get quite good.

Geo

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > My friends here are going to call their friends in shops for
> > more help and
> > advice, before I end up having it towed to a shop.
> > Any and all additional suggestions or comments would be
> > appreciated.
>
> Has the head moved at all?  Or is it still firmly against the block along
> the entire length?  If you managed to lift one end at all
> (even 1/16"), then it may be bound up against the studs and you need to
> drive that end back down while you concentrate on doing the
> same thing to the other end.  That is what happened when I tried to use a
> hoist to lift a TR3 head off of the studs.  The head bound
> on the studs and lifted the car off the ground, even though it came free
> and came right off once I set the car down and drove the
> lifted end back down.
>
> Also, I think you mentioned packing rope into #5 and #6, but that would
> not be correct.  You want to use #1 and #6 as they come to
> TDC at the same time.  Turn the engine backwards as far as it will go, and
> then use the starter to spin it forward.  You'll probably
> have to repeat this dozens of times to see any movement at all.
>
> Here are some more extreme suggestions, but probably it would be better to
> let a shop tackle it:
>
> 1) Use an arc welder to pass enough current through the studs to get them
> hot.  You can also weld a nut to the stud at the same time
> to get a firmer grip without relying on the stud threads.
>
> 2) Build a tool similar to that used by the TR7 & Stag folks to remove
> recalcitrant heads.  This is basically a large (and heavy)
> weldment that bolts to the head on both sides, and has large set screws
> that bear against the top of the studs.  Offhand, I'm not
> sure where you would mount to a TR6 head on the LH side, the spark plug
> holes are the only threads on that side that I can think of.
>
> As a side comment, this is a very common problem with the TR7 and Stag
> motors; and it is not uncommon to find motors that have been
> destroyed by unsuccessful attempts to remove the head(s).  Reportedly the
> above tool works a treat, even when other methods fail.
>
>
> 3), which I plan to try if I ever get that far down my todo list, to build
> a home EDM (electrical discharge machining) machine and
> use it to cut the studs out of the head.  There have been several sets of
> plans published in Home Shop Machinist (reprints are
> available from Village Press).  Basically, you need a drive mechanism that
> will advance a section of brass tubing under "computer"
> control, through the center of the stud; plus a power supply that will
> generate several hundred volts of DC without being damaged by
> a short circuit.  The logic circuit monitors the voltage and advances the
> tool when the voltage is high, retracts it when the
> voltage is low.  Each time it moves, the resulting spark removes a tiny
> piece of metal from the stud.  A small pump circulates fluid
> through the center of the tube and a catch basin around the stud, to carry
> away the tiny bits.  It's a very slow process (hence the
> need for automation), but will cut anything that will conduct (eg hardened
> steel) without wandering.  The classic example is cutting
> a gear-shaped hole through a file.
>
> Randall
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of
> Head removal tool 3.jpg]
>
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---

From: "D&B Lambert" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:49:38 -0700

Peter,
I had the same problem a few months ago with a TR6 I am in the process of
rebuilding.  I had 5 or 6 studs so severely stuck that the double nut trick
wouldn't budge them.  Same deal as you describe: I couldn't get the top nut
on tight enough to stop the other one from turning before I could feel the
nut stripping the stud thread.  Figuring I was going to install a new set of
studs anyway, I ended up welding a nut to each offending stud and removing
them that way; all except one stud.  On that one the stud just snapped off
near the welded nut leaving me with a nut and partial stud in my wrench.
Apparently the studs will corrode themselves to the passage in which they
pass through the head, so in that case the stud was prevented from being
turned by the head, not stuck in threads in the block.  I ended up using the
head as a giant "bolt head" for the stud, breaking the head loose by
whacking it on the side with a rubber mallet in the direction of unscrewing
the stud.  Eventually it worked and I was able to turn the head, unscrewing
the head/stud combo all the way.  On the six-pack forum there are pictures
of another guy who did the same thing.  After the head was free it was a
simple matter of driving the stud through the head passage.  I think welding
nuts to the studs also helped loosen them from the block, as they get really
really hot for a short period of time; I could hear the penetrating oil I
had bathed the studs in for days sizzle.  I too, tried the rope trick
(unsuccessfully) in cylinders #1 & #6.  No go for me.
Good Luck.
Dennis Lambert

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:triumphs-
> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of Peter Arakelian
> Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:35 PM
> To: Listers
> Subject: [TR] TR6 head removal
> 
> I would like to thank all who have so far tried to help me with my
problem.
> I have tried almost all that was suggested:  I have double checked and
nothing
> remains attached, I have cranked the motor over with plugs in, I have
tried
> the rope trick by both hand pushing the car and bumping the starter, I
have
> tried the various suggestions of prying at various points and ways, I have
> applied heat, I have pulled the manifold studs, I have been soaking for a
day
> and a half with various penetrants as well as one that freezes as it
applies
> its penetrant.  I have not tried a couple of methods:  Jonmac's factory
method