Subject: [TR] Aluminum radiators

From: David Ljung Madison <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:58:36 -0700

My TR3A is finally coming back together.  I have it at Greg Solow's
Engine Room in Santa Cruz (I believe he did TeriAnn's Triumph).

They are saying that the radiator doesn't have lots of flow and
are recommending switching to an aluminum radiator.  Somewhere
in storage I have a stock radiator in good shape that has the crank
hole (my current one doesn't).  I checked on ebay and the
prices of aluminum radiators vary massively - from $250 to $700.
Greg can get one that is good quality for ~$700.

So my options:

1) Use the current radiator, and don't go on the race track
2) Use the storage radiator so I have the starter crank hole again,
   which is amusing and can come in handy.
3) Buy the $250 aluminum on ebay
4) Buy the $700 aluminum via Greg

I know that if I use the radiator with the starter hole that
I lose something like 5% of my cooling, though the radiator
is probably cleaner than the original, so it's probably about
the same.

Does anyone kynow how to tell the difference between the
radiators on ebay?  Anyone buy one of these $250 aluminum radiators?

And any thoughts on the difference between aluminum and stock?

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 19:22:28 +0000

> 1) Use the current radiator, and don't go on the race track

I would definitely not take that option!  My radiator shop said my TR3 radiator "flowed fine" and yet I had persistent overheating problems during just normal highway driving that proved to be caused by crud buildup inside the tubes.  None of the tubes were blocked, but the crud was acting like an insulator and reducing the essential heat flow.

This is not my first experience with cooling issues caused by invisible radiator problems.  The previous TR3A had very similar symptoms (temp would creep up at freeway speeds even with just 70F air), and recoring the radiator immediately solved them entirely.

> I lose something like 5% of my cooling, 

More like 10-15% according to my radiator guy.  All of the tubes that would normally go through the space occupied by the crank hole are totally blocked off, so they do nearly nothing as far as cooling.  You lose not just the open space of the hole, but a section that wide of the entire height of the radiator.

Another option is to have your original radiator re-cored.  I'm told that Modine no longer makes the core I got in the 3A, but there is another company that will make radiator cores to order (and they have the specification to fit the TR3).  You can even keep the crank hole if you choose (although I didn't).  Your local radiator shop should be able to handle ordering the core and installing it for you.

I am very happy with my recored radiator and electric fan.  The engine stays cool under all conditions, even during autocrossing or sustained full throttle operation; and the fan only runs for a few seconds at idle or stop-n-go before the water coming back from the radiator drops below 190F (the setpoint I chose).  I also had the shop change the filler neck to take a modern cap, so I could add a recovery bottle.

In retrospect, I kind of wish that I had tried putting back the stock mechanical fan with the recored radiator, as I suspect that might have worked as well.  But for now at least, I have no intentions of going back.

Randall

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 11:48:54 -0500 (CDT)

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 09:18:00 -0700

> Or maybe my question should be........ does the TR3 have 
> inherent cooling 
> problems that could be helped by an aluminum radiator that 
> handles hear 
> "better"?

That has been a much debated topic over the years.  The conventional wisdom is that "All British cars overheat", and there may be
some small truth to that.  Lots of folks do have cooling problems, but I think it is less due to any inherent shortcoming and more
due to things like the cars being old, rarely driven, poorly understood and indifferently maintained.

I'm not a big fan of P.J. O'Rourke, but I did enjoy his book "Drive like Crazy", mostly because the story centers around a
cross-country trip in a 56 Buick.  With that litany of mechanical problems (including persistent overheating), he could just as
easily been driving a TR3!  But unlike the Buick, with a TR3 no one will ever tell you "That thing will run forever".  The
difference is in the perception, not the facts.

"Back when", I drove an entire Indiana summer in a decrepit TR3A that had no cooling fan at all!  Original radiator (from another
TR3A), no cardboard air duct (didn't know it was supposed to have one), and probably the original grille.  It actually had no
cooling problems at all while driving at speed, and I limped around town by simply shutting the engine off every chance I got.  It
seemed clear to me that the only issue was lack of airflow through the radiator (under certain conditions), not anything to do with
radiator size, thermostat type and so on.

Of course, since then, I've been using radiators without a crank hole, so they do work better than the original.  But I'd have to
say that my current TR3 continues the trend, where it shows no signs of any lack of cooling under any circumstances.  With a 185
modern thermostat (no sleeve), the needle never goes above the '5' in 185 (which is where the electric fan kicks in).  Even then,
the fan runs for only 30-40 seconds before turning off again.  The gauge hardly moves, but obviously the water coming back from the
radiator has gone below the 190F setpoint for the fan thermostat.

Randall