Subject: Re: [TR] problem gas?

From: Jack Mc <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:20:01 -0400

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion (and won't participate
if it does) but I don't see how anything as heavily subsidized by the
government as ethanol fuel production in this country is, could be viewed as
anywhere near the cusp of economic viability.

Cheers,
Jack Mc

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 12, 2013, at 11:38 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

> I've been told by folks in the industry that butanol also does not attack
> the rubber components in the fuel system the way ethanol does.
>
> But will it be economically viable?  Ethanol is on the cusp.  Further
> processing suggest that butanol will not be.
>
> Dave
>
> In a message dated 6/12/2013 9:28:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
> [email-masked] writes:
>> From Wikipedia:
>> One liter of ethanol contain 21.1 MJ, a liter of methanol 15.8 MJ and a
>> liter of gasoline approximately 32.6 MJ. In other words, for the same
>> energy content as one liter or one gallon of gasoline, one needs 1.6
>> liters/gallons of ethanol and 2.1 liters/gallons of methanol.
>>
>> The one to watch is butanol -- the 4-carbon alcohol.  This one has energy
>> density similar to gasoline and easier storage/transport.  The biofuels
>> guys are working now on conventional or enzymatic cracking techniques to
>> take ethanol to butanol.
>
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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:44:29 -0400

Dave, yes I'm told too (by a friend who's a CEO of a corn ethanol company)
that biobutanol will be handled exactly like gasoline.  We were having a
drink the other day as my TR3B was parked on the street in front of us, and
he pointed to my car noting that butanol would be indistinguishable from
gasoline in it.

One of the other developments underway is cellulosic butanol at some point,
too..  DuPont and BP have a venture that is ready to break ground on an
ethanol/biobutanol plant from corn stover.

More from Wikipedia on butanol fuel (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel).  In theory, about a 10%
consumption hit for butanol.

Gasoline:
Fuel energy density  32 MJ/L
RON  9199
MON  8189

Butanol fuel
Fuel energy density  29 MJ/L
RON  96
MON  78

Don
(who doesn't care about the politics at all in this discussion -- just the
technology)

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:38 AM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]