Subject: Re: [TR] Ethanol

From: Jonas Payne <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 08:26:37 -0700

Out here in the desert, all I can say is that ethanol blends are not
working.

Modern cars utilize closed pressurized fuel systems.  Our vintage cars do
not.  On hot days (and there are a lot of them in Las Vegas) the fuel will
literally vaporize (evaporate/boil) in the float bowls, causing lean
conditions and drivability problems, particularly in stop and go traffic.  

Not sure of any needle/float/mixture combination that once set can
accommodate the range of temperatures and conditions we are dealing with -
that's why new cars have computerized ignition programs.  

The fact of the matter is that on the hottest days, even my  modern cars
have drivability problems.

Jonas Payne
PBR Consulting
702-882-6711

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From: Bob Labuz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2013 12:01:36 -0400

I meant to send this to the list in addition to John.

> John,
>
> I have heard terrible things about ethanol even in newer engines. I am 
> not a chemist but since I can get non ethanol high test here in CNY, I 
> use it in all my Triumphs.
>
> I have to say that they do run great using this blend.
>
> I also had the cyl. heads modified for unleaded years ago just to be 
> safe.
>
> I figure I have about 15 years of driving left. I hope the engines 
> last until then!
>
> Then it will be up to my 3 kids to decide what to do.
>
> Bob

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From: WBEECH <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 11:31:43 -0500

We have three stations in town, Abilene, Texas, that still provide
ethanol-free petrol.  I stop there whenever I can, but not exclusively.  It's
been 5300 miles since the rebuild and adding hardened seats, no problems.

The other issue I heard of, but not experienced, was the softening of the
older rubber fuel lines.  Mine are all new, 5 years ago, and have no problems.
Perhaps someone else can speak to this.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 5, 2013, at 11:01 AM, Bob Labuz <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> I have heard terrible things about ethanol even in newer engines. I am not
a chemist but since I can get non ethanol high test here in CNY, I use it in
all my Triumphs.
>> I also had the cyl. heads modified for unleaded years ago just to be safe.
>>
>> I figure I have about 15 years of driving left. I hope the engines last
until then!
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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 05:21:32 -0700

> literally vaporize (evaporate/boil) in the float bowls, 

FWIW, one of Joe's carb heat shields helped a lot with that problem in my
TR3. 

But I don't think it is the ethanol itself causing the problem, but rather
the nation-wide vapor pressure specifications that came with it.
Gasoline/petrol is a blend of petro chemicals; and refiners have always
adjusted the blend to best suit local conditions.  Now they face stiff fines
if they don't follow the EPA requirements.  Hopefully this will be much less
of an issue in the UK (which in any case is remarkably short of desert
conditions <g>)

Randall

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From: "TeriAnn J. Wakeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 06:08:29 -0700

On 6/5/13 8:08 AM, John Macartney wrote:
> I'm simply
> curious to know what you guys think and may have discovered in the unavoidable
> use of ethanol in your tanks?
Cars: 1961 TR3 & 1960 Land Rover  Both had locally sourced rubber fuel 
lines.

After the switchover to ethanol blend petrol both vehicle suffered from 
the fuel lines disintegrating.  It took a months of running on the new 
fuel before the fuel filters started clogging. By the time all was over 
I had to replace the fuel lines on both vehicles from the tank to the 
carbs, clean out carb fuel chambers,  clean the screens on the DCOE 
inlets and the screens on the fuel pumps. Each car went through a couple 
filters.  The old fuel lines looked perfect on the outside but were 
dissolving on the inside.

Once I replaced all the pre-ethanol fuel lines with new formula fuel 
lines everything has been OK and trouble free.

TeriAnn

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From: Darrell Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 06:35:23 -0700