Subject: [TR] Recore vs Rodding Out TR3 Radiators

From: William Brewer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:05:50 -0700 (PDT)

So I have the radiator out of the TR3A. The radiator shop (The Radiator
Depot - Lancaster, CA) is charging me $89 to rod it out and resolder all of
the joints that show signs or corrosion (radiator extension, bottom radiator
fitting and drain plug boss). I thought that that is a fair price. They wanted
$380 to re-core the radiator with a new core. I beat about 12 years and 80,000
out of this radiator. I have always used distilled water with my coolant and
think that that helped.
     Man, it is a pain to change the radiator on a
TR3. My mind wanders and rambles whenever I get to doing the radiator. I am
surprised that Ken Richardson allowed it to be so difficult to change out. It
seems like in the flat horizontal bottom part of the nose piece that there
would have been a removable panel to unbolt to allow the radiator to slide out
the bottom front. ISTR a photo of a TR3 in France where the whole front end
was modified to make it flip up forward to provide access to the whole front
end and suspension.

     How many times can a radiator be rodded out? I have
a spare radiator and was thinking that if you can only rod them out once then
next time (80,000 miles from now...) I would already have the replacement
radiator re-cored  and could swap them out on the fly. If it can be rodded out
a second time then I would hold off on that one.
     With aluminum
replacement radiators, do they keep corrosion down? Are they a worthwhile
upgrade to save trouble down the road? I was thinking if an aluminum radiator
doesn't corrode as fast as the copper one then it may be worthwhile. Of course
the radiator can plug with corrosion from the block & head as well.
     ISTR
someone said that they use a secret FT radiator blend of 1 bottle No-Rosion, 1
bottle water wetter, 1 gallon Prestone and the rest in distilled water. Any
thoughts on that?
     I ordered all new cooling system hoses, connecting tube
& thermostats from Moss. I was surprised that they didn't have the top
radiator hose for either the TR3 or TR4 in stock. WTH you guys? It's summer
and getting hot. Thank goodness that I kept a spare in the trunk. If you are
going to redo your cooling system then you may want to stock up ahead of time.
     I am always trying to keep the connecting pipe from rotting out. When I
found the car 22 years ago the steel pipe was completely rotted. Then I used a
brass pipe from a sink drain, but wasn't happy with it because it didn't have
the right bend. Last time I was in there I used a new Moss one and painted it
on the outside with Rustoleum. Inside the pipe was reasonably clear, but where
the radiator hoses covered the pipe it is rusty and very pitted. Does anyone
make a stainless one? Is there something that can be done to the mild steel
one to make it last?
     TIA,

     Bill in Tehachapi

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From: William Brewer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:45:52 -0700 (PDT)

Thanks Randall,

     Do you have a hose part number for the Gates hose?
    
Just got a call from the radiator shop. Radiator was 75% plugged (yeah, I
know) and after rodding out it leaked like a sieve. Having it re-cored with a
HE core now.
     Last time I had the engine apart (how come TR3 owners always
have the "last time") the #4 cylinder was completely blocked off by rust and
fouling plugs. I wonder it I should pull the head and check that out again?
I'll put an IR thermometer on it next time it runs.
     The radiator shop
recommends a cleanable inline rust & sediment filter. I doubt one would fit
between the thermostat housing and radiator. Has anyone tried this?

-Bill in
 Tehachapi

________________________________
 From: Randall
<[email-masked]>
To: 'William Brewer' <[email-masked]> 
Sent:
Friday, May 17, 2013 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: [TR] Recore vs Rodding Out TR3
Radiators

> ISTR a photo of a TR3 in 
> France where the whole front end
was modified to make it flip 
> up forward to provide access to the whole
front end and suspension.

There was one like that at TRfest a few years back,
too.

>  I was 
> thinking if an aluminum radiator doesn't corrode as fast as
> the copper one then it may be worthwhile. Of course the 
> radiator can plug
with corrosion from the block & head as well.

At least in theory, none of
them should corrode, if you use the proper
coolant and change it often
enough.  But without the corrosion inhibitors,
the aluminum will corrode
faster.  It's thicker to begin with, though, so
perhaps the result is about
the same.

>      How many times can a radiator be rodded out?

There doesn't
seem to be a fixed limit, it depends on how much corrosion is
present.  The
factory radiator in my
 previous TR3A was rodded out several
times
successfully and still not leaking when I had it recored.

>      I ordered
all new cooling system hoses, connecting tube 
> & thermostats from Moss. I
was surprised that they didn't 
> have the top radiator hose for either the
TR3 or TR4 in 
> stock.

This is just a guess, mind you, but I suspect they
have recognized that
there is a problem with the last batch of reproduction
upper hoses (with the
nice cloth covering).  At least the last several that
I've gotten from TRF
have all failed much sooner than I think they should
have.  I finally
switched to the Gates hose, which doesn't have the cloth but
appears to be
much stronger.  So far, it has outlasted the last 3 hoses from
TRF put
together and still looks fine.  So I'm guessing they are in the
process of
qualifying a new hose manufacturer and/or waiting for the
 new
batch to be
made.

> Is there something that can be done to the 
> mild steel
one to make it last?

Keep the coolant up to date.

-- Randall

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 12:14:52 -0700

>      Do you have a hose part number for the Gates hose?

Gates 23511
 http://goo.gl/hOZTT

Apparently the same thing is available as AC Delco 31401
http://goo.gl/RxRtk

> I wonder it I should 
> pull the head and check that out again?

If the block drain flows freely, then it's probably OK.  It's at the very
bottom of the water jacket, next to #4.

I'd probably leave it be as long as the drain can be opened up with some
prodding.

Used to be, you could buy a strong chemical flush that came in 2 parts.
There was a neutralizer to use after the flush, to stop the chemical action.
I couldn't find any, last time I went looking; but there are some recipes on
the Inet that might work.  IIRC the flush is oxalic acid (sometimes
available as "wood bleach" or "deck bleach") and the neutralizer is baking
soda or maybe washing soda.  The acid comes as a dry powder that must be
mixed with water before adding to your cooling system.

Oxalic acid is fairly potent stuff.  Be sure to keep it off your paint and
wear appropriate protection when handling it.  Have a hose handy for instant
flushing if it gets some place it shouldn't be.

-- Randall