Subject: Re: [TR] When to rebuild

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:41:12 -0500

"showing again that they were actually innovative cars for their time.
 Shame they couldn't keep it up.

 -- Randall"

The Brits were on top of the world in the early 50s, offering advanced cars 
with advanced specification and performance, the XK120, TR2, and AH100 being 
prime examples.  One contemporary road test (may have been Hot Rod or Road 
and Track) said the TR2 had better acceleration than any stock American car. 
This quickly changed as the new generation of v-8s were being developed and 
fit to American cars.    The TR soldiered on with around 100 hp and weight a 
little over two tons in its various iterations through the introduction of 
the TR5 for the 1968 model year, which alas wasn't offered in the States due 
to well, I guess we don't need to start that topic again, but about this 
time the Germans, Italians and later the Japanese were using technology and 
innovation (aluminum heads and blocks, overhead cams, fuel injection) to 
keep cars performing and even increasing performance even with the tighter 
standards that strangled the British cars coming over here, killing off the 
AH and strangling the Triumphs and especially the MGs.  Story most of us 
have heard before.

But at one time you are very right Randall, the brits were really leaders in 
technology and innovation,  culminating in my opinion with the E-type and 
the Mini in the late fifties to very early sixties, two very advanced cars 
for their day by any standards, and still standard production cars available 
at very competitive prices with comparable or many times more pedestrian 
offerings from other countries.

Kind of a long rambling post, I kind of like studying and analyzing this 
stuff.

Greg Lemon

** [email-masked] **

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive

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From: Michael Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 21:55:33 -0600

On 3/10/2013 9:41 PM, Greg Lemon wrote:
> This quickly changed as the new generation of v-8s were being 
> developed and fit to American cars.    The TR soldiered on with around 
> 100 hp and weight a little over two tons in its various iterations

Two tons? I didn't know the TR came stock with 1800 lbs of concrete 
blocks in the trunk....

Cheers.

-- 

Michael Porter
Roswell, NM

Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance....

---

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:59:47 -0500

You are of course correct, meant one ton, must have been thinking of TWO 
thousand pounds, Greg

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael Porter" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:55 PM
To: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [TR] When to rebuild

>> This quickly changed as the new generation of v-8s were being developed 
>> and fit to American cars.    The TR soldiered on with around 100 hp and 
>> weight a little over two tons in its various iterations
>
> Two tons? I didn't know the TR came stock with 1800 lbs of concrete blocks 
> in the trunk....
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> -- 
>
>
> Michael Porter
> Roswell, NM
>
>

---

From: "Alex&Janet Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 09:49:03 -0400

I wonder if some industries were ahead of others when it came to engineering
and providing long-term value and reliability. When the John Deere model A
and B row crop tractors were introduced in 1934 and '35 respectively, both
were equipped with pressure lube systems with an easily adjustable relief
valve and a full-flow filter. The early filters were of a cleanable, metal
edge design made by Purolator. Later in the decade, paper elements were the
standard issue and an update kit allowed you to convert an older machine to
the newer style paper elements. That update kit is still available from
Deere, but for $220. The paper element, AR26350, lists for about $6.50 and
was used on tractors up through the very early seventies. Nearly 40 years
without a change of part numbers - that made it easy on the farm that
stocked filters for their tractors! 

Positive crankcase ventilation was also part of those 1930's machines. A
tube carried crankcase blow-by to the air cleaner inlet Later, in 1947, a
roller pump driven by the fan shaft was added to increase the efficiency of
the PCV system. It's always fascinating looking at old machine design. If
any of you have a "Popular Mechanics" or similar magazine from the 30's,
40's or even 50's, take a look at the number of ads for replacement piston
rings, bearings and valves. You will see references such as "at your next
regular valve grind" or "at the next bearing roll-in." What a difference
from today.

Thanks for the chance to reminisce.

Alex Thomson

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Randall
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 6:22 PM
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] When to rebuild

> Ah, yes.  We tend to forget the history of engine development.  In the 
> early days there was the total loss oiling systems.  Then the concept 
> of reusing the oil was introduced.  This led to oil filtering (bypass 
> filtering).

You left out the amusing part : Some car makers claimed that filtering the
oil was unnecessary!

My first car (a 62 Chevy) had the optional, bypass oil filter canister
mounted on a bracket, with external lines to an oil gallery and the side of
the crankcase.  Oddly enough, Triumph had already been using full-flow
filters for 6 or 7 years (and my Chevy also had the rope rear main seal),
showing again that they were actually innovative cars for their time.

-- Randall 

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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---

From: "TeriAnn J. Wakeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:55:56 -0700

On 3/11/13 6:49 AM, Alex&Janet Thomson wrote:
> and providing long-term value and reliability.
You folks are missing a critical parameter.

British sports cars were the most fun to drive at and under the speed 
limit and are still amongst the best in that category.  One can have 
loads of fun in a stock bugeye Sprite or Spit and not exceed the speed 
limit. Get into a Carrara with its big tyres and advance computer aided 
suspension and you need to top 100 MPH before you begin to approach the 
fun you can have in a TR at less than half that speed.

The tyres may be skinny, power outclassed by new low end econo boxes and 
the suspension may be archaic but British sports cars are driver's cars. 
Cars that can give you a taste of classic European Millie Migila, The 
Monte Carlo rally  and racing the streets of the 17 mile drive in Carmel.

They can also provide a taste of classic motoring with a wool car 
blanket and a wicker lunch basket tied to the luggage rack over the boot.

These cars are not obsolete. No, they are for the few people who have 
not forgotten how to have fun driving at under 100 MPH and who want to 
engage in motoring and the world they are traveling through.  There is 
no texting while driving a classic British sports car.  You are driving 
and paying attention to everything around you.  Engaging in life.

No, not obsolete at all

TeriAnn

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:37:02 -0500

Amen! 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of TeriAnn J. Wakeman
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:56 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] When to rebuild

On 3/11/13 6:49 AM, Alex&Janet Thomson wrote:
> I wonder if some industries were ahead of others when it came to 
> engineering and providing long-term value and reliability.

British sports cars were the most fun to drive at and under the speed limit
and are still amongst the best in that category.  One can have loads of fun
in a stock bugeye Sprite or Spit and not exceed the speed limit. Get into a
Carrara with its big tyres and advance computer aided suspension and you
need to top 100 MPH before you begin to approach the fun you can have in a
TR at less than half that speed.

The tyres may be skinny, power outclassed by new low end econo boxes and the
suspension may be archaic but British sports cars are driver's cars. 
Cars that can give you a taste of classic European Millie Migila, The Monte
Carlo rally  and racing the streets of the 17 mile drive in Carmel.

They can also provide a taste of classic motoring with a wool car blanket
and a wicker lunch basket tied to the luggage rack over the boot.

These cars are not obsolete. No, they are for the few people who have not
forgotten how to have fun driving at under 100 MPH and who want to engage in
motoring and the world they are traveling through.  There is no texting
while driving a classic British sports car.  You are driving and paying
attention to everything around you.  Engaging in life.

No, not obsolete at all

TeriAnn

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]