Subject: Re: [TR] Science of the "Oil Issue" Part 1

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 08:16:36 -0800

> a) It's the phosphorous in the Oil (NOT the Zinc) that forms 
> the barrier to abrasion on the surface of the lifters and camshaft.
> However, the phosphorous is carried in ZDDP-- Zinc 
> dialkyldithiophosphate--and thus why it's sometimes just 
> abbreviated as "zinc".

Sorry, but that's just silly.  Phosphorus by itself is a dangerous highly
reactive mineral that will literally burn when exposed to air.  ZDDP is a
complex organic compound with specific characteristics quite different than
either zinc or phosphorous.  Or carbon, or hydrogen, or oxygen, or sulfur;
all of which are also important parts of ZDDP.  So the important bit is the
concentration of ZDDP, not either zinc or phosphorous by itself. 

> c) Boron and Molybdenum are the anti-friction additives. 

Wrong again.  Those elements are part of the anti-friction additives, just
like zinc is part of ZDDP.  But it is the chemical that is important, not
which atoms it is made of.  Pure molybdenum would only increase friction.
The actual additive is again a complex organic molecule that includes
molybdenum or boron as one of it's elements.

Think about it, next time you sprinkle some salt on your food.  Salt is made
of chlorine and sodium, both highly toxic and dangerous elements.  But in
combination they are totally different (essential to life and so on).

> Moly, though, is the best and most expensive, but is also 
> magnetic (boron is not) Therefore, using a magnetic pickup 
> (drain plug or magnet on oil
> filter?) to trap metal particles is only rendering your oil 
> less effective!

Silly again.  Yes, metallic molybdenum is slightly magnetic.  So is sodium.
But neither salt nor the molybdenum compounds used as oil additives are
magnetic.  The familiar "dry moly" (aka molybdenum disulphide) is actually
slightly diamagnetic (meaning it gets repelled by a magnetic field).

Magnetic drain plugs are standard equipment on practically all expensive and
high-reliability engines; aircraft will typically even have a sensor that
lights a big red light when the plug gets too much magnetic crud on it.

Finally, keep in mind that this article was written by an employee of Joe
Gibbs.  You could hardly expect him to tell you that his employer sold an
inferior product ...

-- Randall 

** [email-masked] **

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From: Larry Griffin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:08:28 -0500

Randall,

Thank you for correcting the errors in the e-mail that I forwarded. I
suppose I was too trusting in passing on the information, and
certainly should not have retained that subject line based upon your
comments. :-(

Hope my posts do not lead anyone astray. I was most interested in the
idea of the possible interaction of the ZDDP and detergent levels. But
I guess that doesn't make much sense either, does it?

Thanks,
Larry

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:
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From: Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 0:35:50 +0000

> I guess that doesn't make much sense either, does it?

Actually, I believe that part does make sense.  Perhaps not exactly in those terms, but there is no doubt that various additives can interfere with each other's operation.  The literature is full of "This seemed to work by itself but didn't work when we combined it with that." stories.  The oil manufacturers put a lot of work into finding just the right amount of each additive, it is an engineering specialty all unto itself.  

And as I think has been pointed out before, even too much ZDDP can lead to problems.  That is why I think it makes far more sense to buy an oil already formulated to whatever your specifications are, than try to "improve" any old oil by dumping your own additives into it.

Randall