Subject: [TR] Why is the TR3 Hard Starting?

From: William Brewer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:20:45 -0800 (PST)

My TR3 is hard starting in the winter. It is garage kept and the garage
has been in the 60's inside. After not driving for 3 weeks it cranks slower
than I would like and tries to start and dies. It eventually will start. It
starts easily for the rest of the day. Then next day it starts readily as
well.
     If I leave the car out on a cold day (30's) it is hard starting as
well.

     I am debating what gives. Maybe the battery is just weak and the
next day it is all charged up and cranks faster. Could it be something else
that I am missing?

     -Bill in Tehachapi

** [email-masked] **

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:55:12 -0500 (EST)

Bill,
 
Could be two things......weak battery and/or fuel evaporating naturally in  
the fuel bowls.  Over the winter I try to get my TR4 out for a run at least 
 once a month and mine cranks a little slower at first and it takes a few 
cranks  to get her fired up.  If I come back in a week, it's almost as though 
it  were yesterday...fires right up. 
 
Interestingly, a three week layover in the summer doesn't seem to bother  
the starting......my guess is that the summer humidity slows down fuel  
evaporation.
 
So, assuming the battery is being completely charged and is holding a  
charge, if it starts fine and runs fine after it's been running and turned off,  
I'd say that the cranky starting after a long layover is just the "nature 
of the  beast".
 
Chip Krout
Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd.
Skippack, PA 
1962 TR4  CT2052L

In a message dated 3/4/2013 12:46:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

After  not driving for 3 weeks it cranks slower
than I would like and tries to  start and dies. It eventually will  start.

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From: Darrell Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 06:28:56 -0800

A couple of things to try.  If you have a priming lever on your fuel pump, use
that to make sure your float bowls are full.  If you have battery charger,
make sure your battery is fully charged and see if that affects your starting.
If your battery is weak, causing slow cranking, it may also be causing a weak
spark.  If your choke isn't working well, that could create a too-lean mixture
(which would exacerbate a weak spark problem).

-Darrell

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:24:14 -0600

Bill,

This is a long shot but it actually happened to me a few years ago with the
early style starter on TS30766L.  Car was real hard to turnover on the
initial starting for the day, but after that it was fine.  I thought it was
a battery issue, discharging over the week, so I bought a new one.  Then had
the starter re-built and when that did not cure it I even added a separate
ground to the starter bolt as well as double-checking all the battery
connections.

Well, it was the steel-encased rubber collar (Moss:"Sleeve Assembly" p/n
549-580) that was beginning to fail and did not get replaced by the
re-builder.  Bought a new one from Moss, re-build shop replaced it at n/c,
Bob's your uncle and all has been right since then.

Yes, the fuel in the float does evaporate and so the first start after a
week or three of idleness take a few extra cranks with full choke to get
everything flowing.... but she always starts.

BTDT,
Bill

Bill Beecher
'58 TR3A TS/30766L "Tarbaby"
'62 TR3B TCF/2549L " Aunt B" (in rehab)
www.triumphowners.com/1566
'68 Land Rover Series IIa 88" "The Beast"
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit
there"  Will Rodgers

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of William Brewer
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:21 PM
To: Triumphs
Subject: [TR] Why is the TR3 Hard Starting?

     I am debating what gives. Maybe the battery is just weak and the next
day it is all charged up and cranks faster. Could it be something else that
I am missing?

     -Bill in Tehachapi

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:24:45 -0800

>      My TR3 is hard starting in the winter. It is garage kept 
> and the garage has been in the 60's inside. After not driving 
> for 3 weeks it cranks slower than I would like and tries to 
> start and dies. It eventually will start. It starts easily 
> for the rest of the day. Then next day it starts readily as well.

Sounds to me like multiple (tho possibly related) problems.

Cold weather is a quadruple whammy: batteries lose a lot of performance when
they are cold, it's harder for the spark to jump the gap, fuel doesn't want
to vaporize, and the engine is harder to turn.  Cold weather basically
brings out the worst, so a lot of marginal problems only show up when the
engine is cold.

I would probably start by finding some place that can do a battery load test
and starter current test.  I know O'Reillys will do it for free, not sure
about NAPA or AutoZone (so call around first).  Even if they don't spot a
problem with it, might be worth pulling the starter for inspection.  I had
one where the drive end bushing was worn until the armature was rubbing on
the pole pieces, that didn't like to crank in cold weather but worked OK
when it was warm.

You can also try cranking for about 30 seconds with a coil wire off, and
then feeling the battery posts and other connections to the starter
(including the grounds and solenoid body).  If something is hot, you found a
bad connection.

Be sure the choke is lowering both jets by at least 1/4" and roughly the
same amount.  My TR likes lots of choke when the weather is cold (but back
off by about half as soon as the engine fires to avoid black smoke and
washing the cylinder walls).

I'm assuming you have reasonably thin oil, fresh plugs and so on.

-- Randall

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 22:48:15 +0000 (UTC)

>starts easily for the rest of the day.     

Mine had been sitting since December, also in a garage.  Was so hard to start, I had to check spark and fuel to make sure it was getting any.  It was, and eventually kicked over.  Even then, it wouldn't reve right away, not til it warmed up. 

I was figuring that it's all because the engine only has about 2,000 miles on it and is tight.

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A  TS 58667
New Hampshire

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 18:08:54 -0500 (EST)

I've found that priming the fuel pump, before the first start each day,  
helps a lot. Just open the bonnet, reach down to the fuel pump on the driver's 
 side (LHD). Below the fuel pump is a lever that you lift in rapid 
succession and  this pumps fuel through to the carburettors. Then, when you press 
the starter  button, the car bursts into life almost immediately.
 
Of course, this assumes that everything else is as it should be, in terms  
of ignition, carburetion, etc.
 
Tim

>than I would like and tries to  start and dies. It eventually will start. 
It
>starts easily for the rest  of the day.     

Mine had been sitting since December,  also in a garage.  Was so hard to 
start, I had to check spark and fuel to  make sure it was getting any.  It 
was, and eventually kicked over.   Even then, it wouldn't reve right away, not 
til it warmed up. 

I was  figuring that it's all because the engine only has about 2,000 miles 
on it and  is tight.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 00:31:39 +0000 (UTC)

>Mine had been sitting since December, also in a garage.  Was so hard to start, I had to check spark and fuel to make sure it was getting any.  It was, and >eventually kicked over.  Even then, it wouldn't reve right away, not til it warmed up. 

>I was figuring that it's all because the engine only has about 2,000 miles on it and is tight.

I should have added, I have an electric fuel pump and I wait for pressure to fill the resevoirs.  And I run a gear reduction starter.  Temp in the garage is barely 42 degrees so I'm liking the concept of fuel that is so cold it doesn't want to vaporize.  Especially sounds good when I got a stronger idle as the engine (and gas line) warmed up.  

Terry