Subject: [TR] Winter Warning From Standard Triumph:)

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:46:59 -0500 (EST)

Suddenly (after 50 degree days last weekend), we bounced back into sub  
freezing winter with ice, snow, etc so I decided to pull out some old workshop  
manuals and assorted other Triumph reading and came across this very 
appropriate  winter warning....
 
"The heater blower is only to augment the airflow through the  car in 
difficult conditions.  Do not use it unnecessarily, especially at  speed when it 
is not required.  Remember that in winter conditions with the  lights on and 
other accessories in use, the current load will be  considerable.  In cold 
weather.....if there is too great a load.....the  generator may fail to keep 
the battery fully charged"
 
Wow.....you gotta love it!  Imagine Chevrolet or Ford advising their  
customers in 1962 not to run the heater fan, headlights and windshield wipers at  
the same time in winter or risk a dead battery.....
 
Despite the "warning", I did manage to keep my TR3's battery alive enough  
to keep going back in the 60's during commutes to college in winter with 
radio,  lights, and fan motor on at full voltage.....I guess I would have been 
more  concerned if I paid attention to the AMP gauge but I then I was 
distracted  by the snow coming into the cockpit between the top of the windscreen 
and the  top:)
 
Chip Krout
Delaware Valley Triumphs, Ltd.
Skippack, PA 
1962 TR4  CT2052L

** [email-masked] **

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 07:44:05 -0800

> "The heater blower is only to augment the airflow through the 
>  car in difficult conditions.  Do not use it unnecessarily, 

Do you mind sharing where that tidbit was?  ISTR a note in one of the
Triumph manuals that said to use a battery charger after a "winter run", but
I can't seem to find that now either.

-- Randall

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From: "Andrew S. Mace" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:08:08 -0500 (EST)

Randall, you beat me to this question! I don't recall seeing it in any Herald
or Spitfire literature, which undoubtedly explains why, all these years, I've
been able to  run heater, lights, wipers and such with no complaints from any
part of the charging system, all the while blissfully ignorant of the
repercussions! :D

--Andy Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph
Herald engine with wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22)

Triumph 10 / Herald / Sports 6 vehicle consultant, The Vintage Triumph
Register: http://www.vtr.org

Check out the North American Triumph Sports 6 (Vitesse 6) and Triumph Herald
Database: http://triumph-herald.us

-----Original Message-----
From: Randall <[email-masked]>

 Do you mind sharing where that tidbit was?  ISTR a note in one of theTriumph
manuals that said to use a battery charger after a "winter run", butI can't
seem to find that now either.-- Randall

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:13:24 -0800

> which undoubtedly 
> explains why, all these years, I've been able to  run heater, 
> lights, wipers and such with no complaints from any part of 
> the charging system, all the while blissfully ignorant of the 
> repercussions! :D

No doubt.  I wasn't quite so lucky; used to have a dead battery at least
twice a week because the generator just couldn't keep up with a short
commute at night in cold rainy (or snowy) weather.  At first I tried turning
up the control box, but that burned out generators; then I took some
measurements and discovered that the total load (on that TR3A) was well over
20 amps (not counting brake lights) while the stock generator was only rated
at 19 amps.

But part of the problem may have been that I wasn't using "Prince of
Darkness" bulbs (the specs in the manual are remarkably low compared to
US-spec bulbs) and had rewound the heater motor in search of a bit more heat
output.

-- Randall

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:17:36 -0500 (EST)

ha, ha, ha.....I used to carry a blanket or two but mostly to keep my  
girlfriends warm.....ahhhh - those were the days:)

In a message dated 1/28/2013 12:39:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

I can't  remember which car it was, but one of the British roadsters
from the 60's  had an available "cold weather equipment" package.  One
of the items  in that package was a blanket.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 8:46 AM,   <[email-masked]> wrote:
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From: WILLIAM SMITH <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:13:18 -0500

In a similar encounter with Jaguar executives, my neighbor, who worked at
Jaguar headquarters at the time it was owned by Ford, told me that a Ford
exec asked a Jag exec why Jags were not made to be more reliable.  The Jag
exec responded that it was because Jag owners liked to work on their cars.

Bill Smith

'72 TR6 (original owner)

'80 TR7 DHC (2nd owner)

_____________________________________

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:59:59 -0500

From: Triumph List <[email-masked]>

To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>

Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>

Subject: Re: [TR] Winter Warning From Standard Triumph:)

Reminds me of the story of when Sir William Lyons visited the Jaguar dealer
in

New York during a very bad winter storm. The sales rep asked why Jaguar

couldn't build a heater sufficient to keep the interior warm. Lyons reply
was

why is it that Americans cant learn to dress appropriately for the weather!

Larry Miceli

58 TR3

73 Stag

74 TR6

Sent from my iPhone

)

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:10:59 -0500 (EST)

Back in those days the batteries were much more tolerant of deeper 
discharges.  But since then there has been a CCA arms race where battery 
manufacturers tout huge numbers for Cold Cranking Amps such as 650 CCA and consumers 
have responded positively.  Nevermind that that is about 200 or 300% more than 
what is required.  (More, actually since the spec is for a 10 second 
cranking period and any modern car that doesn't start after two seconds isn't 
going to start.)

To get all those CCA's the battery manufacturers have to make more plate 
area and to keep the battery from getting much heavier (and more expensive) 
they have resorted to making the plates thinner.  Thinner plates means a 
smaller amount of discharge can leave holes in the plates (reducing plate area) 
which do not readily grow back upon recharge.  But, no problem.  All cars 
nowadays have high capacity alternators which can supply all the cars 
electrical requirements under all conditions (provided the engine is running).  

The upshot is that given the recent trend in battery design fitting an 
alternator to a TR that is driven frequently or daily is not so much a luxury as 
it is a necessary accommodation of modern battery technology.

Or you can get a deep discharge marine battery.  Or the Optima 
YellowTop(R)* battery.  (*NFI)

Dave