Subject: [TR] A type overdrive solenoid problem?

From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:49:59 -0600

The OD on my TR6 stopped working so I did the trouble shooting process  
in Dan Master's electrical manual and found I have voltage all through  
the circuit all the way to the bullet that connects the (yellow with  
purple stripe) wire to the solenoid. The voltage can be switched on  
and off with the OD selector switch on the column so everything works  
up to the point where it connects to the solenoid. But the solenoid  
doesn't engage.

So the solenoid is bad right? What has me stumped is that the solenoid  
will operate if I hook it directly to an extra battery that I have.  
Why would it work with 12 volts directly but not 12 volts through the  
circuit? I even swapped out another solenoid from another A type OD  
and that one does exactly the same thing. Works with a direct hookup  
to a battery but not with the circuit. I checked to see if the  
solenoid is grounded and it has continuity according to my meter.

With the solenoid hooked to the system when I engage the OD switch the  
voltage goes as far as the bullet but doesn't register at the  
solenoid. It's as if the solenoid "clogs" the flow of the voltage.

What could be causing the solenoids to work with a direct battery  
(voltage measured at 12.11) but not with the circuit (voltage measured  
at 12.75)?

I'm stumped. How can both solenoids work in one situation and not the  
other?

Thanks
Bud Rolofson

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
66TR4A CTC57529 (The Project)
71F-250 Camper Special (Triumph Support Vehicle)
Z-50A Hardly Davidson 1977 Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)

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From: "Greg Gelhar" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 12:37:06 -0500

Bud, can you measure the voltage at the solenoid connection with the 
solenoid in the circuit? It is possible to measure the correct voltage at 
the disconnected wire because the meter does not load the circuit down. If, 
with the solenoid in the circuit, you do not see the correct voltage, then 
there is a high resistance connection somewhere to the solenoid.

Greg G.
Osseo,MN

---

From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 12:19:10 -0600

I did check the voltage at the yellow purple wire directly on the  
solenoid (you have to remove the plastic cap to get to that wire) and  
that's when it "clogs up".  The voltage reads in the hundredths of  
voltages instead of 12.75. I guess I could have two bad solenoids but  
the fact that they work with a direct hookup to a battery that has  
less voltage than the one in the car is a puzzle. I'm thinking there  
is a grounding issue. I guess the grounding could be affected over  
time by corrosion or dirt but I can't seem to find where that problem  
is if it's that.

Thanks
Bud

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)

On Oct 3, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Greg Gelhar wrote:

> solenoid in the circuit? It is possible to measure the correct  
> voltage at the disconnected wire because the meter does not load the  
> circuit down. If, with the solenoid in the circuit, you do not see  
> the correct voltage, then there is a high resistance connection  
> somewhere to the solenoid.
>
>
> Greg G.
> Osseo,MN
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bud Rolofson" <[email-masked] 
> >

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 12:09:12 -0700

I assume you have the gearbox in a gear that permits solenoid operation
(3rd or 4th)?

Geo

---

From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 13:14:33 -0600

Yes, ignition on, shifter in 4th gear, OD selector switch on.

Thanks
Bud

71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)

On Oct 3, 2012, at 1:09 PM, Geo Hahn wrote:

> I assume you have the gearbox in a gear that permits solenoid  
> operation (3rd or 4th)?
>
> Geo
>

---

From: Dean Tetterton <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:46:22 -0400

There are points on the top of the solenoid. They should be closed to
pull in and open when the plunger is all the way up.
Are the points clean? and are they working. There are two windings
in the solenoid, one strong to pull it in and a weaker one to hold it
in.

Dean

On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Bud Rolofson wrote:

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:26:56 -0700 (PDT)

If wired normally, the gearbox switches only operate a relay which in turn
operates the solenoid. Do you hear the relay operate when you turn the switch
on and off? You could also try 2nd gear.
 
Bob Maassel
59 TR3A
To:
Geo Hahn <[email-masked]> 
Cc: [email-masked] 
Sent: Wednesday,
October 3, 2012 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TR] A type overdrive solenoid problem?
Yes, ignition on, shifter in 4th gear, OD selector switch on.

Thanks
Bud
71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6)
71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3
66TR4A CTC57529 (The
Project)
71F-250 Camper Special (Triumph Support Vehicle)
Z-50A Hardly
Davidson 1977 Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike)

On Oct 3, 2012,
at 1:09 PM, Geo Hahn wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012
at 8:49 AM, Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>  
> wrote:
> What could be
causing the solenoids to work with a direct battery
> (voltage measured at
12.11) but not with the circuit (voltage measured
> I'm
stumped. How can both solenoids work in one situation and not the
> other?

**
[email-masked] **

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From: "Peter Ryner" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:46:40 -0400

All,
My '56 TR-3 is in need of a respray.  It was last done in 1991 with RM 
Diamond paint system.  Although not original type paint, I was very pleased 
with the looks of the finished product.  I took the car to a shop last week 
and they recommended a base coat clear coat system.  Said it would look much 
better and will hold up better.  I have mixed feelings about a new paint 
system on a 56 year old car.  I've kept most everything original but it will 
never be a concours car.  Any experience or views on the subject?  I haven't 
seen a TR with a new clear coat system on it.
TIA
Pete

---

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 20:35:33 -0500

You will get all sorts of opinions on this, I personally think a single 
stage looks more original, and that a base coat clear coat looks a little 
too shiny wet.  It is certainly more of an eye catcher on the show circuit.

I know most of the modern shops swear by it, I am just a very amateur 
painter/restorer, but I also look at the basecoat/clearcoat as more 
steps/more opportunities for something to go wrong in the paint process.

But it is very much a personal choice/preferance.

Greg Lemon

---

From: Wbeech <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 21:08:07 -0500

I have BC-CC on my black TR3, four years old, looks great.  It is shinier than
the original paint but holds up nicely and is easy to shine up for a parade or
show.
Bill

Sent from mobile Bill

On Oct 3, 2012, at 6:46 PM, "Peter Ryner" <[email-masked]> wrote:

All,
My '56 TR-3 is in need of a respray.  It was last done in 1991 with RM Diamond
paint system.  Although not original type paint, I was very pleased with the
looks of the finished product.  I took the car to a shop last week and they
recommended a base coat clear coat system.  Said it would look much better and
will hold up better.  I have mixed feelings about a new paint system on a 56
year old car.  I've kept most everything original but it will never be a
concours car.  Any experience or views on the subject?  I haven't seen a TR
with a new clear coat system on it.
TIA
Pete
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From: John Young <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 06:13:37 -0700 (PDT)

I think that such a shiny finish is quite out of place on a car that old. A
good polyurathane would look much better In my eyes.
Just my personal opinion.
John Young NASS# 528
Indiana
'78 Spitfire
'66 Spitfire
________________________________
 From: Peter Ryner <[email-masked]>
To:
[email-masked] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:46 PM
Subject:
[TR] Feelings about  paint types
  
All,
My '56 TR-3 is in need of a respray. 
It was last done in 1991 with RM Diamond paint system.  Although not original
type paint, I was very pleased with the looks of the finished product.  I took
the car to a shop last week and they recommended a base coat clear coat
system.  Said it would look much better and will hold up better.  I have mixed
feelings about a new paint system on a 56 year old car.  I've kept most
everything original but it will never be a concours car.  Any experience or
views on the subject?  I haven't seen a TR with a new clear coat system on it.
TIA
Pete 
** [email-masked] **

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From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:22:00 -0700

I suspect the shops like base/clear coat because it is less labor for them
to get a great result.  I have the clear coat on my TR3A and it did indeed
look very shiny when done (12 years ago) but I think it shows it age more
that a traditional paint.  I drive a lot and don't care about car shows
(but like the car to look nice) and find the assorted nicks & scuffs are
harder to deal with in the clear coat -- also getting some cracks around
the holes for badges, hinges, etc.
By way of contrast, my TR4 has it's original paint and nicks & scratches
are easy to fix.

Probably depends on how you plan to use the car, what your objectives are
and how long you intend to keep it.

Geo

---

From: "Dave Connitt" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:13:18 -0400

Hi Peter,
I recently finished up painting my TR4A IRS using RM Diamont base coat and 
Limco LC1000 clear coat. I couldn't be happier with the results. I am not 
looking for a "authentic" finish so shiny is good.
The clear coat allows you to color sand and buff the final paint to be 
mirror smooth. If your into that, Base/Clear is the way to go. The single 
stage paints are more for the guy looking for a original finish tends to be 
not as smooth. I agree with one of the other guys who said most painters 
will push to go Base/Clear as that is what they use in the collision repair 
business. The single stage enamels will be much cheaper material wise.
I painted mine myself and so I saved some money on labor but it was still 
about $800.00 or so just in material.

'67 TR4A IRS
http://home.fuse.net/davest4a

---

From: Jeff <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:27:01 -0400

On 10/3/2012 11:49 AM, Bud Rolofson wrote:
> circuit?

Will the solenoid wire light up a stoplight bulb?

---

From: "Wbeech" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 22:31:22 -0500

Got to thinking during this thread.  Can you go the basecoat/clearcoat route
and use a less glossy clearcoat to more closely mimic the original
single-stage paints?

Just thinking out loud,
Bill 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Dave Connitt
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 6:13 PM
To: Peter Ryner; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Feelings about paint types

Hi Peter,

'67 TR4A IRS

---

From: alan salvatore <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 05:25:11 -0400

I've painted a couple of TR's and I prefer the single stage and then I use
a cocktail of clear in the final coat.

The single stage can still be color sanded if you want a super smooth
finish.

The single stage also more closely duplicates the original enamel in that
when you polish it, in that the color comes off on your rag.  A clear coat
has no color of course.
All the new paints are going to give a much brighter finish than the enamel.

I  also don't like the way the clearcoat has a tendency to flake off with
age.

Al

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Peter Ryner <[email-masked]> wrote:

> and they recommended a base coat clear coat system.  Said it would look
> much better and will hold up better.  I have mixed feelings about a new
> paint system on a 56 year old car.  I've kept most everything original but
> it will never be a concours car.  Any experience or views on the subject?
>  I haven't seen a TR with a new clear coat system on it.
> TIA
> Pete
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
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> options/triumphs/alansalvy@**gmail.com<http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]>

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From: "Dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:12:46 -0500

I think you can do different things with clearcoat.  on my 6, which is 
supposed to have a flat black tail, my painter used clearcoat and (don't ask 
me how) gave it a flat instead of gloss finish.  I think its absolutely 
perfect in mimicing the flat black, yet gives me a surface I can clean and 
polish.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Wbeech
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:31 PM
To: 'Dave Connitt' ; 'Peter Ryner' ; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] Feelings about paint types

Just thinking out loud,
Bill

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:00:11 -0700

At best, that would seem to give you the look of original paint with the
disadvantages of clear coat (easily scratched, might fog or peel, harder to
touch-up)..

Geo

---

From: "TeriAnn J. Wakeman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 07:46:22 -0700

And there is the way the clear coat looks after a few years when it 
becomes cloudy and is flaking off.  I see those way too often in parking 
lots.  How does one repair or polish up a cloudy flaking clear top 
coat?  I don't think you could hit it with some rubbing compound and 
follow it up with polish like you can with a one step paint.

TeriAnn

---

From: Bud Rolofson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 13:54:38 -0600

List,

Got the relay on and the OD works as it should. As always I learned a  
lot from list contributors. Thanks to all.

Now that I have that issue licked hopefully, It's on to Galveston for  
VTR.

Thanks
Bud