Subject: [TR] Best Anti-Rust Coolant

From: William Brewer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT)

I need to add/change the coolant in my  TR3. I remember years ago I used
something that I bought at a Toyota dealer ISTR. It may have been called
"No-Rosian" or something like that. What are the best coolants to use in a TR
to minimize rust build-up in the block? I don't want to use Prestone or
Autozone cheapie if there is something good out there.
     TIA,

     Bill in
Tehachapi   

** [email-masked] **

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From: Darrell Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:48:56 -0700

Hi Bill,

Fred Thomas was an advocate of No-Rosion:

http://www.no-rosion.com

I've used it in my TR4A for several years, and it seems to be doing the job.

-Darrell

-- 
Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:53:15 -0700

> I've used it in my TR4A for several years, and it seems to be 

It does seem to work, if you follow their maintenance schedule.  Personally,
I prefer Zerex G-05 or Prestone "Extended Life" that you only have to mess
with every 5 years instead of every year.

Hopefully, I've finally built a cooling system in my TR that will go that
long without attention.

-- Randall

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:14:00 -0400

My mechanics for my 2001 Tacoma and 2008 RX350 swear by the Toyota red
coolant for Toyotas -- they think it lasts longer, protects parts better,
and don't use the standard brands they'll use anywhere else in a Toyota.  A
voice of experience -- the guys at Len's Automotive here in STL are the
best I've ever had work on a car.

The September 2012 issue of TR Action has a full page ad for Evans
waterless engine coolants.
in the UK link from the ad: http://wwwe.evanscoolants.co.uk/products.html
and the US--based home office here:
http://www.evanscooling.com/about-us/company-background/

The FAQ on the site is quite informative, eh?

Q. What is Evans Waterless Coolant made of?

A. Evans Waterless Coolants are patented synthetic non-toxic liquids
blended with a non-aqueous proprietary inhibitor package.

Jay Leno talks about it here:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/car-care/waterless-engine-coolant/index.
shtml

The 0 psi boiling point is 3750 F (1900 C).  They're promoted as "lifetime"
cooling system fluids.

I guess I'm kind of out of touch these days -- I don't know this company's
products.  Advanced racing cars (like F1) don't use water in their cooling
systems as far as I know.  And a chemist, this makes perfect sense.  Water
is an incredibly aggressive solvent -- because we're water-based we don't
really think about it -- even though it does have good heat-carrying
capacity.  Not at all surprising that non-aqueous fluid heat transfer
agents would be available.

Anyone have any experience?

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Randall <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:13:54 -0700

> A. Evans Waterless Coolants are patented synthetic non-toxic 
> liquids blended with a non-aqueous proprietary inhibitor package.

ISTR that, if you poke around on their site a bit, there are instructions on
how to upgrade your cooling system to work with their coolant.  Higher
viscosity means less flow (all other things being equal), and lower heat
capacity means less heat transfer for a given flow.  The higher boiling
point may compensate for that in most cases, but who wants to run around
with the temperature gauge on the peg?

My only experiment with waterless coolant was many years ago, with a TR that
had persistent overheating problems.  Running pure ethylene glycol (Evans is
supposedly a ethylene/propylene mix), the engine did not boil over (and the
temp gauge was already ruined).  But the experiment ended in disaster when
the true reason for the persistent overheating became apparent.  The out of
control EGT caused an exhaust valve stem to burn through, and the valve head
wound up in the crankcase along with most of the liner.

I also believe that running too high a proportion of EG was a contributing
factor to my Stag overheating and blowing a head gasket on the way home from
VTR 2005.

-- Randall

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:54:50 -0400

"The 0 psi boiling point is 3750 F (1900 C)."... Sorry for the confusion in
the [ALT + 0176] degrees symbol not mapping over to the simple text of
team.net.  It should read 375-degrees F and 190-degrees C, of course.

The heat capacity of water is about 4.2 J/cubic cm-K-degree.  Propylene
glycol is about 2.5, ethylene glycol about 2.4.  Densities are less than 5%
different, so on a volumetric basis water can carry over 60% greater heat.
 This is why we normally don't run 100% antifreeze in our systems, and
probably one of the reasons our old TRs were originally instructed to run
with "clean rain water" unless it was frosty.  More antifreeze isn't better.

So what's really different from the waterless coolants and running 100%
regular antifreeze?  Propylene vs ethylene glycol?  That doesn't seem like
much...

Don

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:11:12 +0000 (UTC)

Seems to be a lot of conversation here about alternative coolants.  I don't know.  I've used Prestone 50/50 for years, stripped down engines with a hundred thousand miles on them, and have seen no sign of corrosion.  Not sure but that this is all really much ado about nothing.

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From: "John & Pat Donnelly" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:47:35 -0700

Just so I understand this correctly, having coolent in the water allows the
water in the cooling system to run more efficiently. So if I have proper
50/50 mix then when the gauge shows an increased temp the car is really
being stressed.

I run straight water with no problems.

Johnnie
'67 tr4a

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:triumphs-
>

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From: "Dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:56:20 -0500

>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An antifreeze is a chemical additive which lowers the freezing point of a 
water-based liquid. An antifreeze mixture is used to achieve freezing-point 
depression for cold environments and also achieves boiling-point elevation 
("anti-boil") to allow higher coolant temperature. Freezing and boiling 
points are colligative properties of a solution, which depend on the 
concentration of the dissolved substance.

Because water has good properties as a coolant, antifreeze is used in 
internal combustion engines and other heat transfer applications, such as 
HVAC chillers and solar water heaters. The purpose of antifreeze is to 
prevent a rigid enclosure from undergoing catastrophic deformation due to 
expansion when water turns to ice. Commercially, either the additive or the 
mixture may be referred to as antifreeze. Careful selection of an antifreeze 
can enable a wide temperature range in which the mixture remains in the 
liquid phase, which is critical to efficient heat transfer and the proper 
functioning of heat exchangers.

from what I understand, 50/50 is not the ideal mixture.  more like 2/3 water 
1/3 antifreeze is better.

is there a chemist on the list who can explain what effect, if any, 
antifreeze has on the boiling point?

-----Original Message----- 
From: John & Pat Donnelly
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:47 PM
To: 'Triumphs'
Subject: Re: [TR] Best Anti-Rust Coolant

Johnnie
'67 tr4a

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:10:52 -0700

> antifreeze has on the boiling point?

I'm not a chemist, but adding antifreeze does raise the boiling point.  For
commonly used concentrations, it's only by 10 or 15 degrees F, but it does
raise it some.  There is a chart at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

Whether that is enough to compensate for its otherwise poor effect on
cooling, I don't know.  In my limited tests though, it would seem not.

-- Randall

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:43:15 -0500

Mixing some other sort of molecule with water raises its boiling point
and depresses its freezing point.  Part of a set of properties called
"colligative properties" of materials.

Antifreeze has a real function -- irrespective of the heat capacity
advantages of water (and it makes an excellent heat transfer fluid),
ya got that pesky freezing point to deal with.  The ratio of ethylene
glycol (or other material -- nuthin' magic about glycol) to water
determines the freezing point depression.  Plenty of websites show
freezing point as a function of blend ratio -- your jug of ethylene
glycol should as well.  Adding more ethylene glycol than needed for
the temperatures expected reduces heat capacity of the fluid
unnessarily and wastes ethylene glycol.

Anti-boilover properties come along for the ride, but if you're adding
something to raise the boiling point of water in a TR you have bigger
issues.

Don

PS:  My mom smiled for years at the memory of my dad checking a
boiling over radiator before I was born by holding a match in the dark
to the filler neck.  Whoosh!  The alcohol vapors of the pre-ethylene
glycol antifreeze flashed and burned off his eyebrows.

- Show quoted text -

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From: Darrell Walker <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:48:56 -0700

Hi Bill,

http://www.no-rosion.com

-Darrell

-- 
Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:53:15 -0700

-- Randall

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:14:00 -0400

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:13:54 -0700

-- Randall

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:54:50 -0400

Don

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:11:12 +0000 (UTC)

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From: "John & Pat Donnelly" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:47:35 -0700

Johnnie
'67 tr4a

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From: "Dave" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:56:20 -0500

-----Original Message----- 
From: John & Pat Donnelly
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:47 PM
To: 'Triumphs'
Subject: Re: [TR] Best Anti-Rust Coolant

Johnnie
'67 tr4a

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:10:52 -0700

-- Randall

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From: Don Hiscock <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 21:43:15 -0500

Don

- Show quoted text -