Subject: [TR] TR6 Repro Bumper - Quality??

From: "D&B Lambert" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:03:27 -0700

Hello,
Can anyone comment from an experience standpoint on the quality of the repro
bumpers for an early TR6?  I've heard things from "don't bother, they're
made from tin foil" to "not as good as original but it's ok".  I'm
interested specifically about the rear bumper center section for my '71 TR6.
Does anyone have one on their car at this time?  Has it been ok?  Any
vendors better than the others?  I'd much rather have the original
straightened and re-chromed, but here in SoCal the price of chrome work has
gone astronomical.
Thanks, Dennis

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From: Bob Labuz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:27:44 -0400

Dennis,

I have seen SS versions of the early bumpers on Ebay from time to time. 
But only full sets of rear + front. They are going for about 1K. I have 
know knowledge of quality.

I had both my complete 3 piece rear and front bumpers (4 pieces) re 
chromed at a local plater for about 900 bucks 5 years ago. They even 
removed a small dent from the center rear bumper. Chrome is still as 
delivered.

The bumpers did not have any rust or pitting. They were just a bit on 
the green side, (nickel showing). That is why I chose to have them re 
chromed. You might want to check with some chrome shops that do 
motorcycles. They may be able to help you even though they may use out 
of state resources.

Bob

  On 08/27/2012 10:03 AM, D&B Lambert wrote:
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:20:58 -0400

> here in SoCal the price of chrome work has
> gone astronomical.

I hear it's much cheaper across the border, either to the east or the south.

-- Randall

---

From: robert rudolphi <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:51:17 -0700 (PDT)

Hello All,
I am considering adding an oil cooler (13 row) to my 74 TR6. TRF has them on sale and now may be a good time to purchase. I run 20-50 and really only drive the car in the summer. I have noticed a drop in pressure as the car warms up to around 10-15PSI at idle. My questions are do I need to add a thermostat? When changing the oil how to you get old oil out of the cooler, or do you need not worry about that? Any other concerns I should be aware of.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Robert
Robert Rudolphi
1974 TR6

---

From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:39:02 -0700

East being (among other places) Tucson, Arizona:

It's been awhile since I had any bumpers done but I had the TR3 & 4 valve
covers rechromed earlier this year at Royal Plating and they were $75 each.

Royal does it all though there are other local shops that (I've heard) do
the prep & final but send it to Royal for the actual plating.

Geo

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I hear it's much cheaper across the border, either to the east or the
> south...

---

From: "Robert M. Lang" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 15:46:29 -0400 (EDT)

Hi,

Whether you need an oil cooler is subject for debate. Going out on a limb 
here, a street driven motor would probably never see critical oil temps, 
hence the oil cooler is not needed. If, on the other hand, you have a race 
motor that sees high-rpm, heavy load operation, then the oil cooler would 
be called for. The one exception for a street-driven car would be if you 
tow or you plan to sit in traffic all the time.

As a single data point, I have a 12:1 motor in an autocrosser and I do run 
an oil cooler. With no oil cooler, I would see oil temps in excess of 210 
on a hot day. With the oil cooler I do see up to about 180 when it gets 
really hot and I have two drivers and there's an occasional spike to 
200-ish. So the delta T with a 13-row cooler is 10 - 30 derees oil temp. I 
have a 13-row cooler and I have a thermostatic bypass valve.

But to the point - with an oil cooler and the old-style oil (20w50), 
you're giving up horsepower due to parasitic drag from the oil. There are 
other side-issues that are related to the oil being too cool.

I guess the point is, there's not much to be gained by the oil cooler 
except possibly the ooh-ahh factor. In any case, if you do run an oil 
cooler make sure that you have one of the thermostatically controlled 
bypass thingies because if you don't run one of those and you run your car 
when it's cold the oil will NEVER get to operating temps and you'll be 
bypassing the pressure relief valve all the time because the oil pressure 
will STAY at 100+ psi all the time. This is patently bad, IMHO. Also note 
that you are adding a maintenance item to your system...

regarding maintenance of an oil cooler, with a thermostatic bypass, you 
need to test the thing to make sure it's actually working, so add that to 
your monthly to-do list. You also need to keep a sharp eye on the cooler 
and hoses for problems. The oil flows through the system at line pressure, 
so a tiny crack in the cooler itself can turn into a gusher at (usually) 
the worst time. There's also the issue of purging the oil cooler during 
oil changes so that you get a full, fresh charge of new oil during oil 
changes... which is one of the points of doing oil changes.

But that's my two cents on the matter. Like I said, I have one on the race 
car. I don't have one on the street car.

c ya,
rml
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lang              Triumph TR6!!            |  This space for rent
Former NER Solo Chair                          |
Voice:617-253-7438                             |  Cell: 339-927-4489
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: "Andrew Uprichard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 16:43:14 -0400

Another consideration is blowing the oil cooler on a cold day if you don't
run it with a thermostat.  The coolers aren't meant to deal with the high
pressure of oil on a cold day.  Plus, the first thing you may notice is when
that oil warning light comes on.......

Andrew Uprichard

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Robert M. Lang
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 3:46 PM
To: robert rudolphi
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [6pack] TR6 Oil Cooler

Hi,

Whether you need an oil cooler is subject for debate. Going out on a limb
here, a street driven motor would probably never see critical oil temps,
hence the oil cooler is not needed. If, on the other hand, you have a race
motor that sees high-rpm, heavy load operation, then the oil cooler would be
called for. The one exception for a street-driven car would be if you tow or
you plan to sit in traffic all the time.

As a single data point, I have a 12:1 motor in an autocrosser and I do run
an oil cooler. With no oil cooler, I would see oil temps in excess of 210 on
a hot day. With the oil cooler I do see up to about 180 when it gets really
hot and I have two drivers and there's an occasional spike to 200-ish. So
the delta T with a 13-row cooler is 10 - 30 derees oil temp. I have a 13-row
cooler and I have a thermostatic bypass valve.

But to the point - with an oil cooler and the old-style oil (20w50), you're
giving up horsepower due to parasitic drag from the oil. There are other
side-issues that are related to the oil being too cool.

I guess the point is, there's not much to be gained by the oil cooler except
possibly the ooh-ahh factor. In any case, if you do run an oil cooler make
sure that you have one of the thermostatically controlled bypass thingies
because if you don't run one of those and you run your car when it's cold
the oil will NEVER get to operating temps and you'll be bypassing the
pressure relief valve all the time because the oil pressure will STAY at
100+ psi all the time. This is patently bad, IMHO. Also note that you are
adding a maintenance item to your system...

regarding maintenance of an oil cooler, with a thermostatic bypass, you need
to test the thing to make sure it's actually working, so add that to your
monthly to-do list. You also need to keep a sharp eye on the cooler and
hoses for problems. The oil flows through the system at line pressure, so a
tiny crack in the cooler itself can turn into a gusher at (usually) the
worst time. There's also the issue of purging the oil cooler during oil
changes so that you get a full, fresh charge of new oil during oil
changes... which is one of the points of doing oil changes.

c ya,
rml

________________________________________

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From: "Andrew Uprichard" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 16:45:37 -0400

I looked for weeks for a place to do the window frame and stanchions for my
latest TR3.  Finally found a place in Detroit which did the whole lot for
$275.  Thought that was a pretty good deal. Can supply details for anyone
interested.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Geo Hahn
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 3:39 PM
To: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] TR6 Repro Bumper - Quality??

Geo

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> > here in SoCal the price of chrome work has gone astronomical.
>

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From: Joe Alexander <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:20:19 -0400 (EDT)

what BOBSTA said

we are sub-3.00 minutes at Road America and dont run an oil cooler.

we did....but had to block off air to get oil temps up.

we also run a dead stock radiator and always have.

one less oil leak and one less failure opportunity.

Joe A
A. R. E.
645 1st Street
Jesup, Iowa 50648
319.464.4711  (cell)
[email-masked]

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert M. Lang <[email-masked]>
To: robert rudolphi <[email-masked]>
Cc: triumphs <[email-masked]>; 6pack <[email-masked]>
Sent: Mon, Aug 27, 2012 2:57 pm
Subject: Re: [6pack] TR6 Oil Cooler

Hi,

c ya,
rml

[email-masked]

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:49:52 -0400

> You also need to keep a sharp eye on the cooler 
> the worst time.

Ditto the lines to/from the cooler & thermostat.  Lines can rupture suddenly if they are chafing or get pulled tight under hard acceleration/cornering.  And a broken line can ruin your whole day, especially when the first symptom you notice is the clatter from the rod bearings ...

I know that's what Bob meant to say, I just wanted to emphasize the point.  Otherwise I agree entirely.

-- Randall

---

From: "Biedermann, Frank (SACE Board)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:23:34 +0930

I'll pitch in with my 2c here, after previously having an oil cooler on my
early '6. It's not on there any more - I believe mine either had a weakness in
it somewhere or developed one in the course of use and catastrophically failed
dumping all the oil from the engine in a very short period of time. Luckily,
that happened about 100m from my parents' driveway (which is where I was going
for lunch) and my folks had oil and the necessary tools and fittings to plug
the oil cooler lines at the filter adapter, so no real damage done.

In the period of time  I had it installed it did improve the idle oil
pressure, particularly in stop-go traffic in summer here when temperatures can
exceed 40 degrees Celsius. But I don't think that's enough to convince me to
ever install one again after the experience I had above...

Frank Biedermann
69 TR6 PI
Adelaide, Australia

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2012 7:20 AM
To: robert rudolphi
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [TR] [6pack] TR6 Oil Cooler

> You also need to keep a sharp eye on the cooler and hoses for
> problems. The oil flows through the system at line pressure, so a tiny
> crack in the cooler itself can turn into a gusher at (usually) the
> worst time.

Ditto the lines to/from the cooler & thermostat.  Lines can rupture suddenly
if they are chafing or get pulled tight under hard acceleration/cornering.
And a broken line can ruin your whole day, especially when the first symptom
you notice is the clatter from the rod bearings ...

I know that's what Bob meant to say, I just wanted to emphasize the point.
Otherwise I agree entirely.

-- Randall

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