Subject: [TR] tr3 starter

From: Frank Fisher <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT)

every now again when i press the starter button, the starter motor whines and spins but does not engage.
try it again and it spins, maybe one or 2 more times and it engages and starts the engine.
i think i just need to clean pinion shaft? no??
thanks

** [email-masked] **

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:43:14 -0700

> i think i just need to clean pinion shaft? no??

Could be; but if it is getting noticeably worse over time, I might suspect
that the bonded rubber drive is slipping.

Of course that is assuming you are talking about the first press of the
starter button.  If it starts to crank and then kicks out, you have to wait
for the drive to stop spinning before it will engage again.  Frustrating as
all get out in cold weather, when the engine will frequently fire but not
start.

-- Randall

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From: Frank Fisher <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:15:09 -0700 (PDT)

i am talking the first press of the button.
once the started engages the
flywheel i fire right up.
what bonded rubber drive would you be referring to?
Frank
TS41366L

________________________________
 From: Randall
<[email-masked]>
To: 'Frank Fisher' <[email-masked]>; 'Triumphs'
<[email-masked]> 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:43 PM
Subject: RE:
[TR] tr3 starter
  
> every now again when i press the starter button, the
starter motor
> whines and spins but does not engage.
> try it again and it
spins, maybe one or 2 more times and it engages and
> starts the engine.
> i
think i just need to clean pinion shaft? no??

Could be; but if it is getting
noticeably worse over time, I might suspect
that the bonded rubber drive is
slipping.

Of course that is assuming you are talking about the first press of
the
starter button.  If it starts to crank and then kicks out, you have to
wait
for the drive to stop spinning before it will engage again.  Frustrating
as
all get out in cold weather, when the engine will frequently fire but not
start.

-- Randall

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From: Geo Hahn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:48:18 -0700

#46 here<http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29170>,
or p/n 549-580<http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/SearchResults.aspx?SearchText=549-580%20&WebCatalogID=0>
.

These were NLA back in the 80s and I fixed mine by jamming strips of inner
tube between the sleeve and inner bit.  Was still working 20 years later
when I finally had the starter apart to re-wrap the fields and replaced it.

Geo

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:57:31 -0700

> what bonded rubber drive would you be referring to?

On the early (pre-TS50000) starter, there is a drive piece between the
armature and the pinion shaft.  Its construction is somewhat similar to the
silentbloc pivots in the steering, with an inner and outer steel tube and
rubber between them (which is supposed to be bonded to both of them).  The
intent I assume is to provide some cushion when the spinning pinion gear
slams into the stationary ring gear.  It seems to break rather often,
especially if your engine has been modified with bigger liners and/or higher
compression but the starter will still sometimes work due to friction
between the rubber and steel.

Item N in the attached drawing (which of course won't make it through the
list) or figure 20 on page M16 of the factory workshop manual.

The problem is (was) prevalent enough that Ken Gillanders had a run made of
"fail safe" replacements that used a paddle arrangement with urethane in
compression between the paddles.  No bonds to break, and if the urethane
broke and fell out, the paddles would still turn the engine.  But I think I
got the last two of them and Ken said he had no plans to have more made.

-- Randall 

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