Subject: [TR] Horn with a mind of its own

From: Irv Korey <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:21:24 -0500

I treated myself to a new Moto-Lita steering wheel a couple of weeks ago.
Since I installed it, the horns have
blown several times without pushing the horn button, usually when steering
to the left. This happened twice while we were
moving (pushing and steering) the car at our club tune-up clinic yesterday.
My car has air horns, and they are LOUD.

I know the horns are wired hot all of the time and that the horn button
provides the ground for the circuit. My old wheel and hub
assembly used a different horn contact design than the stock wheel and I
never experienced this.
The Moto-Lita uses the same system as the stock wheel, the spring loaded
bush that goes through the hub. I'm guessing that
the stock horn bush arrangement is more sensitive to whatever is causing
this.

Any and all thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Irv Korey
74 TR6 CF22767U
Highland Park, IL

** [email-masked] **

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From: "Joe Curry" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:33:32 -0700

Irv, that sounds sooooooo familiar.  When it happened to me on my Spit, I
found that the problem was in the turn signal wiring.  When I turned the
wheel to a certain point. The horn shorted out against the turn signal
switch.  If you have slop in the steering shaft bushings, that could provide
enough play to cause this to happen.

Good luck,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Irv Korey
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:21 AM
To: TRiumphs
Subject: [TR] Horn with a mind of its own

Irv Korey
74 TR6 CF22767U
Highland Park, IL

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 14:05:41 -0400

> ...the horns have blown several times without pushing the horn button,
> usually when steering to the left.....
I had this problem on my 73 TR6. I made a new bushing for the top of the
steering column (sorry, I didn't record the dimensions) that eliminated
'play' in all directions. It was this movement that allowed the turn
signal clip to contact the horn ring and sound the horns on hard turns. As
an added benefit, I was able to move the turn signal switch in a bit and
now the turn signals never fail to self cancel.

---

From: Jeff <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 14:06:28 -0400

> Any and all thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

When I had this problem (on an old Volkswagen Bus), it was because the 
wire going down inside the steering column had lost some insulation, and 
was grounding inside the shaft.  Perhaps adding the new w somehow 
changed the wire so that it's a problem like that now.

You could remove the horn button, and see if ti still happens.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 18:55:12 +0000 (UTC)

Back to this, one question:

>FWIW, on my engine with the inadequate liner protrusion, I found that adding
>the 20 AWG "half hard" copper wire to a stock head gasket was easy and very
>effective.  Superglue didn't occur to me, so I used ordinary 'electronic'
>grade solder and a soldering gun. 

Randall, what size gun did you use?  I've always had a hard time heating a big surface with a gun enough to solder a wire to it.  

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A
New Hampshire

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From: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 15:37:42 -0500

Hi Irv-

Yes, uncontrolled tooting can be embarrassing!  I had the same problem on my
TR4 - you may want to slightly pull the hub away from the column, that was my
problem - the motolita hub itself was touching the horn pickup, and it happens
if there is any play in the column bushings which is pretty common.  Loosen
the clamp at the firewall in the engine bay to move the inner/outer steering
column.  Just a 1/16-1/8" or so extra and you can eliminate the issue I
think.

Randy

> Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:21:24 -0500
> From: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]

> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

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From: Chris Simo <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 20:31:14 -0400

second that. I autocrossed a few years ago and the horn went off on every
left turn That was the highlight of my run - unfortunately.

On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 18:34:17 -0700

> Randall, what size gun did you use?  I've always had a hard 
> time heating a big surface with a gun enough to solder a wire to it.  

I believe it was rated at 140 or 150 watts.  Unfortunately, it seems I've
managed to lose it after all these years, so I bought a new one the other
day (only gun they had, rated 200 watts).

But the copper face of the stock gasket is pretty thin, and you only need to
get a small area hot enough to melt solder.  It didn't seem to be a problem
at all.

Clean the surface thoroughly first, of course.  I used Tarn-X this time,
which seems to work fine.  Last time, I scrubbed with a Scotch-Brite pad and
then smeared the area with soldering flux; which also worked fine.

Here's a photo:
http://goo.gl/WRV2C

I'll mention these items just because someone else said they didn't know:

1) The tip of the gun should be in good condition, with large flat area to
contact the head gasket and a clean bright layer of solder (aka tinning).
If it is pitted or blackened, dress it back to shape with a file and then
re-tin with solder.  Mine tend to erode into a U-shape over time that
doesn't transfer heat well.  If there isn't enough metal left to dress to
shape, buy a new tip (they're only a few dollars).

2) Avoid lead-free solder if you can.  It's much harder to work with, IMO.
Rosin-core "eutectic" (aka 63/37) is the hot setup (though it's more
expensive than solid core plumbing solder).  Kester is my favorite brand,
but Alpha is good, too.

3) Weller guns (only kind I know) have a pair of nuts or setscrews that hold
the tip to the gun.  It's worthwhile to occasionally loosen and retighten
those, as the copper tip tends to develop a layer of corrosion that will
impede current flow (and hence reduce heat).

-- Randall

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 11:28:14 +0000 (UTC)

When reassembling the engine, I seem to have put the number 2 liner in the #1 engine slot, and #2 into #1.  I hate to take it apart because I'm afraid I'll bugger up the figure 8 gaskets.

So...new bearings, new rings, honed liners,ground crankshfat...just how critical is it that these go in the same holes?  Isn't it the same as if I were buying new liners?

Terry Smith, '59 TR3A  TS 58667
New Hampshire

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From: "G.D. Huggins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:18:48 -0500

Terry,

The pistons/liners do not come as a strict pairing (unlike the piston and dome
for SU carbs), therefore I do not believe it matters.
Best of luck on your rebuild.  I did my own as well, and so far no major
issues.

On May 7, 2012, at 6:28 AM, [email-masked] wrote:

> When reassembling the engine, I seem to have put the number 2 liner in the
#1 engine slot, and #2 into #1.  I hate to take it apart because I'm afraid
I'll bugger up the figure 8 gaskets.
>
> So...new bearings, new rings, honed liners,ground crankshfat...just how
critical is it that these go in the same holes?  Isn't it the same as if I
were buying new liners?
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/[email-masked]

---

From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:35:29 -0700

> critical is it that these go in the same holes?  Isn't it the same as
> if I were buying new liners?

Not exactly the same, since the piston and liner will have worn somewhat
together.  But I wouldn't worry about it.

-- Randall

---

From: "Greg Lemon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:54:29 -0500

As the others have said, should work, as I recall from a 4 cylinder 
rebuild many years ago, the liners are supposed to sit ever so slightly 
proud of the block, the manuals have the specs, should check to make sure 
they are within spec there, shouldn't matter but slight variations in the 
liners or block could make a difference.

Greg Lemon
68 TR250

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:51:11 -0700

> liners or block could make a difference.

Yes, indeed!  Liner protrusion is quite important.  

Be sure to check on both sides.  I have found two TR3 engines in a row now,
where the liner height was not even on both sides.  Both had a definite
tendency towards head gasket leaks.

-- Randall

---

From: Irv Korey <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 22:35:07 -0500

Thanks for all of the suggestions on how to correct the random blasts from
my horns. I appreciate the help.

Irv Korey
74 TR6 CF22767U
Highland Park, IL

On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Irv Korey <[email-masked]> wrote:

> moving (pushing and steering) the car at our club tune-up clinic
> yesterday. My car has air horns, and they are LOUD.
>