Subject: [TR] Broken rear stud for rocker arm assembly

From: Chris Simo <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 09:28:25 -0400

Hi list.
Took the tr4 out for a drive and about five miles out I heard a bit of
noise I thought might be associated with the transmission. Took it straight
home and parked it.

Few days later the trans level was a bit low so I used my new red harbor
freight oil can pump to fill it. After about 8 pumps I saw the hose fly off
and right down the transmission hole... a few hours later I managed to
extract it from the drain hole.... so I start the car and the noise seems
worse and I hear something like a backfire on throttle blip.   Timing,
nope. Pulled valve cover and saw rear stud nut was gone. Found nut and
washer and stud had snapped at the nut. I used a torque wrench when I
assembled so I don't know why it failed.

I stole a stud from the tr2 and reassembled and adjusted the valves.

No more backfiring, but a lot of racket.

As the rear pedestal is vital to the oil feed I imagine that it starved the
rocker arm of oil and the assy is toast.

Do you think I did additional damage to the head?

Thanks Chris

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From: "Randall" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 08:41:06 -0700

> Do you think I did additional damage to the head?

My guess is that something else is going on, not just lack of oil.  One of
my former TR3s had the oil passage to the head totally blocked (likely due
to improper cam bearing installation but I never tore it down to find out).
It was driven probably 10,000 miles that way (the pushrods were rusty!), and
while the wear was fairly severe, it was still running well enough when I
finally discovered the problem.

Unless you don't care what happens, I'd suggest pulling the head for
inspection.  I think you're going to find some foreign object in the
combustion chamber, that blocked a valve from opening and caused the stud to
snap.

Or you could try out one of the new bore scopes from HF.

-- Randall

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From: Chris Simo <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 21:46:29 -0400

OK. Here's an update. I'm gonna share the whole experience.  Gonna regret
it later. Motor is making bad noises.

That being said, I'm not at solution stage yet. But I'm having fun getting
there.

So I said I had a bad noise.

Since then I've found a few issues (sheepishly...)

I thought i needed to add fluif to the transmission and had the hose blow
into the transmission.  Got past that.

I then saw that one of the manifold to headpipe nuts had backed off.  Took
care of that.

I pulled the Rocker assy and it seemed OK. Compression check was good
(155,162,167,165).

I then found the belt seemed loose. On the way to tighten it, i pondered
why it would be loose and shortly saw the water pump nut had sheared
off.... and also destroyed the water pump pulley.... I greased up the old
tr2 pump (love the grease fitting) and put it on (surprised at how freely
it turns).  I  The pulley is messed up and I'll need to go to my stash and
pull one. I've put the messed up one on it on there in the meantime.

So why did the rocker arm stud shear off? I went back to the rocker shaft
and it seemed in good shape and no noticible play. I did see one push rod
at number 4 that appeared to wobble when I rotated it.

That's when I really screwed up. I pulled the push rod and could tell the
lifter was stuck to it. I shook and wiggled and felt it had dropped back
into it's hole. Nope. It decided to lay sideways.... there is alot of room
for unrestrained lifters to flop about in a tractor engine.  Took an hour
and three beers to get it back in the hole. (Not going there ) buttoned
back up and the noise is still there.

I then pulled the head and all looks good.  Now i'm kicking myself for not
taking the belt off to eliminate the water pump and alternator first.....

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From: Chris Simo <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:11:28 -0400

Ok - recap of last update - had a nut broken off the water pump pulley; a
loose downpipe/manifold connection; broken rocker stud;  and created some
self-induced challenges along the way.  Swapped out  with an old water pump
and still had metallic noises from engine.  I'm glad I pulled the head as I
was afraid something inside number 4 had caused the stud to break.

I tried to do some root cause analysis before I reassembled - so I cleaned
everything and really gave things a good study.

1.  Rocker stud washers have become a bit domed and are in general a bit
rough - I bought new ones from one of the big three when I rebuilt the
engine and apparently got unhardened washers. - They are reasonably thicker
than standard washers but  deformed nonetheless.  So my best theory here is
they deformed, reduced the torque on the nuts to zero or less and then the
valve train hammered away on the stud until it failed. - Rocker arms do not
seem to have any noticeable wear - so I'm leaving them as is.
2. Exhaust manifold to headpipe - No idea - the nut was down about 1/4 inch
- but not easy to loosen or tighten - maybe I missed tightening this
one.....
3. Water pump nut - I feel this is my bad - I felt the pump pulley was a
bit too easy to slide on the shaft a few months ago and even got the
locktite product that Randall uses to fill in the gaps - but did not get
around to putting it on.... so I deserve this one - Bad thing is - it took
out the pump and the pulley. Much more expensive than the locktite bearing
product.  My spare used water pump felt good in my hand and I greased it up
- but in removing the belt - I see that it has some play in the bearings
and that is likely the reason for the  continued racket in the engine;  The
noise from the free pulley bouncing around water pump one - and the noise
from worn bearings in water pump two are quite similar.
4. I reused my payen head gasket - not sure how long I'll leave it on - but
wanted to move along with my troubleshooting - I sprayed both sides with a
couple coats of the copper spray - some folks swear by it others think it's
trouble - I've used it in the past.  I've reused head gaskets twice before
due to financial constraints -   once on the TR2 -  back in 1976 - it's the
one that is still on it.  and once on the TR4 - it was retired after
several thousand miles when I rebuilt the engine.  Since I'm not strapped
for cash at this time - I plan to pull the head and do it right and figure
that with 2 behind me my luck has run out.

Head is back on and everything is buttoned up.  Left the water pump on the
car - but disconnected the belt.  Filled the radiator and used the hose to
force water through the head as I was going to start it without the belt on
to see if noise was gone.   Started right up - no noise - shut down.

Lessons relearned - go back and check those fasteners after the engine is
broken in; Don't run a water pump without a good fit between shaft and
pulley; Don't use an unrestrained hose when adding fluif to the
transmission - or rear.

Now I'm waiting for my parts.  Thanks for those that replied with advice
and encouragement.

Chris

54 TR2 - getting a new wiring harness this weekend
63 TR4 - Soon to be daily driver again
69 TR6 - needing welding and attention