Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:44:52 -0800

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Wow.  That is really scary. Thanks for the warning.

I see what you are saying about the castle nuts.  However, I have to say,
in all the years I've taken off ball joints or tie rods, I've never ever
had one just slide off, and they always needed a tool and a lot of force.
So I'm wondering if something else happened there.

On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:

> So,  I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just
> about home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front
> suspension dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before
> stopping.  All I could think of was the old stories about exploding ball
> joints.
>
> I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my
> truck and drove back to the Tiger.  I managed to get the front end jacked
> up and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the
> lower A arm had dropped to the road.  My suspension pieces are at least 3=
0
> years old and the ball joints were held on with nylock nuts. I managed to
> wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to
> slowly drive the car into my garage.
>
> I am very lucky that:
> 1. I was going pretty slow at the time
> 2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the road
> 3. None of the body work was damaged
> 4.  And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped =
up
>
> If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a
> winding road and I would have wound up in a ditch.
>
> So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for
> castle nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose
> again.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Brown
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Wow.=C2=A0 That is really scary. Thanks for the warning. =
=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I see what you are saying about the castle nuts.=
=C2=A0 However, I have to say, in all the years I&#39;ve taken off ball joi=
nts or tie rods, I&#39;ve never ever had one just slide off, and they alway=
s needed a tool and a lot of force.=C2=A0 So I&#39;m wondering if something=
 else happened there. =C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail=
_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 8, 2025=
 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-st=
yle:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">So,=C2=A0 I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was=
 just about home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front s=
uspension=C2=A0dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before sto=
pping.=C2=A0 All I could think of was the old stories about exploding ball =
joints.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I walked to my house and threw a floor jac=
k and some jack stands in my truck and drove back to the Tiger.=C2=A0 I man=
aged to get the front end jacked up and discovered that the nut on the lowe=
r ball joint was gone and the lower A arm had dropped to the road.=C2=A0 My=
 suspension pieces are at least 30 years old and the ball joints were=C2=A0=
held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the uppe=
r and lower A arms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my garage.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I am very lucky that:=C2=A0</div><div>1. I =
was going pretty slow at the time</div><div>2. The front end landed in some=
 loose gravel on the side of the road</div><div>3. None of the body work wa=
s damaged</div><div>4.=C2=A0 And nothing else in the suspension looks to be=
 damaged; just scraped up</div><div><br></div><div>If this had happened 5 m=
inutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road and I would hav=
e wound up in a ditch.</div><div><br></div><div>So I&#39;m ordering a new s=
et of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle nuts so I don&#39;t =
have to worry about a nut working its way loose again.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Joe Brown</div><div><br></div><div><br>=
</div></div>
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From: Joe Brown <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:08:36 -0600

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I was also wondering about how it came loose.  We have a bunch of rough
roads around here and I have to cross over several cattle guards. I wonder
if the nut came loose and then hitting pot holes and cattle guards knocked
the pin loose. I hope and pray that the hole in the knuckle hasn't been
worn out a little bit. I'll have to see how the new ball joints fit.  I'll
keep everybody posted.

Thanks,
Joe Brown

On Sat, Mar 8, 2025, 9:45=E2=80=AFPM Jay Laifman <[email-masked]> wr=
ote:

> On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>> truck and drove back to the Tiger.  I managed to get the front end jacke=
d
>> lower A arm had dropped to the road.  My suspension pieces are at least =
30
>> years old and the ball joints were held on with nylock nuts. I managed t=
o
>> 4.  And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped
>> up
>>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I was also wondering about how it came loose.=C2=A0 We ha=
ve a bunch of rough roads around here and I have to cross over several catt=
le guards. I wonder if the nut came loose and then hitting pot holes and ca=
ttle guards knocked the pin loose. I hope and pray that the hole in the knu=
ckle hasn&#39;t been worn out a little bit. I&#39;ll have to see how the ne=
w ball joints fit.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll keep everybody posted.<div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks,</div><div dir=3D"auto">Joe Brown=C2=A0</=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 8, 2025, 9:45=E2=80=AFPM Jay Laifman =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Wow.=C2=A0 =
That is really scary. Thanks for the warning. =C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I s=
ee what you are saying about the castle nuts.=C2=A0 However, I have to say,=
 in all the years I&#39;ve taken off ball joints or tie rods, I&#39;ve neve=
r ever had one just slide off, and they always needed a tool and a lot of f=
orce.=C2=A0 So I&#39;m wondering if something else happened there. =C2=A0</=
div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">jbbrown1980@gma=
il.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;borde=
r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">So,=C2=A0 =
I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just about hom=
e (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front suspension=C2=A0=
dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before stopping.=C2=A0 Al=
l I could think of was the old stories about exploding ball joints.=C2=A0<d=
iv><br></div><div>I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack=
 stands in my truck and drove back to the Tiger.=C2=A0 I managed to get the=
 front end jacked up and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint wa=
s gone and the lower A arm had dropped to the road.=C2=A0 My suspension pie=
ces are at least 30 years old and the ball joints were=C2=A0held on with ny=
lock nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A a=
rms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my garage.=C2=A0</div><div>=
<br></div><div>I am very lucky that:=C2=A0</div><div>1. I was going pretty =
slow at the time</div><div>2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on =
the side of the road</div><div>3. None of the body work was damaged</div><d=
iv>4.=C2=A0 And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just sc=
raped up</div><div><br></div><div>If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I =
would have been doing 60 on a winding road and I would have wound up in a d=
itch.</div><div><br></div><div>So I&#39;m ordering a new set of ball joints=
 and I will drill them out for castle nuts so I don&#39;t have to worry abo=
ut a nut working its way loose again.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
Regards,</div><div>Joe Brown</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: "Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 11:13:38 -0400

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

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Joe

Glad no one was hurt by this incident.

Seems strange that a NyLock nut came loose but without that nut the full we=
ight of the car and the spring force are pushing the ball joint out of the =
knuckle.

Do a complete inspection of the knuckle =E2=80=93 safety first and always.

Maintenance schedule =E2=80=93 less driven vehicles really need increased m=
aintenance schedules.

When the weather warms up more here I will do a safety check for all the li=
ghts and complete front end check with brakes checked =E2=80=93 this is my =
normal maintenance routine before driving the Tiger every year.

Last summer I did an even more comprehensive check on the Tiger and found n=
umerous little problems =E2=80=93 torn ball joint boots, air in the brake l=
ines, rear brakes needed adjustment, Panhard bolt very loose =E2=80=93 good=
 thing it was a long bolt or it would be lost to the highway gremlins forev=
er plus a small fuel leak.

These days with the fuel; everyone should routinely inspect the condition o=
f any fuel hose =E2=80=93 if cracked, replace.

 Ron Fraser

 

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Joe Brown
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2025 11:09 PM
To: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

I was also wondering about how it came loose.  We have a bunch of rough roa=
ds around here and I have to cross over several cattle guards. I wonder if =
the nut came loose and then hitting pot holes and cattle guards knocked the=
 pin loose. I hope and pray that the hole in the knuckle hasn't been worn o=
ut a little bit. I'll have to see how the new ball joints fit.  I'll keep e=
verybody posted.

Thanks,

Joe Brown 

On Sat, Mar 8, 2025, 9:45=E2=80=AFPM Jay Laifman <[email-masked] <ma=
ilto:[email-masked]> > wrote:

I see what you are saying about the castle nuts.  However, I have to say, i=
n all the years I've taken off ball joints or tie rods, I've never ever had=
 one just slide off, and they always needed a tool and a lot of force.  So =
I'm wondering if something else happened there.  

On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown <[email-masked] <ma=
ilto:[email-masked]> > wrote:

So,  I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just abou=
t home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front suspension =
dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before stopping.  All I c=
ould think of was the old stories about exploding ball joints. 

I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truc=
k and drove back to the Tiger.  I managed to get the front end jacked up an=
d discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A =
arm had dropped to the road.  My suspension pieces are at least 30 years ol=
d and the ball joints were held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ra=
tchet strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to slowly driv=
e the car into my garage. 

I am very lucky that: 

4.  And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped up=

If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a wind=
ing road and I would have wound up in a ditch.

So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for cast=
le nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose again.  =

Regards,

Joe Brown

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive=

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail=
=2Ecom

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Joe<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Glad no one was hurt by this incident.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Seems stran=
ge that a NyLock nut came loose but without that nut the full weight of the=
 car and the spring force are pushing the ball joint out of the knuckle.<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
Do a complete inspection of the knuckle =E2=80=93 safety first and always.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l>Maintenance schedule =E2=80=93 less driven vehicles really need increased=
 maintenance schedules.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>When the weather warms up more here I will do a s=
afety check for all the lights and complete front end check with brakes che=
cked =E2=80=93 this is my normal maintenance routine before driving the Tig=
er every year.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'>Last summer I did an even more =
comprehensive check on the Tiger and found numerous little problems =E2=80=
=93 torn ball joint boots, air in the brake lines, rear brakes needed adjus=
tment, Panhard bolt very loose =E2=80=93 good thing it was a long bolt or i=
t would be lost to the highway gremlins forever plus a small fuel leak.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>T=
hese days with the fuel; everyone should routinely inspect the condition of=
 any fuel hose =E2=80=93 if cracked, replace.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=C2=A0Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><b>From:</b> Tigers &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf=
 Of </b>Joe Brown<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 08, 2025 11:09 PM<br><b>T=
o:</b> Jay Laifman &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> tigers@autox=
=2Eteam.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I was al=
so wondering about how it came loose.&nbsp; We have a bunch of rough roads =
around here and I have to cross over several cattle guards. I wonder if the=
 nut came loose and then hitting pot holes and cattle guards knocked the pi=
n loose. I hope and pray that the hole in the knuckle hasn't been worn out =
a little bit. I'll have to see how the new ball joints fit.&nbsp; I'll keep=
 everybody posted.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal>Joe Brown&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sat, Mar 8, 2025=
, 9:45=E2=80=AFPM Jay Laifman &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=
=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;m=
argin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Wow.&nbsp; Tha=
t is really scary. Thanks for the warning. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I see w=
hat you are saying about the castle nuts.&nbsp; However, I have to say, in =
all the years I've taken off ball joints or tie rods, I've never ever had o=
ne just slide off, and they always needed a tool and a lot of force.&nbsp; =
So I'm wondering if something else happened there. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></d=
iv></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal>On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:soli=
d #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0i=
n'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>So,&nbsp; I took my Tiger out yesterday for a =
short drive and as I was just about home (maybe a hundred yards from my dri=
veway) the right front suspension&nbsp;dropped to the ground and I skidded =
several yards before stopping.&nbsp; All I could think of was the old stori=
es about exploding ball joints.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I walked to my hous=
e and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and drove back to=
 the Tiger.&nbsp; I managed to get the front end jacked up and discovered t=
hat the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A arm had droppe=
d to the road.&nbsp; My suspension pieces are at least 30 years old and the=
 ball joints were&nbsp;held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ratche=
t strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to slowly drive th=
e car into my garage.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I am very lucky that:&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>1. I was going pretty sl=
ow at the time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>2. The front e=
nd landed in some loose gravel on the side of the road<o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal>3. None of the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>4.&nbsp; And nothing else in the suspensi=
on looks to be damaged; just scraped up<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>If this h=
ad happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road =
and I would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>So I'm orderi=
ng a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle nuts so I =
don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose again.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l>Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_____________________________=
__________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 14:27:08 -0400

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Jerry

That is an excellent idea.   A witness mark will give a fast visual if a nu=
t or bolt has moved.

Ron Fraser

From: Jerry Christopherson <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2025 11:40 AM
To: Ron Fraser <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

Something that works very well is a "witness mark" on bolts or nuts. A smal=
l white line (finger nail polish) on the side of a nut down to the base met=
al. Very easy to take a quick look to see if any movement has occured. Jerr=
y   

On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 10:21=E2=80=AFAM Ron Fraser <[email-masked] <m=
ailto:[email-masked]> > wrote:

Joe

 Ron Fraser

 

am.net> > On Behalf Of Joe Brown
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2025 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

Thanks,

Joe Brown 

I am very lucky that: 

 

 

Regards,

Joe Brown

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jerry<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>That is an =
excellent idea.=C2=A0=C2=A0 A witness mark will give a fast visual if a =
nut or bolt has moved.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Jerry Christopherson =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 09, =
2025 11:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Ron Fraser =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your =
Nuts<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Something that works very well is a &quot;witness =
mark&quot; on bolts or nuts. A small white line (finger nail polish) on =
the side of a nut down to the base metal. Very easy to take a quick look =
to see if any movement has occured. Jerry&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 10:21=E2=80=AFAM Ron Fraser &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Glad no one =
was hurt by this incident.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Seems =
strange that a NyLock nut came loose but without that nut the full =
weight of the car and the spring force are pushing the ball joint out of =
the knuckle.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Do a =
complete inspection of the knuckle =E2=80=93 safety first and =
always.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Maintenance =
schedule =E2=80=93 less driven vehicles really need increased =
maintenance schedules.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When the =
weather warms up more here I will do a safety check for all the lights =
and complete front end check with brakes checked =E2=80=93 this is my =
normal maintenance routine before driving the Tiger every =
year.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-indent:.=
5in'>Last summer I did an even more comprehensive check on the Tiger and =
found numerous little problems =E2=80=93 torn ball joint boots, air in =
the brake lines, rear brakes needed adjustment, Panhard bolt very loose =
=E2=80=93 good thing it was a long bolt or it would be lost to the =
highway gremlins forever plus a small fuel leak.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>These days =
with the fuel; everyone should routinely inspect the condition of any =
fuel hose =E2=80=93 if cracked, replace.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
 Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Joe Brown<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 08, 2025 11:09 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Jay Laifman &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I was also =
wondering about how it came loose.&nbsp; We have a bunch of rough roads =
around here and I have to cross over several cattle guards. I wonder if =
the nut came loose and then hitting pot holes and cattle guards knocked =
the pin loose. I hope and pray that the hole in the knuckle hasn't been =
worn out a little bit. I'll have to see how the new ball joints =
fit.&nbsp; I'll keep everybody posted.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe =
Brown&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar =
8, 2025, 9:45=E2=80=AFPM Jay Laifman &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Wow.&nbsp; =
That is really scary. Thanks for the warning. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I see what =
you are saying about the castle nuts.&nbsp; However, I have to say, in =
all the years I've taken off ball joints or tie rods, I've never ever =
had one just slide off, and they always needed a tool and a lot of =
force.&nbsp; So I'm wondering if something else happened there. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar =
8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So,&nbsp; I =
took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just about =
home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front =
suspension&nbsp;dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before =
stopping.&nbsp; All I could think of was the old stories about exploding =
ball joints.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I walked to =
my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and =
drove back to the Tiger.&nbsp; I managed to get the front end jacked up =
and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the =
lower A arm had dropped to the road.&nbsp; My suspension pieces are at =
least 30 years old and the ball joints were&nbsp;held on with nylock =
nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A =
arms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my =
garage.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am very =
lucky that:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1. I was =
going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2. The =
front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the =
road<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3. None of =
the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>4.&nbsp; =
And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped =
up<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If this had =
happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road =
and I would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So I'm =
ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle =
nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose =
again.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p=
></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Joe =
Brown<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________=
_____________________________<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: =
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[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Tom Hall via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 19:31:56 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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It's hard to believe that this is still happening.  It started when Rick 
at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties.  
The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this 
new supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially 
accepted.  My daughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered 
Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you 
were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at 
low speed.

Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after it 
happened.  Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted this this had 
never happened before and it must have been _My fault_. Rick and I 
talked at length and they told us that they were not going to modify 
their product. Rick however changed his receiveal methods so that the 
Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in 
his lower ball joint stock from that time until the current time.  This 
supplier made an acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper 
plating of the genuine OEM supplier.  What happened is that during 
storage after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the 
rust process.  With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time 
before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and 
unscrew it from the taper cone.

Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've 
never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.  
Different loading's, different results.

>         On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 2:19 PM Joe Brown
>         <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>             So,  I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and
>             as I was just about home (maybe a hundred yards from my
>             driveway) the right front suspension dropped to the ground
>             and I skidded several yards before stopping. All I could
>             think of was the old stories about exploding ball joints.
>
>             I walked to my house and threw a floor jack and some jack
>             stands in my truck and drove back to the Tiger.  I managed
>             to get the front end jacked up and discovered that the nut
>             on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A arm had
>             dropped to the road.  My suspension pieces are at least 30
>             years old and the ball joints were held on with nylock
>             nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper
>             and lower A arms and I was able to slowly drive the car
>             into my garage.
>
>             I am very lucky that:
>
>             4.  And nothing else in the suspension looks to be
>             damaged; just scraped up
>
>             If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been
>             doing 60 on a winding road and I would have wound up in a
>             ditch.
>
>             So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill
>             them out for castle nuts so I don't have to worry about a
>             nut working its way loose again.
>
>             Regards,
>
>             Joe Brown
>
>     Image removed by sender.
>     <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
>     	
>
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>

-- 
Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
5712 San Luis Court
Pleasanton, CA 94566
(925)462-3876
[email-masked]
http://tigerengineering.net/ 

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  <body>
    <p>It's hard to believe that this is still happening.  It started
      when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
      mid-eighties.  The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and
      cotter keys, but this new supplier went with the Nylock nut
      design. which Rick initially accepted.  My daughter had this
      "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80's,
      a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having the
      lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.</p>
    <p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after
      it happened.  Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted this
      this had never happened before and it must have been <u>My fault</u>. 
      Rick and I talked at length and they told us that they were not
      going to modify their product. Rick however changed his receiveal
      methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and
      drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from
      that time until the current time.  This supplier made an
      acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of
      the genuine OEM supplier.  What happened is that during storage
      after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the
      rust process.  With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of
      time before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock
      nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut
      but I've never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction
      un-screw mechanism.  Different loading's, different results.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div>
          <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Mar
                            8, 2025 at 2:19 PM Joe Brown &lt;<a
                              href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So,  I took
                              my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive
                              and as I was just about home (maybe a
                              hundred yards from my driveway) the right
                              front suspension dropped to the ground and
                              I skidded several yards before stopping. 
                              All I could think of was the old stories
                              about exploding ball joints. <o:p></o:p></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I walked to
                                my house and threw a floor jack and some
                                jack stands in my truck and drove back
                                to the Tiger.  I managed to get the
                                front end jacked up and discovered that
                                the nut on the lower ball joint was gone
                                and the lower A arm had dropped to the
                                road.  My suspension pieces are at least
                                30 years old and the ball joints
                                were held on with nylock nuts. I managed
                                to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper
                                and lower A arms and I was able to
                                slowly drive the car into my garage. <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am very
                                lucky that: <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. I was
                                going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. The front
                                end landed in some loose gravel on the
                                side of the road<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. None of
                                the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4.  And
                                nothing else in the suspension looks to
                                be damaged; just scraped up<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If this had
                                happened 5 minutes earlier I would have
                                been doing 60 on a winding road and I
                                would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So I'm
                                ordering a new set of ball joints and I
                                will drill them out for castle nuts so I
                                don't have to worry about a nut working
                                its way loose again.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                            <br>
                            <a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
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                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <div
id="m_899710309926904DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
5712 San Luis Court
Pleasanton, CA 94566
(925)462-3876
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tigerengineering.net/">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> </pre>
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[email-masked]

--===============1739959128875004638==--

---

From: Joe Brown <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 00:01:08 -0500

--00000000000000a7a1062ff5dd36

--00000000000000a7a0062ff5dd35

--00000000000000a79e062ff5dd34
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the explanation.  I was worried that maybe I had done something
wrong when I installed them. I've got an order in for some new ones along
with some tie rod ends and I look forward to getting back on the road.

Thanks,
Joe Brown

On Sun, Mar 9, 2025, 9:47=E2=80=AFPM Tom Hall via Tigers <[email-masked]=
.net>
wrote:

> at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties.  T=
he
> OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new
> supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted.
> My daughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back
> in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having th=
e
> lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.
>
> never happened before and it must have been *My fault*.  Rick and I
> talked at length and they told us that they were not going to modify thei=
r
> product. Rick however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut
> was tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower
> ball joint stock from that time until the current time.  This supplier ma=
de
> an acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the
> genuine OEM supplier.  What happened is that during storage after
> manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the rust process.
> With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time before the frictio=
n
> in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper
> cone.
>
0
up
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> Tom Hall
> ModTiger Engineering LLC5712 San Luis Court
> Pleasanton, CA 94566 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/5712+San+Luis+Co=
urt%0D%0APleasanton,+CA+94566?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> (925)[email-masked]://tigerengineering.net/
>
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
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--00000000000000a79e062ff5dd34
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Tom,=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Thanks for the explanation.=C2=A0 I was worried that maybe I had done som=
ething wrong when I installed them. I&#39;ve got an order in for some new o=
nes along with some tie rod ends and I look forward to getting back on the =
road.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks,=C2=
=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">Joe Brown=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Su=
n, Mar 9, 2025, 9:47=E2=80=AFPM Tom Hall via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
    <p>It&#39;s hard to believe that this is still happening.=C2=A0 It star=
ted
      when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
      mid-eighties.=C2=A0 The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and
      cotter keys, but this new supplier went with the Nylock nut
      design. which Rick initially accepted.=C2=A0 My daughter had this
      &quot;accident&quot; happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the=
 80&#39;s,
      a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having the
      lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.</p>
    <p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after
      it happened.=C2=A0 Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted th=
is
      this had never happened before and it must have been <u>My fault</u>.=
=C2=A0
      Rick and I talked at length and they told us that they were not
      going to modify their product. Rick however changed his receiveal
      methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and
      drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from
      that time until the current time.=C2=A0 This supplier made an
      acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of
      the genuine OEM supplier.=C2=A0 What happened is that during storage
      after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the
      rust process.=C2=A0 With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of
      time before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock
      nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut
      but I&#39;ve never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction
      un-screw mechanism.=C2=A0 Different loading&#39;s, different results.=
<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div>
        <div>
          <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;=
padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #ccc=
ccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;marg=
in-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar
                            8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">jbb=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                            wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid =
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;=
margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class=3D"MsoNormal">So,=C2=A0 I took
                              my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive
                              and as I was just about home (maybe a
                              hundred yards from my driveway) the right
                              front suspension=C2=A0dropped to the ground a=
nd
                              I skidded several yards before stopping.=C2=
=A0
                              All I could think of was the old stories
                              about exploding ball joints.=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I walked to
                                my house and threw a floor jack and some
                                jack stands in my truck and drove back
                                to the Tiger.=C2=A0 I managed to get the
                                front end jacked up and discovered that
                                the nut on the lower ball joint was gone
                                and the lower A arm had dropped to the
                                road.=C2=A0 My suspension pieces are at lea=
st
                                30 years old and the ball joints
                                were=C2=A0held on with nylock nuts. I manag=
ed
                                to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper
                                and lower A arms and I was able to
                                slowly drive the car into my garage.=C2=A0<=
u></u><u></u></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am very
                                lucky that:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. I was
                                going pretty slow at the time<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">2. The front
                                end landed in some loose gravel on the
                                side of the road<u></u><u></u></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">3. None of
                                the body work was damaged<u></u><u></u></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.=C2=A0 And
                                nothing else in the suspension looks to
                                be damaged; just scraped up<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">If this had
                                happened 5 minutes earlier I would have
                                been doing 60 on a winding road and I
                                would have wound up in a ditch.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I&#39;m
                                ordering a new set of ball joints and I
                                will drill them out for castle nuts so I
                                don&#39;t have to worry about a nut working
                                its way loose again.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joe Brown<u></u><u></u=
></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.=
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      <pre>_______________________________________________

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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre cols=3D"72">--=20
Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/5712+San+Luis+Court%0D%0APlea=
santon,+CA+94566?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">5712 San Luis Court
Pleasanton, CA 94566</a>
(925)462-3876
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer=
">[email-masked]</a>
<a href=3D"http://tigerengineering.net/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferre=
r">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> </pre>
  </div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferre=
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<br>
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</blockquote></div>

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[email-masked]

--00000000000000a7a1062ff5dd36--

---

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 22:45:12 -0700

--===============1577956728804662782==
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--Apple-Mail-91509064-A6B3-4430-B36B-FC911CB53D1B
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I r=
emember a light blue Mazda Alpine. &nbsp;What ever happened to it? &nbsp;</d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I am not sure I understand ho=
w friction in the ball causes the taper to come lose. &nbsp;But regardless, I=
 think it is pretty likely my lower ball joints were sourced from Rick about=
 1994, and it is nyloc only. &nbsp;Are you suggesting they are all an accide=
nt away? &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mar 9=
, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers &lt;[email-masked]&gt=
; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr=
">=EF=BB=BF

 =20
    <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8"=
 =20
 =20
    <p>It's hard to believe that this is still happening.&nbsp; It started
      when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
      mid-eighties.&nbsp; The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and
      cotter keys, but this new supplier went with the Nylock nut
      design. which Rick initially accepted.&nbsp; My daughter had this
      "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80's,
      a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having the
      lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.</p>
    <p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after
      it happened.&nbsp; Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted thi=
s
      this had never happened before and it must have been <u>My fault</u>.&=
nbsp;
      Rick and I talked at length and they told us that they were not
      going to modify their product. Rick however changed his receiveal
      methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and
      drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from
      that time until the current time.&nbsp; This supplier made an
      acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of
      the genuine OEM supplier.&nbsp; What happened is that during storage
      after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the
      rust process.&nbsp; With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of
      time before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock
      nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut
      but I've never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction
      un-screw mechanism.&nbsp; Different loading's, different results.<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:001601db9120$df9f4660$9eddd320$@bl=
uefrog.com">
      <div class=3D"WordSection1">
        <div>
          <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCC=
CC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin=
-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:aut=
o;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt=
:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Mar
                            8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" moz-do-not-send=3D"true"=
 class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #=
CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;ma=
rgin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So,&nbsp; I took
                              my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive
                              and as I was just about home (maybe a
                              hundred yards from my driveway) the right
                              front suspension&nbsp;dropped to the ground an=
d
                              I skidded several yards before stopping.&nbsp;=

                              All I could think of was the old stories
                              about exploding ball joints.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I walked to
                                my house and threw a floor jack and some
                                jack stands in my truck and drove back
                                to the Tiger.&nbsp; I managed to get the
                                front end jacked up and discovered that
                                the nut on the lower ball joint was gone
                                and the lower A arm had dropped to the
                                road.&nbsp; My suspension pieces are at leas=
t
                                30 years old and the ball joints
                                were&nbsp;held on with nylock nuts. I manage=
d
                                to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper
                                and lower A arms and I was able to
                                slowly drive the car into my garage.&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am very
                                lucky that:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. I was
                                going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p>=

                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. The front
                                end landed in some loose gravel on the
                                side of the road<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. None of
                                the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4.&nbsp; And
                                nothing else in the suspension looks to
                                be damaged; just scraped up<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If this had
                                happened 5 minutes earlier I would have
                                been doing 60 on a winding road and I
                                would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So I'm
                                ordering a new set of ball joints and I
                                will drill them out for castle nuts so I
                                don't have to worry about a nut working
                                its way loose again.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top=
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                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt=
:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<=
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      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">_______________________________=
________________

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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
Tom Hall
ModTiger Engineering LLC
5712 San Luis Court
Pleasanton, CA 94566
(925)462-3876
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">m=
[email-masked]</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://tigerengineering.net/">htt=
p://tigerengineering.net/</a> </pre>
 =20
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span></span=
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[email-masked]

--===============1577956728804662782==--

---

From: "Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:37:07 -0400

--===============6757255723602180252==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jay

As the saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff Happens=E2=80=9D.

Nylock nuts are generally fine.   I would say anyone with Nylock nuts shoul=
d put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety check.   Seems to me =
I have some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them and put a wi=
tness mark on them.

As with any product some are junk.   I remember installing a Nylock nut and=
 as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out.   I threw those Nylock=
s away.

Your situation is most likely OK.   I would check the torque on the nuts an=
d put a witness mark on them.

I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because we general=
ly think in terms of static conditions.   Vehicles are on the move, vibrati=
ons can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.   I=E2=80=99m sure there are othe=
r dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond my grade level.

Ron Fraser

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Jay Laifman
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine.  What ever happened to it?  

I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to com=
e lose.  But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball joints w=
ere sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.  Are you suggesting=
 they are all an accident away?  

On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers <[email-masked].=

=EF=BB=BF 

It's hard to believe that this is still happening.  It started when Rick at=
 Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties.  The O=
EM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new supp=
lier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted.  My da=
ughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the=
 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having the lower =
A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.

Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly after it happen=
ed.  Rick and I sat down with them and they insisted this this had never ha=
ppened before and it must have been My fault.  Rick and I talked at length =
and they told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick how=
ever changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a c=
astle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock fro=
m that time until the current time.  This supplier made an acceptable ball =
joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM supplier.=
  What happened is that during storage after manufacturing, moisture got in=
to the joint and started the rust process.  With only the Nylock nut, it wa=
s only a matter of time before the friction in the joint started to turn th=
e Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. 

Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've ne=
ver heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.  Diffe=
rent loading's, different results.

I am very lucky that: 

 

 

Regards,

Joe Brown

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/modtiger@comcast.=
net

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jay<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As the =
saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff Happens=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Nylock nuts =
are generally fine.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would say anyone with Nylock nuts =
should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety =
check.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the front =
suspension; I will check them and put a witness mark on =
them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As with any product some are junk.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I =
remember installing a Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon =
insert popped out.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I threw those Nylocks =
away.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Your situation is most likely OK.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would =
check the torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on =
them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I think the problem we have with why the nut came off =
is because we generally think in terms of static conditions.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to =
turn.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sure there are other dynamic forces =
working here too but they are beyond my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay =
Laifman<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your =
Nuts<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal> </p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine. &nbsp;What ever =
happened to it? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to =
come lose. &nbsp;But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower =
ball joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only. =
&nbsp;Are you suggesting they are all an accident away? =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom =
Hall via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><p>It's hard to believe that =
this is still happening.&nbsp; It started when Rick at Sunbeam =
Specialties changed suppliers way back in the mid-eighties.&nbsp; The =
OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new =
supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially =
accepted.&nbsp; My daughter had this &quot;accident&quot; happen in her =
Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, =
exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and =
again luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Rick arranged a meeting =
with reps for this supplier shortly after it happened.&nbsp; Rick and I =
sat down with them and they insisted this this had never happened before =
and it must have been <u>My fault</u>.&nbsp; Rick and I talked at length =
and they told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick =
however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed =
and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint =
stock from that time until the current time.&nbsp; This supplier made an =
acceptable ball joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the =
genuine OEM supplier.&nbsp; What happened is that during storage after =
manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the rust =
process.&nbsp; With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time =
before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and =
unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Conversely, the upper =
ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've never heard of anyone =
loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.&nbsp; Different =
loading's, different results.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar =
8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So,&nbsp; I =
took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just about =
home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front =
suspension&nbsp;dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before =
stopping.&nbsp; All I could think of was the old stories about exploding =
ball joints.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I walked to =
my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and =
drove back to the Tiger.&nbsp; I managed to get the front end jacked up =
and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the =
lower A arm had dropped to the road.&nbsp; My suspension pieces are at =
least 30 years old and the ball joints were&nbsp;held on with nylock =
nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A =
arms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my =
garage.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am very =
lucky that:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1. I was =
going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2. The =
front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the =
road<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3. None of =
the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>4.&nbsp; =
And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped =
up<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If this had =
happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road =
and I would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So I'm =
ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle =
nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose =
again.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p=
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D1 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=3D55 =
style=3D'width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Demailclient" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none'><o:p></o:p></span></a></p><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:blue;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:0in'><a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_sou=
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target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'text-decoration:none'>&lt;image001.jpg&gt;</span><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;border:none;text-decoration:none'><o:p></o:p></=
span></a></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></td><td width=3D470 =
style=3D'width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:1=
3.5pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>V=
irus-free.<a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Demailclient" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'color:#4453EA'>www.avg.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td>=
</tr></table></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________=
_____________________________<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: =
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target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/christophe=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div=
></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>___________________________=
____________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p=
></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers">http://www.team.net/piperma=
il/tigers</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe: <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a><o=
:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre></=
blockquote><p><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Tom =
Hall<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ModTiger Engineering =
LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>5712 San Luis =
Court<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Pleasanton, CA =
94566<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>(925)462-3876<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre><a =
href=3D"http://tigerengineering.net/">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> =
<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Do=
nate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html<=
/a><br>Archive: <a =
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<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

--===============6757255723602180252==--

---

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:42:00 -0700

--===============0601659859321326108==

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Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two nuts to jam tight?

On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Ron Fraser <[email-masked]> =
wrote:

> Nylock nuts are generally fine.   I would say anyone with Nylock nuts
> should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety check.   Seems
> to me I have some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them and
> put a witness mark on them.
>
>
>
> As with any product some are junk.   I remember installing a Nylock nut
> and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out.   I threw those
> Nylocks away.
>
>
>
> Your situation is most likely OK.   I would check the torque on the nuts
> and put a witness mark on them.
>
>
>
> I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because we
> generally think in terms of static conditions.   Vehicles are on the move=
,
> vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.   I=E2=80=99m sure there=
 are other
> dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond my grade level.
>
>
>
> Ron Fraser
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *Jay Laifman
> *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM
> *To:* [email-masked]
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts
>
> I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to
> come lose.  But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball
> joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.  Are you
> suggesting they are all an accident away?
>
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers <[email-masked]=
m.net>
he
e
r
de
n
0
up
ve
t.net

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two nuts to=
 jam tight?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM R=
on Fraser &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-5647219269819978=
616"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-5647219269819978616WordSection1">=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jay<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">As the saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff H=
appens=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></=
u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nylock nuts are generally fine.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I =
would say anyone with Nylock nuts should put a witness mark on them as an e=
asy visual safety check.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the=
 front suspension; I will check them and put a witness mark on them.<u></u>=
<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">As with any product some are junk.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I remember installing =
a Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 I threw those Nylocks away.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your situation is most likel=
y OK.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I would check the torque on the nuts and put a witness ma=
rk on them.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think the problem we have with why the nut came o=
ff is because we generally think in terms of static conditions.=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sure there are other dynamic forces working here t=
oo but they are beyond my grade level.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron Fraser<u></u><u></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div>=
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;b=
order-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tigers-bo=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1=
:45 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bla=
nk">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re:=
 [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"> </p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I remember a light blue Mazda Alpine.=
=C2=A0 What ever happened to it? =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=
 am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to come=
 lose.=C2=A0 But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball join=
ts were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.=C2=A0 Are you s=
uggesting they are all an accident away? =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"marg=
in-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom=
:12pt">On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D"marg=
in-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF <u></u>=
<u></u></p><p>It&#39;s hard to believe that this is still happening.=C2=A0 =
It started when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in t=
he mid-eighties.=C2=A0 The OEM suppliers had always used castle nuts and co=
tter keys, but this new supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which Ric=
k initially accepted.=C2=A0 My daughter had this &quot;accident&quot; happe=
n in her Rotary powered Alpine, back in the 80&#39;s, a couple of blocks fr=
om home, exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, an=
d again luckily at low speed.<u></u><u></u></p><p>Rick arranged a meeting w=
ith reps for this supplier shortly after it happened.=C2=A0 Rick and I sat =
down with them and they insisted this this had never happened before and it=
 must have been <u>My fault</u>.=C2=A0 Rick and I talked at length and they=
 told us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick however cha=
nged his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nu=
t and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from that t=
ime until the current time.=C2=A0 This supplier made an acceptable ball joi=
nt but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM supplier.=C2=
=A0 What happened is that during storage after manufacturing, moisture got =
into the joint and started the rust process.=C2=A0 With only the Nylock nut=
, it was only a matter of time before the friction in the joint started to =
turn the Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <u></u><u></u></p><=
p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I&#39=
;ve never heard of anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.=
=C2=A0 Different loading&#39;s, different results.<u></u><u></u></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5=
pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium me=
dium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor=
 currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:=
5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:me=
dium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:curre=
ntcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;=
margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Mar 8, 2=
025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>=
</div><blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-sty=
le:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">So,=C2=A0 I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short dr=
ive and as I was just about home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) t=
he right front suspension=C2=A0dropped to the ground and I skidded several =
yards before stopping.=C2=A0 All I could think of was the old stories about=
 exploding ball joints.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I walked to my ho=
use and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and drove back =
to the Tiger.=C2=A0 I managed to get the front end jacked up and discovered=
 that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A arm had drop=
ped to the road.=C2=A0 My suspension pieces are at least 30 years old and t=
he ball joints were=C2=A0held on with nylock nuts. I managed to wrap a ratc=
het strap around the upper and lower A arms and I was able to slowly drive =
the car into my garage.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am very l=
ucky that:=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">1. I wa=
s going pretty slow at the time<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">2. The front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the roa=
d<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">3. None of the body wo=
rk was damaged<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">4.=C2=A0 =
And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped up<u><=
/u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I wou=
ld have been doing 60 on a winding road and I would have wound up in a ditc=
h.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I&#39;m ordering a new set of ball =
joints and I will drill them out for castle nuts so I don&#39;t have to wor=
ry about a nut working its way loose again.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
Joe Brown<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
/div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">__________________=
_____________________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"ht=
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ormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________=
________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/don=
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[email-masked]</a><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquo=
te></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><pre>______=
_________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></pre><pre><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></pre><pre>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D=
"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Archiv=
e: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><u></u><u></u></pre><=
pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre><pre>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.tea=
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/autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></=
u></pre><pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre><pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre></blo=
ckquote><p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Tom Hal=
l<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>=
5712 San Luis Court<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<u></u><u><=
/u></pre><pre>(925)462-3876<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href=3D"mailto:modti=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><u></u><u></u></=
pre><pre><a href=3D"http://tigerengineering.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://=
tigerengineering.net/</a> <u></u><u></u></pre><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>=
<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox=
.team.net</a><br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" ta=
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/a><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div>

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[email-masked]

--===============0601659859321326108==--

---

From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 15:15:44 -0400

--===============5838780811460384383==
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Jay

I=E2=80=99m not familiar enough with the history of your Tiger so it comes =
down to how do you feel about the Nylocks.

I=E2=80=99m assuming they have been on for some time, have not moved and ar=
e probably very safe.

I would check them, mark them, then regularly inspect the witness marks for=
 any movement, then decide. 

Ron Fraser

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM
To: Ron Fraser <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Ron Fraser <[email-masked] <=
mailto:[email-masked]> > wrote:

Jay

Ron Fraser

am.net> > On Behalf Of Jay Laifman
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts

=EF=BB=BF 

I am very lucky that: 

 

 

Regards,

Joe Brown

 

 

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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jay<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99m =
not familiar enough with the history of your Tiger so it comes down to =
how do you feel about the Nylocks.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99m =
assuming they have been on for some time, have not moved and are =
probably very safe.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I would check =
them, mark them, then regularly inspect the witness marks for any =
movement, then decide. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
Jay Laifman &lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March =
10, 2025 2:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ron Fraser =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> [email-masked]; =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your =
Nuts<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and putting on two =
nuts to jam tight?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Ron Fraser &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Jay<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As the =
saying goes =E2=80=9CStuff Happens=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Nylock nuts =
are generally fine.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would say anyone with Nylock nuts =
should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety =
check.&nbsp;&nbsp; Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the front =
suspension; I will check them and put a witness mark on =
them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As with any =
product some are junk.&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember installing a Nylock nut =
and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped out.&nbsp;&nbsp; I =
threw those Nylocks away.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Your =
situation is most likely OK.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would check the torque on the =
nuts and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think the =
problem we have with why the nut came off is because we generally think =
in terms of static conditions.&nbsp;&nbsp; Vehicles are on the move, =
vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=E2=80=99m =
sure there are other dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond =
my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor =
currentcolor'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
 Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Jay Laifman<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I remember =
a light blue Mazda Alpine.&nbsp; What ever happened to it? =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am not =
sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the taper to come =
lose.&nbsp; But regardless, I think it is pretty likely my lower ball =
joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.&nbsp; =
Are you suggesting they are all an accident away? =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Mar 9, 2025, =
at 7:43=E2=80=AFPM, Tom Hall via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>=EF=BB=BF =
<o:p></o:p></p><p>It's hard to believe that this is still =
happening.&nbsp; It started when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed =
suppliers way back in the mid-eighties.&nbsp; The OEM suppliers had =
always used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new supplier went with =
the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted.&nbsp; My daughter =
had this &quot;accident&quot; happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back =
in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you were, having =
the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again luckily at low =
speed.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this =
supplier shortly after it happened.&nbsp; Rick and I sat down with them =
and they insisted this this had never happened before and it must have =
been <u>My fault</u>.&nbsp; Rick and I talked at length and they told us =
that they were not going to modify their product. Rick however changed =
his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut =
and drilled hole were installed in his lower ball joint stock from that =
time until the current time.&nbsp; This supplier made an acceptable ball =
joint but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM =
supplier.&nbsp; What happened is that during storage after =
manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the rust =
process.&nbsp; With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time =
before the friction in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut and =
unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Conversely, the upper =
ball joints have also had this Nylock nut but I've never heard of anyone =
loosing one to this friction un-screw mechanism.&nbsp; Different =
loading's, different results.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor =
currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor =
rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Mar =
8, 2025 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Joe Brown &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor =
rgb(204,204,204)'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So,&nbsp; I =
took my Tiger out yesterday for a short drive and as I was just about =
home (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the right front =
suspension&nbsp;dropped to the ground and I skidded several yards before =
stopping.&nbsp; All I could think of was the old stories about exploding =
ball joints.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I walked to =
my house and threw a floor jack and some jack stands in my truck and =
drove back to the Tiger.&nbsp; I managed to get the front end jacked up =
and discovered that the nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the =
lower A arm had dropped to the road.&nbsp; My suspension pieces are at =
least 30 years old and the ball joints were&nbsp;held on with nylock =
nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the upper and lower A =
arms and I was able to slowly drive the car into my =
garage.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am very =
lucky that:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1. I was =
going pretty slow at the time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2. The =
front end landed in some loose gravel on the side of the =
road<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3. None of =
the body work was damaged<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>4.&nbsp; =
And nothing else in the suspension looks to be damaged; just scraped =
up<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If this had =
happened 5 minutes earlier I would have been doing 60 on a winding road =
and I would have wound up in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>So I'm =
ordering a new set of ball joints and I will drill them out for castle =
nuts so I don't have to worry about a nut working its way loose =
again.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p=
><div =
id=3D"m_-5647219269819978616m_899710309926904DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2A=
A1F9FDF2"><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D1 cellpadding=3D0 =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor'><tr><td width=3D55 =
style=3D'width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:blue;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'><a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Demailclient" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'text-decoration:none'>&lt;image001.jpg&gt;</span></a></span><o:p=
></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></td><td width=3D470 =
style=3D'width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Arden Bedell <[email-masked]> (2603:10b6:303:82::26) To LV8P221MB1471.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:408:221::5) ARA:14566002|5072599009|9400799030|19110799003|8060799006|461199028|12121999004|13031999003|7092599003|6072599003|15080799006|12050799009|10035399004|3412199025|440099028|4302099013|41001999003|12091999003|56899033|1602099012;hUtGEswFr+Pw0G52e8TlaP94r6bAKyUUwFf8zfcOqg3TbegFhCuhXDKD+oHehbd6Na5L/Glqbdi2so0ulCoSDoIjjI1dG6jNta45A4c8UeALKGFOtUT7NYoFwDjd81CJjut0ORNqeqXe9jsh9K7OlMiuXhxEB12T3y5Zo8Uz1FA07rhSgZUh+9eutVyFdTcgI++3P0vOTEJXTirg+8jy7pyCLbhsY0K1PGRc9I6P3jpRFkZ6uInRP
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2025 06:19:42 -0700

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Here's some interesting information to consider about nylon and nyloc nuts:
https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon

On 3/10/25 12:15 PM, Ron Fraser via Tigers wrote:
>
> Jay
>
> I’m not familiar enough with the history of your Tiger so it comes 
> I’m assuming they have been on for some time, have not moved and are 
> probably very safe.
>
> I would check them, mark them, then regularly inspect the witness 
> marks for any movement, then decide.
>
> Ron Fraser
>
> *From:* Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM
> *To:* Ron Fraser <[email-masked]>
> *Cc:* [email-masked]; [email-masked]
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37 AM Ron Fraser <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>     Jay
>
>     As the saying goes “Stuff Happens”.
>
>     Nylock nuts are generally fine.   I would say anyone with Nylock
>     nuts should put a witness mark on them as an easy visual safety
>     check.   Seems to me I have some Nylocks on the front suspension;
>     I will check them and put a witness mark on them.
>
>     As with any product some are junk.   I remember installing a
>     Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon insert popped
>     out.   I threw those Nylocks away.
>
>     Your situation is most likely OK.   I would check the torque on
>     the nuts and put a witness mark on them.
>
>     I think the problem we have with why the nut came off is because
>     we generally think in terms of static conditions. Vehicles are on
>     the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.   I’m
>     sure there are other dynamic forces working here too but they are
>     beyond my grade level.
>
>     Ron Fraser
>
>     I am not sure I understand how friction in the ball causes the
>     taper to come lose.  But regardless, I think it is pretty likely
>     my lower ball joints were sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is
>     nyloc only.  Are you suggesting they are all an accident away?
>
>         On Mar 9, 2025, at 7:43 PM, Tom Hall via Tigers
>         <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>         
>
>         It's hard to believe that this is still happening.  It started
>         when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers way back in
>         the mid-eighties.  The OEM suppliers had always used castle
>         nuts and cotter keys, but this new supplier went with the
>         Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted.  My daughter
>         had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered Alpine, back
>         in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home, exactly as you
>         were, having the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again
>         luckily at low speed.
>
>         Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this supplier shortly
>         after it happened.  Rick and I sat down with them and they
>         insisted this this had never happened before and it must have
>         been _My fault_.  Rick and I talked at length and they told us
>         that they were not going to modify their product. Rick however
>         changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was tossed
>         and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed in his lower
>         ball joint stock from that time until the current time.  This
>         supplier made an acceptable ball joint but they also deleted
>         the copper plating of the genuine OEM supplier.  What happened
>         is that during storage after manufacturing, moisture got into
>         the joint and started the rust process.  With only the Nylock
>         nut, it was only a matter of time before the friction in the
>         joint started to turn the Nylock nut and unscrew it from the
>         taper cone.
>
>         Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had this Nylock
>         nut but I've never heard of anyone loosing one to this
>         friction un-screw mechanism.  Different loading's, different
>         results.
>
>                         So,  I took my Tiger out yesterday for a short
>                         drive and as I was just about home (maybe a
>                         front suspension dropped to the ground and I
>                         skidded several yards before stopping.  All I
>                         could think of was the old stories about
>                         exploding ball joints.
>
>                         I walked to my house and threw a floor jack
>                         and some jack stands in my truck and drove
>                         back to the Tiger.  I managed to get the front
>                         end jacked up and discovered that the nut on
>                         the lower ball joint was gone and the lower A
>                         arm had dropped to the road.  My suspension
>                         pieces are at least 30 years old and the ball
>                         joints were held on with nylock nuts. I
>                         managed to wrap a ratchet strap around the
>                         upper and lower A arms and I was able to
>                         4.  And nothing else in the suspension looks
>                         to be damaged; just scraped up
>
>                         If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I would
>                         have been doing 60 on a winding road and I
>                         would have wound up in a ditch.
>
>                         So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and I
>                         will drill them out for castle nuts so I don't
>                         have to worry about a nut working its way
>                         loose again.
>
>                         Regards,
>
>                         Joe Brown
>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>

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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <br>
    Here's some interesting information to consider about nylon and
    nyloc nuts:<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon">https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon</a><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/10/25 12:15 PM, Ron Fraser via
      Tigers wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I’m not familiar enough with the history of
          your Tiger so it comes down to how do you feel about the
          Nylocks.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I’m assuming they have been on for some
          time, have not moved and are probably very safe.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I would check them, mark them, then
          regularly inspect the witness marks for any movement, then
          decide. <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jay Laifman
          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a> <br>
          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM<br>
          <b>To:</b> Ron Fraser <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
          <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br>
          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and
            putting on two nuts to jam tight?<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37 AM Ron
              Fraser &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
            <div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As the saying
                    goes “Stuff Happens”.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nylock nuts
                    are generally fine.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would say anyone with Nylock
                    nuts should put a witness mark on them as an easy
                    visual safety check.&nbsp;&nbsp; Seems to me I have some
                    Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check them
                    and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As with any
                    product some are junk.&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember installing a
                    Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon
                    insert popped out.&nbsp;&nbsp; I threw those Nylocks away.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Your
                    situation is most likely OK.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would check the
                    torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think the
                    problem we have with why the nut came off is because
                    we generally think in terms of static conditions.&nbsp;&nbsp;
                    Vehicles are on the move, vibrations can facilitate
                    a nut or bolt to turn.&nbsp;&nbsp; I’m sure there are other
                    dynamic forces working here too but they are beyond
                    my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
                        Tigers &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I remember a
                      light blue Mazda Alpine.&nbsp; What ever happened to
                      it? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am not sure
                      I understand how friction in the ball causes the
                      taper to come lose.&nbsp; But regardless, I think it is
                      pretty likely my lower ball joints were sourced
                      from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc only.&nbsp; Are
                      you suggesting they are all an accident away? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                    <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Mar 9, 2025, at
                        7:43 PM, Tom Hall via Tigers &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p>It's hard to believe that this is still
                        happening.&nbsp; It started when Rick at Sunbeam
                        Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
                        mid-eighties.&nbsp; The OEM suppliers had always used
                        castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new
                        supplier went with the Nylock nut design. which
                        Rick initially accepted.&nbsp; My daughter had this
                        &quot;accident&quot; happen in her Rotary powered Alpine,
                        back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home,
                        exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall
                        on the ground, and again luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this
                        supplier shortly after it happened.&nbsp; Rick and I
                        sat down with them and they insisted this this
                        had never happened before and it must have been
                        <u>My fault</u>.&nbsp; Rick and I talked at length
                        and they told us that they were not going to
                        modify their product. Rick however changed his
                        receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut was
                        tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were
                        installed in his lower ball joint stock from
                        that time until the current time.&nbsp; This supplier
                        made an acceptable ball joint but they also
                        deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM
                        supplier.&nbsp; What happened is that during storage
                        after manufacturing, moisture got into the joint
                        and started the rust process.&nbsp; With only the
                        Nylock nut, it was only a matter of time before
                        the friction in the joint started to turn the
                        Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also had
                        this Nylock nut but I've never heard of anyone
                        loosing one to this friction un-screw
                        mechanism.&nbsp; Different loading's, different
                        results.<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                      <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Mar
                                              8, 2025 at 2:19 PM Joe
                                              Brown &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So,&nbsp; I took
                                                my Tiger out yesterday
                                                for a short drive and as
                                                I was just about home
                                                (maybe a hundred yards
                                                from my driveway) the
                                                right front
                                                suspension&nbsp;dropped to
                                                the ground and I skidded
                                                several yards before
                                                stopping.&nbsp; All I could
                                                think of was the old
                                                stories about exploding
                                                ball joints.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I walked to
                                                  my house and threw a
                                                  floor jack and some
                                                  jack stands in my
                                                  truck and drove back
                                                  to the Tiger.&nbsp; I
                                                  managed to get the
                                                  front end jacked up
                                                  and discovered that
                                                  the nut on the lower
                                                  ball joint was gone
                                                  and the lower A arm
                                                  had dropped to the
                                                  road.&nbsp; My suspension
                                                  pieces are at least 30
                                                  years old and the ball
                                                  joints were&nbsp;held on
                                                  with nylock nuts. I
                                                  managed to wrap a
                                                  ratchet strap around
                                                  the upper and lower A
                                                  arms and I was able to
                                                  slowly drive the car
                                                  into my garage.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am very
                                                  lucky that:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. I was
                                                  going pretty slow at
                                                  the time<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. The front
                                                  end landed in some
                                                  loose gravel on the
                                                  side of the road<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. None of
                                                  the body work was
                                                  damaged<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4.&nbsp; And
                                                  nothing else in the
                                                  suspension looks to be
                                                  damaged; just scraped
                                                  up<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If this had
                                                  happened 5 minutes
                                                  earlier I would have
                                                  been doing 60 on a
                                                  winding road and I
                                                  would have wound up in
                                                  a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So I'm
                                                  ordering a new set of
                                                  ball joints and I will
                                                  drill them out for
                                                  castle nuts so I don't
                                                  have to worry about a
                                                  nut working its way
                                                  loose again.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                              <br>
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                                  <div id="m_-5647219269819978616m_899710309926904DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
                                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
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                                          </td>
                                          <td width="470" style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
                                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.<a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=link&amp;utm_campaign=sig-email&amp;utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#4453EA">www.avg.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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                                <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                  <br>
                                  <a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
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                                  <br>
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                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
                        <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre><a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Donate: <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
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                        <pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                      <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>Tom Hall<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>5712 San Luis Court<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre>(925)462-3876<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre><a href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre><a href="http://tigerengineering.net/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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                  </blockquote>
                </div>
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          </blockquote>
        </div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________

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</pre>
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Ken Tisdale <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2025 16:04:25 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Thank you for this! Explains what us wet/snowy winter drivers need to 
look out for! Wash & dry with a hair dryer...

Ken

On 3/11/2025 7:19 AM, Arden Bedell wrote:
>>     we generally think in terms of static conditions.   Vehicles are
>>     on the move, vibrations can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.  
>>     I’m sure there are other dynamic forces working here too but they
>>     are beyond my grade level.
>>
>>     Ron Fraser
>>
>>         It's hard to believe that this is still happening.  It
>>         started when Rick at Sunbeam Specialties changed suppliers
>>         way back in the mid-eighties.  The OEM suppliers had always
>>         used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new supplier went
>>         with the Nylock nut design. which Rick initially accepted. 
>>         My daughter had this "accident" happen in her Rotary powered
>>         Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of blocks from home,
>>         exactly as you were, having the lower A-arm fall on the
>>         ground, and again luckily at low speed.
>>
>>         been _My fault_.  Rick and I talked at length and they told
>>         us that they were not going to modify their product. Rick
>>         however changed his receiveal methods so that the Nylok nut
>>         was tossed and a castle nut and drilled hole were installed
>>         in his lower ball joint stock from that time until the
>>         current time.  This supplier made an acceptable ball joint
>>         but they also deleted the copper plating of the genuine OEM
>>         supplier.  What happened is that during storage after
>>         manufacturing, moisture got into the joint and started the
>>         rust process.  With only the Nylock nut, it was only a matter
>>         of time before the friction in the joint started to turn the
>>         Nylock nut and unscrew it from the taper cone.
>>
>>                         So,  I took my Tiger out yesterday for a
>>                         short drive and as I was just about home
>>                         (maybe a hundred yards from my driveway) the
>>                         right front suspension dropped to the ground
>>                         and I skidded several yards before stopping. 
>>                         about exploding ball joints.
>>
>>                         back to the Tiger.  I managed to get the
>>                         front end jacked up and discovered that the
>>                         nut on the lower ball joint was gone and the
>>                         lower A arm had dropped to the road.  My
>>                         suspension pieces are at least 30 years old
>>                         and the ball joints were held on with nylock
>>                         nuts. I managed to wrap a ratchet strap
>>                         around the upper and lower A arms and I was
>>                         able to slowly drive the car into my garage.
>>
>>                         I am very lucky that:
>>
>>                         If this had happened 5 minutes earlier I
>>                         would have been doing 60 on a winding road
>>                         and I would have wound up in a ditch.
>>
>>                         So I'm ordering a new set of ball joints and
>>                         I will drill them out for castle nuts so I
>>                         don't have to worry about a nut working its
>>                         way loose again.
>>
>>                         Regards,
>>
>>                         Joe Brown
>>
> Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
-- 
Ken Tisdale 303-807-5488
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    <p>Thank you for this! Explains what us wet/snowy winter drivers
      need to look out for! Wash &amp; dry with a hair dryer...</p>
    <p>Ken<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2025 7:19 AM, Arden Bedell
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <br>
      Here's some interesting information to consider about nylon and
      nyloc nuts:<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon"
        moz-do-not-send="true">https://nycoa.com/recent-news/2020/moistureinnylon</a><br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/10/25 12:15 PM, Ron Fraser via
        Tigers wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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        <div class="WordSection1">
          <p class="MsoNormal">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">I’m not familiar enough with the history
            of your Tiger so it comes down to how do you feel about the
            Nylocks.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">I’m assuming they have been on for some
            time, have not moved and are probably very safe.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">I would check them, mark them, then
            regularly inspect the witness marks for any movement, then
            decide. <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jay Laifman <a
              class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a>
            <br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 2:42 PM<br>
            <b>To:</b> Ron Fraser <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>
            <b>Cc:</b> <a
              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a>;
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:[email-masked]" moz-do-not-send="true">[email-masked]</a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts on pulling off nylocks and
              putting on two nuts to jam tight?<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 11:37 AM Ron
                Fraser &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jay<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As the saying
                      goes “Stuff Happens”.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nylock nuts
                      are generally fine.   I would say anyone with
                      Nylock nuts should put a witness mark on them as
                      an easy visual safety check.   Seems to me I have
                      some Nylocks on the front suspension; I will check
                      them and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As with any
                      product some are junk.   I remember installing a
                      Nylock nut and as I tightened it down the nylon
                      insert popped out.   I threw those Nylocks away.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Your
                      situation is most likely OK.   I would check the
                      torque on the nuts and put a witness mark on them.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think the
                      problem we have with why the nut came off is
                      because we generally think in terms of static
                      conditions.   Vehicles are on the move, vibrations
                      can facilitate a nut or bolt to turn.   I’m sure
                      there are other dynamic forces working here too
                      but they are beyond my grade level.<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
                          Tigers &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jay Laifman<br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 10, 2025 1:45 AM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> <a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
                          <b>Cc:</b> <a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Check Your Nuts<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I remember a
                        light blue Mazda Alpine.  What ever happened to
                        it?  <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am not sure
                        I understand how friction in the ball causes the
                        taper to come lose.  But regardless, I think it
                        is pretty likely my lower ball joints were
                        sourced from Rick about 1994, and it is nyloc
                        only.  Are you suggesting they are all an
                        accident away?  <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Mar 9, 2025, at
                          7:43 PM, Tom Hall via Tigers &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                          wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote
                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p>It's hard to believe that this is still
                          happening.  It started when Rick at Sunbeam
                          Specialties changed suppliers way back in the
                          mid-eighties.  The OEM suppliers had always
                          used castle nuts and cotter keys, but this new
                          supplier went with the Nylock nut design.
                          which Rick initially accepted.  My daughter
                          had this "accident" happen in her Rotary
                          powered Alpine, back in the 80's, a couple of
                          blocks from home, exactly as you were, having
                          the lower A-arm fall on the ground, and again
                          luckily at low speed.<o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p>Rick arranged a meeting with reps for this
                          supplier shortly after it happened.  Rick and
                          I sat down with them and they insisted this
                          this had never happened before and it must
                          have been <u>My fault</u>.  Rick and I talked
                          at length and they told us that they were not
                          going to modify their product. Rick however
                          changed his receiveal methods so that the
                          Nylok nut was tossed and a castle nut and
                          drilled hole were installed in his lower ball
                          joint stock from that time until the current
                          time.  This supplier made an acceptable ball
                          joint but they also deleted the copper plating
                          of the genuine OEM supplier.  What happened is
                          that during storage after manufacturing,
                          moisture got into the joint and started the
                          rust process.  With only the Nylock nut, it
                          was only a matter of time before the friction
                          in the joint started to turn the Nylock nut
                          and unscrew it from the taper cone. <o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p>Conversely, the upper ball joints have also
                          had this Nylock nut but I've never heard of
                          anyone loosing one to this friction un-screw
                          mechanism.  Different loading's, different
                          results.<o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Mar
                                                8, 2025 at 2:19 PM Joe
                                                Brown &lt;<a
href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)">
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So,  I took
                                                  my Tiger out yesterday
                                                  for a short drive and
                                                  as I was just about
                                                  home (maybe a hundred
                                                  yards from my
                                                  driveway) the right
                                                  front
                                                  suspension dropped to
                                                  the ground and I
                                                  skidded several yards
                                                  before stopping.  All
                                                  I could think of was
                                                  the old stories about
                                                  exploding ball
                                                  joints. <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I walked to
                                                    my house and threw a
                                                    floor jack and some
                                                    jack stands in my
                                                    truck and drove back
                                                    to the Tiger.  I
                                                    managed to get the
                                                    front end jacked up
                                                    and discovered that
                                                    the nut on the lower
                                                    ball joint was gone
                                                    and the lower A arm
                                                    had dropped to the
                                                    road.  My suspension
                                                    pieces are at least
                                                    30 years old and the
                                                    ball joints
                                                    were held on with
                                                    nylock nuts. I
                                                    managed to wrap a
                                                    ratchet strap around
                                                    the upper and lower
                                                    A arms and I was
                                                    able to slowly drive
                                                    the car into my
                                                    garage. <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I am very
                                                    lucky that: <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. I was
                                                    going pretty slow at
                                                    the time<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. The front
                                                    end landed in some
                                                    loose gravel on the
                                                    side of the road<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. None of
                                                    the body work was
                                                    damaged<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4.  And
                                                    nothing else in the
                                                    suspension looks to
                                                    be damaged; just
                                                    scraped up<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If this had
                                                    happened 5 minutes
                                                    earlier I would have
                                                    been doing 60 on a
                                                    winding road and I
                                                    would have wound up
                                                    in a ditch.<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So I'm
                                                    ordering a new set
                                                    of ball joints and I
                                                    will drill them out
                                                    for castle nuts so I
                                                    don't have to worry
                                                    about a nut working
                                                    its way loose
                                                    again.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joe Brown<o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                                <br>
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                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
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                                    <div
id="m_-5647219269819978616m_899710309926904DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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                                        border="1" cellpadding="0"
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                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:13.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.<a
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                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <a
href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
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                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                          <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre><a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
                          <pre>Donate: <a
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                        </blockquote>
                        <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Tom Hall<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>ModTiger Engineering LLC<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>5712 San Luis Court<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>Pleasanton, CA 94566<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre>(925)462-3876<o:p></o:p></pre>
                        <pre><a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://tigerengineering.net/</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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        <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________

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