Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring

From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 07:39:53 -0600 (MDT)

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From: Robert Wanty <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:41:37 -0400

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Thanks for the responses.
Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple
wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to
ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the  horn
it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are
grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires when I only have
connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to
each horn.
So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn,
use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to
the other horn?

On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they
> could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.
>
> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It
> would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contac=
t
> does not have to pass that much current.
> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.
>
> Theo
>
> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay.
> When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the
> circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12=
V+
> to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to
> activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specific=
s
> but MOST cars function that way.
>
>  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone
> presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act
> like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power
> to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases y=
ou
> turn the switch off. Hope that helps.
>
> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
>
> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year
> restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Startin=
g
> at the horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire between the tw=
o
> horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each si=
de
> is hot  and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded.=
 I
> installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on t=
he
> horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch,=
 I
> think the wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I don't seem to
> have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the
> wire to the horn ring.
> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact the=
n
> a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness
> does not seem to follow that way of thinking.
> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this
> will probably start a fire.
> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so
> hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the responses.<div><div>Everything is wired to =
the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one i=
s hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is=
 pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the=C2=A0 horn it works fine, even ho=
nks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame=
.=C2=A0 I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two an=
d the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.</div></div><di=
v>So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn,=
 use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire t=
o the other horn?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would=
 never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a =
finicky sliding contact.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It=
 would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact=
 does not have to pass that much current.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr">If yo=
u like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Theo<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 23, 20=
23, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
m.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></bloc=
kquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

 =20
   =20
 =20
 =20
    <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said
      relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay
      (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect.
      That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn
      ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for
      me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function
      that way.</p>
    <p>=C2=A0Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. Whe=
n
      someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and
      the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on
      position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the
      person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off.
      Hope that helps.<br>
    </p>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div>On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
      <div dir=3D"ltr">I am working on wiring the horns for the first time
        since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring
        harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on=C2=A0 each
        side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2
        purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot=C2=
=A0
        and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or
        grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire
        from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the
        circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the
        circle contact should be hot=C2=A0 but I don&#39;t seem to have a
        connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for
        the wire to the horn ring.
        <div>It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the
          ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is
          pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow=C2=A0that
          way of thinking.<br>
          <div>The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited
            knowledge on this will probably start a fire.</div>
          <div>Any help would be=C2=A0appreciated, I would rather not rewir=
e
            the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"ht=
tp://system.to" target=3D"_blank">system.to</a>
            its original splendor.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Bob=C2=A0</div>
          <div>=C2=A0</div>
          <div><br>
            <div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <pre>_______________________________________________

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</pre>
    </blockquote>
 =20

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[email-masked]

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From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 19:45:21 -0600 (MDT)

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Hi Bob, 

The wiring diagram here: [ http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg | http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg ] shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. 

But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. 
This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). 

Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. 

Theo 

From: "Bob Wanty" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Theo Smit" <[email-masked]> 
Cc: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked]>, "tigers" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring 

Thanks for the responses. 
Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. 
So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? 

On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM Theo Smit < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 

Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. 

Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. 
If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. 

Theo 

BQ_BEGIN
On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. 

Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. 

BQ_BEGIN

I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. 
It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. 
The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. 
Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas [ http://system.to/ | system.to ] its original splendor. 

Bob 

_______________________________________________ [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked] | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked] ] 

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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Hi Bob,</div><div><br></div><div>The wiring=
 diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/M=
KIABIGwiring.jpg" data-mce-href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt=
-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg">http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/=
MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 =
volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connec=
tions. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your=
 car has that then it was added by a previous owner.</div><div><img src=3D"=
cid:cd8515932b52a1fd1f0b247d29f37b9398e75694@zimbra" data-mce-src=3D"cid:cd=
8515932b52a1fd1f0b247d29f37b9398e75694@zimbra"></div><div><br></div><div>Bu=
t, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, =
then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's=
 intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resista=
nces then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from =
each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you is=
olate where the wiring problem is.</div><div><img src=3D"cid:5bd94ec91b8b50=
b0f4f2d2e125541c1901e3c9e6@zimbra" data-mce-src=3D"cid:5bd94ec91b8b50b0f4f2=
d2e125541c1901e3c9e6@zimbra" style=3D"font-size: 10pt;"></div><div>This is =
a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the be=
ll. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to eac=
h other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way=
 you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the termi=
nals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected =
(or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&nbsp;</div><div>=
<br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Do both horns work the same way (i.e. t=
hey go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? I=
f one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect=
 the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and=
 it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by=
 opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is.</div><div><br dat=
a-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Theo</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data=
-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Bob =
Wanty" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Theo Smit" &lt;tsmit@shaw.=
ca&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"Tom Witt" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "tigers" &l=
t;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41=
:37 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring</div><div><br></div><div=
 data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the responses.=
<div><div>Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2=
 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goe=
s to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&=
nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original sin=
ce they are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 purple wires when I=
 only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires,=
 one to each horn.</div></div><div>So should I isolate the horn frame groun=
d, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns=
 and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn?</div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 24, 202=
3 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:ts=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; p=
adding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left=
: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would nev=
er use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a fini=
cky sliding contact.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It wou=
ld be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact doe=
s not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr">If you li=
ke I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Theo<br><blockquote>On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, T=
om Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:tigers@=
autox.team.net">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></=
div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><p>I believe most horns have a relay and t=
he 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUN=
DS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect.=
 That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring sim=
ply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the ma=
nual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way.</p><p>&nbsp;Think=
 of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses =
you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the =
relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the lig=
ht (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the =
switch off. Hope that helps.</p><div><br></div><div>On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, R=
obert Wanty wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr">I am working on wiring=
 the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with t=
he original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on=
&nbsp; each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purp=
le wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot&nbsp; and wired=
 to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new =
horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a=
 second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire=
 for the circle contact should be hot&nbsp; but I don't seem to have a conn=
ector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the =
horn ring.<div>It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the rin=
g contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wi=
ring harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.<br><div>The=
 wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will=
 probably start a fire.</div><div>Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I wou=
ld rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a h=
ref=3D"http://system.to" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener norefer=
rer" data-mce-href=3D"http://system.to">system.to</a> its original splendor=
.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Bob&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><=
div><br><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;</div></div></div></div><br><fieldset></fieldset><=
pre>_______________________________________________

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---

From: Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 19:04:42 -0700

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Using a relay (as I had originally thought /might/ be there... but 
wasn't, and Theo recommends) would simplify the situation_if the horns 
are actually grounded already_ as you state. The already present 12v+ 
near the horn would become the relay input (30) and loop to provide 12V+ 
power to the relay coil (85). The ground-able horn contact would provide 
ground to the relay coil - (86) and complete the 12V+ circuit providing 
12V+ power output (87) to the horns. The numbers refer to the typical 
relay designations. And, yes the 12V+ just daisy chains to the next horn 
also.

So, the ground is constant at the horn. 12V+ is constant at the relay 
input and the coil +. Grounding the horn at the steering wheel ring will 
trigger the relay to close and send 12V+ to the horns.

On 9/24/2023 5:41 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 
> purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire 
> goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire 
> to the  horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be 
> original since they are grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple 
> wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only 
> shows two wires, one to each horn.
> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the 
> horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn 
> ring wire to the other horn?
>
> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>     Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay
>     where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky
>     sliding contact.
>
>     Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps
>     each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that
>     the ring contact does not have to pass that much current.
>>     On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers
>>     <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>
>>     I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said
>>     that way.
>>      Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When
>>     someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you
>>     and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on
>>     person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch
>>     off. Hope that helps.
>>
>>
>>>     I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15
>>>     year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and
>>>     horns. Starting at the horns there is one on  each side with a
>>>     jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires
>>>     leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot  and wired to
>>>     the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed
>>>     a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on
>>>     the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the
>>>     signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be
>>>     hot  but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness
>>>     under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.
>>>     It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring
>>>     contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed.
>>>     but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking.
>>>     The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited
>>>     knowledge on this will probably start a fire.
>>>     Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the
>>>     circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to
>>>     <http://system.to> its original splendor.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>     Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>     Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>>
>>>     Unsubscribe:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>>>
>>>
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    <p>Using a relay (as I had originally thought <i>might</i> be
      there... but wasn't, and Theo recommends) would simplify the
      situation<u> if the horns are actually grounded already</u> as you
      state. The already present 12v+ near the horn would become the
      relay input (30) and loop to provide 12V+ power to the relay coil
      (85). The ground-able horn contact would provide ground to the
      relay coil - (86) and complete the 12V+ circuit providing 12V+ 
      power output (87) to the horns. The numbers refer to the typical
      relay designations. And, yes the 12V+ just daisy chains to the
      next horn also.</p>
    <p>So, the ground is constant at the horn. 12V+ is constant at the
      relay input and the coil +. Grounding the horn at the steering
      wheel ring will trigger the relay to close and send 12V+ to the
      horns.<br>
    </p>
    <p><img src="cid:[email-masked]" alt=""></p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/24/2023 5:41 PM, Robert Wanty
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAOCAEMWb4=[email-masked]">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">Thanks for the responses.
        <div>
          <div>Everything is wired to the horns, they look original.
            There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the
            fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is
            pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the  horn it works
            fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since
            they are grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires
            when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram
            only shows two wires, one to each horn.</div>
        </div>
        <div>So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot
          wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns
          and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn?</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at
          1:50 PM Theo Smit &lt;<a href="mailto:[email-masked]"
            moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="auto">
            <div dir="ltr">Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would
              never use a relay where they could instead pass all the
              current through a finicky sliding contact. </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw
              about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in
              a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have
              to pass that much current. </div>
            <div dir="ltr">If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram
              for that. </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Theo<br>
              <blockquote type="cite">On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom
                Witt via Tigers &lt;<a
                  href="mailto:[email-masked]" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is
                  already at said relay. When the horn ring makes
                  contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit)
                  and the relay contact points connect. That passes
                  through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn
                  ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry
                  too late for me to check the manual for Tiger
                  specifics but MOST cars function that way.</p>
                <p> Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the
                  house. When someone presses you on the shoulder
                  (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the
                  relay moving the switch to the on position. This then
                  send power to the light (horn). When the person
                  pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch
                  off. Hope that helps.<br>
                </p>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">I am working on wiring the horns for
                    the first time since my 15 year restore. I am
                    working with the original wiring harness and horns.
                    Starting at the horns there is one on  each side
                    with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are
                    2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on
                    each side is hot  and wired to the fuse box the
                    second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a
                    new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the
                    contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the
                    circle contact off the signal switch, I think the
                    wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I
                    don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness
                    under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn
                    ring.
                    <div>It would seem to me that I should have a hot
                      wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns
                      when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring
                      harness does not seem to follow that way of
                      thinking.<br>
                      <div>The wiring diagram is some help but as usual
                        my limited knowledge on this will probably start
                        a fire.</div>
                      <div>Any help would be appreciated, I would rather
                        not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can
                        restore the Lucas <a href="http://system.to"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">system.to</a>
                        its original splendor.</div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Bob </div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <div><br>
                        <div>  </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <fieldset></fieldset>
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