Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring

From: Bob Wanty <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:33:19 -0400

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I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the H=
ellas a try

> On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumblin=
g.  I saved them for a future project.  What I installed in my car was a pai=
r of Hella dual trumpet horns.  You can see them at https://www.summitracing=
.com/parts/hla-007424801.  They come with a relay and they mount up in the o=
riginal locations with the original wiring.  I didn't use the relay but I mi=
ght go back and add it.  I tested them before I installed them and they were=
 really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them.  So I=
'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current t=
o them and have a louder sound.
>=20
> Have Fun,
> Joe Brown
>=20
>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad@comcast=
.net> wrote:
>> Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals tha=
t are both 12V.
>> There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could=
 remember.
>> I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
>> =20
>> I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.  Unlike=
 Theo, I couldn't
>> see any way to fix that one.
>> =20
>> Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still w=
ork) or add a relay for the
>> fans you already have.
>> Gary W.
>> =20
>> =20
>>> On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The re=
lay idea sounds good.
>>> Thanks for the help.
>>> Bob
>>>=20
>>>> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote:=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> =20
>>>> The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-image=
s/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 vol=
ts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connection=
s. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car h=
as that then it was added by a previous owner.
>>>> <Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png>
>>>> =20
>>>> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot s=
ide, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how i=
t's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resis=
tances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from=
 each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you is=
olate where the wiring problem is.
>>>> <Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png>
>>>> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast=
 into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the poi=
nts) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itsel=
f. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of t=
he terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not con=
nected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).=20
>>>> =20
>>>> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is c=
onnected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect=
 the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire t=
o the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an inter=
nal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out w=
here the short is.
>>>> =20
>>>> Theo
>>>> =20
>>>> From: "Bob Wanty" <[email-masked]>=20
>>>> To: "Theo Smit" <[email-masked]>=20
>>>> Cc: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked]>, "tigers" <[email-masked]=
t>=20
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM=20
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
>>>> =20
>>>> Thanks for the responses.
>>>> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purpl=
e wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to gr=
ound when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the  horn it=
 works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are gr=
ounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connectio=
ns for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.
>>>> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the hor=
n, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire t=
o the other horn?
>>>>=20
>>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>>>> =20
>>>> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where the=
y could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.=20
>>>> =20
>>>> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It w=
ould be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact do=
es not have to pass that much current.=20
>>>> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.=20
>>>> =20
>>>> Theo=20
>>>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]=
t> wrote:=20
>>>>=20
>>>> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay=
. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circ=
uit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to t=
he horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate i=
t. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST ca=
rs function that way.
>>>>=20
>>>>  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someon=
e presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act l=
ike the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to t=
he light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn=
 the switch off. Hope that helps.
>>>>=20
>>>> =20
>>>> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
>>>> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year re=
store. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at t=
he horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire between the two horns=
, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is ho=
t  and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I insta=
lled a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn r=
ing and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think t=
he wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I don't seem to have a con=
nector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the h=
orn ring.
>>>> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact t=
hen a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness=
 does not seem to follow that way of thinking.=20
>>>> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on th=
is will probably start a fire.
>>>> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits s=
o hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> Bob=20
>>>> =20
>>>>=20
>>>>  =20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>=20
>>>> [email-masked]
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive
>>>>=20
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@ve=
rizon.net
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________=20
>>>>=20
>>>> [email-masked]=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/arc=
hive=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty@gmai=
l.com=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________=20
>>>=20
>>> [email-masked]=20
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive=20
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mcast.net=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archi=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I f=
ound the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the Hel=
las a try</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 25, 202=
3, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></block=
quote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"=
ltr">I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumb=
ling.&nbsp; I saved them for a future project.&nbsp; What I installed in my c=
ar was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.&nbsp; You can see them at&nbsp;<a=
 href=3D"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801">https://www.summi=
tracing.com/parts/hla-007424801</a>.&nbsp; They come with a relay and they m=
ount up in the original locations with the original wiring.&nbsp; I didn't u=
se the relay but I might go back and add it.&nbsp; I tested them before I in=
stalled them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud af=
ter I installed them.&nbsp; So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use th=
e relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound.<div><br></di=
v><div>Have Fun,</div><div>Joe Brown</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AF=
PM GARY WINBLAD &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">garywinblad@c=
omcast.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
  =20
=20
 <div>
  <div>
   Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals tha=
t are both 12V.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could=
 remember.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.&nbsp; U=
nlike Theo, I couldn't
  </div>=20
  <div>
   see any way to fix that one.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still w=
ork) or add a relay for the
  </div>=20
  <div>
   fans you already have.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Gary W.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
   <div>
    On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The re=
lay idea sounds good.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Thanks for the help.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Bob
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@shaw=
.ca" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">=20
      <div>
       Hi Bob,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resources=
/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" target=3D"_blank">http://tigersunited.com/=
resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires t=
o the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that ar=
e the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn t=
o the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the ho=
t side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not h=
ow it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low r=
esistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and f=
rom each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you=
 isolate where the wiring problem is.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L ca=
st into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the p=
oints) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body its=
elf. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one o=
f the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not c=
onnected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot i=
s connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (conn=
ect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wi=
re to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an i=
nternal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring o=
ut where the short is.
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Theo
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <hr id=3D"m_-7690374029801399408zwchr">=20
      <div>
       <strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@shaw=
.ca" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:atwittsend@=
verizon.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "tigers" &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
       <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Thanks for the responses.=20
        <div>=20
         <div>
          Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 p=
urple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes t=
o ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&nbsp=
; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since th=
ey are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 purple wires when I only h=
ave connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to e=
ach horn.
         </div>=20
        </div>=20
        <div>
         So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the=
 horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring w=
ire to the other horn?
        </div>=20
       </div>=20
       <br>=20
       <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
        <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
         On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:
        </div>=20
        <blockquote>=20
         <div dir=3D"auto">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay whe=
re they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact=
.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps eac=
h. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring con=
tact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Theo
           <br>=20
           <blockquote>
            On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">tigers@aut=
ox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
            <br>
            <br>
           </blockquote>=20
          </div>=20
          <blockquote>=20
           <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
            <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at s=
aid relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing=
 the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 1=
2V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to ac=
tivate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but=
 MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
            <p>&nbsp;Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the hou=
se. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and t=
he switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then=
 send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder r=
eleases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
            </div>=20
            <blockquote>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 1=
5 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Sta=
rting at the horns there is one on&nbsp; each side with a jumper wire betwee=
n the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on e=
ach side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot o=
r grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the c=
ontact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the sig=
nal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot&nbsp; but I=
 don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and not=
hing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
              <div>
               It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring=
 contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiri=
ng harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.
               <br>=20
               <div>
                The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited know=
ledge on this will probably start a fire.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather not rewir=
e the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://system=
.to" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">system.to</a> its original splendor.=

               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Bob&nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                <br>=20
                <div>
                 &nbsp;&nbsp;
                </div>=20
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20
             <pre>_______________________________________________

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</pre>=20
            </blockquote>=20
           </div>=20
          </blockquote>=20
         </div> _______________________________________________
         <br>
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t=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
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---

From: GARY WINBLAD <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:45:51 -0400 (EDT)

--===============3949112892036537607==
	boundary="----=_Part_82945_745163764.1695678351878"

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I found mine in a box after probably 35 years.  They were broken/intermitta=
nt when I put them
away.
I was able to just adjust them back to life and they are still working prob=
ably 10 years later.
Gary
=20

> On 09/25/2023 2:33 PM PDT Bob Wanty <[email-masked]> wrote:
> =20
> =20
> =20
> I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give t=
he Hellas a try
> > I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumb=
ling.  I saved them for a future project.  What I installed in my car was a=
 pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.  You can see them at https://www.summitr=
acing.com/parts/hla-007424801.  They come with a relay and they mount up in=
 the original locations with the original wiring.  I didn't use the relay b=
ut I might go back and add it.  I tested them before I installed them and t=
hey were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed t=
hem.  So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get mor=
e current to them and have a louder sound.
> > =20
> > Have Fun,
> > Joe Brown
> >=20
> > On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad@comca=
st.net mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:
> >=20
> > > Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals=
 that are both 12V.
> > > There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I c=
ould remember.
> > > I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.  Un=
like Theo, I couldn't
> > > Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that sti=
ll work) or add a relay for the
> > > fans you already have.
> > > Gary W.
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > >=20
> > > > On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty <[email-masked] mailto:bobw=
[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > > =20
> > > > =20
> > > > =20
> > > > My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. T=
he relay idea sounds good.
> > > > Thanks for the help.
> > > > Bob
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <[email-masked] mailto:tsmi=
[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > Hi Bob,
> > > > > =20
> > > > > The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt=
-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding=
 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring co=
nnections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if =
your car has that then it was added by a previous owner.
> > > > > But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just th=
e hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is =
not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very=
 low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn termina=
ls and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would=
 help you isolate where the wiring problem is.
> > > > > This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an =
L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and =
the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn bo=
dy itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connectin=
g one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire=
 is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel)=
.=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > > Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the h=
ot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly =
(connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-str=
ipe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that h=
as an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and f=
iguring out where the short is.
> > > > > =20
> > > > > Theo
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------
> > > > > From: "Bob Wanty" <[email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]>
> > > > > To: "Theo Smit" <[email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]>
> > > > > Cc: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked] mailto:atwittsend@verizon.=
net>, "tigers" <[email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
> > > > > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2=
 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goe=
s to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the =
 horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since th=
ey are grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires when I only have=
 connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to ea=
ch horn.
> > > > > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to t=
he horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn rin=
g wire to the other horn?
> > > > >=20
> > > > > On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <[email-masked] =
mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > =20
> > > > > > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay w=
here they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding cont=
act.=20
> > > > > > =20
> > > > > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps e=
ach. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring =
contact does not have to pass that much current.=20
> > > > > > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <tigers@aut=
ox.team.net mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at =
said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completi=
ng the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through t=
he 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay =
to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifi=
cs but MOST cars function that way.
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. W=
hen someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the =
switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then s=
end power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder re=
leases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.
> > > > > > > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since m=
y 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns.=
 Starting at the horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire betwee=
n the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on=
 each side is hot  and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or =
grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the co=
ntact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the sig=
nal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I do=
n't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothi=
ng for the wire to the horn ring.
> > > > > > > > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ri=
ng contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the w=
iring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking.
> > > > > > > > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited kno=
wledge on this will probably start a fire.
> > > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire th=
e circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucashttp://system.to its origina=
l splendor.
> > > > > > > > [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.=
team.net/archive
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/a=
[email-masked]
> > > > > > [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team=
.net/archive
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwa=
[email-masked]
> > > > [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> > > >=20
> > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net=
/archive
> > > >=20
> > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinbl=
[email-masked]
> > > [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> > >=20
> > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
> > >=20
> > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jbbrown1980=
@gmail.com

------=_Part_82945_745163764.1695678351878
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head>=20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
 </head>
 <body>
  <div>
   I found mine in a box after probably 35 years.&nbsp; They were broken/in=
termittant when I put them
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   away.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   I was able to just adjust them back to life and they are still working p=
robably 10 years later.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   Gary
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
   <div>
    On 09/25/2023 2:33 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give=
 the Hellas a try
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown &lt;[email-masked]&gt; w=
rote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div dir=3D"ltr">
      I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was cru=
mbling.&nbsp; I saved them for a future project.&nbsp; What I installed in =
my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.&nbsp; You can see them at&nb=
sp;<a href=3D"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801">https://www=
.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801</a>.&nbsp; They come with a relay and=
 they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring.&nbsp; I =
didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it.&nbsp; I tested them be=
fore I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be =
as loud after I installed them.&nbsp; So I'm guessing that if I rewire them=
 and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound.=
=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Have Fun,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Joe Brown
      </div>=20
     </div>=20
     <br>=20
     <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
      <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
       On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
      </div>=20
      <blockquote>
       <u></u>=20
       <div>=20
        <div>
         Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 termin=
als that are both 12V.
        </div>=20
        <div>
         There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish =
I could remember.
        </div>=20
        <div>
         I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
        </div>=20
        <div>
         &nbsp;
        </div>=20
        <div>
         I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.&=
nbsp; Unlike Theo, I couldn't
        </div>=20
        <div>
         see any way to fix that one.
        </div>=20
        <div>
         &nbsp;
        </div>=20
        <div>
         Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that =
still work) or add a relay for the
        </div>=20
        <div>
         fans you already have.
        </div>=20
        <div>
         Gary W.
        </div>=20
        <div>
         &nbsp;
        </div>=20
        <div>
         &nbsp;
        </div>=20
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
         <div>
          On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwant=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:
         </div>=20
         <div>
          &nbsp;
         </div>=20
         <div>
          &nbsp;
         </div>=20
         <div dir=3D"ltr">
          &nbsp;
         </div>=20
         <div dir=3D"ltr">
          My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns.=
 The relay idea sounds good.
         </div>=20
         <div dir=3D"ltr">
          Thanks for the help.
         </div>=20
         <div dir=3D"ltr">
          Bob
         </div>=20
         <div dir=3D"ltr">
          <br>=20
          <blockquote type=3D"cite">
           On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsm=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
=20
           <br>
           <br>
          </blockquote>=20
         </div>=20
         <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
           <div style=3D"font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size=
: 10pt; color: #000000;">=20
            <div>
             Hi Bob,
            </div>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/re=
sources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener"=
>http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> show=
s two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with=
 black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separat=
e jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was =
added by a previous owner.
            </div>=20
            <div>=20
             <div>
              &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
             </div>=20
            </div>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just=
 the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which =
is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure v=
ery low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn term=
inals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That wo=
uld help you isolate where the wiring problem is.
            </div>=20
            <div>=20
             <div>
              &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
             </div>=20
            </div>=20
            <div>
             This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has =
an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil a=
nd the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn=
 body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connec=
ting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other w=
ire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering whe=
el).&nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only th=
e hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works proper=
ly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-=
stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one tha=
t has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up an=
d figuring out where the short is.
            </div>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             Theo
            </div>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <hr id=3D"m_-7690374029801399408zwchr">=20
            <div>
             <strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwa=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
;=20
             <br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsm=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20
             <br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:atwi=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;, "tigers" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=20
             <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 =
PM=20
             <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
            </div>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              Thanks for the responses.=20
              <div>=20
               <div>
                Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There=
 are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wi=
re goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire t=
o the&nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be origin=
al since they are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 purple wires =
when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two =
wires, one to each horn.
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
              <div>
               So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire=
 to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the hor=
n ring wire to the other horn?
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20
             <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
              <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
               On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]=
</a>&gt; wrote:
              </div>=20
              <blockquote>=20
               <div dir=3D"auto">=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 &nbsp;
                </div>=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a re=
lay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding=
 contact.&nbsp;
                </div>=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 &nbsp;
                </div>=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three a=
mps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the =
ring contact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;
                </div>=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;
                </div>=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 &nbsp;
                </div>=20
                <div dir=3D"ltr">
                 Theo=20
                 <br>=20
                 <blockquote>
                  On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">ti=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=20
                  <br>
                  <br>
                 </blockquote>=20
                </div>=20
                <blockquote>=20
                 <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
                  <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is alre=
ady at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (c=
ompleting the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes th=
rough the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the=
 relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger =
specifics but MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
                  <p>&nbsp;Think of yourself standing at a light switch in =
the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) =
you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position.=
 This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your=
 shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
                  <div>
                   &nbsp;
                  </div>=20
                  <div>
                   On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
                  </div>=20
                  <blockquote>=20
                   <div dir=3D"ltr">
                    I am working on wiring the horns for the first time sin=
ce my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and ho=
rns. Starting at the horns there is one on&nbsp; each side with a jumper wi=
re between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, on=
e wire on each side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the fuse box the second wire =
is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wi=
re from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle conta=
ct off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be=
 hot&nbsp; but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under=
 the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
                    <div>
                     It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to t=
he ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but =
the wiring harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.=20
                     <br>=20
                     <div>
                      The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limit=
ed knowledge on this will probably start a fire.
                     </div>=20
                     <div>
                      Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather no=
t rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http:=
//system.to" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">system.to</a> its original =
splendor.
                     </div>=20
                     <div>
                      &nbsp;
                     </div>=20
                     <div>
                      &nbsp;
                     </div>=20
                     <div>
                      Bob&nbsp;
                     </div>=20
                     <div>
                      &nbsp;
                     </div>=20
                     <div>
                      <br>=20
                      <div>
                       &nbsp;&nbsp;
                      </div>=20
                     </div>=20
                    </div>=20
                   </div>=20
                   <br>=20
                   <pre>_______________________________________________

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener"=
>[email-masked]</a>

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------=_Part_82945_745163764.1695678351878--

--===============3949112892036537607==
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[email-masked]

--===============3949112892036537607==--

---

From: Theo Smit <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:28:06 -0600 (MDT)

--===============2290998892511247836==
	boundary="=_8c82cd5d-5279-4eeb-a993-ae4d22ff78f7"

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Based on the review info on Summit, the Hella horns have the same wiring as the OEM Clear Hooters so you should be good to go. Another source I found indicated the power consumption is 72W so that should be 6A at 12V, the same as OEM also. You would still be best off with running these through a relay. 

[ https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html | https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html ] 

On Hella's site you can hear what they sound like. 

Cheers, 
Theo 

From: "Bob Wanty" <[email-masked]> 
To: "Joe Brown" <[email-masked]> 
Cc: "Gary" <[email-masked]>, "Theo Smit" <[email-masked]>, "tigers" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 3:33:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring 

I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might give the Hellas a try 

BQ_BEGIN

I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling. I saved them for a future project. What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns. You can see them at [ https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801 | https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801 ] . They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring. I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it. I tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them. So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound. 
Have Fun, 
Joe Brown 

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21 PM GARY WINBLAD < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that are both 12V. 
There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could remember. 
I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them. 
I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him. Unlike Theo, I couldn't 
see any way to fix that one. 
Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still work) or add a relay for the 
fans you already have. 
Gary W. 

BQ_BEGIN

On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 
My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea sounds good. 
Thanks for the help. 
Bob 

BQ_BEGIN
On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 

BQ_END

BQ_BEGIN

Hi Bob, 
The wiring diagram here: [ http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg | http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg ] shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner. 
<Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png> 
But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is. 
<Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png> 
This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel). 
Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is. 
Theo 

From: "Bob Wanty" < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > 
To: "Theo Smit" < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > 
Cc: "Tom Witt" < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] >, "tigers" < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > 
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring 
Thanks for the responses. 
Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame. I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn. 
So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the other horn? 

On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50 PM Theo Smit < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact. 
Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact does not have to pass that much current. 
If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that. 
Theo 

BQ_BEGIN
On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers < [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] > wrote: 

BQ_END

BQ_BEGIN

I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way. 

Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps. 
On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring. 
It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking. 
The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a fire. 
Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas [ http://system.to/ | system.to ] its original splendor. 
Bob 

_______________________________________________ [ mailto:[email-masked] | [email-masked] ] Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] Archive: [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers | http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers ] [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] Unsubscribe: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked] | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked] ] 

BQ_END

BQ_END

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--=_8c82cd5d-5279-4eeb-a993-ae4d22ff78f7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Based on the review info on Summit, the Hel=
la horns have the same wiring as the OEM Clear Hooters so you should be goo=
d to go. Another source I found indicated the power consumption is 72W so t=
hat should be 6A at 12V, the same as OEM also. You would still be best off =
with running these through a relay.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></di=
v><div><a href=3D"https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html">http=
s://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html</a><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"=
></div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>On Hella's site you can hea=
r what they sound like.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Cheer=
s,</div><div>Theo</div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div da=
ta-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Bob Wanty" &lt;[email-masked]&g=
t;<br><b>To: </b>"Joe Brown" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"G=
ary" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "Theo Smit" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "t=
igers" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, September 25, =
2023 3:33:19 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring<br></div><div><=
br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I mig=
ht give the Hellas a try</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote>On Sep 25, 2=
023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></bl=
ockquote></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">I attempted to=
 repair my original horns but the wiring inside was crumbling.&nbsp; I save=
d them for a future project.&nbsp; What I installed in my car was a pair of=
 Hella dual trumpet horns.&nbsp; You can see them at&nbsp;<a href=3D"https:=
//www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow noopener noreferrer">https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801</a=
>.&nbsp; They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations=
 with the original wiring.&nbsp; I didn't use the relay but I might go back=
 and add it.&nbsp; I tested them before I installed them and they were real=
ly loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them.&nbsp; So=
 I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more curren=
t to them and have a louder sound.<br><div>Have Fun,</div><div>Joe Brown</d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener nore=
ferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
  =20
=20
 <div>
  <div>
   Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals th=
at are both 12V.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I coul=
d remember.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.&nbsp; =
Unlike Theo, I couldn't
  </div>=20
  <div>
   see any way to fix that one.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still =
work) or add a relay for the
  </div>=20
  <div>
   fans you already have.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Gary W.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <blockquote>=20
   <div>
    On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">bobwanty@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The r=
elay idea sounds good.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Thanks for the help.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Bob
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote>
     On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@sha=
w.ca" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; wrote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote>=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size=
:10pt;color:rgb( 0 , 0 , 0 )">=20
      <div>
       Hi Bob,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resource=
s/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopen=
er noreferrer">http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwirin=
g.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and t=
wo purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There=
 is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has tha=
t then it was added by a previous owner.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the h=
ot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not=
 how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very lo=
w resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals =
and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would he=
lp you isolate where the wiring problem is.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L c=
ast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the=
 points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body =
itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting o=
ne of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is=
 not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&n=
bsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot =
is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (co=
nnect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe=
 wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has =
an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figu=
ring out where the short is.
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Theo
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <hr id=3D"m_-7690374029801399408zwchr">=20
      <div>
       <strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">bobwanty@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@sha=
w.ca" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:atwittsend=
@verizon.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">atwitt=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "tigers" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
       <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Thanks for the responses.=20
        <div>=20
         <div>
          Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2=
 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goe=
s to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&=
nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original sin=
ce they are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 purple wires when I=
 only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires,=
 one to each horn.
         </div>=20
        </div>=20
        <div>
         So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to th=
e horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring=
 wire to the other horn?
        </div>=20
       </div>=20
       <br>=20
       <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
        <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
         On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
        </div>=20
        <blockquote>=20
         <div dir=3D"auto">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay wh=
ere they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding conta=
ct.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps ea=
ch. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring c=
ontact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Theo
           <br>=20
           <blockquote>
            On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
            <br>
            <br>
           </blockquote>=20
          </div>=20
          <blockquote>=20
           <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
            <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at=
 said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (complet=
ing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through =
the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay=
 to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specif=
ics but MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
            <p>&nbsp;Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the ho=
use. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you an=
d the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This =
then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoul=
der releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
            </div>=20
            <blockquote>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my =
15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. S=
tarting at the horns there is one on&nbsp; each side with a jumper wire bet=
ween the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire=
 on each side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not=
 hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire fro=
m the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off=
 the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot&n=
bsp; but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the d=
ash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
              <div>
               It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the rin=
g contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wi=
ring harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.
               <br>=20
               <div>
                The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited kno=
wledge on this will probably start a fire.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather not rewi=
re the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://syst=
em.to" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">syst=
em.to</a> its original splendor.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Bob&nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                <br>=20
                <div>
                 &nbsp;&nbsp;
                </div>=20
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20
             <pre>_______________________________________________

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>

w noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a=
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" rel=3D"noopener n=
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llow noopener noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</=
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/a>

</pre>=20
            </blockquote>=20
           </div>=20
          </blockquote>=20
         </div> _______________________________________________
         <br>
         <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener nofol=
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         <br>
         <br>
         <br>
        </blockquote>=20
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
     </div>=20
    </div>=20
   </blockquote> _______________________________________________
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  </blockquote>
 </div>
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[email-masked]

--===============2290998892511247836==--

---

From: Theo Smit via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 20:15:05 -0600

--===============6721568190481542239==
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_272C87E7-EAD7-41F5-98D1-541573F34D42"

--Apple-Mail=_272C87E7-EAD7-41F5-98D1-541573F34D42
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

Attached is a wiring diagram image suitable for wiring in a typical =
Bosch style cube relay (with included fuse), such as is sold through =
this Amazon listing:
=
https://www.amazon.com/APIELE-Relay-Normally-Harness-Socket/dp/B0B1TF3DTV/=
ref=3Dsr_1_43?crid=3D337OR55GZFBVN&keywords=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse&q=
id=3D1695689958&sprefix=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse%2Caps%2C151&sr=3D8-43=
&th=3D1=EF=BF=BC
APIELE 4 Pin Relay 12V 40A Relay with 30A Fuse DC SPST Fused Relay =
Normally Open 1NO with 14 AWG Harness Socket for Car Truck Motor
amazon.com

This relay includes a connecting socket with color coded wires. I=E2=80=99=
ve indicated the color as well as the Bosch standard reference numbers =
on the diagram.

The fuse is there to protect the horn wiring. The relay is typically =
beefy enough to pass 30 amps, but the OEM purple wires are going to melt =
before the OEM 35 amp fuse blows if you ever had a dead short in the =
horn circuit. Since the horns themselves should not draw more than about =
6 amps, it should be fine to put a 15 amp fuse in the relay=E2=80=99s =
fuse holder. That will ensure that if you have a short (at least =
downstream of the fuse=E2=80=A6) it will blow the fuse before it =
destroys your wiring.

If you run the circuit as shown, the =E2=80=98hot=E2=80=99 side of the =
relay output (red wire) can drive either the horns you currently have, =
with a built-in ground, or they could drive the OEM or the Hella horns =
if you then wire the other terminal of each horn to ground as shown in =
the diagram.

Let me know if you have any questions.

=EF=BF=BC

> On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Based on the review info on Summit, the Hella horns have the same =
wiring as the OEM Clear Hooters so you should be good to go. Another =
source I found indicated the power consumption is 72W so that should be =
6A at 12V, the same as OEM also. You would still be best off with =
running these through a relay.
>=20
> https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html
>=20
> Cc: "Gary" <[email-masked]>, "Theo Smit" <[email-masked]>, =
"tigers" <[email-masked]>
> I found the original horns in a box but they did not work. I might =
give the Hellas a try
> I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was =
crumbling.  I saved them for a future project.  What I installed in my =
car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.  You can see them at =
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801.  They come with a =
relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original =
wiring.  I didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it.  I =
tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they =
didn't seem to be as loud after I installed them.  So I'm guessing that =
if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them and =
have a louder sound.
> Have Fun,
> Joe Brown
>=20
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD =
>> Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals =
that are both 12V.
>> There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I =
could remember.
>> I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.  =
Unlike Theo, I couldn't
>> fans you already have.
>> Gary W.
>> =20
>> =20
>> On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty <[email-masked] =
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The =
relay idea sounds good.
>> Thanks for the help.
>> Bob
>>=20
>> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <[email-masked] =
>>=20
>> Hi Bob,
>> =20
>> The wiring diagram here: =
http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows =
two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple =
with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no =
separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that =
then it was added by a previous owner.
>> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the =
hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is =
not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure =
very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn =
terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). =
That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is.
>> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L =
cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and =
the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn =
body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, =
connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if =
the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on =
the steering wheel).=20
>> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot =
is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly =
(connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the =
purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and =
it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed =
by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is.
>> =20
>> Theo
>> =20
>> Cc: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked] =
>> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 =
purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire =
goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire =
to the  horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be =
original since they are grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple =
wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only =
shows two wires, one to each horn.
>> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the =
horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn =
ring wire to the other horn?
>> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where =
they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding =
contact.=20
>> =20
>> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. =
It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring =
contact does not have to pass that much current.=20
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers =
>>=20
>> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said =
relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing =
the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through =
the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the =
relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for =
Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way.
>>=20
>>  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When =
someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the =
switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This =
then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your =
shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.
>> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year =
restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. =
Starting at the horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire =
between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, =
one wire on each side is hot  and wired to the fuse box the second wire =
is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one =
wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle =
contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact =
should be hot  but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the =
harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.
>> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact =
then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring =
harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking.=20
>> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on =
this will probably start a fire.
>> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits =
so hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to <http://system.to/> its =
original splendor.
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive
>> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive=20
>> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive=20
>> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=20
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
http://autox.team.net/archive
>> Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail=_272C87E7-EAD7-41F5-98D1-541573F34D42
	type="text/html";
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Attached is a =
wiring diagram image suitable for wiring in a typical Bosch style cube =
relay (with included fuse), such as is sold through this Amazon =
listing:<div><div style=3D"display: block;"><div =
style=3D"-webkit-user-select: all; -webkit-user-drag: element; display: =
inline-block;" class=3D"apple-rich-link" draggable=3D"true" role=3D"link" =
data-url=3D"https://www.amazon.com/APIELE-Relay-Normally-Harness-Socket/dp=
/B0B1TF3DTV/ref=3Dsr_1_43?crid=3D337OR55GZFBVN&amp;keywords=3Dcube%2Brelay=
%2Bwith%2Bfuse&amp;qid=3D1695689958&amp;sprefix=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfu=
se%2Caps%2C151&amp;sr=3D8-43&amp;th=3D1"><a =
style=3D"border-radius:10px;font-family:-apple-system, Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;display:block;-webkit-user-select:none;width:300px;user-select:=
none;-webkit-user-modify:read-only;user-modify:read-only;overflow:hidden;t=
ext-decoration:none;" class=3D"lp-rich-link" rel=3D"nofollow" =
href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/APIELE-Relay-Normally-Harness-Socket/dp/B0B=
1TF3DTV/ref=3Dsr_1_43?crid=3D337OR55GZFBVN&amp;keywords=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bw=
ith%2Bfuse&amp;qid=3D1695689958&amp;sprefix=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse%2=
Caps%2C151&amp;sr=3D8-43&amp;th=3D1" dir=3D"ltr" role=3D"button" =
draggable=3D"false" width=3D"300"><table =
style=3D"table-layout:fixed;border-collapse:collapse;width:300px;backgroun=
d-color:#E5E6E9;font-family:-apple-system, Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"lp-rich-link-emailBaseTable" cellpadding=3D"0" =
cellspacing=3D"0" border=3D"0" width=3D"300"><tbody><tr><td =
vertical-align=3D"center" align=3D"center"><img =
style=3D"width:300px;filter:brightness(0.97);height:157px;" width=3D"300" =
height=3D"157" draggable=3D"false" class=3D"lp-rich-link-mediaImage" =
alt=3D"31gmQd+9goL._SR600,315_PIWhiteStrip,BottomLeft,0,35_PIStarRatingFOU=
RANDHALF,BottomLeft,360,-6_SR600,315_ZA34,445,290,400,400,AmazonEmberBold,=
12,4,0,0,5_SCLZZZZZZZ_FMpng_BG255,255,255.jpg" =
src=3D"cid:9AEE4752-B6C0-422E-BDA4-0BCCFFAFB523"></td></tr><tr><td =
vertical-align=3D"center"><table bgcolor=3D"#E5E6E9" cellpadding=3D"0" =
cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"300" style=3D"font-family:-apple-system, =
Helvetica, Arial, =
sans-serif;table-layout:fixed;background-color:rgba(229, 230, 233, 1);" =
class=3D"lp-rich-link-captionBar"><tbody><tr><td style=3D"padding:8px =
0px 8px 0px;" class=3D"lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStackItem"><div =
style=3D"max-width:100%;margin:0px 16px 0px 16px;overflow:hidden;" =
class=3D"lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStack"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-weight:500;font-size:12px;overflow:hidd=
en;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left;" =
class=3D"lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStack-topCaption-leading"><a =
rel=3D"nofollow" =
href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/APIELE-Relay-Normally-Harness-Socket/dp/B0B=
1TF3DTV/ref=3Dsr_1_43?crid=3D337OR55GZFBVN&amp;keywords=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bw=
ith%2Bfuse&amp;qid=3D1695689958&amp;sprefix=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse%2=
Caps%2C151&amp;sr=3D8-43&amp;th=3D1" style=3D"text-decoration: none" =
draggable=3D"false"><font color=3D"#272727" style=3D"color: rgba(0, 0, =
0, 0.847059);">APIELE 4 Pin Relay 12V 40A Relay with 30A Fuse DC SPST =
Fused Relay Normally Open 1NO with 14 AWG Harness Socket for Car Truck =
Motor</font></a></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-weight:400;font-size:11px;overflow:hidd=
en;text-overflow:ellipsis;text-align:left;" =
class=3D"lp-rich-link-captionBar-textStack-bottomCaption-leading"><a =
rel=3D"nofollow" =
href=3D"https://www.amazon.com/APIELE-Relay-Normally-Harness-Socket/dp/B0B=
1TF3DTV/ref=3Dsr_1_43?crid=3D337OR55GZFBVN&amp;keywords=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bw=
ith%2Bfuse&amp;qid=3D1695689958&amp;sprefix=3Dcube%2Brelay%2Bwith%2Bfuse%2=
Caps%2C151&amp;sr=3D8-43&amp;th=3D1" style=3D"text-decoration: none" =
draggable=3D"false"><font color=3D"#808080" style=3D"color: rgba(0, 0, =
0, =
0.498039);">amazon.com</font></a></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></t=
d></tr></tbody></table></a></div></div><div style=3D"display: =
block;"><br></div><div style=3D"display: block;">This relay includes a =
connecting socket with color coded wires. I=E2=80=99ve indicated the =
color as well as the Bosch standard reference numbers on the =
diagram.</div><div style=3D"display: block;"><br></div><div>The fuse is =
there to protect the horn wiring. The relay is typically beefy enough to =
pass 30 amps, but the OEM purple wires are going to melt before the OEM =
35 amp fuse blows if you ever had a dead short in the horn circuit. =
Since the horns themselves should not draw more than about 6 amps, it =
should be fine to put a 15 amp fuse in the relay=E2=80=99s fuse holder. =
That will ensure that if you have a short (at least downstream of the =
fuse=E2=80=A6) it will blow the fuse before it destroys your =
wiring.</div><div><br></div><div>If you run the circuit as shown, the =
=E2=80=98hot=E2=80=99 side of the relay output (red wire) can drive =
either the horns you currently have, with a built-in ground, or they =
could drive the OEM or the Hella horns if you then wire the other =
terminal of each horn to ground as shown in the =
diagram.</div><div><br></div><div>Let me know if you have any =
questions.</div><br><div><img =
src=3D"cid:CE3EDC19-5518-4FA3-AD05-491A452FB422" =
alt=3D"Tiger-horn-relay.png"><br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:28 PM, Theo Smit =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><div style=3D"font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>Based on the review =
info on Summit, the Hella horns have the same wiring as the OEM Clear =
Hooters so you should be good to go. Another source I found indicated =
the power consumption is 72W so that should be 6A at 12V, the same as =
OEM also. You would still be best off with running these through a =
relay.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div><a =
href=3D"https://www.hella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html">https://www.h=
ella.com/MicroSite/horns/en/index.html</a><br =
data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>On =
Hella's site you can hear what they sound like.</div><div><br =
data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Theo</div><hr =
id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__"><div =
data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Bob Wanty" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Joe Brown" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"Gary" =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "Theo Smit" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, =
"tigers" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, September =
25, 2023 3:33:19 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Tigers] Horn =
Wiring<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I found the original horns in a box =
but they did not work. I might give the Hellas a try</div><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote>On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Joe Brown =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; =
wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr">I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring =
inside was crumbling.&nbsp; I saved them for a future project.&nbsp; =
What I installed in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.&nbsp; =
You can see them at&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer">https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801</a>.&nbsp; =
They come with a relay and they mount up in the original locations with =
the original wiring.&nbsp; I didn't use the relay but I might go back =
and add it.&nbsp; I tested them before I installed them and they were =
really loud but they didn't seem to be as loud after I installed =
them.&nbsp; So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use the relay I =
can get more current to them and have a louder sound.<br><div>Have =
Fun,</div><div>Joe Brown</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM =
GARY WINBLAD &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 );padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
  =20
=20
 <div>
  <div>
   Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals =
that are both 12V.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I =
could remember.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for =
him.&nbsp; Unlike Theo, I couldn't
  </div>=20
  <div>
   see any way to fix that one.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that =
still work) or add a relay for the
  </div>=20
  <div>
   fans you already have.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Gary W.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div>
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <blockquote>=20
   <div>
    On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow =
noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. =
The relay idea sounds good.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Thanks for the help.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Bob
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote>
     On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote>=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: =
10pt;">=20
      <div>
       Hi Bob,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       The wiring diagram here: <a =
href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer">http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.=
jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and =
two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. =
There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car =
has that then it was added by a previous owner.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just =
the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, =
which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can =
measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the =
two horn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame =
mount). That would help you isolate where the wiring problem is.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an =
L cast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil =
and the points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the =
horn body itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, =
connecting one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if =
the other wire is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on =
the steering wheel).&nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the =
hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works =
properly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the =
purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and =
it's the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed =
by opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is.
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Theo
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <hr id=3D"m_-7690374029801399408zwchr">=20
      <div>
       <strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow =
noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow =
noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, "tigers" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow =
noopener noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
       <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Thanks for the responses.=20
        <div>=20
         <div>
          Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There =
are 2 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other =
wire goes to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot =
wire to the&nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not =
be original since they are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 =
purple wires when I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram =
only shows two wires, one to each horn.
         </div>=20
        </div>=20
        <div>
         So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to =
the horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn =
ring wire to the other horn?
        </div>=20
       </div>=20
       <br>=20
       <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
        <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
         On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
        </div>=20
        <blockquote>=20
         <div dir=3D"auto">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay =
where they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding =
contact.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps =
each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the =
ring contact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Theo
           <br>=20
           <blockquote>
            On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener =
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
            <br>
            <br>
           </blockquote>=20
          </div>=20
          <blockquote>=20
           <div dir=3D"ltr"><p>I believe most horns have a relay and the =
12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it =
GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points =
connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the =
horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me =
to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that =
way.</p><p>&nbsp;Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the =
house. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) =
you and the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on =
position. This then send power to the light (horn). When the person =
pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the switch off. Hope that =
helps.</p>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
            </div>=20
            <blockquote>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since =
my 15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and =
horns. Starting at the horns there is one on&nbsp; each side with a =
jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to =
each horn, one wire on each side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the fuse box =
the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from =
SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second wire =
for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the =
circle contact should be hot&nbsp; but I don't seem to have a connector =
for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the =
horn ring.=20
              <div>
               It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the =
ring contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but =
the wiring harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.
               <br>=20
               <div>
                The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited =
knowledge on this will probably start a fire.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather not =
rewire the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a =
href=3D"http://system.to/" rel=3D"noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">system.to</a> its original splendor.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Bob&nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                <br>=20
                <div>
                 &nbsp;&nbsp;
                </div>=20
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20
             <pre>_______________________________________________

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          </blockquote>=20
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