Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring

From: Bob Wanty <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 23:08:14 -0400

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My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay i=
dea sounds good.
Thanks for the help.
Bob

> On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Bob,
>=20
> The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/M=
KIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts,=
 and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. T=
here is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has t=
hat then it was added by a previous owner.
> <Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png>
>=20
> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot sid=
e, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not how it=
's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low resist=
ances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and from e=
ach terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you isol=
ate where the wiring problem is.
> <Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png>
> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast in=
to the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points=
) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body itself. T=
he way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the t=
erminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connect=
ed (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).=20
>=20
> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is con=
nected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (connect t=
he purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wire to=
 the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an intern=
al short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring out w=
here the short is.
>=20
> Theo
>=20
> From: "Bob Wanty" <[email-masked]>
> To: "Theo Smit" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked]>, "tigers" <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
>=20
> Thanks for the responses.
> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple w=
ires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to groun=
d when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the  horn it wo=
rks fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are groun=
ded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections f=
or two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.
> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, u=
se the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to t=
he other horn?
>=20
>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>=20
>> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they c=
ould instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.=20
>>=20
>> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It wo=
uld be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contact doe=
s not have to pass that much current.=20
>> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.=20
>>=20
>> Theo
>> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>=
 wrote:
>>=20
>> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. W=
hen the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit=
) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V+ to the h=
orns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to activate it. S=
orry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars f=
unction that way.
>>=20
>>  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone p=
resses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act lik=
e the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to th=
e light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn t=
he switch off. Hope that helps.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
>> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year rest=
ore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Starting at th=
e horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire between the two horns,=
 there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot=
  and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I instal=
led a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn r=
ing and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think t=
he wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I don't seem to have a con=
nector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the h=
orn ring.
>> It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact the=
n a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness d=
oes not seem to follow that way of thinking.
>> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this=
 will probably start a fire.
>> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so h=
opefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Bob=20
>> =20
>>=20
>>  =20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwittsend@veri=
zon.net
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>>=20
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archi=
ve
>>=20
>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty@gmail.=
com
>>=20
>>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">My h=
orns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The relay idea=
 sounds good.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the help.</div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Bob</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 24, 2023, a=
t 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div style=3D"font-famil=
y: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: #000000"><div>Hi Bo=
b,</div><div><br></div><div>The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tiger=
sunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" data-mce-href=3D"http=
://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg">http://tigers=
united.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid pur=
ple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wi=
res that are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire fro=
m one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previou=
s owner.</div><div><div>&lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;</div=
></div><div><br></div><div>But, if the horns already start to sound when you=
 connect just the hot side, then there is an internal short in at least one h=
orn, which is not how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can=
 measure very low resistances then you can take measurements across the two h=
orn terminals and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). T=
hat would help you isolate where the wiring problem is.</div><div><div>&lt;S=
creenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;</div></div><div>This is a sketch o=
f the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast into the bell. The two=
 terminals connect (through the wire coil and the points) to each other, but=
 there should be no connection to the horn body itself. The way you're descr=
ibing the operation of your horns, connecting one of the terminals to hot ca=
uses the horn to go, even if the other wire is not connected (or, without pu=
shing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&nbsp;</div><div><br data-mce-bog=
us=3D"1"></div><div>Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when o=
nly the hot is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works p=
roperly (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-bl=
ack-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one t=
hat has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up a=
nd figuring out where the short is.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div=
><div>Theo</div><div><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__">=
<div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Bob Wanty" &lt;bobwanty@gmail=
.com&gt;<br><b>To: </b>"Theo Smit" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>"Tom W=
itt" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "tigers" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<=
br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re:=
 [Tigers] Horn Wiring</div><div><br></div><div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT_=
_"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks for the responses.<div><div>Everything is wired t=
o the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple wires to each horn, one i=
s hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to ground when the horn ring is p=
ressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks=
. So the horns must not be original since they are grounded to the frame.&nb=
sp; I still have 4 purple wires when I only have connections for two and the=
 wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each horn.</div></div><div>So s=
hould I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn, use th=
e existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire to the ot=
her horn?</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer=
" data-mce-href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-=
left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D=
"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Correct except that Roote=
s (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they could instead pass all the c=
urrent through a finicky sliding contact.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about thre=
e amps each. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that th=
e ring contact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D=
"ltr">If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Theo<br><blockquote>On Sep 23, 2023, a=
t 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-mce-href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blo=
ckquote></div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><p>I believe most horns have a re=
lay and the 12v+ is already at said relay. When the horn ring makes contact i=
t GROUNDS the relay (completing the circuit) and the relay contact points co=
nnect. That passes through the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn rin=
g simply grounds the relay to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check th=
e manual for Tiger specifics but MOST cars function that way.</p><p>&nbsp;Th=
ink of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone presse=
s you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act like the=
 relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power to the lig=
ht (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases you turn the s=
witch off. Hope that helps.</p><div><br></div><div>On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Rob=
ert Wanty wrote:</div><blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr">I am working on wiring th=
e horns for the first time since my 15 year restore. I am working with the o=
riginal wiring harness and horns. Starting at the horns there is one on&nbsp=
; each side with a jumper wire between the two horns, there are 2 purple wir=
es leading to each horn, one wire on each side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the=
 fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded. I installed a new horn rin=
g from SS and have one wire from the contact on the horn ring and a second w=
ire for the circle contact off the signal switch, I think the wire for the c=
ircle contact should be hot&nbsp; but I don't seem to have a connector for i=
t in the harness under the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.<d=
iv>It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring contact the=
n a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness d=
oes not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.<br><div>The wiring diagram=
 is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this will probably start a=
 fire.</div><div>Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather not rewi=
re the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://syste=
m.to" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-mce-href=3D=
"http://system.to">system.to</a> its original splendor.</div><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>Bob&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br><div>&nbsp;&nbs=
p;</div></div></div></div><br><fieldset></fieldset><pre>____________________=
___________________________

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</pre></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>________________________________=
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---

From: GARY WINBLAD <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 10:46:03 -0400 (EDT)

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Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals that =
are both 12V.
There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could r=
emember.
I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
=20
I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.  Unlike T=
heo, I couldn't
see any way to fix that one.
=20
Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still wor=
k) or add a relay for the
fans you already have.
Gary W.
=20
=20

> On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty <[email-masked]> wrote:
> =20
> =20
> =20
> My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The rel=
ay idea sounds good.
> > The wiring diagram here: http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-image=
s/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 vo=
lts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring connecti=
ons. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your c=
ar has that then it was added by a previous owner.
> > But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot =
side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not ho=
w it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low r=
esistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and=
 from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help =
you isolate where the wiring problem is.
> > This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast=
 into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the po=
ints) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body its=
elf. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one =
of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is no=
t connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).=20
> > =20
> > Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is =
connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (conne=
ct the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wi=
re to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an =
internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figurin=
g out where the short is.
> > =20
> > Theo
> > =20
> >=20
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > Cc: "Tom Witt" <[email-masked]>, "tigers" <[email-masked]=
t>
> > Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purpl=
e wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to g=
round when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the  horn =
it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they are=
 grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires when I only have conne=
ctions for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to each hor=
n.
> > So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the hor=
n, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire=
 to the other horn?
> >=20
> > On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit <[email-masked] mailto=
:[email-masked]> wrote:
> >=20
> > > =20
> > > Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where t=
hey could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.=
=20
> > > =20
> > > Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. I=
t would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contac=
t does not have to pass that much current.=20
> > > > On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]=
m.net mailto:[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said r=
elay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the=
 circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12V=
+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to act=
ivate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but=
 MOST cars function that way.
> > > >=20
> > > >  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When so=
meone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch=
 act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send po=
wer to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases=
 you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.
> > > > > I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 y=
ear restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Start=
ing at the horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire between the =
two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each =
side is hot  and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or ground=
ed. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact =
on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal sw=
itch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I don't se=
em to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for=
 the wire to the horn ring.
> > > > > It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring con=
tact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring =
harness does not seem to follow that way of thinking.
> > > > > The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge=
 on this will probably start a fire.
> > > > > Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circ=
uits so hopefully I can restore the Lucashttp://system.to its original sple=
ndor.
> > > > > [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.n=
et/archive
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwitts=
[email-masked]
> > > [email-masked] mailto:[email-masked]
> > >=20
> > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/a=
rchive
> > >=20
> > > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/bobwanty@gm=
ail.com
ve
>=20
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad@com=
cast.net

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<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head>=20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
 </head>
 <body>
  <div>
   Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals th=
at are both 12V.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I coul=
d remember.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.&nbsp; =
Unlike Theo, I couldn't
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   see any way to fix that one.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still =
work) or add a relay for the
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   fans you already have.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   Gary W.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
   <div>
    On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The r=
elay idea sounds good.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Thanks for the help.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Bob
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10=
pt; color: #000000;">=20
      <div>
       Hi Bob,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resource=
s/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg">http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt=
-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires to the horns fee=
ding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn rin=
g connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other;=
 if your car has that then it was added by a previous owner.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the h=
ot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not=
 how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very lo=
w resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals =
and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would he=
lp you isolate where the wiring problem is.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L c=
ast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the=
 points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body =
itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting o=
ne of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is=
 not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&n=
bsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot =
is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (co=
nnect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe=
 wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has =
an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figu=
ring out where the short is.
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Theo
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__">=20
      <div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__">
       <strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
       <br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
       <br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, =
"tigers" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
       <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
       <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">=20
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Thanks for the responses.=20
        <div>=20
         <div>
          Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2=
 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goe=
s to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&=
nbsp; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original sin=
ce they are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 purple wires when I=
 only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires,=
 one to each horn.
         </div>=20
        </div>=20
        <div>
         So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to th=
e horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring=
 wire to the other horn?
        </div>=20
       </div>=20
       <br>=20
       <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
        <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
         On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:
        </div>=20
        <blockquote>=20
         <div dir=3D"auto">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay wh=
ere they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding conta=
ct.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps ea=
ch. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring c=
ontact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Theo
           <br>=20
           <blockquote>
            On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">tigers=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
            <br>
            <br>
           </blockquote>=20
          </div>=20
          <blockquote>=20
           <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
            <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at=
 said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (complet=
ing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through =
the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay=
 to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specif=
ics but MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
            <p>&nbsp;Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the ho=
use. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you an=
d the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This =
then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoul=
der releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
            </div>=20
            <blockquote>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my =
15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. S=
tarting at the horns there is one on&nbsp; each side with a jumper wire bet=
ween the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire=
 on each side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not=
 hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire fro=
m the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off=
 the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot&n=
bsp; but I don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the d=
ash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
              <div>
               It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the rin=
g contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wi=
ring harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.
               <br>=20
               <div>
                The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited kno=
wledge on this will probably start a fire.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather not rewi=
re the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://syst=
em.to" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">system.to</a> its original splend=
or.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Bob&nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                <br>=20
                <div>
                 &nbsp;&nbsp;
                </div>=20
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20
             <pre>_______________________________________________

<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener"=
>[email-masked]</a>

=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive</a>

Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/atwitt=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.team.net/=
mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a>

</pre>=20
            </blockquote>=20
           </div>=20
          </blockquote>=20
         </div> _______________________________________________
         <br>
         <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>
         <br>
         <br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
         <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" targ=
et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive</a>
         <br>
         <br>Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/=
tigers/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">http://autox.=
team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a>
         <br>
         <br>
         <br>
        </blockquote>=20
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
     </div>=20
    </div>=20
   </blockquote> _______________________________________________
   <br>
   <br>[email-masked]
   <br>
   <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
   <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/=
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 </body>
</html>
------=_Part_64084_341726096.1695653163809--

--===============4533086608460390620==
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Content-Disposition: inline

[email-masked]

--===============4533086608460390620==--

---

From: Joe Brown <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:48:00 -0500

--===============4179410303137924673==

--000000000000a191fa060635137e
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring inside was
crumbling.  I saved them for a future project.  What I installed in my car
was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.  You can see them at
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801.  They come with a relay
and they mount up in the original locations with the original wiring.  I
didn't use the relay but I might go back and add it.  I tested them before
I installed them and they were really loud but they didn't seem to be as
loud after I installed them.  So I'm guessing that if I rewire them and use
the relay I can get more current to them and have a louder sound.

Have Fun,
Joe Brown

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD <[email-masked]=
et>
wrote:

> Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals tha=
t
> are both 12V.
> There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could
> remember.
> I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.  Unlike
> Theo, I couldn't
> Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still
> My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The
> relay idea sounds good.
> Thanks for the help.
> Bob
>
> The wiring diagram here:
> http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg shows
> two solid purple wires to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with
> black stripe wires that are the horn ring connections. There is no separa=
te
> jumper wire from one horn to the other; if your car has that then it was
> added by a previous owner.
> But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the hot
> side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not
> how it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very l=
ow
> resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals
> and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would
> help you isolate where the wiring problem is.
> This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L cast
> into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the
> points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body
> itself. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting
> one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire
> is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering
> wheel).
>
> Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot is
> connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly
> (connect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the
> purple-with-black-stripe wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it=
's
> the other one that has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by
> opening the horn up and figuring out where the short is.
>
> Theo
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Bob Wanty" <[email-masked]>
> *To: *"Theo Smit" <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *"Tom Witt" <[email-masked]>, "tigers" <[email-masked]=
t>
>
> *Sent: *Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
>
> Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 purple
> wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes to
> ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the  ho=
rn
> it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since they a=
re
> grounded to the frame.  I still have 4 purple wires when I only have
> connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to
> each horn.
> So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the horn,
> use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring wire =
to
> the other horn?
> Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay where they
> could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact.
>
> Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps each. It
> would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring contac=
t
> does not have to pass that much current.
> If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.
>
> Theo
>
> On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
>
> I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at said relay.
> When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing the
> circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 12=
V+
> to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to
> activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specific=
s
> but MOST cars function that way.
>
>  Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the house. When someone
> presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and the switch act
> like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then send power
> to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder releases y=
ou
> turn the switch off. Hope that helps.
>
> I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 15 year
> restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Startin=
g
> at the horns there is one on  each side with a jumper wire between the tw=
o
> horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on each si=
de
> is hot  and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot or grounded.=
 I
> installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the contact on t=
he
> horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the signal switch,=
 I
> think the wire for the circle contact should be hot  but I don't seem to
> have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and nothing for the
> wire to the horn ring.
n
> a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiring harness
> does not seem to follow that way of thinking.
> The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited knowledge on this
> Any help would be appreciated, I would rather not rewire the circuits so
> hopefully I can restore the Lucas system.to its original splendor.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
ve
zon.net
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--000000000000a191fa060635137e
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I attempted to repair my original horns but the wiring ins=
ide was crumbling.=C2=A0 I saved them for a future project.=C2=A0 What I in=
stalled in my car was a pair of Hella dual trumpet horns.=C2=A0 You can see=
 them at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801">=
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hla-007424801</a>.=C2=A0 They come with =
a relay and they mount up in the original locations with the original wirin=
g.=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t use the relay but I might go back and add it.=C2=A0 I=
 tested them before I installed them and they were really loud but they did=
n&#39;t seem to be as loud after I installed them.=C2=A0 So I&#39;m guessin=
g that if I rewire them and use the relay I can get more current to them an=
d have a louder sound.<div><br></div><div>Have Fun,</div><div>Joe Brown</di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 3:21=E2=80=AFPM GARY WINBLAD &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>

 =20
  =20
=20
 <div>
  <div>
   Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals th=
at are both 12V.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I coul=
d remember.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can&#39;t find them.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   =C2=A0
  </div>=20
  <div>
   I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.=C2=A0 =
Unlike Theo, I couldn&#39;t
  </div>=20
  <div>
   see any way to fix that one.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   =C2=A0
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still =
work) or add a relay for the
  </div>=20
  <div>
   fans you already have.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   Gary W.
  </div>=20
  <div>
   =C2=A0
  </div>=20
  <div>
   =C2=A0
  </div>=20
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
   <div>
    On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bobwanty@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    =C2=A0
   </div>=20
   <div>
    =C2=A0
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    =C2=A0
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The r=
elay idea sounds good.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Thanks for the help.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Bob
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsmit@sha=
w.ca" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)">=20
      <div>
       Hi Bob,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       =C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <div>
       The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resource=
s/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg" target=3D"_blank">http://tigersunited.co=
m/resources/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wire=
s to the horns feeding 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires tha=
t are the horn ring connections. There is no separate jumper wire from one =
horn to the other; if your car has that then it was added by a previous own=
er.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       =C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <div>
       But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the h=
ot side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not=
 how it&#39;s intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure ver=
y low resistances then you can take measurements across the two horn termin=
als and from each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That woul=
d help you isolate where the wiring problem is.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L c=
ast into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the=
 points) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body =
itself. The way you&#39;re describing the operation of your horns, connecti=
ng one of the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wir=
e is not connected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel=
).=C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <div>
       =C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot =
is connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (co=
nnect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe=
 wire to the other) then that horn is fine and it&#39;s the other one that =
has an internal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and =
figuring out where the short is.
      </div>=20
      <div>
       =C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Theo
      </div>=20
      <div>
       =C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <hr id=3D"m_-7690374029801399408zwchr">=20
      <div>
       <strong>From: </strong>&quot;Bob Wanty&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:b=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>To: </strong>&quot;Theo Smit&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Cc: </strong>&quot;Tom Witt&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, &=
quot;tigers&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;
       <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
       <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
      </div>=20
      <div>
       =C2=A0
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Thanks for the responses.=20
        <div>=20
         <div>
          Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2=
 purple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goe=
s to ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the=
=C2=A0 horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original si=
nce they are grounded to the frame.=C2=A0 I still have 4 purple wires when =
I only have connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires=
, one to each horn.
         </div>=20
        </div>=20
        <div>
         So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to th=
e horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring=
 wire to the other horn?
        </div>=20
       </div>=20
       <br>=20
       <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
        <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
         On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:
        </div>=20
        <blockquote>=20
         <div dir=3D"auto">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           =C2=A0
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay wh=
ere they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding conta=
ct.=C2=A0
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           =C2=A0
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps ea=
ch. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring c=
ontact does not have to pass that much current.=C2=A0
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.=C2=A0
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           =C2=A0
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Theo
           <br>=20
           <blockquote>
            On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">tigers=
@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
            <br>
            <br>
           </blockquote>=20
          </div>=20
          <blockquote>=20
           <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
            <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at=
 said relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (complet=
ing the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through =
the 12V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay=
 to activate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specif=
ics but MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
            <p>=C2=A0Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the ho=
use. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you an=
d the switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This =
then send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoul=
der releases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
            <div>
             =C2=A0
            </div>=20
            <div>
             On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
            </div>=20
            <blockquote>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my =
15 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. S=
tarting at the horns there is one on=C2=A0 each side with a jumper wire bet=
ween the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire=
 on each side is hot=C2=A0 and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not=
 hot or grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire fro=
m the contact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off=
 the signal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot=
=C2=A0 but I don&#39;t seem to have a connector for it in the harness under=
 the dash and nothing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
              <div>
               It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the rin=
g contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wi=
ring harness does not seem to follow=C2=A0that way of thinking.
               <br>=20
               <div>
                The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited kno=
wledge on this will probably start a fire.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Any help would be=C2=A0appreciated, I would rather not rewi=
re the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://syst=
em.to" rel=3D"noopener" target=3D"_blank">system.to</a> its original splend=
or.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                =C2=A0
               </div>=20
               <div>
                =C2=A0
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Bob=C2=A0
               </div>=20
               <div>
                =C2=A0
               </div>=20
               <div>
                <br>=20
                <div>
                 =C2=A0=C2=A0
                </div>=20
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20
             <pre>_______________________________________________

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</pre>=20
            </blockquote>=20
           </div>=20
          </blockquote>=20
         </div> _______________________________________________
         <br>
         <br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noopener" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>
         <br>
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         <br>
         <br>
         <br>
        </blockquote>=20
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
     </div>=20
    </div>=20
   </blockquote> _______________________________________________
   <br>
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--000000000000a191fa060635137e--

--===============4179410303137924673==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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[email-masked]

--===============4179410303137924673==--

---

From: Allan Ballard <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 17:09:41 -0400

--===============2809266803337438438==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-1B4526BB-639F-4791-A3ED-19E121178AED
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">New or period correct air horns provide ano=
ther option.<div><br></div><div>The louder the better.<br><div><br></div><di=
v>Allan Ballard</div><div>-Atlanta (Mk1a Tiger with period correct air horns=
)<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 25, 2023, at 4:18 PM, GARY WINBLAD &lt;garywinb=
[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

 =20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
=20
=20
  <div>
   Most all aftermarket horns have only one terminal or have 2 terminals tha=
t are both 12V.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   There was only one brand that Paul Reisentz found to use.. I wish I could=
 remember.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   I think it was SPAL (the fan guys) but googling I can't find them.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   I remember because I dissected a defective original horn for him.&nbsp; U=
nlike Theo, I couldn't
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   see any way to fix that one.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   Bob, you will probably need to look for some original horns (that still w=
ork) or add a relay for the
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   fans you already have.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   Gary W.
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <div class=3D"default-style">
   &nbsp;
  </div>=20
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
   <div>
    On 09/24/2023 8:08 PM PDT Bob Wanty &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div>
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    &nbsp;
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    My horns have a single terminal so I will get two terminal horns. The re=
lay idea sounds good.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Thanks for the help.
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    Bob
   </div>=20
   <div dir=3D"ltr">
    <br>=20
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     On Sep 24, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Theo Smit &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
     <br>
     <br>
    </blockquote>=20
   </div>=20
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20
    <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
     <div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10p=
t; color: #000000;">=20
      <div>
       Hi Bob,
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       The wiring diagram here: <a href=3D"http://tigersunited.com/resources=
/wsm/tt-images/MKIABIGwiring.jpg">http://tigersunited.com/resources/wsm/tt-i=
mages/MKIABIGwiring.jpg</a> shows two solid purple wires to the horns feedin=
g 12 volts, and two purple with black stripe wires that are the horn ring co=
nnections. There is no separate jumper wire from one horn to the other; if y=
our car has that then it was added by a previous owner.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.34.26 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       But, if the horns already start to sound when you connect just the ho=
t side, then there is an internal short in at least one horn, which is not h=
ow it's intended to be. if you have an ohm-meter that can measure very low r=
esistances then you can take measurements across the two horn terminals and f=
rom each terminal to the horn body (or the frame mount). That would help you=
 isolate where the wiring problem is.
      </div>=20
      <div>=20
       <div>
        &lt;Screenshot 2023-09-24 at 7.38.18 PM.png&gt;
       </div>=20
      </div>=20
      <div>
       This is a sketch of the high-tone horn. The low-tone horn has an L ca=
st into the bell. The two terminals connect (through the wire coil and the p=
oints) to each other, but there should be no connection to the horn body its=
elf. The way you're describing the operation of your horns, connecting one o=
f the terminals to hot causes the horn to go, even if the other wire is not c=
onnected (or, without pushing the horn ring on the steering wheel).&nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Do both horns work the same way (i.e. they go off when only the hot i=
s connected) or does only one horn do that? If one horn works properly (conn=
ect the purple wire to one terminal, connect the purple-with-black-stripe wi=
re to the other) then that horn is fine and it's the other one that has an i=
nternal short. It can probably be fixed by opening the horn up and figuring o=
ut where the short is.
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div>
       Theo
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D"__DIVIDER__">=20
      <div data-marker=3D"__HEADERS__">
       <strong>From: </strong>"Bob Wanty" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
       <br><strong>To: </strong>"Theo Smit" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
       <br><strong>Cc: </strong>"Tom Witt" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;, "=
tigers" &lt;[email-masked]&gt;
       <br><strong>Sent: </strong>Sunday, September 24, 2023 6:41:37 PM
       <br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [Tigers] Horn Wiring
      </div>=20
      <div>
       &nbsp;
      </div>=20
      <div data-marker=3D"__QUOTED_TEXT__">=20
       <div dir=3D"ltr">
        Thanks for the responses.=20
        <div>=20
         <div>
          Everything is wired to the horns, they look original. There are 2 p=
urple wires to each horn, one is hot from the fuse box the other wire goes t=
o ground when the horn ring is pressed. When I plug the hot wire to the&nbsp=
; horn it works fine, even honks. So the horns must not be original since th=
ey are grounded to the frame.&nbsp; I still have 4 purple wires when I only h=
ave connections for two and the wiring diagram only shows two wires, one to e=
ach horn.
         </div>=20
        </div>=20
        <div>
         So should I isolate the horn frame ground, plug the hot wire to the=
 horn, use the existing jumper between the horns and connect the horn ring w=
ire to the other horn?
        </div>=20
       </div>=20
       <br>=20
       <div class=3D"gmail_quote">=20
        <div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">
         On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Theo Smit &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:
        </div>=20
        <blockquote>=20
         <div dir=3D"auto">=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Correct except that Rootes (or Lucas) would never use a relay whe=
re they could instead pass all the current through a finicky sliding contact=
.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Bob, the horns, when properly adjusted, draw about three amps eac=
h. It would be a good idea to wire in a cube type relay so that the ring con=
tact does not have to pass that much current.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           If you like I can draw up a wiring diagram for that.&nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           &nbsp;
          </div>=20
          <div dir=3D"ltr">
           Theo
           <br>=20
           <blockquote>
            On Sep 23, 2023, at 10:52 PM, Tom Witt via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">tigers@aut=
ox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:
            <br>
            <br>
           </blockquote>=20
          </div>=20
          <blockquote>=20
           <div dir=3D"ltr">=20
            <p>I believe most horns have a relay and the 12v+ is already at s=
aid relay. When the horn ring makes contact it GROUNDS the relay (completing=
 the circuit) and the relay contact points connect. That passes through the 1=
2V+ to the horns. So, typically the horn ring simply grounds the relay to ac=
tivate it. Sorry too late for me to check the manual for Tiger specifics but=
 MOST cars function that way.</p>=20
            <p>&nbsp;Think of yourself standing at a light switch in the hou=
se. When someone presses you on the shoulder (connecting to ground) you and t=
he switch act like the relay moving the switch to the on position. This then=
 send power to the light (horn). When the person pressing on your shoulder r=
eleases you turn the switch off. Hope that helps.</p>=20
            <div>
             &nbsp;
            </div>=20
            <div>
             On 9/23/2023 5:59 PM, Robert Wanty wrote:
            </div>=20
            <blockquote>=20
             <div dir=3D"ltr">
              I am working on wiring the horns for the first time since my 1=
5 year restore. I am working with the original wiring harness and horns. Sta=
rting at the horns there is one on&nbsp; each side with a jumper wire betwee=
n the two horns, there are 2 purple wires leading to each horn, one wire on e=
ach side is hot&nbsp; and wired to the fuse box the second wire is not hot o=
r grounded. I installed a new horn ring from SS and have one wire from the c=
ontact on the horn ring and a second wire for the circle contact off the sig=
nal switch, I think the wire for the circle contact should be hot&nbsp; but I=
 don't seem to have a connector for it in the harness under the dash and not=
hing for the wire to the horn ring.=20
              <div>
               It would seem to me that I should have a hot wire to the ring=
 contact then a hot to the horns when the horn ring is pressed. but the wiri=
ng harness does not seem to follow&nbsp;that way of thinking.
               <br>=20
               <div>
                The wiring diagram is some help but as usual my limited know=
ledge on this will probably start a fire.
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Any help would be&nbsp;appreciated, I would rather not rewir=
e the circuits so hopefully I can restore the Lucas <a href=3D"http://system=
.to" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">system.to</a> its original splendor.=

               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                Bob&nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                &nbsp;
               </div>=20
               <div>
                <br>=20
                <div>
                 &nbsp;&nbsp;
                </div>=20
               </div>=20
              </div>=20
             </div>=20
             <br>=20

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ilman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a>

</pre>=20
            </blockquote>=20
           </div>=20
          </blockquote>=20
         </div> _______________________________________________
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