Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

From: Buck Trippel via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 06:59:52 -0700

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In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I =
put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in =
front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an =
almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La =
Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the =
way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.

=20

The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its =
inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the =
engine heat.=20

=20

The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and =
the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes =
above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the =
same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.=20

=20

I don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)

=20

Buck Trippel

Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more =
detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think =
it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.

=20

=20

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Dr. T. Y. =
McDowell
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
To: Tiger's List <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?=20

It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's =
using it as I'm considering it.=20

=20

Thanks in advance,=20

=20

Tym McDowell=20

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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>In August of the hot summer of =
2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has =
an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. =
My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test =
by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE =
United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently =
at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The Evans =
did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific =
heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) =
inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was =
exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs =
near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I =
then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly =
coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However =
the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August =
temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for =
corrosion protection. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a =
problem.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> Buck Trippel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ps I =
wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more =
detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think =
it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr. T. Y. =
McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Tiger's List &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> [Tigers] =
Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>It has a boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear from anyone =
who's using it as I'm considering it. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Thanks in advance, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Tym McDowell <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 16:29:17 +0200

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Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp
motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even
back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator
but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t =
keep the
temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower
power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.

> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I =
put Evans
> in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a
> rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousan=
d
> mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to
> attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures we=
re
> frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>
>
>
> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior
> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine
> heat.
>
>
>
> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the
> engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above
> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA
> tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained
> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water s=
o
> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave =
in
> the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water,
> adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.
>
>
>
heat (or
> ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like
> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. Fro=
m
> my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to=
 use it,
> especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine
> which will place even more demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling sys=
tem. (BTW
> in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under
> the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made
> even more of a problem.)
>
>
>
> Buck Trippel
>
> Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more
> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think it=
 was
> published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *Dr. T. Y.
> McDowell
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM
> *To:* Tiger's List <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?
>
> It has a boiling point of 375 (F).  I'd like to hear from anyone who's
> using it as I'm considering it.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
> Tym McDowell
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Yep.=C2=A0 I run in most cars with no problems but in the=
 tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so ha=
d to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.=C2=A0 It worked sort of =
ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and=
 it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. =C2=A0 Pretty sure it would =
be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling =
problems were taken care of.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck T=
rippel via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">tigers@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:sol=
id;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-US"=
 link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div cla=
ss=3D"m_5709920822930774889WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In August o=
f the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans in =
a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rath=
er stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile=
 road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend t=
he TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequen=
tly at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The Evans did not b=
oil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat (to wa=
ter) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. <u></u><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The c=
arb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine=
 stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand =
feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck tw=
ice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of t=
he the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get hom=
e. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree=
 August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter=
 for corrosion protection. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t have the numbers of=
f the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of=
 water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water.=
 For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say =
one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock=
 radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more =
demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we dro=
ve on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot rad=
iator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.=
)<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"> Buck Trippel<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ps I w=
rote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed a=
ccount of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think it was publish=
ed in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:break-w=
ord"><div class=3D"m_5709920822930774889WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><d=
iv><div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:=
3pt 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Fr=
om:</b> Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr. T=
. Y. McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Tiger&#39;s List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> [Tigers] Evans Waterl=
ess Cooling<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Is anyone out there in T=
igerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? <u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,s=
ans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">It has a boiling point of 375 (=
F).=C2=A0 I&#39;d like to hear from anyone who&#39;s using it as I&#39;m co=
nsidering it. <u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(51,51,51)"><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u>=C2=A0<=
u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Thanks in advance, <u style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fon=
t-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica,sans-serif"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-seri=
f"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Tym McDowell <=
u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica,sans-serif"></u></span></p></div></div></div>______________________=
_________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m.net</a><br>
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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a href=3D"htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://aut=
ox.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net=
/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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From: LARRY PAULICK via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:35:56 -0400

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Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators =
are lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.

=0DWhen I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row =
brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not =
affected.

Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed =
impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket =
companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the =
impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. =
Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.

TEAE =0Ddid a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This =
excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth =
reading, dispelling a lot of myths.

=0DAnother design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower =
portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the =
radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front =
of the radiator, at rest.

=0DI know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air =
recirculating.

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost =
plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help=0D the flow of =
air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while =
in motion.

Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.

I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up =
so much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars =
and how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another =
myth.

> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
>=20
> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the =
500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch =
off even back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the =
dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just =
couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down.   Pretty sure it would be doable =
with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling =
problems were taken care of.
>=20
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers =
> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) =
I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator =
in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an =
almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La =
Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the =
way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> I don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the =
specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans =
is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did =
not do the job. =46rom my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to =
be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator =
system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand =
on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove =
on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot =
radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a =
problem.)
>=20
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--Apple-Mail=_4A039AD9-F006-452D-B6D3-1A9058656B7D
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators. =
&nbsp;Aluminum radiators are lighter but &nbsp;brass transfers heat more =
efficiently.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=0DWhen =
I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass =
retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not =
affected.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Also =
if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller =
type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell =
them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate =
from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping =
efficiency is greatly improved.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">TEAE =0Ddid a study many years ago on =
all aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still =
applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of =
myths.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">=0D=
Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion =
of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator =
then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the =
radiator, at rest.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">=0DI know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched =
the air recirculating.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a =
low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help=0D the =
flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the =
car while in motion.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I have to laugh at the =
commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that =
that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how they fill =
the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
charset=3D"UTF-8" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Yep.&nbsp; I run in most cars with no =
problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of =
efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and =
antifreeze.&nbsp; It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I =
switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the =
temps down. &nbsp; Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and =
lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care =
of.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Times-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 =
Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; =
padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><div =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"m_5709920822930774889WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In =
August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I =
put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in =
front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an =
almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La =
Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the =
way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The =
Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior =
specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine =
heat.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The =
carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the =
engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above =
4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same =
AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t have the =
numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to =
transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or =
only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. =46rom my =
experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to =
use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful =
engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak =
cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed =
the stock block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through =
which probably have made even more of a problem.)<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck Trippel<u class=3D""></u><u=
 class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ps I wrote up some of this =
years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed account of Evans =
heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think it was published in both =
the TEAE and CAT newletters.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" =
vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"m_5709920822930774889WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; padding: =
3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Dr. T. Y. =
McDowell<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 =
AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tiger's List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[Tigers] Evans Waterless =
Cooling<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=3D"">Is=
 anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=3D"">It has a =
boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear from anyone who's using =
it as I'm considering it.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=3D"">Thanks in =
advance,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=3D"">Tym =
McDowell<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div></div></div>______________________________=
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[email-masked]

--===============0589863483864714114==--

---

From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 17:42:10 +0200

--===============8936082820793232591==

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Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job
in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  My car
ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.
As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I
struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was
just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a new
brass one I would certainly prefer that.

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked]>
ha scritto:

> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators are
> lighter but  brass transfers heat more efficiently.
>
> When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass
> retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.
>
> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impelle=
r
> type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell
> them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate fro=
m
> Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency i=
s
> greatly improved.
>
> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent
> engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading,
> dispelling a lot of myths.
>
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion o=
f
> the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then go=
es
> down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at
> rest.
>
> I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air
> recirculating.
>
> I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost
> plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air
> through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in
> motion.
>
> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so
> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and h=
ow
> they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.
>
> On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiato=
r
> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99=
t keep the
>> In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I=
 put
>> Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in fro=
nt
>> of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost
>> 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via
>> I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home.
>> Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferio=
r
>> specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine h=
eat.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and th=
e
>> 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AA=
A
>> maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water =
so
>> I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave=
 in
>> I don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific=
 heat (or
>> .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. Fr=
om
>> my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be exceptionally brave t=
o use it,
>> which will place even more demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling sy=
stem. (BTW
>> detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think i=
t was
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
>

--0000000000003f4d8905e2d4599a
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not qu=
ite up to the job in my car.=C2=A0 Most of those cooling tricks are for slo=
w moving car.=C2=A0 My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the les=
s than perfect radiator.=C2=A0 As I said, with a better radiator or with wa=
ter instead it is fine.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.=C2=A0 I s=
truggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was ju=
st too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.=C2=A0 If I could get a n=
ew brass one I would certainly prefer that.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 al=
le 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">lpaulic=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-styl=
e:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style=3D"=
word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Another issue is aluminu=
m versus brass radiators.=C2=A0 Aluminum radiators are lighter but =C2=A0br=
ass transfers heat more efficiently.<div><br></div><div>
When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass reta=
ining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Also if you&#39;re replacing or having overheating problem=
s, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermark=
et companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the im=
peller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pump=
ing efficiency is greatly improved.</div><div><br></div><div>TEAE=20
did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent engine=
ering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, dispelling a =
lot of myths.</div><div><br></div><div>
Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of =
the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes=
 down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at =
rest.</div><div><br></div><div>
I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air recircula=
ting.</div><div><br></div><div>I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet m=
etal, and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, t=
o help
 the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the =
car while in motion.</div><div><br></div><div>Bottom line it all works and =
I don&#39;t overheat.</div><div><br></div><div>I have to laugh at the comme=
ntos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that&#39;s wh=
y they overheat. Just look at today&#39;s cars and how they fill the engine=
 bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.<br><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"></blockquote></div></div></div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-=
word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
>On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:owain.lloyd=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br=
></blockquote></div></div></div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-bre=
ak:after-white-space"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div></div></bloc=
kquote></div></div></div><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:afte=
r-white-space"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"auto" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Times-Roman;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-dec=
oration:none">Yep.=C2=A0 I run in most cars with no problems but in the tig=
er with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to=
 switch off even back to water and antifreeze.=C2=A0 It worked sort of ok w=
ith the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it =
just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. =C2=A0 Pretty sure it would be d=
oable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling prob=
lems were taken care of.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman;font-si=
ze:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-s=
pacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-sp=
ace:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Bu=
ck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex;font-family:Times-Roman;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D=
"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;fo=
nt-family:Times-Roman"><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">In August of the hot summer of =
2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an=
 excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather stock 289. My wif=
e and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile road test by drivin=
g from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and t=
hen Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. =
So it got quite a test.<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=3D=
"font-family:Times-Roman"></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Times-Roman"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"=
font-family:Times-Roman"></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Times-Roman">The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures=
 its inferior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove t=
he engine heat.<span style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><u style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">The carb got so=
 hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled l=
ean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In P=
ueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the=
 same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the cos=
tly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However=
 the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August te=
mps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corro=
sion protection.<span style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span><u sty=
le=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><u style=3D"f=
ont-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">I don=E2=80=99=
t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability=
 to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or on=
ly 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experi=
ence I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, es=
pecially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which =
will place even more demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BT=
W in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under =
the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made ev=
en more of a problem.)<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=3D"=
font-family:Times-Roman"></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Times-Roman"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"f=
ont-family:Times-Roman"></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family=
:Times-Roman">Buck Trippel<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Times-Roman">Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it co=
ntained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=
=93 I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.<u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><=
/p></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word;font-family:Times-Roman"><div style=3D"font-family=
:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Ro=
man"></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Rom=
an"></u></p><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><div style=3D"border-sty=
le:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;font-family:Tim=
es-Roman;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"font-family:Times-Roman"><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">From:</b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span>Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:T=
imes-Roman">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<span style=3D"font-family=
:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">On Behalf O=
f<span style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span></b>Dr. T. Y. McDowel=
l<br><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">Sent:</b><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span>Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b style=3D"=
font-family:Times-Roman">To:</b><span style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">=C2=
=A0</span>Tiger&#39;s List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">[email-masked]</a>&=
gt;<br><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman">Subject:</b><span style=3D"font=
-family:Times-Roman">=C2=A0</span>[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u><=
/p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-R=
oman"></u></p><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Is anyone out there in Tigerlan=
d using Evans Waterless Coolant?<span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-s=
erif">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u><u sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u></span></p></div><div style=3D"=
font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-=
Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(51,51,51)">It has a boiling point of 375 (F).=C2=A0 I&#39;d like to he=
ar from anyone who&#39;s using it as I&#39;m considering it.<span style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u></s=
pan></p></div><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u style=3D"font-family:Helveti=
ca,sans-serif"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u>=
</span></p></div><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fa=
mily:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Thanks in advance,<span styl=
e=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></=
u></span></p></div><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-=
family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><u style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica,sans-serif"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"=
></u></span></p></div><div style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Tym McDowell<span style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></u=
></span></p></div></div></div>_____________________________________________=
__<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" style=
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Buck Trippel via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:13:46 -0700

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Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high =
altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?

=20

Buck

=20

From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
To: LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked]>
Cc: Buck Trippel <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the =
job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  =
My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect =
radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is =
fine.

=20

My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.  I =
struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it =
was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get =
a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.

=20

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked] =

=20

When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass =
retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.

=20

=20

TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This =
excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth =
reading, dispelling a lot of myths.

=20

radiator, at rest.

=20

I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air =
recirculating.

=20

I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost =
plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air =
through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in =
motion.

=20

=20

On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd <[email-masked] =

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Buck Trippel

=20

=20

=20

=20

Thanks in advance,=20

=20

Tym McDowell=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Owain, have you encountered =
either high outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your =
Tiger?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Buck<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Owain Lloyd =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 =
8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> LARRY PAULICK =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Buck Trippel =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;; =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless =
Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not =
quite up to the job in my car.&nbsp; Most of those cooling tricks are =
for slow moving car.&nbsp; My car ran too hot even at speed with evans =
and the less than perfect radiator.&nbsp; As I said, with a better =
radiator or with water instead it is fine.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>My reason for preferring brass is that it can be =
easily soldered.&nbsp; I struggled on for a long time with my brass =
radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed =
frequent repair.&nbsp; If I could get a new brass one I would certainly =
prefer that.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Il =
giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Another issue is aluminum versus brass =
radiators.&nbsp; Aluminum radiators are lighter but &nbsp;brass =
transfers heat more efficiently.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a =
stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit =
was not affected.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Also if you're replacing or having overheating =
problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some =
aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can buy =
just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it =
yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly =
improved.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of =
cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and =
well worth reading, dispelling a lot of =
myths.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Another design problem with the tiger is that there is =
no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from =
the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the =
front of the radiator, at rest.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
know this for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air =
recirculating.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost =
plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air =
through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in =
motion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Bottom line it all works and I don't =
overheat.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so =
much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and =
how they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another =
myth.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div=
><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><di=
v><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>Yep.&nbsp; I =
run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor =
I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back =
to water and antifreeze.&nbsp; It worked sort of ok with the dale =
radiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just =
couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. &nbsp; Pretty sure it would be =
doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling =
problems were taken care of.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>Il giorno sab =
2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>In August of =
the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans in =
a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a =
rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost =
5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via =
I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. =
Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>The Evans did =
not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific =
heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine =
heat.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>The carb got =
so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine =
stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above =
4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same =
AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion =
protection.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>I =
don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a =
problem.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>Buck =
Trippel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>Ps I wrote up =
some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed =
account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think it was =
published in both the TEAE and CAT =
newletters.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>From:</span></=
b><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;Tigers =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;&nbsp;<b>On =
Behalf Of&nbsp;</b>Dr. T. Y. McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Saturday, =
July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b>To:</b>&nbsp;Tiger's List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[=
Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless =
Coolant?&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>It has a boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear from anyone =
who's using it as I'm considering it.&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Thanks in advance,&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Tym McDowell&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times-Roman",serif'>______________=
_________________________________<br><br><a =
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 06:11:22 +0200

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Buck, I live in the southern alps :)
40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes=
.

Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <[email-masked]>
ha scritto:

> Owain, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high
> *From:* Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM
> *To:* LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked]>
> *Cc:* Buck Trippel <[email-masked]>; [email-masked]
> *Subject:* Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling
>
>
>
> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the jo=
b
> just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a ne=
w
r
m
s
f
es
ow
r
t keep the
put Evans
d
re
o
in
heat (or
m
 use it,
tem. (BTW
 was
> using it as I'm considering it.

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<div dir=3D"auto">Buck, I live in the southern alps :)</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">40 Celsius and 2500m.=C2=A0 But was doing the same at normal temps and a=
ltitudes.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scr=
itto:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;bord=
er-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"=
purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_7021759355591503038W=
ordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Owain, have you encountered either high=
 outside air temps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?</p></d=
iv></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-w=
rap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_7021759355591503038WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div style=
=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;b=
order-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Owain=
 Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">owain=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM<br=
><b>To:</b> LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Buck Trippel &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bucktrippel@ve=
rizon.net</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterles=
s Cooling<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Assuming all those things are done, evans =
is still not quite up to the job in my car.=C2=A0 Most of those cooling tri=
cks are for slow moving car.=C2=A0 My car ran too hot even at speed with ev=
ans and the less than perfect radiator.=C2=A0 As I said, with a better radi=
ator or with water instead it is fine.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">My=
 reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.=C2=A0 I str=
uggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it was just=
 too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.=C2=A0 If I could get a new=
 brass one I would certainly prefer that.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lpa=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none non=
e solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;mar=
gin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.=C2=A0 Aluminum radiato=
rs are lighter but =C2=A0brass transfers heat more efficiently.<u></u><u></=
u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock t=
wo row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not a=
ffected.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also if you&#39;re replacing or =
having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more=
 efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, b=
ut you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and=
 install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.<u></u><u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cool=
ing. This excellent engineering study is still applicable today and well wo=
rth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">A=
nother design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of t=
he fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes =
down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at r=
est.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I know this for a fact since I did s=
moke test and watched the air recirculating.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost p=
lastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air thro=
ugh the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.<=
u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bottom line it all works and I don&#39;t =
overheat.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have to laugh at the commento=
s who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that&#39;s why t=
hey overheat. Just look at today&#39;s cars and how they fill the engine ba=
y and it becomes apparent this is another myth.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><div><div><di=
v><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ow=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></bl=
ockquote></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5=
pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Yep.=C2=A0 I run in most cars wi=
th no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of =
efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.=
=C2=A0 It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to a=
nother brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. =C2=
=A0 Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor =
if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.<u style=3D"font-famil=
y:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;f=
ont-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></=
u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-R=
oman,serif">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Times-Roman,serif">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,=
serif"></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none non=
e solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;mar=
gin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">In A=
ugust of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Ev=
ans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of=
 a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousa=
nd mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to a=
ttend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were =
frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.<u style=3D"font-family:T=
imes-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Tim=
es-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u sty=
le=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">The Evans di=
d not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific heat=
 (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat.=C2=A0<u sty=
le=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roma=
n,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roma=
n,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,=
serif">The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls an=
d the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above=
 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same AAA =
tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly drained may=
be half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with plain water so I c=
ould get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing the Mojave in th=
e 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans with water, adding =
Water Wetter for corrosion protection.=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-R=
oman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Rom=
an,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"=
font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">I don=E2=80=99t ha=
ve the numbers off the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to =
transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2=
/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience=
 I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especi=
ally with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will=
 place even more demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in=
 the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the =
carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably have made even m=
ore of a problem.)<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,=
serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5p=
t;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Buck Trippel<u style=3D"font-family:Times-=
Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Ro=
man,serif">Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained =
a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I thi=
nk it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.<u style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u>=
</span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:T=
imes-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Tim=
es-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u sty=
le=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"bord=
er-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-to=
p-color:rgb(225,225,225)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:T=
imes-Roman,serif">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=C2=A0<b style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Times-Roman,serif">On Behalf Of=C2=A0</b>Dr. T. Y. McDowell<br><b=
 style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Sent:</b>=C2=A0Saturday, July 2, 2=
022 5:06 AM<br><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">To:</b>=C2=A0Tige=
r&#39;s List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
 style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><=
b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Subject:</b>=C2=A0[Tigers] Evans =
Waterless Cooling<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D=
"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=
=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:T=
imes-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Is an=
yone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant?=C2=A0</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font=
-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><=
/u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12=
pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">It has a boiling p=
oint of 375 (F).=C2=A0 I&#39;d like to hear from anyone who&#39;s using it =
as I&#39;m considering it.=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font=
-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-se=
rif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Thanks in advance,=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Ro=
man,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:H=
elvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Rom=
an,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:He=
lvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Tym McDowell=C2=A0</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-famil=
y:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></s=
pan></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:13.=
5pt"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">_______=
________________________________________<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">tig=
[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/d=
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From: Larry Mayfield via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 05:15:31 -0700

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You, bit of anti-freeze to keep the corrosion at bay, and a smidge of =
Red Line water wetter to keep nucleate boiling down ( it is a surfactant =
which increases the water ability to wet the water passage walls. I =
suspect that a higher flow volume and but lower flow rate would help the =
Evans, goo work a bit better. Has to have time to make up the loss of =
heat capacity. And higher vol to keep the temp as cool as it can bee =
cause cold attract heat=E2=80=A6

=20

So to speak

=20

mayf

=20

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Owain Lloyd
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 7:29 AM
To: Buck Trippel <[email-masked]>
Cc: Tiger's List <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Buck Trippel

=20

=20

=20

=20

Thanks in advance,=20

=20

Tym McDowell=20

Unsubscribe: =

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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>You, bit of anti-freeze to =
keep the corrosion at bay, and a smidge of Red Line water wetter to keep =
nucleate boiling down ( it is a surfactant which increases the water =
ability to wet the water passage walls. I suspect that a higher flow =
volume and but lower flow rate would help the Evans, goo work a bit =
better. Has to have time to make up the loss of heat capacity. And =
higher vol to keep the temp as cool as it can bee cause cold attract =
heat=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>So to speak<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>mayf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Owain =
Lloyd<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 7:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Buck =
Trippel &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Tiger's List =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans =
Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Yep.&nbsp; I run in most cars with no problems but in =
the tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible =
so had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.&nbsp; It worked =
sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand =
radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. &nbsp; Pretty =
sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all =
the other cooling problems were taken care =
of.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Il =
giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>In August =
of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans =
in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of =
a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost =
5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via =
I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. =
Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The Evans =
did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific =
heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine heat. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The carb =
got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine =
stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above =
4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same =
AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I =
don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a =
problem.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Buck =
Trippel<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Ps I wrote =
up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more detailed =
account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think it was =
published in both the TEAE and CAT =
newletters.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
 Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Dr. T. Y. McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Tiger's List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> =
[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coolant? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>It has a boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear from anyone =
who's using it as I'm considering it. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Thanks in advance, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Tym McDowell </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>__________________________________________=
_____<br><br><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate: <a =
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target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe: =
<a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]=
m" =
target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloy=
[email-masked]</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></bo=
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---

From: LARRY PAULICK via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 09:39:42 -0400

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Dr. M, =0Dcheck the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search =
for Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a good starting point =
for finding that study, others may have a direct source.

> On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]> =
wrote:
> 40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and =
altitudes.
>=20
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel =
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Buck
>=20
> =20
>=20
> From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked] =
> To: LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked] =
> Cc: Buck Trippel <[email-masked] =
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK =
>=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower =
recirculating.

--Apple-Mail=_2288FE33-7F84-4959-B549-F9DAF1C4A40A
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Dr. =
M, =0Dcheck the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for =
Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study. &nbsp;This is a good starting point =
for finding that study, others may have a direct source.<div =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">Buck, I live in the southern alps :)</div><div dir=3D"auto" =
class=3D"">40 Celsius and 2500m.&nbsp; But was doing the same at normal =
temps and altitudes.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno =
sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;borde=
r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"m_7021759355591503038WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Owain, =
have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes =
when using Evans in your Tiger?</p></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"m_7021759355591503038WordSection1"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"> <u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><div =
style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt =
0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D"">From:</b> Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">To:</b> LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b> Buck Trippel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Assuming all those things are done, evans is still =
not quite up to the job in my car.&nbsp; Most of those cooling tricks =
are for slow moving car.&nbsp; My car ran too hot even at speed with =
evans and the less than perfect radiator.&nbsp; As I said, with a better =
radiator or with water instead it is fine.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">My reason for preferring brass is that it can be =
easily soldered.&nbsp; I struggled on for a long time with my brass =
radiator but eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed =
frequent repair.&nbsp; If I could get a new brass one I would certainly =
prefer that.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none =
none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Another issue is =
aluminum versus brass radiators.&nbsp; Aluminum radiators are lighter =
but &nbsp;brass transfers heat more efficiently.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a =
stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit =
was not affected.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also if =
you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type =
water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them =
already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from =
Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency =
is greatly improved.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div><div =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">TEAE did =
a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent =
engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, =
dispelling a lot of myths.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Another design problem with the tiger is that there =
is no lower portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed =
from the radiator then goes down to the ground and circles back through =
the front of the radiator, at rest.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">I know this for a fact since I did smoke test and =
watched the air recirculating.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, =
and made a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to =
help the flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear =
of the car while in motion.<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">Bottom line it all works and I don't overheat.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have =
to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much =
space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how =
they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></p></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 2, 2022, at =
10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
class=3D""></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">Yep.&nbsp; I run in most cars with no problems but in the =
tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so =
had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.&nbsp; It worked =
sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand =
radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. &nbsp; Pretty =
sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all =
the other cooling problems were taken care of.<u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u></span></p><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">Il =
giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none =
none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">In =
August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I =
put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in =
front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an =
almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La =
Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the =
way home. Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">The =
Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior =
specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine =
heat.&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">The =
carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the =
engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above =
4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same =
AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion =
protection.&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">I =
don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. =46rom my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem.)<u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">Buck =
Trippel<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">Ps I =
wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more =
detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think =
it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.<u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style:solid=
 none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in =
0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;&nbsp;<b =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of&nbsp;</b>Dr. T. Y. McDowell<br class=3D""><b =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">Sent:</b>&nbsp;Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br class=3D""><b =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D"">To:</b>&nbsp;Tiger's =
List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">Subject:</b>&nbsp;[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,5=
1)" class=3D"">Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless =
Coolant?&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,5=
1)" class=3D"">It has a boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear =
from anyone who's using it as I'm considering it.&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,5=
1)" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,5=
1)" class=3D"">Thanks in advance,&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,5=
1)" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,5=
1)" class=3D"">Tym McDowell&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" class=3D""></u><u =
style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
class=3D""></u></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
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class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
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[email-masked]

--===============6864837014619328342==--

---

From: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:49:19 +0200

--===============8047411674119575185==

--00000000000016b0df05e2e7bab6
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That study (whilst very good) doesn=E2=80=99t mention anything about waterl=
ess
coolant though does it?  And that was the original question.

Il giorno dom 3 lug 2022 alle 15:39 LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked]>
ha scritto:

> Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for
> Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a good starting point for
> finding that study, others may have a direct source.
>
> On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> 40 Celsius and 2500m.  But was doing the same at normal temps and
> altitudes.
>
> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel <[email-masked]=
>
> ha scritto:
>
>> Assuming all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the
>> job in my car.  Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.  M=
y
>> car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect
>> radiator.  As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead it is
>> fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it wa=
s
>> just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.  If I could get a n=
ew
>> Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK <[email-masked]=
>
>> ha scritto:
>>
>> Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.  Aluminum radiators ar=
e
>> Also if you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed
>> impeller type water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket compan=
ies
>> sell them already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller pla=
te
>> from Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping
>> efficiency is greatly improved.
>>
>>
>>
>> TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellen=
t
>> Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion
>> of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator the=
n
>> goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiat=
or,
>> at rest.
>> I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up s=
o
>> much space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and =
how
>> Yep.  I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500h=
p
>> motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off eve=
n
>> back to water and antifreeze.  It worked sort of ok with the dale radiat=
or
>> but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=
=99t keep the
 put
nt
r
e
A
so
 in
 heat (or
om
o use it,
stem. (BTW
t was
>> using it as I'm considering it.

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<div dir=3D"auto">That study (whilst very good) doesn=E2=80=99t mention any=
thing about waterless coolant though does it?=C2=A0 And that was the origin=
al question.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno dom 3 lug 2022 alle 15:39 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scrit=
to:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border=
-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break=
:after-white-space">Dr. M,=20
check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger Tom =
and tiger cooling study.=C2=A0 This is a good starting point for finding th=
at study, others may have a direct source.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap:bre=
ak-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><div>On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:owai=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</=
div><br><div><div dir=3D"auto">Buck, I live in the southern alps :)</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">40 Celsius and 2500m.=C2=A0 But was doing the same at norma=
l temps and altitudes.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">bucktripp=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-styl=
e:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"E=
N-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">Owain, have you encountered either high outside air te=
mps or high altitudes when using Evans in your Tiger?</p></div></div><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p><div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:=
3pt 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Fr=
om:</b> Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 2, 20=
22 8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lpaulick1@veri=
zon.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Buck=
 Trippel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">b=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] E=
vans Waterless Cooling<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Assuming all those things are=
 done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.=C2=A0 Most of thos=
e cooling tricks are for slow moving car.=C2=A0 My car ran too hot even at =
speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.=C2=A0 As I said, with =
a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.<u></u><u></u></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered=
.=C2=A0 I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventuall=
y it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.=C2=A0 If I co=
uld get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.<u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt; ha scritto:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-styl=
e:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin=
-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">Another issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.=C2=A0 A=
luminum radiators are lighter but =C2=A0brass transfers heat more efficient=
ly.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">When I redid my tiger, I used a three row v=
ersus a stock two row brass retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that th=
e fit was not affected.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also if you&#39;r=
e replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type water pu=
mp is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them already set=
 up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a ver=
y low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved=
.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">TEAE did a study many years ago on all =
aspects of cooling. This excellent engineering study is still applicable to=
day and well worth reading, dispelling a lot of myths.<u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Another design problem with the tiger is that there is no lo=
wer portion of the fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the rad=
iator then goes down to the ground and circles back through the front of th=
e radiator, at rest.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I know this for a fa=
ct since I did smoke test and watched the air recirculating.<u></u><u></u><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">I fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and m=
ade a low cost plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the =
flow of air through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car w=
hile in motion.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bottom line it all works=
 and I don&#39;t overheat.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have to laug=
h at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much space that=
 that&#39;s why they overheat. Just look at today&#39;s cars and how they f=
ill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another myth.<u></u><u><=
/u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></=
div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Yep.=C2=A0 I r=
un in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 500hp motor I ne=
eded every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off even back to wat=
er and antifreeze.=C2=A0 It worked sort of ok with the dale radiator but th=
en I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep t=
he temps down. =C2=A0 Pretty sure it would be doable with an efficient and =
lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were taken care of.<u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Ro=
man,serif"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Tim=
es-Roman,serif"></u>=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></=
span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;f=
ont-family:Times-Roman,serif">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trip=
pel via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Times-Roman,serif" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha=
 scritto:<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-st=
yle:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;marg=
in-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-=
Roman,serif">In August of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all h=
ot now?) I put Evans in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum rad=
iator in front of a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through a=
n almost 5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse=
 via I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. T=
emperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.<u style=
=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,=
serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5p=
t;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,=
serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,se=
rif">The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its infer=
ior specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine =
heat.=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-=
family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-=
family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-fa=
mily:Times-Roman,serif">The carb got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) in=
side the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated a=
t altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up=
 on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluct=
antly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with p=
lain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred crossing=
 the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced the Evans wi=
th water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.=C2=A0<u style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font=
-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">I=
 don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific hea=
t (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is something l=
ike .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not do the job. F=
rom my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be exceptionally brave =
to use it, especially with a stock radiator system or with a more powerful =
engine which will place even more demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak coolin=
g system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that trip, we had removed the stock=
 block under the carb that hot radiator fluid passes through which probably=
 have made even more of a problem.)<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,seri=
f"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,seri=
f">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Buck Trippel<u style=3D=
"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,ser=
if"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;f=
ont-family:Times-Roman,serif">Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I be=
lieve it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the t=
rip =E2=80=93 I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.=
<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Time=
s-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u sty=
le=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roma=
n,serif"></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roma=
n,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><div=
><div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3p=
t 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0Tigers=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"font-family:=
Times-Roman,serif" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
=C2=A0<b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">On Behalf Of=C2=A0</b>Dr. =
T. Y. McDowell<br><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Sent:</b>=C2=
=A0Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,se=
rif">To:</b>=C2=A0Tiger&#39;s List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt;<br><b style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif">Subject:</b=
>=C2=A0[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,=
serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div>=
</div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Ti=
mes-Roman,serif">=C2=A0<u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(51,51,51)">Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless Coola=
nt?=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,ser=
if"><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:=
Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)=
">It has a boiling point of 375 (F).=C2=A0 I&#39;d like to hear from anyone=
 who&#39;s using it as I&#39;m considering it.=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Time=
s-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-fami=
ly:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"font-family:Times=
-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Thanks in advance,=C2=A0</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"=
font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,seri=
f"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">=C2=A0</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u style=3D"f=
ont-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif=
"></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Tym McDowell=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif"><u=
 style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-=
Roman,serif"></u></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times=
-Roman,serif">_______________________________________________<br><br><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><br>Donate:=C2=A0<a href=3D"=
rget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive:=C2=A0<a hre=
f=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman=
,serif" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a>=C2=A0<a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,ser=
if" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br><br>Unsubscribe:=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/owain.lloyd@g=
mail.com" style=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif" target=3D"_blank">http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]</a><br><br><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Times-Roman,serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Times-Ro=
man,serif"></u></span></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">_____________=
__________________________________<br><br></span><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-famil=
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:13.5pt;font-family:Times-Roman,serif">=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"http://autox=
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/div></blockquote></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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[email-masked]

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---

From: Larry Mayfield via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 09:21:43 -0700

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Thank you for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your =
suggestion, i.e.  =E2=80=9CTiger Tom and tiger cooling study=E2=80=9D =
and it was the first thing that popped up, lol.  I have scanned it and =
will do a more detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on.=20

I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and =
conducting the experiment and making comparisons.  I am going to comment =
of the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call =
missing, elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.  =
It is going to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol.=20

=20

It was not very rigorous, in my opinion.  Let me explain, lest I be =
pilloried.  There are many parameters for the air and coolant =
conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results =
which do not seem to have been addressed as the  =E2=80=9CWhy does it =
overheat at idle?=E2=80=9D  question, at least, I think that was the =
question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that these =
men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager for a =
large Aerospace company and did a lot of test analyses preceded by test =
design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce the spec =
conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could be =
determined.  What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good.=20

A.	The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at idle? =
 The conditions should have contained a detailed description of the same =
parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the absolute =
air temperature, the absolute air pressure (not baro), the humidity, and =
altitude,  entering the system. The system is defined as everything =
surrounding the vehicle.  Why is this important? Well, the conditions =
need to be replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know =
that the changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.  Take =
humidity, humid air has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense =
that the atmospheric make up and that means that the heat transfer rate =
is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed by the mass of coolant flowing =
both in the system and then into the ambient air.  The cooling air =
enthalpy and entropy can be calculated, with the help of =
=E2=80=98steam=E2=80=99 tables and charts with this data as to how well =
the ambient can cool something.  Flow rate of the cooling air is a key =
element but so is the actual mass of the air (with humidity) that flows =
through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then into the =
surrounding ambient air.  Heat only flows from hot to cold and the =
smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air =
flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at =
seal level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is =
the mass of and the particulars of the air=E2=80=99s make up that is =
important   If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle =
issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.   If outside, the temp and =
abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how well =
the system was performing.=20
B.	The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.  As has been =
stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator =
antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it =
also increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the =
iron and aluminum and other metallic components through which the =
coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be =
made to determine just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism =
both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate =
through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed into the =
radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The flow =
rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, =
And the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any =
changes can be made.  It should be noted that there are two other =
methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is convection and =
conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan =
and pan, the head(s),  and anything that has coolant in it all come into =
play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials need to be =
acquired along with their surface area and external conditions found in =
order to get an accurate analysis.  Another is radiation from the =
surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so to =
speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation touches. =
And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine as well as =
the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat:  those surfaces =
all need to be monitored as well. =20
C.	Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. The air =
fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the best =
operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is =
hotter, so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will =
melt pistons (been there, done that).  The stochiometric air fuel ratio =
needs to be the same for every test.  At the best burn value.  Even a =
too rich burn can cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air =
pressure should be monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that =
leads to unexpected heat being generated.  Flow meters on the engine air =
intake and fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed.=20

Was the experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful, =
information that many had not through about and there are things that =
were made to that should have changed the results more than they =
appeared to change.  I congratulate them for the effort they put into =
this!=20

=20

If I was to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics =
for concise parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the =
effect of the changeable components.  I would get myself an Arduino Mega =
2560 module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful =
of pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,  A good thermodynamics =
textbook and go at it.  The Arduino IDE has a serial data output =
capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter which can =
display and record all  the data channels virtually simultaneously. All =
can be exported to excel if needed for individual parameter display. =20

=20

Or just drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time =
ago an dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider =
doing a repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for =
the notion that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer =
to the cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me =
approaching 81 years of age and slowing way, way, down.=20

=20

Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back door=E2=80=A6=20

=20

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of LARRY PAULICK =
via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM
To: Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for =
Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a very good starting point =
for finding that study, others may have a direct source.

On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd <[email-masked] =

=20

=20

=20

Buck

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Buck Trippel

=20

=20

=20

=20

Thanks in advance,=20

=20

Tym McDowell=20

Unsubscribe: =

Unsubscribe:  =

=20

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you for the suggestion =
on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, i.e.=C2=A0 =
=E2=80=9CTiger Tom and tiger cooling study=E2=80=9D and it was the first =
thing that popped up, lol.=C2=A0 I have scanned it and will do a more =
detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job =
at setting up and conducting the experiment and making =
comparisons.=C2=A0 I am going to comment of the state of rigor for the =
experiment and what the, what I call missing, elements of the =
experiment, could mean to the final results.=C2=A0 It is going to be =
long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It was =
<i>not</i> very rigorous, in my opinion.=C2=A0 Let me explain, lest I be =
pilloried. =C2=A0There are many parameters for the air and coolant =
conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results =
which do not seem to have been addressed as the =C2=A0=E2=80=9CWhy does =
it overheat at idle?=E2=80=9D =C2=A0question, at least, I think that was =
the question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that =
these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager =
for a large Aerospace company and did a <b>lot</b> of test analyses =
preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce =
the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could =
be determined.=C2=A0 What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good. =
<o:p></o:p></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0in' start=3D1 type=3DA><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'>The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at =
idle?=C2=A0 The conditions should have contained a detailed description =
of the same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the =
absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure (<u>not</u> baro), =
the humidity, and altitude, =C2=A0entering the system. The system is =
defined as everything surrounding the vehicle. =C2=A0Why is this =
important? Well, the conditions need to be replicated each time a test =
run is made. If you want to know that the changes made later have an =
effect, plus or minus.=C2=A0 Take humidity, humid air has less air in =
it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheric make up and that =
means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed =
by the <b>mass</b> of coolant flowing both in the system and then into =
the ambient air. =C2=A0The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be =
calculated, with the help of =E2=80=98steam=E2=80=99 tables and charts =
with this data as to how well the ambient can cool something.=C2=A0 Flow =
rate of the cooling air is a <b>key element</b> but so is the <b>actual =
mass</b> of the air (with humidity) that flows through the radiator and =
into the engine compartment, and then into the surrounding ambient =
air.=C2=A0 Heat only flows from hot to cold and the smaller the =
difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air flow rate =
can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at seal level =
with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is <b>the =
mass</b> of and the particulars of the air=E2=80=99s make up that is =
important =C2=A0=C2=A0If the test was conducted in a closed room for the =
idle issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If =
outside, the temp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the =
humidity to know how well the system was performing. <o:p></o:p></li><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'>The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.=C2=A0 As has =
been stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator =
antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it =
also increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the =
iron and aluminum and other metallic components through which the =
coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be =
made to determine just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism =
both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate =
through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed into the =
radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The flow =
rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, =
And the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any =
changes can be made. =C2=A0It should be noted that there are two other =
methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is convection and =
conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan =
and pan, the head(s),=C2=A0 and anything that has coolant in it all come =
into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials need to =
be acquired along with their surface area and external conditions found =
in order to get an accurate analysis.=C2=A0 Another is radiation from =
the surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so =
to speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation =
touches. And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine =
as well as the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat: =
=C2=A0those surfaces all need to be monitored as well. =
=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Lastly, for me anyway, =
is the state of turn of the engine. The air fuel ration needs to be =
monitored and the engine put into the best operating performance it can =
achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hotter, so if the AFR is high then =
as most racer know, the system will melt pistons (been there, done =
that).=C2=A0 The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be the same for =
every test.=C2=A0 At the best burn value.=C2=A0 Even a too rich burn can =
cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should be =
monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected =
heat being generated. =C2=A0Flow meters on the engine air intake and =
fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed. =
<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:red;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Was the =
experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful, information that =
many had not through about and there are things that were made to that =
should have changed the results more than they appeared to change. =
=C2=A0I congratulate them for the effort they put into this</span><span =
style=3D'color:red'>! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If I was to =
do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise =
parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the =
changeable components. =C2=A0I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 =
module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of =
pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,=C2=A0 A good =
thermodynamics textbook and go at it. =C2=A0The Arduino IDE has a serial =
data output capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter =
which can display and record all =C2=A0the data channels virtually =
simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if needed for individual =
parameter display. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Or just =
drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an =
dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a =
repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion =
that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the =
cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 =
years of age and slowing way, way, down. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf, twfs =
210.779 mph out the back door=E2=80=A6 <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>LARRY PAULICK =
via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Owain Lloyd &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless =
Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Dr. M, check =
the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger Tom and =
tiger cooling study. &nbsp;This is a very good starting point for =
finding that study, others may have a direct =
source.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Buck, I live in the southern alps =
:)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>40 Celsius and =
2500m.&nbsp; But was doing the same at normal temps and =
altitudes.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Il =
giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Owain, have =
you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when =
using Evans in your Tiger?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Buck<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
 Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Buck =
Trippel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Assuming =
all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my =
car.&nbsp; Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.&nbsp; =
My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect =
radiator.&nbsp; As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead =
it is fine.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>My reason =
for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.&nbsp; I =
struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it =
was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.&nbsp; If I =
could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer =
that.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Il giorno =
sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Another =
issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.&nbsp; Aluminum radiators are =
lighter but &nbsp;brass transfers heat more =
efficiently.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When I =
redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass =
retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not =
affected.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Also if =
you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type =
water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them =
already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from =
Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency =
is greatly improved.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>TEAE did a =
study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent =
engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, =
dispelling a lot of myths.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Another =
design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the =
fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes =
down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, =
at rest.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I know this =
for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air =
recirculating.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I =
fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost =
plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air =
through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in =
motion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Bottom line =
it all works and I don't overheat.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have to =
laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much =
space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how =
they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another =
myth.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jul 2, =
2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Yep.&nbsp; I run in most cars with no problems but in the =
tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so =
had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.&nbsp; It worked =
sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand =
radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. &nbsp; Pretty =
sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all =
the other cooling problems were taken care =
of.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Il giorno =
sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>In August =
of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans =
in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of =
a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost =
5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via =
I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. =
Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The Evans =
did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific =
heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine =
heat.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The carb =
got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine =
stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above =
4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same =
AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion =
protection.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I =
don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a =
problem.)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Buck =
Trippel</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Ps I =
wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more =
detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think =
it was published in both the TEAE and CAT =
newletters.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;&nbsp;<b>On =
Behalf Of&nbsp;</b>Dr. T. Y. McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Saturday, =
July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b>To:</b>&nbsp;Tiger's List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[=
Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless =
Coolant?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>It has a boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear from anyone =
who's using it as I'm considering =
it.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Thanks in advance,&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Tym McDowell&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>_______________________________________________<br><br><a =
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[email-masked]

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---

From: Robert Wanty via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 07:32:00 -0400

--===============5899266319397985635==

--00000000000017e1ae05e32152ff
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I have a MK1 with a 260 bored 0.030 over with a mild cam, headers, ford
cast iron 4bbl intake, stock cooling system. The thermostat is a 160 and I
was told that the cooling system would work better with a 180 thermostat
because the system would work more efficiently and shed more heat at the
higher temperature. Not sure if this is true but seems as though that may
make sense.
I found that if the air temperature is below 70 the car runs around 120,
above 80 degrees at cruising speed it stays around 160 and around 220 at
idle. Not sure what happens when the air temperature is above 85  to 90
because it is no fun driving around in a microwave so I drive a backup 911
with ac.
My 2 cents on the subject.
Bob

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On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:19 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Thank you for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your
> suggestion, i.e.  =E2=80=9CTiger Tom and tiger cooling study=E2=80=9D and=
 it was the first
> thing that popped up, lol.  I have scanned it and will do a more detailed
> review for myself as a bit of time goes on.
>
> I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and
of
> the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missing,
> elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.  It is going
> to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol.
>
>
>
> It was *not* very rigorous, in my opinion.  Let me explain, lest I be
> pilloried.  There are many parameters for the air and coolant conditions,
> the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results which do not se=
em
> to have been addressed as the  =E2=80=9CWhy does it overheat at idle?=E2=
=80=9D  question,
> at least, I think that was the question. So, just who the dickens am I to
> question anything that these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test
> engineer and manager for a large Aerospace company and did a *lot* of
> test analyses preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set u=
p
> to produce the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectl=
y
> as could be determined.  What these testers did was pretty dad gummed goo=
d.
>
>    1. The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at
>    idle?  The conditions should have contained a detailed description of =
the
>    same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the abso=
lute
>    air temperature, the absolute air pressure (*not* baro), the humidity,
>    and altitude,  entering the system. The system is defined as everythin=
g
>    surrounding the vehicle.  Why is this important? Well, the conditions =
need
>    to be replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know tha=
t the
>    changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.  Take humidity, humi=
d air
>    has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheri=
c
>    make up and that means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Ye=
s,
>    heat is absorbed by the *mass* of coolant flowing both in the system
>    and then into the ambient air.  The cooling air enthalpy and entropy c=
an be
>    calculated, with the help of =E2=80=98steam=E2=80=99 tables and charts=
 with this data as to
>    how well the ambient can cool something.  Flow rate of the cooling air=
 is a *key
>    element* but so is the *actual mass* of the air (with humidity) that
>    flows through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then i=
nto
>    the surrounding ambient air.  Heat only flows from hot to cold and the
>    smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the ai=
r
>    flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at =
seal
>    level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is *t=
he
>    mass* of and the particulars of the air=E2=80=99s make up that is impo=
rtant
>      If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle issue, then =
the
>    air was a few degrees warmer.   If outside, the temp and abs pressure
>    (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how well the system w=
as
>    performing.
>    2. The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.  As has been
>    stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator
also
>    increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the iron a=
nd
>    aluminum and other metallic components through which the coolant flows=
. An
>    analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be made to determin=
e
>    just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism both in the engi=
ne
>    and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate through the radio =
need
>    quantifying: a flow meter placed into the radiator water pump feed wou=
ld be
>    an excellent place to start. The flow rate with coolant out and the ex=
it
>    temperature and pressure measured, And the ambient conditions at that =
time,
>    a better analysis of any changes can be made.  It should be noted that
>    there are two other methods of cooling that come into play as well. Th=
at is
>    convection and conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, t=
he
>    oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),  and anything that has coolant in=
 it
>    all come into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materi=
als
>    need to be acquired along with their surface area and external conditi=
ons
>    found in order to get an accurate analysis.  Another is radiation from=
 the
>    surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so to
>    speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation touche=
s.
>    And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine as well =
as
>    the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat:  those surfaces =
all
>    need to be monitored as well.
>    3. Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. The air
>    fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the best
>    operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hot=
ter,
>    so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will melt pi=
stons
>    (been there, done that).  The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be=
 the
>    same for every test.  At the best burn value.  Even a too rich burn ca=
n
>    cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should b=
e
>    monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected=
 heat
>    being generated.  Flow meters on the engine air intake and fuel as wel=
l as
>    air and fuel temperature are needed.
>
> Was the experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful,
> information that many had not through about and there are things that wer=
e
> made to that should have changed the results more than they appeared to
> change.  I congratulate them for the effort they put into this!
>
>
>
> If I was to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics fo=
r
> concise parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect o=
f
> the changeable components.  I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 modul=
e,
> a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of pressure
> sensors, water and fuel flow meters,  A good thermodynamics textbook and =
go
> at it.  The Arduino IDE has a serial data output capability which can be
> recorded as well as a serial plotter which can display and record all  th=
e
> data channels virtually simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if
> needed for individual parameter display.
>
>
>
> Or just drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time
> ago an dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider
> doing a repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the
> notion that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to th=
e
> cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81
> years of age and slowing way, way, down.
>
>
>
> Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back door=E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> *From:* Tigers <[email-masked]> *On Behalf Of *LARRY
> PAULICK via Tigers
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM
> *To:* Owain Lloyd <[email-masked]>
> *Cc:* [email-masked]
> Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.  This is a very good starting point fo=
r
b
w
r
m
s
f
es
ow
r
t keep the
put Evans
d
re
o
in
heat (or
m
 use it,
tem. (BTW
 was
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>
>
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&ut=
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--00000000000017e1ae05e32152ff
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I have a MK1 with a 260 bored 0.030 over with a mild =
cam, headers, ford cast iron 4bbl intake, stock cooling system. The thermos=
tat is a 160 and I was told that the cooling system would work better with =
a 180 thermostat because the system would work more efficiently and shed mo=
re heat at the higher temperature. Not sure if this is true but seems as th=
ough that may make sense.</div><div>I found that if the air temperature is =
below 70 the car runs around 120, above 80 degrees at cruising speed it sta=
ys around 160 and around 220 at idle. Not sure what happens when the air te=
mperature is above 85=C2=A0 to 90 because it is no fun driving around in a =
microwave so I drive a backup 911 with ac.</div><div>My 2 cents on the subj=
ect.<br></div><div>Bob<br> </div><br></div><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1=
B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style=3D"border-top:1px solid #d3d4de">
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ign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Dwebmail" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"ht=
tps://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" al=
t=3D"" width=3D"46" height=3D"29" style=3D"width: 46px; height: 29px;"></a>=
</td>
		<td style=3D"width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;fo=
nt-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free. <a href=
=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_source=3D=
link&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Dwebmail" target=3D"_bla=
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</table><a href=3D"#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width=3D"1" heigh=
t=3D"1"></a></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:19 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"=
overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-473273868=
1393012823WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for the suggestion=
 on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, i.e.=C2=A0 =E2=80=9C=
Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study=E2=80=9D and it was the first thing that =
popped up, lol.=C2=A0 I have scanned it and will do a more detailed review =
for myself as a bit of time goes on. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">I must say these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and c=
onducting the experiment and making comparisons.=C2=A0 I am going to commen=
t of the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missin=
g, elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.=C2=A0 It is=
 going to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. <u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">It =
was <i>not</i> very rigorous, in my opinion.=C2=A0 Let me explain, lest I b=
e pilloried.=C2=A0 There are many parameters for the air and coolant condit=
ions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results which do no=
t seem to have been addressed as the =C2=A0=E2=80=9CWhy does it overheat at=
 idle?=E2=80=9D =C2=A0question, at least, I think that was the question. So=
, just who the dickens am I to question anything that these men did? Well, =
I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager for a large Aerospace comp=
any and did a <b>lot</b> of test analyses preceded by test design to make s=
ure that the UUT was set up to produce the spec conditions and thus the res=
ults as nearly as perfectly as could be determined.=C2=A0 What these tester=
s did was pretty dad gummed good. <u></u><u></u></p><ol style=3D"margin-top=
:0in" type=3D"A" start=3D"1"><li class=3D"gmail-m_-4732738681393012823MsoLi=
stParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in">The first thing was just how bad was=
 the engine over heating at idle?=C2=A0 The conditions should have containe=
d a detailed description of the same parameters used in the test. The atmos=
pheric conditions, the absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure =
(<u>not</u> baro), the humidity, and altitude, =C2=A0entering the system. T=
he system is defined as everything surrounding the vehicle.=C2=A0 Why is th=
is important? Well, the conditions need to be replicated each time a test r=
un is made. If you want to know that the changes made later have an effect,=
 plus or minus.=C2=A0 Take humidity, humid air has less air in it, lol. Wat=
er vapor is less dense that the atmospheric make up and that means that the=
 heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed by the <b>mass</=
b> of coolant flowing both in the system and then into the ambient air.=C2=
=A0 The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be calculated, with the help o=
f =E2=80=98steam=E2=80=99 tables and charts with this data as to how well t=
he ambient can cool something.=C2=A0 Flow rate of the cooling air is a <b>k=
ey element</b> but so is the <b>actual mass</b> of the air (with humidity) =
that flows through the radiator and into the engine compartment, and then i=
nto the surrounding ambient air.=C2=A0 Heat only flows from hot to cold and=
 the smaller the difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the ai=
r flow rate can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at sea=
l level with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is <b>th=
e mass</b> of and the particulars of the air=E2=80=99s make up that is impo=
rtant =C2=A0=C2=A0If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle i=
ssue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If outside, the te=
mp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the humidity to know how we=
ll the system was performing. <u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_-4732=
738681393012823MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in">The engine coola=
nt needs to be examined in detail.=C2=A0 As has been stated, water is the V=
ERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator antifreeze is more than just =
to prevent the coolant from freezing, it also increases the boiling point. =
But it also adds protection to the iron and aluminum and other metallic com=
ponents through which the coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents o=
f the coolant could be made to determine just how effective it is as a heat=
 transfer mechanism both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions=
. The flow rate through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed int=
o the radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The fl=
ow rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, An=
d the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any changes can=
 be made.=C2=A0 It should be noted that there are two other methods of cool=
ing that come into play as well. That is convection and conduction. The con=
duction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),=
=C2=A0 and anything that has coolant in it all come into play, so al the he=
at transfer coefficients of the materials need to be acquired along with th=
eir surface area and external conditions found in order to get an accurate =
analysis.=C2=A0 Another is radiation from the surfaces of the engine. The h=
eat signatures or the infrared heat so to speak send heat out as photons he=
ating everything the radiation touches. And convection, the air that cools =
the exterior of the engine as well as the engine bay must have air flow to =
remove the heat: =C2=A0those surfaces all need to be monitored as well. =C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_-4732738681393012823MsoListParag=
raph" style=3D"margin-left:0in">Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn=
 of the engine. The air fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine pu=
t into the best operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean =
burn is hotter, so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system w=
ill melt pistons (been there, done that).=C2=A0 The stochiometric air fuel =
ratio needs to be the same for every test.=C2=A0 At the best burn value.=C2=
=A0 Even a too rich burn can cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp a=
nd air pressure should be monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition tha=
t leads to unexpected heat being generated.=C2=A0 Flow meters on the engine=
 air intake and fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed. <u></u=
><u></u></li></ol><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:red;backgroun=
d:yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%">Was the experiment invalid? No, it was n=
ot. It provided useful, information that many had not through about and the=
re are things that were made to that should have changed the results more t=
han they appeared to change.=C2=A0 I congratulate them for the effort they =
put into this</span><span style=3D"color:red">! <u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If I wa=
s to do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise=
 parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the cha=
ngeable components.=C2=A0 I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 module, a=
 pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of pressure sensor=
s, water and fuel flow meters,=C2=A0 A good thermodynamics textbook and go =
at it.=C2=A0 The Arduino IDE has a serial data output capability which can =
be recorded as well as a serial plotter which can display and record all =
=C2=A0the data channels virtually simultaneously. All can be exported to ex=
cel if needed for individual parameter display. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Or just =
drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an dst=
uff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a repeat=
 of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion that I a=
m not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the cinderela time,=
 the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 years of age and sl=
owing way, way, down. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mayf, twfs 210.779 mph out the back do=
or=E2=80=A6 <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p><div><div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolo=
r;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0=
in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ti=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
t</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>LARRY PAULICK via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Sund=
ay, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ow=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>=
Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">tigers@a=
utox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<u=
></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dr. M, check the Tigers East Alpine East website or =
do a web search for Tiger Tom and tiger cooling study.=C2=A0 This is a very=
 good starting point for finding that study, others may have a direct sourc=
e.<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br><br><u></u><u></u>=
</p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">On Jul 3, 2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck, I live in the southern alps :)<u></u><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">40 Celsius and 2500m.=C2=A0 But=
 was doing the same at normal temps and altitudes.<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; ha scritto:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-color:c=
urrentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none no=
ne none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt=
;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Owain=
, have you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when=
 using Evans in your Tiger?<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Buck<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div style=3D"borde=
r-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none =
none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><b>From:</b> Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, =
July 2, 2022 8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lpau=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc=
:</b> Buck Trippel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Assuming all those =
things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my car.=C2=A0 Mo=
st of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.=C2=A0 My car ran too ho=
t even at speed with evans and the less than perfect radiator.=C2=A0 As I s=
aid, with a better radiator or with water instead it is fine.<u></u><u></u>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">My reason for preferring brass is that it can be easil=
y soldered.=C2=A0 I struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but=
 eventually it was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.=C2=
=A0 If I could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer that.<u></u><u>=
</u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Il giorno sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">lpaulick1@ver=
izon.net</a>&gt; ha scritto:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"bo=
rder-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-s=
tyle:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Another =
issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.=C2=A0 Aluminum radiators are ligh=
ter but =C2=A0brass transfers heat more efficiently.<u></u><u></u></p><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">When I redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row bras=
s retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not affected.<u>=
</u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also if you&#39;re replacing or having over=
heating problems, a closed impeller type water pump is much more efficient.=
 Some aftermarket companies sell them already set up this way, but you can =
buy just the impeller plate from Summit for a very low price and install it=
 yourself. Pumping efficiency is greatly improved.<u></u><u></u></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">TEAE did a study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This e=
xcellent engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading=
, dispelling a lot of myths.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Another desi=
gn problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the fan shro=
ud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes down to the=
 ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, at rest.<u></u>=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I know this for a fact since I did smoke test a=
nd watched the air recirculating.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I fabri=
cated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost plastic air =
dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air through the rad=
iator and continue towards the rear of the car while in motion.<u></u><u></=
u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bottom line it all works and I don&#39;t overheat.<u=
></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have to laugh at the commentos who keeps=
 saying that the V8 takes up so much space that that&#39;s why they overhea=
t. Just look at today&#39;s cars and how they fill the engine bay and it be=
comes apparent this is another myth.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></d=
iv><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote style=
=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=
Yep.=C2=A0 I run in most cars with no problems but in the tiger with the 50=
0hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so had to switch off ev=
en back to water and antifreeze.=C2=A0 It worked sort of ok with the dale r=
adiator but then I switched to another brand radiator and it just couldn=E2=
=80=99t keep the temps down. =C2=A0 Pretty sure it would be doable with an =
efficient and lower power motor if all the other cooling problems were take=
n care of.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">Il gior=
no sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha s=
critto:</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-color:cur=
rentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none=
 none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;m=
argin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">In August of =
the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans in a =
Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of a rather=
 stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost 5-thousand mile r=
oad test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via I80/I90 to attend the=
 TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. Temperatures were frequentl=
y at 100 degrees. So it got quite a test.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif=
">The Evans did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior=
 specific heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine hea=
t.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">The carb got so hot the fuel per=
colated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine stalled lean. This weaknes=
s was exacerbated at altitudes above 4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs =
near 100 I ended up on the same AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then=
 gave up and reluctantly drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, =
replacing it with plain water so I could get home. However the percolation =
reoccurred crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I re=
placed the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion protection.=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">I don=E2=80=99t have the numbers o=
ff the top of my head but the specific heat (or ability to transfer heat) o=
f water is 1.00 while Evans is something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water=
. For me, Evans just did not do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say=
 one would have to be exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stoc=
k radiator system or with a more powerful engine which will place even more=
 demand on the Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we dr=
ove on that trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot ra=
diator fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a problem=
.)</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><=
u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">Buck Trippel</span><u></u><u></u></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;,serif">Ps I wrote up some of this years ago and I believ=
e it contained a more detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =
=E2=80=93 I think it was published in both the TEAE and CAT newletters.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p><div><div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor cu=
rrentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padd=
ing:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">From:</span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">=C2=A0T=
igers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=C2=A0<b>On Behalf Of=C2=A0</b>Dr. T=
. Y. McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b>=C2=A0Saturday, July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b>To:=
</b>=C2=A0Tiger&#39;s List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b>=C2=A0[Tiger=
s] Evans Waterless Cooling</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:rgb(51,51,51)">Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless =
Coolant?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(51,51,51)">It has a boiling point of 375 (F).=C2=A0 I&#39;d like to=
 hear from anyone who&#39;s using it as I&#39;m considering it.=C2=A0</span=
><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(=
51,51,51)">Thanks in advance,=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetic=
a&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Tym McDowell=C2=A0</span=
><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-bottom:12pt"><span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New R=
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[email-masked]

--===============5899266319397985635==--

---

From: "Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:05:08 -0400

--===============7090668911822359271==
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Mayfield

=20

This is an excellent review of the cooling article.   What we have here =
is a Thermodynamics problem and you are correct it needs more =
instrumentation to understand the data details.   Much more work is need =
to truly understand this problem.   There are way too many variables for =
most of us to comprehend and understand.

=20

Tiger Tom and company where mostly looking at the air flow through the =
radiator; this was their main concern and objective.  Air flow is a =
major key to cooling but not the only key.   Some of this study started =
at the SUNI, Snowmass gathering, we were looking at air flow only.

=20

The study presents a number of possible cures for the air flow problem.

=20

The 1st time I drove my Tiger from Rochester NY to a Buffalo car show I =
park the Tiger, shut the engine off and it puked, marking its spot.   =
Back then you could get the good Prestone dry chemical engine flush so I =
flushed the engine which helped.   I also had to spend about an hour =
flushing and back flushing the heater core until it ran clear.   Later, =
I rebuilt a water pump with a Motorsport impellor and install a 6 bladed =
fan and I have not had puking since.   =E2=80=9Cif it is not puking it =
is not over heating=E2=80=9D   I do pop the hood if I get into slow =
traffic to let hot air out.

=20

We all have a different take on the Tiger Cooling situation and we may =
all come up with a slightly different angle of approach.    Each =
approach needs to be written and exchanged so all can learn, understand =
and deal with this problem and possibly add new insight.

=20

I look at the Cooling Article as a starting point much like the article =
I wrote about the dipstick oil level conundrum.

=20

I did a quick experiment with an oil pan and oil pump pick up tube to =
see why the oil level always was higher than the mark on the dipstick.   =
I found that the angle of the engine means everything to the oil level.  =
 About 3 degrees of the engine tilted back, the oil level is at the =
mark, about 3 degrees down tilt to the front the oil level is high.

This was a quick and rough experiment to answer a number of questions =
people on this List had about the oil level.    I used a little =
precision but it was mostly a rough experiment; a starting point for =
anyone who might be curious to investigate it more. =20

=20

I see the same starting point with the Cooling issue.   More details =
equals more understanding.

=20

Never stop being curious about the little details and always write up =
what you did and how you did the work.

=20

Ron Fraser

=20

=20

=20

=20

From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Larry Mayfield =
via Tigers
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2022 12:22 PM
To: 'LARRY PAULICK' <[email-masked]>; 'Owain Lloyd' =
<[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Tigers

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Buck

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

Buck Trippel

=20

=20

=20

=20

Thanks in advance,=20

=20

Tym McDowell=20

Unsubscribe: =

Unsubscribe:  =

=20

=20

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Mayfield<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This is an =
excellent review of the cooling article.=C2=A0=C2=A0 What we have here =
is a Thermodynamics problem and you are correct it needs more =
instrumentation to understand the data details.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Much more =
work is need to truly understand this problem.=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are way =
too many variables for most of us to comprehend and =
understand.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Tiger Tom and company where mostly looking at the air =
flow through the radiator; this was their main concern and =
objective.=C2=A0 Air flow is a major key to cooling but not the only =
key.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Some of this study started at the SUNI, Snowmass =
gathering, we were looking at air flow only.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The study =
presents a number of possible cures for the air flow =
problem.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'>The 1<sup>st</sup> time I =
drove my Tiger from Rochester NY to a Buffalo car show I park the Tiger, =
shut the engine off and it puked, marking its spot.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Back =
then you could get the good Prestone dry chemical engine flush so I =
flushed the engine which helped.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I also had to spend about =
an hour flushing and back flushing the heater core until it ran =
clear.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Later, I rebuilt a water pump with a Motorsport =
impellor and install a 6 bladed fan and I have not had puking =
since.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9Cif it is not puking it is not over =
heating=E2=80=9D=C2=A0=C2=A0 I do pop the hood if I get into slow =
traffic to let hot air out.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>We all have =
a different take on the Tiger Cooling situation and we may all come up =
with a slightly different angle of approach.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Each =
approach needs to be written and exchanged so all can learn, understand =
and deal with this problem and possibly add new =
insight.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I look at the Cooling Article as a starting point much =
like the article I wrote about the dipstick oil level =
conundrum.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-indent:.5in'>I did a quick experiment =
with an oil pan and oil pump pick up tube to see why the oil level =
always was higher than the mark on the dipstick.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I found =
that the angle of the engine means everything to the oil =
level.=C2=A0=C2=A0 About 3 degrees of the engine tilted back, the oil =
level is at the mark, about 3 degrees down tilt to the front the oil =
level is high.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:.5in'>This was a quick and rough experiment to =
answer a number of questions people on this List had about the oil =
level.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I used a little precision but it was mostly a =
rough experiment; a starting point for anyone who might be curious to =
investigate it more.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> I see the =
same starting point with the Cooling issue.=C2=A0=C2=A0 More details =
equals more understanding.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Never stop =
being curious about the little details and always write up what you did =
and how you did the work.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ron =
Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Larry Mayfield =
via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 05, 2022 12:22 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
'LARRY PAULICK' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'Owain Lloyd' =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
[email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless =
Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you =
for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, =
i.e.&nbsp; =E2=80=9CTiger Tom and tiger cooling study=E2=80=9D and it =
was the first thing that popped up, lol.&nbsp; I have scanned it and =
will do a more detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I must say these experimenters did a =
pretty fair job at setting up and conducting the experiment and making =
comparisons.&nbsp; I am going to comment of the state of rigor for the =
experiment and what the, what I call missing, elements of the =
experiment, could mean to the final results.&nbsp; It is going to be =
long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It was =
<i>not</i> very rigorous, in my opinion.&nbsp; Let me explain, lest I be =
pilloried. &nbsp;There are many parameters for the air and coolant =
conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results =
which do not seem to have been addressed as the &nbsp;=E2=80=9CWhy does =
it overheat at idle?=E2=80=9D &nbsp;question, at least, I think that was =
the question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that =
these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager =
for a large Aerospace company and did a <b>lot</b> of test analyses =
preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce =
the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could =
be determined.&nbsp; What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good. =
<o:p></o:p></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0in' start=3D1 type=3DA><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'>The first thing was just how bad was the engine over heating at =
idle?&nbsp; The conditions should have contained a detailed description =
of the same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric conditions, the =
absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure (<u>not</u> baro), =
the humidity, and altitude, &nbsp;entering the system. The system is =
defined as everything surrounding the vehicle. &nbsp;Why is this =
important? Well, the conditions need to be replicated each time a test =
run is made. If you want to know that the changes made later have an =
effect, plus or minus.&nbsp; Take humidity, humid air has less air in =
it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the atmospheric make up and that =
means that the heat transfer rate is altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed =
by the <b>mass</b> of coolant flowing both in the system and then into =
the ambient air. &nbsp;The cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be =
calculated, with the help of =E2=80=98steam=E2=80=99 tables and charts =
with this data as to how well the ambient can cool something.&nbsp; Flow =
rate of the cooling air is a <b>key element</b> but so is the <b>actual =
mass</b> of the air (with humidity) that flows through the radiator and =
into the engine compartment, and then into the surrounding ambient =
air.&nbsp; Heat only flows from hot to cold and the smaller the =
difference, the less heat is removed. For instance: the air flow rate =
can be measured at some altitude with a low pressure but at seal level =
with the same conditions of temp have less mass. Again, it is <b>the =
mass</b> of and the particulars of the air=E2=80=99s make up that is =
important &nbsp;&nbsp;If the test was conducted in a closed room for the =
idle issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.&nbsp; &nbsp;If =
outside, the temp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the =
humidity to know how well the system was performing. <o:p></o:p></li><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'>The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.&nbsp; As has =
been stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding radiator =
antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from freezing, it =
also increases the boiling point. But it also adds protection to the =
iron and aluminum and other metallic components through which the =
coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the coolant could be =
made to determine just how effective it is as a heat transfer mechanism =
both in the engine and radiator at operating conditions. The flow rate =
through the radio need quantifying: a flow meter placed into the =
radiator water pump feed would be an excellent place to start. The flow =
rate with coolant out and the exit temperature and pressure measured, =
And the ambient conditions at that time, a better analysis of any =
changes can be made. &nbsp;It should be noted that there are two other =
methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is convection and =
conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the oil in the pan =
and pan, the head(s),&nbsp; and anything that has coolant in it all come =
into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the materials need to =
be acquired along with their surface area and external conditions found =
in order to get an accurate analysis.&nbsp; Another is radiation from =
the surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the infrared heat so =
to speak send heat out as photons heating everything the radiation =
touches. And convection, the air that cools the exterior of the engine =
as well as the engine bay must have air flow to remove the heat: =
&nbsp;those surfaces all need to be monitored as well. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Lastly, for me anyway, =
is the state of turn of the engine. The air fuel ration needs to be =
monitored and the engine put into the best operating performance it can =
achieve. For instance, a lean burn is hotter, so if the AFR is high then =
as most racer know, the system will melt pistons (been there, done =
that).&nbsp; The stochiometric air fuel ratio needs to be the same for =
every test.&nbsp; At the best burn value.&nbsp; Even a too rich burn can =
cause excess heat. The engine air inlet temp and air pressure should be =
monitored for analysis of fuel burn condition that leads to unexpected =
heat being generated. &nbsp;Flow meters on the engine air intake and =
fuel as well as air and fuel temperature are needed. =
<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:red;background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>Was the =
experiment invalid? No, it was not. It provided useful, information that =
many had not through about and there are things that were made to that =
should have changed the results more than they appeared to change. =
&nbsp;I congratulate them for the effort they put into this</span><span =
style=3D'color:red'>! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If I was to =
do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise =
parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the =
changeable components. &nbsp;I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 =
module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of =
pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,&nbsp; A good =
thermodynamics textbook and go at it. &nbsp;The Arduino IDE has a serial =
data output capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter =
which can display and record all &nbsp;the data channels virtually =
simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if needed for individual =
parameter display. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Or just =
drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an =
dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a =
repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion =
that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the =
cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 =
years of age and slowing way, way, down. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Mayf, twfs =
210.779 mph out the back door=E2=80=A6 <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>LARRY PAULICK via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b=
>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Sub=
ject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless =
source.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><blockquote =
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[email-masked]

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From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:20:05 -0400

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Darn forgot to send to list again

Ron

=20

From: Ron Fraser <[email-masked]>=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 10:19 AM
To: 'Robert Wanty' <[email-masked]>; 'Larry Mayfield' =
<[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

Bob

                Experiments by Ford and others show that there is =
minimal engine wear at 180 degrees.   Today I believe the thermostats =
are around 195 to 210 degrees.   This keeps all the fluids, oil and ATF, =
at optimum operating temp.

=20

I did some work for a friend on his 5.0L Mustang, a number of little =
upgrades.   One of the items was a 160 thermostat.   I spent about an =
hour telling him not to go there, that he would hate it but he insisted. =
  Later, he told me he hated it.   MPG was down and he had little cabin =
heat.

=20

Ron Fraser

=20

From: Tigers <[email-masked] =
Tigers
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling

=20

I have a MK1 with a 260 bored 0.030 over with a mild cam, headers, ford =
cast iron 4bbl intake, stock cooling system. The thermostat is a 160 and =
I was told that the cooling system would work better with a 180 =
thermostat because the system would work more efficiently and shed more =
heat at the higher temperature. Not sure if this is true but seems as =
though that may make sense.

I found that if the air temperature is below 70 the car runs around 120, =
above 80 degrees at cruising speed it stays around 160 and around 220 at =
idle. Not sure what happens when the air temperature is above 85  to 90 =
because it is no fun driving around in a microwave so I drive a backup =
911 with ac.

Bob

=20

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On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:19 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers =

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Buck

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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Darn =
forgot to send to list again<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Ron Fraser =
&lt;[email-masked]&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 06, 2022 =
10:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'Robert Wanty' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;; 'Larry =
Mayfield' &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Tigers] =
Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Bob<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Experiments by Ford and others show =
that there is minimal engine wear at 180 degrees.&nbsp;&nbsp; Today I =
believe the thermostats are around 195 to 210 degrees.&nbsp;&nbsp; This =
keeps all the fluids, oil and ATF, at optimum operating =
temp.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I did some work for a friend on his 5.0L Mustang, a =
number of little upgrades.&nbsp;&nbsp; One of the items was a 160 =
thermostat.&nbsp;&nbsp; I spent about an hour telling him not to go =
there, that he would hate it but he insisted.&nbsp;&nbsp; Later, he told =
me he hated it.&nbsp;&nbsp; MPG was down and he had little cabin =
heat.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ron Fraser<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Wanty via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Wednesday, July 06, 2022 7:32 AM<br><b>To:</b> Larry Mayfield &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b>=
 tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b=
>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
have a MK1 with a 260 bored 0.030 over with a mild cam, headers, ford =
cast iron 4bbl intake, stock cooling system. The thermostat is a 160 and =
I was told that the cooling system would work better with a 180 =
thermostat because the system would work more efficiently and shed more =
heat at the higher temperature. Not sure if this is true but seems as =
though that may make sense.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I found that if the air temperature is below 70 the =
car runs around 120, above 80 degrees at cruising speed it stays around =
160 and around 220 at idle. Not sure what happens when the air =
temperature is above 85&nbsp; to 90 because it is no fun driving around =
in a microwave so I drive a backup 911 with =
ac.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>My 2 cents on the =
subject.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Bob<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div =
id=3DDAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><table class=3DMsoNormalTable =
border=3D1 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE =
1.0pt'><tr><td width=3D55 =
style=3D'width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Dwebmail" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'text-decoration:none'><img border=3D0 =
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style=3D'width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:13.5pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>V=
irus-free. <a =
href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_sou=
rce=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Dwebmail" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'color:#4453EA'>www.avg.com</span></a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:19 PM Larry Mayfield via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thank you =
for the suggestion on finding the paper. I used exactly your suggestion, =
i.e.&nbsp; =E2=80=9CTiger Tom and tiger cooling study=E2=80=9D and it =
was the first thing that popped up, lol.&nbsp; I have scanned it and =
will do a more detailed review for myself as a bit of time goes on. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I must say =
these experimenters did a pretty fair job at setting up and conducting =
the experiment and making comparisons.&nbsp; I am going to comment of =
the state of rigor for the experiment and what the, what I call missing, =
elements of the experiment, could mean to the final results.&nbsp; It is =
going to be long winded, a natural tendency of mine, lol. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It was =
<i>not</i> very rigorous, in my opinion.&nbsp; Let me explain, lest I be =
pilloried.&nbsp; There are many parameters for the air and coolant =
conditions, the state of tune for the engine, that affect the results =
which do not seem to have been addressed as the &nbsp;=E2=80=9CWhy does =
it overheat at idle?=E2=80=9D &nbsp;question, at least, I think that was =
the question. So, just who the dickens am I to question anything that =
these men did? Well, I spent 30+ years as a test engineer and manager =
for a large Aerospace company and did a <b>lot</b> of test analyses =
preceded by test design to make sure that the UUT was set up to produce =
the spec conditions and thus the results as nearly as perfectly as could =
be determined.&nbsp; What these testers did was pretty dad gummed good. =
<o:p></o:p></p><ol start=3D1 type=3DA><li =
class=3Dgmail-m-4732738681393012823msolistparagraph style=3D'mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo3'>The first thing was just how bad was the engine over =
heating at idle?&nbsp; The conditions should have contained a detailed =
description of the same parameters used in the test. The atmospheric =
conditions, the absolute air temperature, the absolute air pressure =
(<u>not</u> baro), the humidity, and altitude, &nbsp;entering the =
system. The system is defined as everything surrounding the =
vehicle.&nbsp; Why is this important? Well, the conditions need to be =
replicated each time a test run is made. If you want to know that the =
changes made later have an effect, plus or minus.&nbsp; Take humidity, =
humid air has less air in it, lol. Water vapor is less dense that the =
atmospheric make up and that means that the heat transfer rate is =
altered. Wha? Yes, heat is absorbed by the <b>mass</b> of coolant =
flowing both in the system and then into the ambient air.&nbsp; The =
cooling air enthalpy and entropy can be calculated, with the help of =
=E2=80=98steam=E2=80=99 tables and charts with this data as to how well =
the ambient can cool something.&nbsp; Flow rate of the cooling air is a =
<b>key element</b> but so is the <b>actual mass</b> of the air (with =
humidity) that flows through the radiator and into the engine =
compartment, and then into the surrounding ambient air.&nbsp; Heat only =
flows from hot to cold and the smaller the difference, the less heat is =
removed. For instance: the air flow rate can be measured at some =
altitude with a low pressure but at seal level with the same conditions =
of temp have less mass. Again, it is <b>the mass</b> of and the =
particulars of the air=E2=80=99s make up that is important =
&nbsp;&nbsp;If the test was conducted in a closed room for the idle =
issue, then the air was a few degrees warmer.&nbsp; &nbsp;If outside, =
the temp and abs pressure (psia) is needed along with the humidity to =
know how well the system was performing. <o:p></o:p></li><li =
class=3Dgmail-m-4732738681393012823msolistparagraph style=3D'mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo3'>The engine coolant needs to be examined in detail.&nbsp; As =
has been stated, water is the VERY best heat transfer fluid. Adding =
radiator antifreeze is more than just to prevent the coolant from =
freezing, it also increases the boiling point. But it also adds =
protection to the iron and aluminum and other metallic components =
through which the coolant flows. An analysis for the constituents of the =
coolant could be made to determine just how effective it is as a heat =
transfer mechanism both in the engine and radiator at operating =
conditions. The flow rate through the radio need quantifying: a flow =
meter placed into the radiator water pump feed would be an excellent =
place to start. The flow rate with coolant out and the exit temperature =
and pressure measured, And the ambient conditions at that time, a better =
analysis of any changes can be made.&nbsp; It should be noted that there =
are two other methods of cooling that come into play as well. That is =
convection and conduction. The conduction of heat through the block, the =
oil in the pan and pan, the head(s),&nbsp; and anything that has coolant =
in it all come into play, so al the heat transfer coefficients of the =
materials need to be acquired along with their surface area and external =
conditions found in order to get an accurate analysis.&nbsp; Another is =
radiation from the surfaces of the engine. The heat signatures or the =
infrared heat so to speak send heat out as photons heating everything =
the radiation touches. And convection, the air that cools the exterior =
of the engine as well as the engine bay must have air flow to remove the =
heat: &nbsp;those surfaces all need to be monitored as well. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></li><li =
class=3Dgmail-m-4732738681393012823msolistparagraph style=3D'mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo3'>Lastly, for me anyway, is the state of turn of the engine. =
The air fuel ration needs to be monitored and the engine put into the =
best operating performance it can achieve. For instance, a lean burn is =
hotter, so if the AFR is high then as most racer know, the system will =
melt pistons (been there, done that).&nbsp; The stochiometric air fuel =
ratio needs to be the same for every test.&nbsp; At the best burn =
value.&nbsp; Even a too rich burn can cause excess heat. The engine air =
inlet temp and air pressure should be monitored for analysis of fuel =
burn condition that leads to unexpected heat being generated.&nbsp; Flow =
meters on the engine air intake and fuel as well as air and fuel =
temperature are needed. <o:p></o:p></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:red;background:yellow'>Was the experiment invalid? No, it =
was not. It provided useful, information that many had not through about =
and there are things that were made to that should have changed the =
results more than they appeared to change.&nbsp; I congratulate them for =
the effort they put into this</span><span style=3D'color:red'>! =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If I was to =
do this experiment today, I would use a lot of electronics for concise =
parameter recording and then do a deeper analysis of the effect of the =
changeable components.&nbsp; I would get myself an Arduino Mega 2560 =
module, a pile of temp sensors to stock on everything , a handful of =
pressure sensors, water and fuel flow meters,&nbsp; A good =
thermodynamics textbook and go at it.&nbsp; The Arduino IDE has a serial =
data output capability which can be recorded as well as a serial plotter =
which can display and record all &nbsp;the data channels virtually =
simultaneously. All can be exported to excel if needed for individual =
parameter display. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Or just =
drive and remind yourself that this car was designed a long time ago an =
dstuff just sometimes has to be accepted, lol. I would consider doing a =
repeat of the work done to date with my additions, except for the notion =
that I am not in the twilight of my years, but rather closer to the =
cinderela time, the clock is ticking now for sure at me approaching 81 =
years of age and slowing way, way, down. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mayf, twfs =
210.779 mph out the back door=E2=80=A6 <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor =
currentcolor'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
 Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>LARRY PAULICK via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 3, 2022 6:40 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dr. M, =
check the Tigers East Alpine East website or do a web search for Tiger =
Tom and tiger cooling study.&nbsp; This is a very good starting point =
for finding that study, others may have a direct =
source.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jul 3, =
2022, at 12:11 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Buck, I =
live in the southern alps :)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>40 Celsius =
and 2500m.&nbsp; But was doing the same at normal temps and =
altitudes.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Il giorno =
sab 2 lug 2022 alle 22:13 Buck Trippel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor =
rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Owain, have =
you encountered either high outside air temps or high altitudes when =
using Evans in your Tiger?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Buck<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor =
currentcolor'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
 Owain Lloyd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Saturday, July 2, 2022 8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Buck =
Trippel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Assuming =
all those things are done, evans is still not quite up to the job in my =
car.&nbsp; Most of those cooling tricks are for slow moving car.&nbsp; =
My car ran too hot even at speed with evans and the less than perfect =
radiator.&nbsp; As I said, with a better radiator or with water instead =
it is fine.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>My reason =
for preferring brass is that it can be easily soldered.&nbsp; I =
struggled on for a long time with my brass radiator but eventually it =
was just too stress fatigued and needed frequent repair.&nbsp; If I =
could get a new brass one I would certainly prefer =
that.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Il giorno =
sab 2 lug 2022 alle 17:36 LARRY PAULICK &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor =
rgb(204,204,204)'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Another =
issue is aluminum versus brass radiators.&nbsp; Aluminum radiators are =
lighter but &nbsp;brass transfers heat more =
efficiently.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>When I =
redid my tiger, I used a three row versus a stock two row brass =
retaining the top, bottom, and sides so that the fit was not =
affected.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Also if =
you're replacing or having overheating problems, a closed impeller type =
water pump is much more efficient. Some aftermarket companies sell them =
already set up this way, but you can buy just the impeller plate from =
Summit for a very low price and install it yourself. Pumping efficiency =
is greatly improved.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>TEAE did a =
study many years ago on all aspects of cooling. This excellent =
engineering study is still applicable today and well worth reading, =
dispelling a lot of myths.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Another =
design problem with the tiger is that there is no lower portion of the =
fan shroud. As a result, hot air is removed from the radiator then goes =
down to the ground and circles back through the front of the radiator, =
at rest.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I know this =
for a fact since I did smoke test and watched the air =
recirculating.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I =
fabricated a lower fan shroud from sheet metal, and made a low cost =
plastic air dam that comes down about 4 inches, to help the flow of air =
through the radiator and continue towards the rear of the car while in =
motion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Bottom line =
it all works and I don't overheat.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have to =
laugh at the commentos who keeps saying that the V8 takes up so much =
space that that's why they overheat. Just look at today's cars and how =
they fill the engine bay and it becomes apparent this is another =
myth.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/p></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Jul 2, =
2022, at 10:29 AM, Owain Lloyd &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>Yep.&nbsp; I run in most cars with no problems but in the =
tiger with the 500hp motor I needed every bit of efficiency possible so =
had to switch off even back to water and antifreeze.&nbsp; It worked =
sort of ok with the dale radiator but then I switched to another brand =
radiator and it just couldn=E2=80=99t keep the temps down. &nbsp; Pretty =
sure it would be doable with an efficient and lower power motor if all =
the other cooling problems were taken care =
of.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Il giorno =
sab 2 lug 2022 alle 16:05 Buck Trippel via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; ha =
scritto:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor =
rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>In August =
of the hot summer of 2019 (aren=E2=80=99t they all hot now?) I put Evans =
in a Tiger which has an excellent two row aluminum radiator in front of =
a rather stock 289. My wife and I put the Tiger through an almost =
5-thousand mile road test by driving from Los Angeles to La Crosse via =
I80/I90 to attend the TEAE United and then Route 66 on the way home. =
Temperatures were frequently at 100 degrees. So it got quite a =
test.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The Evans =
did not boil but with hot outside air temperatures its inferior specific =
heat (to water) could not remove adequately remove the engine =
heat.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>The carb =
got so hot the fuel percolated (boiled) inside the bowls and the engine =
stalled lean. This weakness was exacerbated at altitudes above =
4-thousand feet. In Pueblo, with OATs near 100 I ended up on the same =
AAA tow truck twice on the same day. I then gave up and reluctantly =
drained maybe half of the the costly coolant out, replacing it with =
plain water so I could get home. However the percolation reoccurred =
crossing the Mojave in the 115 degree August temps. At home I replaced =
the Evans with water, adding Water Wetter for corrosion =
protection.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>I =
don=E2=80=99t have the numbers off the top of my head but the specific =
heat (or ability to transfer heat) of water is 1.00 while Evans is =
something like .65 or only 2/3 that of water. For me, Evans just did not =
do the job. From my experience I=E2=80=99d say one would have to be =
exceptionally brave to use it, especially with a stock radiator system =
or with a more powerful engine which will place even more demand on the =
Tiger=E2=80=99s weak cooling system. (BTW in the Tiger we drove on that =
trip, we had removed the stock block under the carb that hot radiator =
fluid passes through which probably have made even more of a =
problem.)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Buck =
Trippel</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'>Ps I =
wrote up some of this years ago and I believe it contained a more =
detailed account of Evans heating issues on the trip =E2=80=93 I think =
it was published in both the TEAE and CAT =
newletters.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;&nbsp;<b>On =
Behalf Of&nbsp;</b>Dr. T. Y. McDowell<br><b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Saturday, =
July 2, 2022 5:06 AM<br><b>To:</b>&nbsp;Tiger's List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[=
Tigers] Evans Waterless Cooling</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Is anyone out there in Tigerland using Evans Waterless =
Coolant?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>It has a boiling point of 375 (F).&nbsp; I'd like to hear from anyone =
who's using it as I'm considering =
it.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Thanks in advance,&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#33333=
3'>Tym McDowell&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
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