Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brakes biting

From: Jeffery Randall via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 15:58:19 -0400

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Generally I find that happens on the rears when they get a little axle seal
leak.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 3:29 PM Jay via Tigers <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> On my drive today, I first noticed that when slowing to a stop, at the
> very last moment before stopping, the brakes seemed to have an extra bite=
.
> I didn=E2=80=99t notice anything at speed or during braking.  Just that l=
ast
> moment.  But once I lifted, it always stopped.  Then at one point, it
> seemed like it was biting a bit more.  Again, the second I lifted off the
> brakes it was fine.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> This is with stock brakes and servo.
>
> I almost want to say that it is only one front wheel.  But I=E2=80=99m no=
t sure.
> That would suggest caliper or hose.  But when those stick or bite, I don=
=E2=80=99t
> know that they release the second the pressure on the pedal is released.
> _______________________________________________
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Generally=C2=A0I find that happens on the rears when they =
get a little axle seal leak.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 3:29 PM Jay via Tiger=
s &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:=
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On my drive today, I first noticed that =
when slowing to a stop, at the very last moment before stopping, the brakes=
 seemed to have an extra bite.=C2=A0 I didn=E2=80=99t notice anything at sp=
eed or during braking.=C2=A0 Just that last moment.=C2=A0 But once I lifted=
, it always stopped.=C2=A0 Then at one point, it seemed like it was biting =
a bit more.=C2=A0 Again, the second I lifted off the brakes it was fine.<br=
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
This is with stock brakes and servo.<br>
<br>
I almost want to say that it is only one front wheel.=C2=A0 But I=E2=80=99m=
 not sure.=C2=A0 That would suggest caliper or hose.=C2=A0 But when those s=
tick or bite, I don=E2=80=99t know that they release the second the pressur=
e on the pedal is released.<br>
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From: Jay via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:33:55 -0700

I’m starting to suspect the hoses more.  There was another incident that was a bit different, and now that I think of it, points more to the hoses.

As I said before, as I was coming to a stop, with my foot on the brake, at the last second before coming to a complete stop, it seemed the brakes bit a little harder - like I pushed the brakes a tiny bit, even though I didn’t at all.  

My initial assumption was that there was a bubble in the rubber hose, increasing pressure.  But I discounted that since it stopped immediately when I lifted the pedal.  When I have heard about this before, I recall that the bubble kept the pressure up even after the pedal was released.  But every situation is different.  

This other incident was also at very low speed, just after I lifted the brakes and was coasting forward, I got a feeling like I was taping on the brakes repeatedly and the wheel was chirping.  It was very strange.  I don’t know the details to give more help on that.  

One other factor, I have braided stainless hoses, that are smaller OD and ID than stock rubber hoses.  

> On Apr 24, 2022, at 12:28 PM, Jay <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> On my drive today, I first noticed that when slowing to a stop, at the very last moment before stopping, the brakes seemed to have an extra bite.  I didn’t notice anything at speed or during braking.  Just that last moment.  But once I lifted, it always stopped.  Then at one point, it seemed like it was biting a bit more.  Again, the second I lifted off the brakes it was fine.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> I almost want to say that it is only one front wheel.  But I’m not sure.  That would suggest caliper or hose.  But when those stick or bite, I don’t know that they release the second the pressure on the pedal is released.

[email-masked]

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From: Jeffery Randall <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:44:18 -0400

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You have a differential lock on that? Chirping while turning?

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 5:34 PM Jay via Tigers <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I=E2=80=99m starting to suspect the hoses more.  There was another incide=
nt that
> was a bit different, and now that I think of it, points more to the hoses=
.
>
> As I said before, as I was coming to a stop, with my foot on the brake, a=
t
> the last second before coming to a complete stop, it seemed the brakes bi=
t
> a little harder - like I pushed the brakes a tiny bit, even though I didn=
=E2=80=99t
> at all.
>
> My initial assumption was that there was a bubble in the rubber hose,
> increasing pressure.  But I discounted that since it stopped immediately
> when I lifted the pedal.  When I have heard about this before, I recall
> that the bubble kept the pressure up even after the pedal was released.
> But every situation is different.
>
> This other incident was also at very low speed, just after I lifted the
> brakes and was coasting forward, I got a feeling like I was taping on the
> brakes repeatedly and the wheel was chirping.  It was very strange.  I
> don=E2=80=99t know the details to give more help on that.
>
.
ast
> > I almost want to say that it is only one front wheel.  But I=E2=80=99m =
not
> sure.  That would suggest caliper or hose.  But when those stick or bite,=
 I
> don=E2=80=99t know that they release the second the pressure on the pedal=
 is
> released.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">You have a differential=C2=A0lock on that? Chirping while =
turning?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 5:34 PM Jay via Tigers &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex">I=E2=80=99m starting to suspect the hoses more.=C2=A0 There wa=
s another incident that was a bit different, and now that I think of it, po=
ints more to the hoses.<br>
<br>
As I said before, as I was coming to a stop, with my foot on the brake, at =
the last second before coming to a complete stop, it seemed the brakes bit =
a little harder - like I pushed the brakes a tiny bit, even though I didn=
=E2=80=99t at all.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
My initial assumption was that there was a bubble in the rubber hose, incre=
asing pressure.=C2=A0 But I discounted that since it stopped immediately wh=
en I lifted the pedal.=C2=A0 When I have heard about this before, I recall =
that the bubble kept the pressure up even after the pedal was released.=C2=
=A0 But every situation is different.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
This other incident was also at very low speed, just after I lifted the bra=
kes and was coasting forward, I got a feeling like I was taping on the brak=
es repeatedly and the wheel was chirping.=C2=A0 It was very strange.=C2=A0 =
I don=E2=80=99t know the details to give more help on that.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
One other factor, I have braided stainless hoses, that are smaller OD and I=
D than stock rubber hoses.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On Apr 24, 2022, at 12:28 PM, Jay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jay.laifman@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On my drive today, I first noticed that when slowing to a stop, at the=
 very last moment before stopping, the brakes seemed to have an extra bite.=
=C2=A0 I didn=E2=80=99t notice anything at speed or during braking.=C2=A0 J=
ust that last moment.=C2=A0 But once I lifted, it always stopped.=C2=A0 The=
n at one point, it seemed like it was biting a bit more.=C2=A0 Again, the s=
econd I lifted off the brakes it was fine.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; This is with stock brakes and servo.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I almost want to say that it is only one front wheel.=C2=A0 But I=E2=
=80=99m not sure.=C2=A0 That would suggest caliper or hose.=C2=A0 But when =
those stick or bite, I don=E2=80=99t know that they release the second the =
pressure on the pedal is released.<br>
<br>
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From: Ron Fraser via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 20:06:53 -0400

Jay
	Brakes are a safety system.   Check and examine every part and every aspect of the brake system - assume nothing.

I would not think the SS hoses are the problem but again assume nothing.

Right now my thought is that you need to rebuild the Master brake cylinder and or the brake booster too.

You stated that the car stops when you release the pedal - that sounds like the Master Cylinder piston is moving back too slowly and not releasing the brake pressure.   

 I once had something similar to this - the spring in the Master was half worn on one side so the spring force and force angle was wrong.

 Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: Tigers <[email-masked]> On Behalf Of Jay via Tigers
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 5:34 PM
To: Tiger List Serve <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brakes biting

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Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

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From: Wayne Pierzga via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:10:23 +0000

Hi Jay

I was not aware you were using SS braided flex lines. If I recall these use a 'plastic' tube to carry the brake fluid. I don’t think these tubes delaminate/collapse like OEM rubber as they deteriorate.

So, I have another suggestion you may want to investigate. Is there an in-line vacuum check-valve between the carb and brake booster? If so this may be sticking and could be the source of the intermittent problems you describe.

Cheers
Wayne 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 5:34 PM
To: Tiger List Serve <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brakes biting

[email-masked]

---

From: GARY WINBLAD <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 12:53:33 -0400 (EDT)

You might also check...
Years ago I still had my original "yellow stripe" vacuum hose on my
servo.  Back behind the air cleaner where you couldn't see it, it had
become "soft".  When it got hot it sucked in and closed off the vacuum
to the servo until it cooled slightly.  Boost was intermittent.
Gary

> On 04/26/2022 11:10 AM Wayne Pierzga via Tigers <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi Jay
> 
> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: Jay via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 09:55:56 -0700

Both of these suggestions seem to track better with the symptoms.  And, FWIW, if I recall, dad was proud of the yellow stripe hose.  I’ll be checking it out this weekend.

Thanks guys.

Jay

> On Apr 26, 2022, at 9:53 AM, GARY WINBLAD <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> You might also check...

[email-masked]