Subject: Re: [Tigers] Distributor -> Oil Pump Shaft

From: R Flynn <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 15:32:29 -0400

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Another seemingly final update ... as a reminder
- Changed intake manifold (Edelbrock Performer, #2121)
- While doing so, discovered oil pump drive shaft was lacking the usual
retaining clip with the predictable result
- Dropped oil pan & sorted that out with a beefed up version (ARP 154-7904)
and 1 piece Fel-Pro oil pan gasket (OS 13260 T)
- Buttoned it all back up & tried firing it up

At this point it was clear that something was amiss with the electrics,
consulted this group for advice ...
- Solenoid activated but starter motor didn't engage
- Checked grounds, all clean, 2 grounding straps discovered
  (1 in the usual place, 1 between LH engine bay support & boss just below
cylinder head)
- Tested solenoid, fine
- That left the original starter motor which once removed was confirmed to
be non-functioning
- Replaced with Summit Racing Protorque (SUM-820055) mini starter
w/integrated solenoid
    - Goes in & out without needing to move or loosen headers, engine
mounts etc.
      (hopefully I'll never have to mess with it again, but if I do big
improvement)
    - Easy access to connections when installed
    - Existing solenoid effectively gets used as a junction block (minimal
rewiring)
    - Finally got a look at the block's casting code (C5AE-6015E)
      (engine isn't original to the car, always wondered ...)
- Fired it up and after a few backfires, got the timing sorted

Of course this is when the heater valve decided to start leaking
aggressively ... classic stuff, replacement will be ordered shortly,
installed, and then I will revisit the timing *just to be sure*.

Cheers to all who have replied on the list & directly - you have all been
most helpful!

On Sun, 20 Sep 2020 at 11:08, R Flynn <[email-masked]> wrote:

> UPDATE & some additional questions after a 6 week hiatus for bruised ribs
> to heal ...
> - Put car up on stands, dropped oil pan
> - No retaining clip to be found on oil pump driveshaft or in pan
>   (either never there or fractured & came out with a previous oil change
> perhaps)
> - New, beefier shaft *with* retaining clip appropriately placed (& new
> gasket) installed
> - Buttoned everything back up, distributor straightforward to install now=
,
> found TDC in preparation for retiming, etc.
>   (FelPro 1 piece oil pan gasket w/snap screws makes things convenient,
> nice bit of design)
>
> Turned key, and got a big click sounding like starter is under load but
> certainly not spinning ... hence the following questions
>
> 1) Any suggestions as to cause?
> - Battery is fully charged, just came off conditioner
> - Solenoid is less than 2Y old
> - The starting system electrics were working fine before this adventure
> began
>
> 2) Is it easier to just pull the oil pan again or get the starter out (vs
> headers)?
> - It won't come out with headers & oil pan in situ
> - I am working with in up on floor stands, creeper height in a narrow
> garage space
> - *Since* I just pulled the oil pan, that seems like the most efficient
> route (and I suspect the FelPro gasket will be fine)
> - Plus another gift from the previous builder is a sheared off (small) oi=
l
> pan bolt on the front port corner (just next to the larger end bolt) that=
 I
> really should Easy Out, will be easier with oil pan removed (was leaving =
it
> for another day ...)
>
> 3) Any recommendations on whether one of those  "mini starters" would be =
a
> good replacement & easier to get in / out without having to remove engine
> mounts, headers, or oil pans etc?
> - DaleA put a Tremec TKO 5 speed in a few years ago for context
>
> Cheers in advance,
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 at 19:47, R Flynn <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> In trying to replace the distributor after changing my intake manifold o=
n
>> the =E2=80=9865 289 in my Tiger, I am struggling to get it to slide down=
 over the
>> oil pump shaft, which seems to be leaning over.
>> - tried jiggling the rotor
>> - tried turning the crank with a ratchet while applying gentle pressure
>> to the distributor, though I was doing both
>> - tried using a long socket & extension to put the oil pump shaft itself
>> in different orientations
>>
>> My next attempts will involve
>> - having someone else push down while I turn the crap with a ratchet
>> - trying to pack some grease around the shaft with a screwdriver prior t=
o
>> inserting the distributor to keep the oil pump shaft more centered
>>
>> Would welcome any suggestions, solutions, or words of wisdom.
>>
>> Cheers in advance,
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> --
>> rick
>> B9471206: http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/default.asp
>>
>
>
> --
> rick
> B9471206: http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/default.asp
>

--=20
rick
B9471206: http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/default.asp

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Ano=
ther seemingly final update ... as a reminder</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:small">- Changed intake manifold (Edelbrock Perform=
er, #2121)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Wh=
ile doing so, discovered oil pump drive shaft was lacking the usual retaini=
ng clip with the predictable result</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">- Dropped oil pan &amp; sorted that out with a beefed =
up version (ARP 154-7904) and 1 piece Fel-Pro oil pan gasket (OS 13260 T)</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Buttoned it al=
l back up &amp; tried firing it up</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-s=
ize:small">At this point it was clear that something was amiss with the ele=
ctrics, consulted this group for advice ...</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-size:small">- Solenoid activated but starter motor didn&#3=
9;t engage</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Ch=
ecked grounds, all clean, 2 grounding straps discovered</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 (1 in the usual place, 1 be=
tween LH engine bay support &amp; boss just below cylinder head)</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Tested solenoid, fine</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- That left the =
original starter motor which once removed was confirmed to be non-functioni=
ng</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Replaced w=
ith=C2=A0Summit Racing Protorque (SUM-820055) mini starter w/integrated sol=
enoid</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 - Goes in &amp; out without needing to move or loosen headers, engin=
e mounts etc.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (hopefully I&#39;ll never have to mess with it again, =
but if I do big improvement)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-size:small">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Easy access to connections when installed</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Ex=
isting solenoid effectively gets used as a junction block (minimal rewiring=
)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 - Finally got a look at the block&#39;s casting code (C5AE-6015E)</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (e=
ngine isn&#39;t original to the car, always wondered ...)</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Fired it up and after a few =
backfires, got the timing sorted</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size=
:small">Of course this is when the heater valve decided to start leaking ag=
gressively ... classic stuff, replacement will be ordered shortly, installe=
d, and then I will revisit the timing *just to be sure*.</div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-size:small">Cheers to all who have replied on the list =
&amp; directly - you have all been most helpful!</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"></div></div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun,=
 20 Sep 2020 at 11:08, R Flynn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small">UPDATE &amp; some additional questions after =
a 6 week hiatus for bruised ribs to heal ...</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small">- Put car up on stands, dropped oil pan</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- No retaining clip =
to be found on oil pump driveshaft or in pan</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 (either never there or fractured &amp;=
 came out with a previous oil change perhaps)</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:small">- New, beefier shaft *with* retaining clip a=
ppropriately placed (&amp; new gasket) installed</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-size:small">- Buttoned everything back up, distributo=
r straightforward to install now, found TDC in preparation for retiming, et=
c.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=C2=A0 (FelP=
ro 1 piece oil pan gasket w/snap screws makes things convenient, nice bit o=
f design)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Turned key, and=
 got a big click sounding like starter is under load but certainly not spin=
ning ... hence the following questions</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-size:small">1) Any suggestions as to cause?</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-size:small">- Battery is fully charged, just came off co=
nditioner</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Sol=
enoid is less than 2Y old</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-s=
ize:small">- The starting system electrics were working fine before this ad=
venture began</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">2) Is it ea=
sier to just pull the oil pan again or get the starter out (vs headers)?</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- It won&#39;t co=
me out with headers &amp; oil pan in situ</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-size:small">- I am working with in up on floor stands, creep=
er height in a narrow garage space</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small">- *Since* I just pulled the oil pan, that seems like t=
he most efficient route (and I suspect the FelPro gasket will be fine)</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">- Plus another gift=
 from the previous builder is a sheared off (small) oil pan bolt on the fro=
nt port corner (just next to the larger end bolt) that I really should Easy=
 Out, will be easier with oil pan removed (was leaving it for another day .=
..)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">3) Any recommendation=
s on whether one of those=C2=A0 &quot;mini starters&quot; would be a good r=
eplacement &amp; easier to get in / out without having to remove engine mou=
nts, headers, or oil pans etc?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-size:small">- DaleA put a Tremec TKO 5 speed in a few years ago for con=
text</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Cheers in advance,</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Rick</div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, 12 Aug 2=
020 at 19:47, R Flynn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">In trying to replace the distribut=
or after changing my intake manifold on the =E2=80=9865 289 in my Tiger, I =
am struggling to get it to slide down over the oil pump shaft, which seems =
to be leaning over.</div><div dir=3D"auto">- tried jiggling the rotor</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">- tried turning the crank with a ratchet while applying g=
entle pressure to the distributor, though I was doing both</div><div dir=3D=
"auto">- tried using a long socket &amp; extension to put the oil pump shaf=
t itself in different orientations</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">My next attempts will involve</div><div dir=3D"auto">- having so=
meone else push down while I turn the crap with a ratchet</div><div dir=3D"=
auto">- trying to pack some grease around the shaft with a screwdriver prio=
r to inserting the distributor to keep the oil pump shaft more centered</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Would welcome any suggestio=
ns, solutions, or words of wisdom.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">Cheers in advance,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Rick</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr">rick<br=
>B9471206: <a href=3D"http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/default.=
asp" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/default=
.asp</a></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>rick<br>B9471206: <a href=3D"http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/=
default.asp" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r=
/default.asp</a></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>rick<br>B9471206: <a href=3D"http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r/=
default.asp" target=3D"_blank">http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/flynn_r=
/default.asp</a></div>

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