Subject: [Tigers] Actual Frame measurements - don't think I need to replace the front clip.

From: daniel doornbos via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:57:49 +0000

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All,  after being suggested to get a donor car and splice in the FE I insta=
ntly started looking for said donor.  But after thinking about it for a bit=
 I decided I should quantify the issue and made my own measurements.  Car w=
ent up on jackstands, FE off with body set to level.  I used a plumb bob an=
d marked the garage floor, then remounted the cross member and moved the ca=
r out of the way and measured and triangulated and calculated the front x-m=
ember positions left/right/forward/aft relative to the rear end front leaf =
spring mounts.  The key assumption here is the rear end front leaf spring m=
ounts as the reference points are true and square.  I think this is a good =
assumption.  two photos here of the plumb bob and final floor marking:  htt=
ps://goo.gl/photos/aKccfJmt2aQ166bM9

Based on the measurements I made to get to a perfect state I would make the=
 below adjustments.  At this point they might all be in tolerance, but they=
 could be a little better.  A good frame shop should be able to make these =
adjustments I think.  I don't think this level of offset demands a full fro=
nt clip replacement.

  *   Frame adjustments needed
     *   Front passenger frame x-member mounts need pulled 0.3 forward.
     *   Rear passenger x-member mount lower by 0.2 (front no change in ele=
vation)
     *   Driver front x-member mount position move 0.25 toward passenger si=
de and passenger side move 0.35
     *   Driver rear x-member mount position move 0.2 toward passenger side=
 and passenger side move 0.5
Body as measured

  *   Front x-member mount width is 24.19 vs spec of 24.32 (delta 0.13)
  *   Rear x-member mount width is 22.25 vs spec of 22.56 (delta 0.31)
  *   Engine mount width 22.25 vs 22.34 (delta 0.1)
  *   Both Driver/Passenger distance between front rear x-member mounts 6" =
vs. spec 6"
  *   Driver x-member delta height front minus rear mounts 0.31 vs. spec of=
 0.48
  *   Passenger Delta height front x minus rear x-member 0.125 vs. spec of =
0.48
  *   Rear wheel spring to front x-member mount;  driver side 71.31 passeng=
er 70.95 delta 0.36
  *   Rear wheel spring to rear x-member mount; driver side 65.35 passenger=
 65.08 delta 0.27
  *   Width spacing rear spring mount inward to x-member front mounts; 5.8 =
passenger and 5.2 driver delta 0.6
  *   Width spacing rear spring mount inward to x-member rear mounts; 6.8 p=
assenger and 6.0 driver delta 0.8

The car was wrecked and looks like the repair was pretty good. It visually =
looks worse than it is by my measurements.  I also did this full process tw=
ice.  After the first time I thought I could be more precise with both plum=
 bob placement and measurements.  Both were very close to each other but th=
ese measurements I think are accurate.

dan

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<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-=
size: 12pt;">All, &nbsp;after being suggested to get a donor car and splice=
 in&nbsp;the FE I instantly started looking for said donor. &nbsp;But after=
 thinking about it for a bit&nbsp;I decided I should quantify
 the issue and made my own measurements. &nbsp;Car went&nbsp;up on jackstan=
ds, FE off with body&nbsp;set to level. &nbsp;I used a plumb bob and marked=
 the garage&nbsp;floor, then remounted the cross member and&nbsp;moved the =
car out of the way and measured&nbsp;and triangulated and calculated
 the front x-member&nbsp;positions left/right/forward/aft relative to the r=
ear end front leaf&nbsp;spring mounts. &nbsp;The key assumption here is the=
 rear end front leaf spring mounts as the reference points are true and squ=
are. &nbsp;I think this is a good assumption. &nbsp;two photos
 here of the plumb bob and final floor marking: &nbsp;<a href=3D"https://go=
o.gl/photos/aKccfJmt2aQ166bM9" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"LPlnk461542" pre=
viewremoved=3D"true">https://goo.gl/photos/aKccfJmt2aQ166bM9</a></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-=
size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><font face=3D"Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 12pt;">Based on the measurements I made to get to a perfect state I =
would make the below adjustments</span></font><font face=3D"Calibri, Arial,=
 Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">.
 &nbsp;At this point they might all be in tolerance, but t</span></font><fo=
nt face=3D"Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 12pt;">hey could be a little better. &nbsp;A good frame shop should be abl=
e to make these&nbsp;</span>adjustments<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">&nb=
sp;I
 think. &nbsp;I don't think this level of offset demands a full front clip =
replacement.</span></font><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"In=
tel Clear, sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></span></p>
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<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; margin-top: 0in;">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Intel C=
lear&quot;,sans-serif">Frame adjustments needed</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span>
<ul>
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"">Front passenger frame x-member mounts ne=
ed pulled 0.3 forward.</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"">Rear passenge=
r&nbsp;x-member mount lower by 0.2&nbsp;(front no change in elevation)</li>=
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"">Driver front x-member mount position mov=
e 0.25 toward passenger side and passenger side move 0.35</li><li class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"">Driver rear x-member mount position move 0.2 toward p=
assenger side and passenger side move 0.5</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-=
family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Body as meas=
ured&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Cle=
ar&quot;,sans-serif"></span></p>
<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; margin-top: 0in;">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Intel C=
lear&quot;,sans-serif">Front x-member mount width is 24.19 vs spec of 24.32=
 (delta 0.13)</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Inte=
l Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Rear x-member mount width is&nbsp;<span style=
=3D"background:yellow">22.25 vs spec of 22.56 (delta 0.31)</span></span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-seri=
f"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Engine mount width 22.25 vs 22.34 (delta 0.1)</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,s=
ans-serif"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Both Driver/Passenger distance between front re=
ar x-member mounts 6&quot; vs. spec 6&quot;</span><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Driver x-member delta height front minus rear m=
ounts 0.31 vs. spec of 0.48</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Passenger Delta height front x minus rear x-mem=
ber&nbsp;<span style=3D"background:yellow">0.125 vs. spec of 0.48</span></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sa=
ns-serif"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Rear wheel spring to front x-member mount;&nbsp=
; driver side 71.31 passenger 70.95 delta&nbsp;<span style=3D"background:ye=
llow">0.36</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;=
Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span>
</li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;In=
tel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Rear wheel spring to rear x-member mount;&nbsp;=
driver side 65.35 passenger 65.08 delta&nbsp;<span style=3D"background:yell=
ow">0.27&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&q=
uot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D""><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Width =
spacing rear spring mount inward&nbsp;to x-member front mounts;&nbsp;5.8 pa=
ssenger&nbsp;and 5.2 driver delta&nbsp;<span style=3D"background:yellow">0.=
6&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Int=
el Clear&quot;,sans-serif"></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><=
span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot;,sans-serif">Width spacing=
 rear spring mount inward to x-member rear mounts;&nbsp;6.8 passenger and 6=
.0&nbsp;driver delta&nbsp;<span style=3D"background:yellow">0.8&nbsp;</span=
></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Intel Clear&quot=
;,sans-serif"></span></li></ul>
<div><font face=3D"Intel Clear, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;=
">The car was wrecked and looks like the repair was pretty good. It visuall=
y looks worse than it is by my measurements. &nbsp;I also did this full pro=
cess twice. &nbsp;After the first time I thought
 I could be more precise with both plum bob placement and measurements. &nb=
sp;Both were very close to each&nbsp;other but these measurements I think a=
re&nbsp;</span>accurate<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">.</span></font></di=
v>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily: &quot;Intel Clear&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt;"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily: &quot;Intel Clear&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">dan</span><br>
</div>
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ear, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
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ear, sans-serif"><br>
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