Subject: Re: [Tigers] Starting on My tiger after 20yrs - Rear end

From: Larry Paulick via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 10:25:03 -0400

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Don=E2=80=99t know if list fixed, but getting more emails now. =20

BTW, this is finally good Tiger info, and worth the read.  Good Job.

Larry
> On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Doornbos, Daniel via Tigers =
<[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> Well if the Tiger list wants activity I=E2=80=99m ready to trigger a =
discussion.
> =20
> My Tiger shell has sat garaged for 20yrs and I=E2=80=99ve finally =
started this week.  I=E2=80=99ve had prior starts as well but this time =
it=E2=80=99s real as the car is on jack stands and the tires, hood, =
trunk, windshield removed.  I=E2=80=99ve saved 100=E2=80=99s of e-mails =
to word docs and have a pretty good idea of where and how I am going to =
do this.  I=E2=80=99m starting at the back of the car and working =
forward, mechanical systems only let=E2=80=99s get this car on the road! =
 I=E2=80=99ve got one of the bolt in FE from Mike H and get to do what I =
want for spindle and bolt pattern up front so the question is what to do =
with the rear end?  Lots of info available on disk brakes and don=E2=80=99=
t think that will be too tricky.  With a 5 spd conversion planned I=E2=80=99=
ll put in a new posi unit with 2.73 gears.    I also have a Dan W torque =
arm set up to install and will be removing the panhard rod and traction =
masters.
> =20
> In my notes though I see comments about weakness of the two piece =
axle.  Sandy G had a custom rear end made and posted that info here =
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html =
<http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html> .  I=E2=80=99ve=
 got another e-mail saved that sums it up best from =E2=80=9Cbt=E2=80=9D =
about, =E2=80=9CDoane welded the ends off an AH 3000 onto a Dana 23 =
housing from a Studebaker. The result was a full floating axle with a =
one piece axle. I had a pair of axles made for it over 12 years ago and =
those are still running great with many thousands of high G racing =
miles. The advantage of the full floating design is that if the axle =
were to fail the wheel would not separate from the car. The LAT 43 piece =
looks like it would bolt onto the Dana 44 Tiger housing but take the =
outer pieces (bearings, seals) from the AH.
> =20
> The stock Tiger rear end axle design has "bugged" racers since =
inception. Last Saturday Ted Sutton stopped by the Tiger pits at Willow. =
(For those not familiar with Ted, he was the crew chief on the Shelby =
American race Tiger. He also built the first 427 Cobra.) His first =
question was, "Are these Tigers still using that silly two piece axle =
design with a key way?" We told him most are. He just shook his head.=E2=80=
=9D
> =20
> I=E2=80=99m far from an expert on rear end design and options.  =46rom =
what I read and my plans to build a high hp street car, as opposed to a =
full on race car, should I do something with the stock rear end?  Is =
this as simple as turning up at the local 4x4 shop and at a minimum =
getting a single piece axel made?  I don=E2=80=99t want to change =
housing because I have the Dan Walter set up ready to install on the =
Dana 44.  Or is the stock axel not such a worry?
> =20
> Thanks
> dan
> =20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive <http://www.team.net/archive>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Don=E2=80=99t know if list fixed, but getting more emails =
now. &nbsp;<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">BTW, =
this is finally good Tiger info, and worth the read. &nbsp;Good =
Job.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Larry<br =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jun 10, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Doornbos, Daniel via Tigers &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
class=3D"">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Intel =
Clear" size=3D"2" style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Well if the Tiger list wants activity I=E2=80=99m ready to =
trigger a discussion.</div><div class=3D"">&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">My =
Tiger shell has sat garaged for 20yrs and I=E2=80=99ve finally started =
this week.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve had prior starts as well but this time =
it=E2=80=99s real as the car is on jack stands and the tires, hood, =
trunk, windshield removed.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve saved 100=E2=80=99s of =
e-mails to word docs and have a pretty good idea of where and how I am =
going to do this.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99m starting at the back of the car and =
working forward, mechanical systems only let=E2=80=99s get this car on =
the road!&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve got one of the bolt in FE from Mike H and =
get to do what I want for spindle and bolt pattern up front so the =
question is what to do with the rear end?&nbsp; Lots of info available =
on disk brakes and don=E2=80=99t think that will be too tricky.&nbsp; =
With a 5 spd conversion planned I=E2=80=99ll put in a new posi unit with =
2.73 gears.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I also have a Dan W torque arm set up to =
install and will be removing the panhard rod and traction =
masters.</div><div class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D""><font size=3D"2" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt;" class=3D"">In my notes =
though I see comments about weakness of the two piece axle.&nbsp; Sandy =
G had a custom rear end made and posted that info here<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html" =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#0563C1" class=3D""><u =
class=3D"">http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html</u></f=
ont></a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>.&nbsp; =
I=E2=80=99ve got another e-mail saved that sums it up best from =E2=80=9Cb=
t=E2=80=9D about, =E2=80=9C<font face=3D"Consolas" class=3D"">Doane =
welded the ends off an AH 3000 onto a Dana 23 housing from a Studebaker. =
The result was a full floating axle with a one piece axle. I had a pair =
of axles made for it over 12 years ago and those are still running great =
with many thousands of high G racing miles. The advantage of the full =
floating design is that if the axle were to fail the wheel would not =
separate from the car. The LAT 43 piece looks like it would bolt onto =
the Dana 44 Tiger housing but take the outer pieces (bearings, seals) =
from the AH.</font></span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt;" class=3D"">The stock Tiger rear end axle design has "bugged" =
racers since inception. Last Saturday Ted Sutton stopped by the Tiger =
pits at Willow. (For those not familiar with Ted, he was the crew chief =
on the Shelby American race Tiger. He also built the first 427 Cobra.) =
His first question was, "Are these Tigers still using that silly two =
piece axle design with a key way?" We told him most are. He just shook =
his head.=E2=80=9D</span></font></div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m=
 far from an expert on rear end design and options.&nbsp; =46rom what I =
read and my plans to build a high hp street car, as opposed to a full on =
race car, should I do something with the stock rear end?&nbsp; Is this =
as simple as turning up at the local 4x4 shop and at a minimum getting a =
single piece axel made?&nbsp; I don=E2=80=99t want to change housing =
because I have the Dan Walter set up ready to install on the Dana =
44.&nbsp; Or is the stock axel not such a worry?</div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks</div><div class=3D"">dan</div><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D"Calibri" class=3D"">&nbsp;</font></div></span></font><span =
style=3D"font-family: Times-Roman; font-size: 36px; font-style: normal; =
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!important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Times-Roman; font-size: 36px; font-style: normal; =
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Times-Roman; font-size: 36px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
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From: Mark Rense via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 10:12:13 -0400

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Well Dan, first of all congratulations on getting your Tiger project "off
the ground" and started. There are several of us here that run high
horsepower (350+) using the Dana 44 rear end on the street without issues. I
chose to go with the wide ratio Toploader and 2.72:1 gear set with posi
(thanks Gary), and with Dale's rear springs. The car has over 9K miles with
this setup, launches well and is great fun in the twisties.

I used the Yukon 19 spline rebuild kit
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-14022  and had it assembled by a
great race shop www.henselsgearage.com

If you are going to race the car you've raised the ante and will have to
look into a beefed-up 8.8 or custom setup from Moser or Strange. That also
means tearing up your car to make new attachment points, those mods are not
usually reversible. Just remember that on a reasonably stock Tiger you're
limited on tire width so traction is always the limiting factor.

Mark

From: Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Doornbos,
Daniel via Tigers
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 1:57 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Tigers] Starting on My tiger after 20yrs - Rear end

Well if the Tiger list wants activity I'm ready to trigger a discussion.

My Tiger shell has sat garaged for 20yrs and I've finally started this week.
I've had prior starts as well but this time it's real as the car is on jack
stands and the tires, hood, trunk, windshield removed.  I've saved 100's of
e-mails to word docs and have a pretty good idea of where and how I am going
to do this.  I'm starting at the back of the car and working forward,
mechanical systems only let's get this car on the road!  I've got one of the
bolt in FE from Mike H and get to do what I want for spindle and bolt
pattern up front so the question is what to do with the rear end?  Lots of
info available on disk brakes and don't think that will be too tricky.  With
a 5 spd conversion planned I'll put in a new posi unit with 2.73 gears.    I
also have a Dan W torque arm set up to install and will be removing the
panhard rod and traction masters.

In my notes though I see comments about weakness of the two piece axle.
Sandy G had a custom rear end made and posted that info here
<http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html>
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html .  I've got another
e-mail saved that sums it up best from "bt" about, "Doane welded the ends
off an AH 3000 onto a Dana 23 housing from a Studebaker. The result was a
full floating axle with a one piece axle. I had a pair of axles made for it
over 12 years ago and those are still running great with many thousands of
high G racing miles. The advantage of the full floating design is that if
the axle were to fail the wheel would not separate from the car. The LAT 43
piece looks like it would bolt onto the Dana 44 Tiger housing but take the
outer pieces (bearings, seals) from the AH.

The stock Tiger rear end axle design has "bugged" racers since inception.
Last Saturday Ted Sutton stopped by the Tiger pits at Willow. (For those not
familiar with Ted, he was the crew chief on the Shelby American race Tiger.
He also built the first 427 Cobra.) His first question was, "Are these
Tigers still using that silly two piece axle design with a key way?" We told
him most are. He just shook his head."

I'm far from an expert on rear end design and options.  From what I read and
my plans to build a high hp street car, as opposed to a full on race car,
should I do something with the stock rear end?  Is this as simple as turning
up at the local 4x4 shop and at a minimum getting a single piece axel made?
I don't want to change housing because I have the Dan Walter set up ready to
install on the Dana 44.  Or is the stock axel not such a worry?

Thanks

dan

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A'>Well Dan, first of all congratulations on getting your Tiger project =
&#8220;off the ground&#8221; and started. There are several of us here =
that run high horsepower (350+) using the Dana 44 rear end on the street =
without issues. I chose to go with the wide ratio Toploader and 2.72:1 =
gear set with posi (thanks Gary), and with Dale&#8217;s rear springs. =
The car has over 9K miles with this setup, launches well and is great =
fun in the twisties.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'> I used the Yukon 19 spline rebuild kit &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-14022">https://www.summitr=
acing.com/parts/yga-14022</a>&nbsp; and had it assembled by a great race =
shop <a =
href=3D"http://www.henselsgearage.com">www.henselsgearage.com</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'>If you are going to race the car you&#8217;ve raised the ante and =
will have to look into a beefed-up 8.8 or custom setup from Moser or =
Strange. That also means tearing up your car to make new attachment =
points, those mods are not usually reversible. Just remember that on a =
reasonably stock Tiger you&#8217;re limited on tire width so traction is =
always the limiting factor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'>Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546=
A'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Tigers [mailto:[email-masked]] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Doornbos, Daniel via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 10, 2016 =
1:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> [email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> [Tigers] =
Starting on My tiger after 20yrs - Rear =
end<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel Clear","serif"'>Well if the =
Tiger list wants activity I&#8217;m ready to trigger a =
discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel Clear","serif"'>&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'>My Tiger shell has sat garaged for 20yrs and I&#8217;ve =
finally started this week.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve had prior starts as well but =
this time it&#8217;s real as the car is on jack stands and the tires, =
hood, trunk, windshield removed.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve saved 100&#8217;s of =
e-mails to word docs and have a pretty good idea of where and how I am =
going to do this.&nbsp; I&#8217;m starting at the back of the car and =
working forward, mechanical systems only let&#8217;s get this car on the =
road!&nbsp; I&#8217;ve got one of the bolt in FE from Mike H and get to =
do what I want for spindle and bolt pattern up front so the question is =
what to do with the rear end?&nbsp; Lots of info available on disk =
brakes and don&#8217;t think that will be too tricky.&nbsp; With a 5 spd =
conversion planned I&#8217;ll put in a new posi unit with 2.73 =
gears.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I also have a Dan W torque arm set up to =
install and will be removing the panhard rod and traction =
masters.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'>In my notes though I see comments about weakness of the =
two piece axle.&nbsp; Sandy G had a custom rear end made and posted that =
info here <a =
href=3D"http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_swap.html"><span =
style=3D'color:#0563C1'>http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/sunbeam_tiger_axle_sw=
ap.html</span></a> .&nbsp; I&#8217;ve got another e-mail saved that sums =
it up best from &#8220;bt&#8221; about, &#8220;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>Doane welded the ends =
off an AH 3000 onto a Dana 23 housing from a Studebaker. The result was =
a full floating axle with a one piece axle. I had a pair of axles made =
for it over 12 years ago and those are still running great with many =
thousands of high G racing miles. The advantage of the full floating =
design is that if the axle were to fail the wheel would not separate =
from the car. The LAT 43 piece looks like it would bolt onto the Dana 44 =
Tiger housing but take the outer pieces (bearings, seals) from the =
AH.</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas'>The stock Tiger rear end =
axle design has &quot;bugged&quot; racers since inception. Last Saturday =
Ted Sutton stopped by the Tiger pits at Willow. (For those not familiar =
with Ted, he was the crew chief on the Shelby American race Tiger. He =
also built the first 427 Cobra.) His first question was, &quot;Are these =
Tigers still using that silly two piece axle design with a key =
way?&quot; We told him most are. He just shook his =
head.&#8221;</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'>I&#8217;m far from an expert on rear end design and =
options.&nbsp; From what I read and my plans to build a high hp street =
car, as opposed to a full on race car, should I do something with the =
stock rear end?&nbsp; Is this as simple as turning up at the local 4x4 =
shop and at a minimum getting a single piece axel made?&nbsp; I =
don&#8217;t want to change housing because I have the Dan Walter set up =
ready to install on the Dana 44.&nbsp; Or is the stock axel not such a =
worry?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'>dan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Intel =
Clear","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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[email-masked]

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