Subject: Re: [Tigers] Tiger elec components with non-factory wiring?

From: Tom Parker via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:00:53 -0500

Cullen,

Check out British wiring (http://www.britishwiring.com/). they have exact
replacements for the original wiring harnesses. It's easy to add fuses
where needed and still keep the car close to "stock."

Tom
'67 Mark 2

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Cullen McCann via Tigers <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> Guys, I am interested in using an aftermarket wiring approach for my Mk1a
> Tiger, like Painless wiring. I haven't dove into the fundamental design
> basics of lucas and jaeger electronics..etc, but if reputation was all I
> had to go from, I am expecting it to be complicated.
>
> Can a system with conventional circuit protection, fuses etc like a
> painless harness be adapted to all the electrical and instrumentation? Is
> there any support out there for that exercise? I want all the original
> lenses, bezels, instruments etc but with the technology of aftermarket
> street rod style wiring.
>
> As always, thank you!
> Cullen
> Alpine 260
> _______________________________________________
>
> [email-masked]
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

---

From: Sandy Ganz via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 19:10:22 -0800

It would not be a problem, the electrical is pretty similar except for the Generator. You might keep some of the wiring and just redo sketchy parts. I would definitely use a fuse block with more then 2 fuses :). The areas of trickiness I'm guessing would be turn signal and Generator, the rest is pretty simple in looking at the diagrams. That all being said you might be better off starting with a replica harness and just add a fuse block, I think all the individual terminations for things ends up at the 2 fuses and each of those wires could be set to their own fuse. I have some melted wires under the dash that proves a 20 (or 30??) amp fuse will not blow if a small wire gets a short! 

One other issue is if you intend on using all the odd connectors to things like motors, wipers, etc, if not and you have no issue chopping them and using safe and modern connectors a new harness is OK, but if you have to start splicing bullet connectors everywhere, easier to start with a stock harness and fix the fuse box IMO ;)

Sandy

________________________________
 From: Cullen McCann via Tigers <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 3:52 PM
Subject: [Tigers] Tiger elec components with non-factory wiring?

As always, thank you!
Cullen
Alpine 260

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: Cullen McCann via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:29:42 -0600

Thanks Sandy...as always, your a wealth of knowledge. Thank you Tom also for
the source on the wiring. That will help. Yes, Both of you are correct, that I
want more circuit protection than the two fuses that the system is designed to
provide. At a minimum, I will take a stock harness or a replica of an original
harness and add additional fuses. My preference, however, was to have more
flexibility routing locations, choosing where to route the wiring. This would
require pay cut to fit type approach with some additional length. While I do
have an appreciation for making a period correct presentation, I may choose to
conceal some of my wiring more so than the factory. I will not likely drape it
across the inner fender panels as it was originally. I have had extremely good
results with street rod style aftermarket harnesses. That's why I was pushing
that direction. But, I have a complete and uncut original harness. I am
certainly interested in using an alternator system versus the generator
system.

Hard to explain my motivation or inspiration for original components versus
custom ones, but I suspect and I phrased my original question that it would
help to understand better. I like original hardware, original gauges and
interiors , original colors and styling, but will more than likely modernize
my electronics , brakes, and other subtle places to improve quality-of-life,
And in my opinion, reliability. Not trying to start a design debate, this is
just my Comfort zone.

Sandy's approach is the closest so far to what I'm hoping to achieve. More
specifically, however, I was wondering if anyone had ever adapted a completely
aftermarket style harness to factory electronic components. The wipers,
gauges, and all the lighting systems etc.

Cullen

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 13, 2015, at 9:10 PM, Sandy Ganz <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> It would not be a problem, the electrical is pretty similar except for the
Generator. You might keep some of the wiring and just redo sketchy parts. I
would definitely use a fuse block with more then 2 fuses :). The areas of
trickiness I'm guessing would be turn signal and Generator, the rest is pretty
simple in looking at the diagrams. That all being said you might be better off
starting with a replica harness and just add a fuse block, I think all the
individual terminations for things ends up at the 2 fuses and each of those
wires could be set to their own fuse. I have some melted wires under the dash
that proves a 20 (or 30??) amp fuse will not blow if a small wire gets a
short!
>
> One other issue is if you intend on using all the odd connectors to things
like motors, wipers, etc, if not and you have no issue chopping them and using
safe and modern connectors a new harness is OK, but if you have to start
splicing bullet connectors everywhere, easier to start with a stock harness
and fix the fuse box IMO ;)

[email-masked]

---

From: michael king via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:33:41 +1100

Cullen,

One on the saoca/cat forum members offers a complete modern multi fuse
harness for tigers and alpines. Do a quick search on the saoca and his
details will come up. Lots of people have used with great success and he's
a sunbeam guy so knows the cars and is  willing to help
On 14 Jan 2015 11:29, "Cullen McCann via Tigers" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

[email-masked]

---

From: "Smit, Theo via Tigers" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 03:49:11 +0000

Cullen,
I used a Painless 7 fuse auxiliary block (their PN 70107), and added a
bank of relays, each with 30A circuit breakers. The fuse block is split
into an accessory9 and a ignition switched9 block; I used one relay to
switch on the ignition-switched block so that the ignition key doesn9t see
any high loads from the heater, ignition, wipers, fuel pump, etc. The horn
got its own relay; the high and low beams each got a relay; and the
electric fan and fuel pump took the other spots, I think. The only bad
thing I encountered was in South Dakota where the starter solenoid wire
melted because the solenoid on my mini-starter was drawing 20 amps. That
killed my autocross there... Live and learn, and like Sandy says, make
sure your wire is bigger than your fuses!

Integrating with the existing harness depends mostly on how reversible9
you want it to be, and what the condition of your existing harness is. I
spliced into the harness at the original spade connectors where those were
supposed to plug into the original fuse box. I mounted my new fuse box
just ahead of the ignition switch, under the dash. If your current wiring
is 50 years old then you should probably get one of Rick9s or the British
Wiring harnesses and THEN add your own fuse panel.

Definitely look at the wire gauge and what the accessory is that you are
driving with it, and substitute fuses accordingly. Just because that fuse
panel comes with 20A fuses in all the slots does not mean that is correct
for your application - pretty much none of the accessories should draw
over 15 amps EVER including at startup.

Happy wiring,
Theo

On 2015-01-13, 8:10 PM, "Sandy Ganz via Tigers" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>It would not be a problem, the electrical is pretty similar except for
>the Generator. You might keep some of the wiring and just redo sketchy
>parts. I would definitely use a fuse block with more then 2 fuses :). The
>areas of trickiness I'm guessing would be turn signal and Generator, the
>rest is pretty simple in looking at the diagrams. That all being said you
>might be better off starting with a replica harness and just add a fuse
>block, I think all the individual terminations for things ends up at the
>2 fuses and each of those wires could be set to their own fuse. I have
>some melted wires under the dash that proves a 20 (or 30??) amp fuse will
>not blow if a small wire gets a short!
>
>One other issue is if you intend on using all the odd connectors to
>things like motors, wipers, etc, if not and you have no issue chopping
>them and using safe and modern connectors a new harness is OK, but if you
>have to start splicing bullet connectors everywhere, easier to start with
>a stock harness and fix the fuse box IMO ;)
>
>Sandy
>
>
>
>
>http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential
and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please
notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by
someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you.
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

---

From: Cullen McCann via Tigers <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 09:30:21 -0600

Theo,
I do remember your car in CO springs, and I think I have a couple of
pics...but naturally at the time I didn't have the forethought to study
detailing with respect to wiring. I do recall it seemed really sanitary
under the hood. That's exactly the look im going for. Traditional but just
a bit extra clean. I follow your explanation on this really well. this
sound like the perfect marriage for what I'm trying to do. like you said,
not need to rework the under dash harness if its doing its job just fine. I
just need a bit of technology, like yours, concealed ignition, possibly EFI
( not there yet).

I hadn't considered the false floor for storage...brilliant idea. that's
probably an old tiger trick that I just wasn't clued in to.

Theo, what type of EFI are you running?

Thank you for your help. This is exactly what I was wondering about.

Cullen

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Smit, Theo <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Cullen, I donB9t know if you looked at my Tiger in Colorado Springs. I ran
> the engine compartment wiring through the firewall at the right, then
> immediately out into the right-side fender; from there up over top of the
> fender arch lip and forward to the radiator crossmember. Along the way, I
> used one of the holes in the fender to bring out the wiring for the
> alternator, distributor trigger, and the coolant sensor. Those tucked
> under/behind the alternator so they were mostly out of sight. The right
> side horn, headlight and signal lights were the next stop; then the wiring
> ran along the radiator crossmember to the left-side headlight, signal
> light, horn, and electric fan. There was a wire there for the electric fan
> switch which was mounted in the radiator when I did the wiring, but then I
> moved it to the thermostat housing and I (temporarily) ran it along the
> radiator hose over to the engine.
>
> I ran the MSD wiring to the coil underneath the steering column; the coil
> is mounted on the left head. The EFI injector wires were run from the left
> side of the engine, using the bolt access hole that is already on that
> side for valve cover/plug access. ItB9s pretty much invisible there.
> The end result of all this is basically no obviously apparent wiring on
> either side of the engine compartment.
>
> I used the passenger footwell to house the EFI electronics. I modified the
> foot rest with a piano hinge along the bottom so it swings back to give
> access, with a simple loop fastener (gotta do that better...) to hold it
> up and in place. The MSD-6 is mounted in the left kick panel on a plate so
> that the MSD itself sits in the rectangular chassis cutout thatB9s there.
> It juuuust fits.
>
> I donB9t know if there is much benefit to doing a full rewire of the under
> dash setup. You would need to adapt whatever harness you got to suit the
> Tiger heater, wiper, signal light, and instrumentation wiring, where the
> OEM harness has all that done for you.
>
> Theo

[email-masked]