Subject: Re: [Tigers] Brakes

From: "Teepen, Jere" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 00:05:51 -0400

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Tom Parker
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:33 PM
To: LIST TIGER
Subject: [Tigers] Brakes

In response to Karl Adey's post, some thoughts on brakes and some observations
based on experience. Regarding the dual master cylinder, no practical
experience. The dual Wilwood, if memory serves, has something like a 1"
diameter bore. This may cause braking issues with the stock Tiger brakes. I
haven't done it, so I have no practical experience.

First the proportioner: I'd suggest using one because you want the bulk of the
braking to be on the front brakes. Granted the rear drum brakes are somewhat
anemic, but you may find some handling issues with too much pressure to the
rear. Again, I haven't done it, so I'm speculating.

What I did do was bypass the Girling booster - out of necessity - using the
stock Lucas 7/8" bore single master cylinder. The pedal feel was so hard the
car - to me - was almost undrivable. I ended up buying a 3/4" bore master
cylinder from C.A.T. which worked well. When I reinstalled the Girling I
stayed with the 3/4" bore master; the braking is, imho, excellent. A much
better feel than the 7/8" bore cylinder.

When Tim Suddard wrote about the Wilwood brake conversion in Classic
Motorsports I had some conversation with Wilwood management on the conversion.
I'm told the Wilwood masters are designed for use with Wilwood calipers front
and (preferably) rear. They have a lot more volume, I'm told, than the stock
front Tiger calipers, and certainly a lot more volume than the single piston
rear brake cylinders. Summit Racing carries the Wilwood front brake kits  for
the Tiger. Dale A. sells rear disk brake kits. My point: the Wilwood dual
master cylinders may be overkill for the stock Tiger braking system. As a
result the pedal feel may be really really hard.

Tom
'67 Mark 2
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]

---

From: "Teepen, Jere" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 00:07:57 -0400

Doh!  Sorry about the blank e-mail.

I would suggest that you contact Dale.  He has the engineering and development
experience with these systems to answer your questions.

Jere

-----Original Message-----

Tom
'67 Mark 2

[email-masked]

---

From: "Rense, Mark (GE, Appl & Light)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 16:07:39 +0000

Tom,
I have been running high horsepower Tigers with the following:
No Booster
Master cylinder = 0.700" bore from Alpine Series I-III
Front Discs = stock
Front calipers = stock Girling P16
Front pads = Street:  Hawk Performance HB169F.560 HPS Performance Ceramic
Brake Pad (HTR200 street tires)
Front Pads = Track Days:  Hawk HP Plus Sport/Track dual purpose front pads
HB169N.560 (Hoosier R6 Track tires)
Rear Shoes: Street compound
Rear Wheel Cylinders = 7/8" bore from Series I-III

When I went to the higher friction material pads up front, it was obvious that
the rears were barely working, so by using the older Series I-III wheel
cylinders I generate a little more force out back but still retain balance.
Swapping ends in a Tiger is all too easy at speed, you want your brake system
balanced and easy to modulate.

I was doing a few track days a year but have not recently, the HP Plus pads
work well for open tracks like Nelson's, I could go a full 30 minute session
without significant fade. Tracks like Beaverun and Summit work your brakes
harder and fade usually sets in after five or so laps, but was manageable.
This brake system setup requires a little more up-keep, you have to keep the
rears adjusted right on the edge to avoid excess pedal travel. I'm not road
racing so I do not need the ultimate system as that would make the car
unsuitable for street use.

Go to  http://www.porterfield-brakes.com  and search Sunbeam Tiger, they list
many brake and shoe compounds from Hawk, EBC and Ferodo, plus they can re-line
your rears with race compound material.

I still use 13" wheels so I am restricted as to what I can do for an upgrade.
When the last of my 13" tire stock is gone I'll go the whole
wheel/brake/hydraulic upgrade.

My experience indicates the stock brake disc/drum setup without a booster
using the smaller master cylinder and modern friction material should give you
plenty of street stopping power short of adding an ABS system...now wouldn't
that be an interesting project?

Bugz

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Tom Parker
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:33 PM
To: LIST TIGER
Subject: [Tigers] Brakes

Tom
'67 Mark 2

[email-masked]

Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
_______________________________________________

[email-masked]