Subject: [Tigers] Electrical problem - ignition/ballast resistor?

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:31:33 -0700

On my Tiger, I'm having a starting problem.  The new ignition switch did not
fix it.

Here are the symptoms: I turn the key one click, the car gets power, the red
charging light goes on.  I turn one more to power the starter, I get a click
and the power shuts down.  I turn off the key, turn it one click again, but
this time no power.  The charging light does not go on.

When this first happened, the electrical, including the red charging light,
would work after a few moments.  Now it does not go back on until I give 12V
straight to the starter switch.

That is, I hooked up jumper cables to the + on the battery, and put it
directly to the post on the starter solenoid that comes from the ignition
switch.  The starter cranks immediately.  Then the electrical system is
working right again.

Here are some more details: Measuring voltage, I have very little drop between
the battery post, to the fuse box, through the ignition switch and to the
stater solenoid.  12.48 at the battery, 12.40 at the starter solenoid switch
wire.

But, after I try to start the car and the system shuts down, it is about 11.5
all around (except the battery).

The odd thing is that this doesn't happen until I turn the ignition switch to
the starter position.  I can turn it from off, to run, or to accessory over
and over and all is fine.  It's only when I go to the starter position that it
clicks and shuts down.  Is there something other than the starter solenoid
that gets power at that time and might be bad?

I just looked at the wiring diagram.  The only other thing that comes into
play seems to be the ignition resistor.  Could it fail in a way that causes
this?  If so, is this a common part I can get at a local auto parts shop?  Is
there some way to test it?

Thanks,
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From: TtT <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 00:59:01 -0500

Jay- I'm of the opinion and from the same problem years ago that you need a new selinoid. You should have battery voltage on the always hot side and with help measure the voltage when the key is turned to the start position. There should be little drop. Of removed and disassembled you will find brass or copper plate and springs, if memory serves..When power from the switch goes to the small bolt, the selinoid acts like a magnet and closes the circuit,sending voltage thru to the lug that the starter cable is on and the engine turns over. It may need replaced or you may have corrosion which is the problem. ALSO it seems each cell produces 2.2 volts, giving you 13.2. I maybe wrong as my memory sucks but if I'm right, you may have a dead cell.Have. you checked the levels of the electrolyte? The ballest resistor's only job is to reduce the voltage going to the points so not to burn them. Your problem isn't real serious. I just hope my battery volts per cell is correct. I'm sure I will be corrected. Lol. TtT
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Jay Laifman <[email-masked]> wrote:

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From: Gary Winblad <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 15:02:15 +0000 (UTC)

Jay,
I would just try cleaning the battery terminals.
Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: TtT <[email-masked]>
To: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] Den <[email-masked]>
Sent: Fri, 31 May 2013 05:59:01 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Electrical problem - ignition/ballast resistor?

Jay- I'm of the opinion and from the same problem years ago that you need a new selinoid. You should have battery voltage on the always hot side and with help measure the voltage when the key is turned to the start position. There should be little drop. Of removed and disassembled you will find brass or copper plate and springs, if memory serves..When power from the switch goes to the small bolt, the selinoid acts like a magnet and closes the circuit,sending voltage thru to the lug that the starter cable is on and the engine turns over. It may need replaced or you may have corrosion which is the problem. ALSO it seems each cell produces 2.2 volts, giving you 13.2. I maybe wrong as my memory sucks but if I'm right, you may have a dead cell.Have. you checked the levels of the electrolyte? The ballest resistor's only job is to reduce the voltage going to the points so not to burn them. Your problem isn't real serious. I just hope my battery volts per cell is correct. I'm sure I will be 
 corrected. Lol. TtT
Sent from Huawei Mobile

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 14:12:52 -0400 (EDT)

Jay,
Funny, but I remember your father discussing that exact subject on  this 
site.  I think he liked the idea of 2 people doing the job.   Bolts need to be 
turned from outside  and nuts held on the inside of the  car. Oh, and  of 
course, if you start fooling with that thing, don't forget  to disconnect the 
battery.  Naw, you wouldn't forget
Mark L

In a message dated 5/31/2013 1:06:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[email-masked] writes:

Thank  you everyone.  I will try some of the various suggestions  this
weekend.

I've been kind of hoping it is not the solenoid since  changing it looks
like such an amazing pain with the servo in the  way.  I've often
accomplished some very difficult part replacements  where I really had to
squirm and hold wrenches at all sorts of impossible  angles.  This one looks
like it just might be too difficult.  And  I'm not even sure just unbolting
the servo bracket gets me enough  flexibility.

I still don't understand how if I have very little drop in  voltage from the
battery though the fuse block, and through the ignition  switch to the
solenoid start wire (.08V, i.e., 12.48 down to 12.4) that it  is a
connection issue.  I also still don't understand how if the  battery is old
with low amp power, why it works when I take the power to  the solenoid
start wire straight from the battery.  And, I don't  understand how it could
be a bad solenoid when it works fine when I power  the solenoid start wire
directly.  But, tests are cheap and I'm happy  to do  them!

Jay

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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 14:55:29 -0400

Jay
	As with any time you are looking for the Root cause of a problem -
never say that part can't be the problem.
Always check everything from battery to starter, from ignition switch to
solenoid, everything.

	The internal wire diagram I have of the starter solenoid shows that
the "S" terminal- Ign switch WR wire should have continuity to ground or the
base of the solenoid only.   None of the other Lugs have continuity to
ground.  Check your ground at the solenoid and the bolts holding it to the
body.

	Biggest problem working on the solenoid, besides its position, is
you really need to use 2 wrenches to get the nuts off the lugs otherwise you
might shear a lug off and then it is replacement time.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of Jay Laifman
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:21 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Tiger's Den
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Electrical problem - ignition/ballast resistor?

My dad frequently mentioned the need for two elbows for working on English
cars.  I think Rootes may may have perfected the need in creating the Tiger.

Jay

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:12 AM, <[email-masked]> wrote:

> **
> *Jay,*
> *Funny, but I remember your father discussing that exact subject on
> this site.  I think he liked the idea of 2 people doing the job.
> Bolts need to be turned from outside  and nuts held on the inside of
> the car. Oh, and  of course, if you start fooling with that thing,
> don't forget to disconnect the battery.  Naw, you wouldn't forget*
> *Mark L*

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