Subject: Re: [Tigers] Electrical problem - ignition/ballast resistor?

From: Jim Sencindiver <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:15:50 -0400

And check the battery cables!

Keep on Tigering!

Jim Sencindiver

B382100451/TAC 448
http://www.tigersunited.com/car_show/sencindiver_j/default.asp

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Gary Winblad <[email-masked]>wrote:

> Jay,
> I would just try cleaning the battery terminals.
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TtT <[email-masked]>
> To: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] Den <
> [email-masked]>
> Sent: Fri, 31 May 2013 05:59:01 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [Tigers] Electrical problem - ignition/ballast resistor?
>
> Jay- I'm of the opinion and from the same problem years ago that you need
> a new selinoid. You should have battery voltage on the always hot side and
> with help measure the voltage when the key is turned to the start position.
> There should be little drop. Of removed and disassembled you will find
> brass or copper plate and springs, if memory serves..When power from the
> switch goes to the small bolt, the selinoid acts like a magnet and closes
> the circuit,sending voltage thru to the lug that the starter cable is on
> and the engine turns over. It may need replaced or you may have corrosion
> which is the problem. ALSO it seems each cell produces 2.2 volts, giving
> you 13.2. I maybe wrong as my memory sucks but if I'm right, you may have a
> dead cell.Have. you checked the levels of the electrolyte? The ballest
> resistor's only job is to reduce the voltage going to the points so not to
> burn them. Your problem isn't real serious. I just hope my battery volts
> per cell is correct. I'm sure I will be
>  corrected. Lol. TtT
> Sent from Huawei Mobile
>
>  Jay Laifman  wrote:
>
> >On my Tiger, I'm having a starting problem.  The new ignition switch did
> not
> >fix it.
> >
> >Here are the symptoms: I turn the key one click, the car gets power, the
> red
> >charging light goes on.  I turn one more to power the starter, I get a
> click
> >and the power shuts down.  I turn off the key, turn it one click again,
> but
> >this time no power.  The charging light does not go on.
> >
> >When this first happened, the electrical, including the red charging
> light,
> >would work after a few moments.  Now it does not go back on until I give
> 12V
> >straight to the starter switch.
> >
> >That is, I hooked up jumper cables to the + on the battery, and put it
> >directly to the post on the starter solenoid that comes from the ignition
> >switch.  The starter cranks immediately.  Then the electrical system is
> >working right again.
> >
> >Here are some more details: Measuring voltage, I have very little drop
> between
> >the battery post, to the fuse box, through the ignition switch and to the
> >stater solenoid.  12.48 at the battery, 12.40 at the starter solenoid
> switch
> >wire.
> >
> >But, after I try to start the car and the system shuts down, it is about
> 11.5
> >all around (except the battery).
> >
> >The odd thing is that this doesn't happen until I turn the ignition
> switch to
> >the starter position.  I can turn it from off, to run, or to accessory
> over
> >and over and all is fine.  It's only when I go to the starter position
> that it
> >clicks and shuts down.  Is there something other than the starter solenoid
> >that gets power at that time and might be bad?
> >
> >I just looked at the wiring diagram.  The only other thing that comes into
> >play seems to be the ignition resistor.  Could it fail in a way that
> causes
> >this?  If so, is this a common part I can get at a local auto parts shop?
>  Is
> >there some way to test it?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________

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---

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:06:20 -0700

Thank you everyone.  I will try some of the various suggestions this
weekend.

I've been kind of hoping it is not the solenoid since changing it looks
like such an amazing pain with the servo in the way.  I've often
accomplished some very difficult part replacements where I really had to
squirm and hold wrenches at all sorts of impossible angles.  This one looks
like it just might be too difficult.  And I'm not even sure just unbolting
the servo bracket gets me enough flexibility.

I still don't understand how if I have very little drop in voltage from the
battery though the fuse block, and through the ignition switch to the
solenoid start wire (.08V, i.e., 12.48 down to 12.4) that it is a
connection issue.  I also still don't understand how if the battery is old
with low amp power, why it works when I take the power to the solenoid
start wire straight from the battery.  And, I don't understand how it could
be a bad solenoid when it works fine when I power the solenoid start wire
directly.  But, tests are cheap and I'm happy to do them!

Jay

[email-masked]

---

From: "Smit, Theo" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 17:26:54 +0000

Hi Jay,
When you try this again, get the system to its failed state, and then measure
from the positive battery post to the cable clamp around the post. Then
measure from the cable clamp to the cable itself. Do the same for the negative
side. If you have an electrolytically corroded connection, it would show up
right there.

If you do have to work on the solenoid, just make sure to unhook the battery
connections first.
Theo

> -----Original Message-----
> I still don't understand how if I have very little drop in voltage from
> the battery though the fuse block, and through the ignition switch to
> the solenoid start wire (.08V, i.e., 12.48 down to 12.4) that it is a
> connection issue.  I also still don't understand how if the battery is
> old with low amp power, why it works when I take the power to the
> solenoid start wire straight from the battery.  And, I don't understand
> how it could be a bad solenoid when it works fine when I power the
> solenoid start wire directly.  But, tests are cheap and I'm happy to do
> them!
>
>
> Jay
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/[email-masked]
>
>

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---

From: Jim Sencindiver <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 13:35:25 -0400

Jay,

Had a similar problem and to make a long story short, I had significant
corrosion of the stranded battery ground cable where it joins the battery
lug connector.  With no load it would pass voltage with no problem, but try
to start the engine and the current would cause the connection to go to
hell.  Took me a week of playing with a multimeter to figure it out.

Keep on Tigering!
 Jim Sencindiver

B382100451/TAC 448

[email-masked]

---

From: Jay Laifman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:58:30 -0700

Seeing as how the battery connection is becoming a theme here, I thought
I'd add that my dad has a quick release device on the battery.  I measured
V at both the battery and after the quick release and saw no change.  But,
given the advice so far, this part came to mind.  I will remove it too and
see if that changes anything..

Here is a link with a picture of the one that is in there.

http://www.jtsonline.com.au/wiring/terminals/battery-terminal-brass-quick-release.html

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Smit, Theo <[email-masked]>wrote:

> Hi Jay,
> When you try this again, get the system to its failed state, and then
> measure from the positive battery post to the cable clamp around the post.
> Then measure from the cable clamp to the cable itself. Do the same for the
> negative side. If you have an electrolytically corroded connection, it
> would show up right there.
>
> If you do have to work on the solenoid, just make sure to unhook the
> battery connections first.
> Theo
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be
> confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in
> error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including
> attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
> Thank you.

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