Subject: [Tigers] FW: Shelby Obits

From: "Teepen, Jere" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:55:07 -0400

This does not seem to have been distributed.  Sorry if it is redundant.

-----Original Message-----
From: Teepen, Jere
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:02 PM
To: 'Carlo Bernardino'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Shelby Obits

Ooh, sore spot.

I would be more than willing to say with very high confidence that Carroll
Shelby was more involved with the Shelby/Dodge cars than he was with the
Sunbeam Tiger.  The Alpine project was given to others at his shop to
determine how to make it work.  He may have had some input, but this was a
contracted job, not an effort he was pursuing on a personal level.  The racing
efforts for the Shelby Tiger were not a high priority and they only raced it
for one season (I think).

Shelby's efforts with Dodge were much more than "lending his name".  He was
directly involved with the concept and execution of the Shelby Dodges.  This
is not to say he was wrenching on them, he was rarely hands on with any of the
cars bearing his name.  The Shelby Dodges were a strong contender in the SCCA
battles from 1984 with the Shelby Charger and Omni, through 1992 with the
Shelby Shadow.  And then there were the Shelby Can Am cars that were built at
the Shelby Performance Center in Whittier, CA.  These were purpose built
racecars, designed in part by Pete Brock, using Chrysler sourced V-6 engines
and dedicated transaxles.  This race series lasted until the late nineties, I
believe, and there are many still being campaigned.  There is (was?)a Shelby
Can Am website that lists the cars and their current owners/whereabouts, but I
have not looked at/for it for a couple of years.  Shelby's relationship with
Dodge lasted longer than his initial relationship with Ford.  Sadly these cars
have not survived well and are only sought after by a relatively few dedicated
souls.  If you have never driven a GLHS then you are missing a very different
treat.

As for the late model stuff, I have not paid a lot of attention to them, but
they also have a lot of Carroll Shelby input into the direction they have gone
with the cars.  And they are modified at a dedicated Shelby American facility
in Las Vegas, NV.  Again, more than "lending his name".

I am not writing this to minimize Shelby's contribution to the Tiger.  I
believe the Sunbeam Tiger is rightfully recognized as having a claim to a
Shelby American birthright and I am a proud member of the LASAAC.  But let us
keep a proper perspective of the efforts of Carroll Shelby and Shelby
American.

Jere

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of Carlo Bernardino
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 8:41 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Tigers] Shelby Obits

Like everyone in the Tiger community,  I was saddened to hear of his passing.
I also was saddened that I will not be able to meet the man, at a show or
elsewhere. It would be need to shake the hand of one of my automotive heroes.
However, one things that I find interesting that none of his obituaries in the
press even mention remotely the Tiger and his involvement. Some mention great
minute details of his life in Africa, or his chili pursuits, or how he helped
with the Omni GLH and other cars. But no Tiger. I know I am speaking to the
choir, but it is as good a time as any to set the record straight.

Autoweek just posted a list of Shelby's 10 most important cars, and I wrote
Dutch Mandel, one of the editors, mentioning the Tiger's omission. He
countered that the tiger was like the Toyota 2000 GT that Shelby raced. I
wrote back saying the two are not at all analogous. Furthermore, we could
argue that he did more engineering in the tiger's case than lending his name
on the modern Shelby mustangs or Omni pocket rockets.

Rob

Rob in Carmel, CA
1966 Mk1A Tiger
B382000262 LRXFE
JAL660245
Color Code 39: Carnival Red
TAC# 0519
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From: " Ron Fraser" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 22:21:11 -0400

Jay
	That was Bo Cheadle(sp)I believe and yes he had a number of Ford
Race cars.   He brought the beautifully restored Ken Miles car to Suni @ Big
Sky.   He passed away and I'm not sure what happened to the car.  Safe
somewhere I would hope.

Ron Fraser

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
On Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:01 PM
To: Stephen Waybright; Randy Zimmermann; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Shelby Obits

Yeah, but Ken Miles pedigree is nothing to slouch about. I remember
something like 20 years ago one of the guys on this list bought it. He owned
a number of Ford derived sports cars - lots of rare ones. For some reason,
he always credited me for finding the car for him. I honestly don't remember
what I did to help. And sadly I know he passed away.  So i'll never know.
Where is that car now?

Jay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Waybright <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:27:47
To: Randy Zimmermann<[email-masked]>;
[email-masked]<[email-masked]>
Reply-To: Stephen Waybright <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Shelby Obits

Yes, Ken Miles did do an extremely crude proof of concept that couldn't even
pass as an bad "Alger" if done  today (auto tranny, recirculating ball
steering). I'd consider the George Baskoff car to be a much more refined
effort, but still just a proof of concept. There weren't design drawings or
engineering testing results from that activity. Jensen did the real
design/development engineering work for Rootes based on the concept from
Shelby.

Maybe semantics, but it's my assessment as a mechanical engineer with most
my career in product development and engineering.

Stephen Waybright
________________________________
 From: Randy Zimmermann <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15,
2012 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Shelby Obits

I'm far, far from an expert
on the Tiger's history but from my reading of the
Robson and Carroll's
versions, the hot rod Alpine was a product of Ken Miles individual efforts
in his home garage while the Shelby American team (under the direction of
George
Boskoff) produced the more "refined" V8 Alpine that
was sent to England to
guide Tiger production at Jensen.

Ken delivered his
prototype faster and
it was used for the infamous Billy Rootes test drive in
L.A.  The Shelby
American version took longer but produced a more
sophisticated design and,
thus, was the model forwarded to England.

R.I.P.
Carroll Shelby

It will be
interesting to follow what happens to the red Tiger
that was part of his
collection and could be seen in the background of the interviews Carroll
gave not too long ago for the Shelby-themed Barrett-Jackson auctions.

Randy Z.
Duluth, MN
1967 Tiger MkIa
________________________________

On 5/15/12,
Stephen Waybright
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> "As much as I like the
Shelby connection
with Tigers (and love the Tiger), it really was
> limited to
a one-off hot rod
Alpine, proof of concept car... the real production
engineering was done by
Jensen and I've never heard that Shelby had any
direct engagement with
Rootes Group / Sunbeam corporate management. "
Stephen Waybright

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