Subject: [Spridgets] Fwd: Fw: interesting discovery

From: HealeyRick via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2023 14:50:07 -0400

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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: HealeyRick <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 2:47=E2=80=AFPM
Subject: Bugeye Floor Color
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>

>From the thread below, it appears that many bugeyes were only painted
underneath in the brown primer.  Apparently, it differed according to the
painter or maybe how much paint he had left in his spray pot

Rick
"Madman in a death machine" Follow My Nasty Boy Build:
http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo

----- Forwarded Message -----
*From:* FREDERICK JORDAN <[email-masked]>
*To:* Jonathan W-Bird <[email-masked]>
*Cc:* HealeyRick <[email-masked]>; BRIAN THORNTON <[email-masked]>=
;
"[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>; Jim Smalley <[email-masked]=
t>;
Rick Fisk <[email-masked]>; Gerard Chateauvieux <
[email-masked]>; Peter Downie <[email-masked]>; Jay Fishbein <
[email-masked]>; Alan Fisher <[email-masked]>; "
[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>; Ken Grasing <[email-masked]>=
;
"[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>; George Marinos <
[email-masked]>
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 08:57:02 PM EDT
*Subject:* Re: interesting discovery

So considering we seem to be in agreement that most of the bottoms of the
Sprites ( at least MK I ) were only primer painted, shouldn=E2=80=99t we ad=
dress
this in the standards AND perhaps put this information out now rather than
later since there are
cars  in the process of restoration that would be docked points in judging?
I=E2=80=99d hate to be the judge that had to tell someone that their well p=
ainted
car was incorrect with body color on the underside.
Fred

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Jonathan W-Bird <[email-masked]> wrote=
:

=EF=BB=BF

Fantastic stuff!

Has everyone seen the Abingdon (Sprite/Midget) assembly line footage, from
1969, that I have?

It provides some insight into how Mk.I Sprites were originally built ten
years earlier.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

Sent from my Galaxy

-------- Original message --------
From: HealeyRick <[email-masked]>
Date: 02/10/2022 00:34 (GMT+01:00)
To: FREDERICK JORDAN <[email-masked]>, BRIAN THORNTON <[email-masked]>=
,
Jonathan W-Bird <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], Jim Smalley <[email-masked]>, Rick Fisk <
[email-masked]>, Gerard Chateauvieux <[email-masked]>, Peter
Downie <[email-masked]>, Jay Fishbein <[email-masked]>, Alan Fisher
<[email-masked]>, [email-masked], Ken Grasing <
[email-masked]>, [email-masked], George Marinos <
[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: interesting discovery

The Rotodip was illustrated on Minis here:
Bmc Presents Wizardry On Wheels Reel 2 (1961)
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Do9g6FWriz-g> and from the way the rusted
in the states it was as useful as a screen door in a submarine.
Rick

Bmc Presents Wizardry On Wheels Reel 2 (1961)

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Do9g6FWriz-g>

"Madman in a death machine" Follow My Nasty Boy Build:
http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 05:18:53 PM EDT, Jonathan W-Bird <
[email-masked]> wrote:

Hi,

This primer paint process was known as 'Slipper Dipping'.

All Sprite (and Midget) bodyshells were painted with primer at BMC Cowley,
in Coventry, before receiving their final top coats, and were then
transported, by road, to Abingdon for final assembly.

At each stage of the process another body tag number was added.

The other primer paint process employed by BMC (this time at Longbridge, in
Birmingham), was 'Rotor Dipping', where the bodyshell was mounted on a
skewer and fully immersed whilst being rotated.

Sadly, BMC Cowley didn't have this process and the Sprite bodyshell was so
constructed as not to allow for skewer mounting.

Cheers,
Jonathan

Sent from my Galaxy

-------- Original message --------
From: FREDERICK JORDAN <[email-masked]>
Date: 01/10/2022 15:21 (GMT+01:00)
To: BRIAN THORNTON <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], Jim Smalley <[email-masked]>, Rick Neville <
[email-masked]>, Rick Fisk <[email-masked]>, Jonathan Bird <
[email-masked]>, Gerard Chateauvieux <[email-masked]>,
Peter Downie <[email-masked]>, Jay Fishbein <[email-masked]>, Alan
Fisher <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], Ken Grasing <
[email-masked]>, [email-masked], George Marinos <
[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: interesting discovery

Interesting as our concours standard don=E2=80=99t address this! Hmmmm!
Fred

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 1, 2022, at 9:13 AM, BRIAN THORNTON <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHello Fred,

The bodies were dip primed in a red-ish/brown primer.  We know that they
were dip primed because one will find this primer inside enclosed boxed
sections of the body like the front cross member behind the radiator.  I
removed and replaced the lower panel of the crossmember on our AN5 because
jacks had dented this panel and it looked awful!  When I drilled out the
spot welds and ground away the seam welds, a nice coat of red-ish/brown
primer saw the light of day for the first time in this enclosed box section=
.

Regarding color coat paint coverage of the underside of the boot/floorpans
itself, this appears to vary based on individual application by the
painter.

The following photos (albeit small) from HAN5L/24858 illustrate that this
car did not receive much in the way of color coat on the floors/frame
horns.  It appears the the entire underside of the car remained in primer.

This is AN5L/4103 (Speedwell Blue).  This California car=E2=80=99s floors a=
re
entirely covered in dip primer.

What you=E2=80=99ve discovered is consistent with AN5 painting process.  Th=
anks for
sharing.

Regards,

Brian

On Oct 1, 2022, at 7:10 AM, FREDERICK JORDAN <[email-masked]> wrote:

We recently replaced the gas tank on Peter Downie=E2=80=99s 59. =
This is
the first time the tank has been dropped. To our surprise there was no
green paint above the tank but appears to be the factory brownish primer.
Fred

On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:59 AM, Randy Hicks <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHi Fred, I=E2=80=99m not totally sure what you are asking here.

Are you questioning the viability of Sprites in Concours or the effort to
update Sprite Guidelines? Or Both?

I did see the 501 Sprite at Enclave and it was quite nice. It did receive a
solid Gold Award despite the lack of original floor covering. (It did not
receive the 20 point deduction some wanted as it did not have carpeted
floor covering.) The max. point deduction allowed was 10 points for Floor
Covering, Padding and Fasteners. I did not do a count on the number of
Sprites in attendance, but there was quite a few.

Just for reference, in the last 10 years, 64 Big Healeys and 11 Sprites
have been thru Concours Inspections in the US.

With regard to the Sprite Guidelines (& Big Healey Guidelines), I have
never felt they were for Concours Inspections Only. I believe they are a
document designed detail how the cars were originally produced. whether
they are used for Concours Inspection or used to just maintain as close to
original. If not recorded as much as possible, many details will be lost in
years to come. That is where I see the true value.

Just my $.02.

Randy

=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.

On Sep 20, 2022, at 5:54 PM, FREDERICK JORDAN <[email-masked]> wrote:

To my understanding, there was only one Sprite in concours at the Enclave.
This begs a serious question. What are we doing here? Is it the lack of
interest in the majority of the Sprite community? I=E2=80=99ve always been =
an
originality guy. Not to beat a dead horse but are the floor mats part of a
perception that one can=E2=80=99t do well in concours even though it=E2=80=
=99s a (for the
most part) an even playing field? What about later Sprites? The lack of
interest is something to consider. BTW as far as I understand, 501 did
place gold. Regardless of floor covering. If we continue, how do we
encourage concours in the Sprite world in a group that has somewhat
disregarded Sprites in general. Sad but true imho. The one Healey that
actually survived albeit as a Midget until 1979! What are the attitudes
across the pond?
Fred

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 16, 2022, at 12:44 PM, Jim Smalley <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFGentlemen,

As I said yesterday when I agreed with Bruce, please, no more pre-judging
by emails. The matter is closed at this point. We continue to stray from
the original topic.

I will discuss the matter with the Sprite judging team before next week's
judging at Enclave. I will review past Sprite judging sheets over the years
this weekend to see how past judges have scored this issue.

It is obvious that the Sprite committee has their work cut out for them
this fall regarding judging sheets and their scores. I am a bit
disappointed that we didn't have very much feedback from other committee
members regarding this issue. Thank you to those that took the time to
respond.

Have a good weekend and drive safe on your way to Enclave.

Thanks

Jim Smalley
National judging chairman

Sent from phone

On Sep 16, 2022, at 8:30 AM, BRIAN THORNTON <[email-masked]> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHello Randy,

When you are judging do you always mark the *maximum deduction*

Absolutely not.  In the case that we are discussing, (floor coverings),
both Big Healey and Sprite Score Sheet possess Standard Deductions.  I
believe that the Standard Deductions in the existing Sprite Score Sheets
are applicable for floor coverings that are manufactured in materials other
than carpet in AN5/AN6 cars (my logic follows).

So, you are telling me that you would rather see an entrant use Carpet
instead of trying to make the floor covering look as close as possible to
Original? Less points for Carpet? I can not follow the logic here! This is
not how we encourage entrant to get their cars as lose as possible to
original

My logic is:

1. Original rubber mats are original
2. Carpet is a non-original floor covering.  The Score Sheets dictate the
Standard Deduction that should be assessed based on carpet type.  No
consideration is given to how closely the carpet installation
compares/contrasts with the original rubber mat design or installation.
3. All other materials used for the purpose of covering floors are
non-original.
4. =E2=88=B4 Floor coverings manufactured from non-original material/s shou=
ld be
subject to the same Standard Deduction as carpet

On Sep 16, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Randy Hicks <[email-masked]> wrote:

Brian, just a couple quick comments and then I=E2=80=99m out until after En=
clave.

First, You stated:

 "*(=E2=80=9Crubber like or close attempts=E2=80=9D while simple, is entire=
ly subjective.
This is why I raised the question regarding the Hardura installation that
you=E2=80=99re going to witness next week.  Is Hardura rubber like,
the surface kinda is.  Is the attempt to match the original design of the
molded rubber floor covering close, sort of=E2=80=A6).=E2=80=9D*

Yes, our judging is very subjective. When you are judging do you always
mark the *maximum deduction* to a line item if you are going to deduct for
it? Do you ever deduct 1/2 point vs. 1 point, deduct 4 points instead of
max  5 for a line item?  If you do, you are the first judge I=E2=80=99ve ev=
er seen
do it.

*Secondly, You state:*

   - "Original mats =3D No deduction for originality, up to 6 points
   deduction for condition
   - Carpet - 15 - 20 point deduction (depending on carpet type) for
   non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition
   - Any other material - 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6
   points deduction for condition"

So, you are telling me that you would rather see an entrant use Carpet
instead of trying to make the floor covering look as close as possible to
Original? Less points for Carpet? I can not follow the logic here! This is
not how we encourage entrant to get their cars as lose as possible to
original, and yes, there needs to be some deduction.

Randy

On Sep 16, 2022, at 6:12 AM, BRIAN THORNTON <[email-masked]> wrote:

   - Original mats =3D No originality deduction *(I agree)*
   - Carpet - Up to 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points
   for condition *(I agree)*
   - Rubber like or close attempts to match the original - Up to 10 point
   deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points for condition *(=E2=80=9Cr=
ubber
   like or close attempts=E2=80=9D while simple, is entirely subjective.  T=
his is why
   I raised the question regarding the Hardura installation that you=E2=80=
=99re going
   to witness next week.  Is Hardura rubber like, the surface kinda is.  Is
   the attempt to match the original design of the molded rubber floor
   covering close, sort of=E2=80=A6).*

Bruce has presented the best rationale that I=E2=80=99ve seen as to why the
Standard Deductions for carpet apply to all other floor covering
materials/types other than the original rubber floor mats.

"The Standard Deductions for floor coverings for Sprites were established
to address anything other than the original floor coverings. On AN5=E2=80=
=99s this
meant rubber mats, on AN6-AN9=E2=80=99s this meant carpet. They were worded=
 to
cover what had usually been presented other than the original materials.

They call out the two types of carpeting because they were used in AN6- AN9
(in the case of cut pile) or are offered by many current suppliers (in the
case of loop). We did not call out shag carpeting or indoor/outdoor
carpeting. In my opinion, just because someone shows up with a material
that is not specifically called out in the Standard Deductions, does not
mean they should receive less than a Standard Deduction."

The resulting simple (and importantly objective) Standard Deduction scale
for AN5/AN6 cars is as follows in my view:

   - Original mats =3D No deduction for originality, up to 6 points deducti=
on
   for condition
   - Carpet - 15 - 20 point deduction (depending on carpet type) for
   non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition
   - Any other material - 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6
   points deduction for condition

Have a safe and enjoyable trip for those attending Enclave.

Regards,

Brian

On Sep 15, 2022, at 7:37 PM, Randy Hicks <[email-masked]> wrote:

Yes Rick it i s very simple.

=E2=80=A2 Original Mats - No Deduction.

=E2=80=A2 Rubber like or close attempts to match original  - Up to 10 Point
Deduction on Originality, 6 points Condition.

=E2=80=A2 Carpet - Up to 20 Point Deduction, 6 points Condition.

That is how I interrupt the Sprite Guidelines and Score Sheets.

Randy

On Sep 15, 2022, at 7:22 PM, HealeyRick <[email-masked]> wrote:

In my view we are making this a whole lot harder than it needs to be solely
because the extreme difficulty in finding the original floor coverings.
It's simple

There is only one original floor covering and those are the rubber mats
I've posted here (I think this may be Ben Kenion's car)

Carpet was never available on an AN5/early 6

If you have the original mats - no deduction

Anything else gets a deduction - whatever number of points is deemed
appropriate - whether it's loop or cut pile, it's not original .. period.
Hardura/vinyl/karvel/multi-colored deep shag carpet ... not original ...
period.

I can't point specifically to when the AMCO kit became available and don't
know if it was offered during production of the AN5/6.  Someone would have
to show by contemporaneous advertisement etc that it was a "period
accessory". and even then, they would still need the rubber factory center
mat or face some kind of deduction.

If the supply or smoothcase transmissions dries up and become
"unavailable". would we say it's ok to put in a ribcase because it's close
or even a Datsun 5 speed because it was the only think available?  If we
are going to be concours dogmatists we should stay domatic and not make
excuses for expedience.  This coming from a Nasty Boy guy!

Rick
"Madman in a death machine" Follow My Nasty Boy Build:
http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 07:04:07 PM EDT, Rick Fisk <
[email-masked]> wrote:

Hi Randy,

I bought my red '59 AN5 in January 1968 and this was the biggest piece of
the rubber mats left at that time.  Nine years in the California sun rotted
the mats away to crumbling dust.  My blue '60 AN5 vintage racer still has
the complete door liners in place, but they have been painted and that may
have helped preserve them.  That car was originally Leaf Green and it seems
to me that more of the green interiors have survived than the other colors.

Horler's book has some photos of the mats that kind sorta show the flat and
ribbed areas.

Rick

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Randy Hicks <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFHi Guys, can someone send me some photos of Original Rubber Floo=
r
Covering for the AN5?
> Thanks,
> Randy

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong cla=
ss=3D"gmail_sendername" dir=3D"auto">HealeyRick</strong> <span dir=3D"auto"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</=
span><br>Date: Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 2:47=E2=80=AFPM<br>Subject: Bugeye Floor=
 Color<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a=
> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br=
></div><br>From the thread below, it appears that many bugeyes were only pa=
inted underneath in the brown primer.=C2=A0 Apparently, it differed accordi=
ng to the painter or maybe how much paint he had left in his spray pot<br><=
div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:16px"><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Rick<div>&quot;Madman =
in a death machine&quot; Follow My Nasty Boy Build:  <a href=3D"http://tiny=
url.com/yj52fwo" target=3D"_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo</a></div></di=
v></div>
        <div><br></div><div><br></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayahoo_quoted_91988=
41284">
            <div style=3D"font-family:&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetica,Ar=
ial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
                <div>----- Forwarded Message -----</div>
                <div><b>From:</b> FREDERICK JORDAN &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fr=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div><b>To:=
</b> Jonathan W-Bird &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</div><div><b>Cc:</b> HealeyRick=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">healeyrick@y=
ahoo.com</a>&gt;; BRIAN THORNTON &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:randyhi=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Jim Sm=
alley &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">jimsm=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk@chartermi=
.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Gerard Chateauvieux &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">gerardc2211=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Peter Downie &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Jay Fishbein &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; A=
lan Fisher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bgearns=
@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; Ken Grasing &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">ken.grasing@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"=
>[email-masked]</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;; George Marinos &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</d=
iv><div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 5, 2022 at 08:57:02 PM EDT</div><di=
v><b>Subject:</b> Re: interesting discovery</div><div><br></div>
                <div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv37643828=
56"><div>So considering we seem to be in agreement that most of the bottoms=
 of the Sprites ( at least MK I ) were only primer painted, shouldn=E2=80=
=99t we address this in the standards AND perhaps put this information out =
now rather than later since there are<div>cars =C2=A0in the process of rest=
oration that would be docked points in judging? I=E2=80=99d hate to be the =
judge that had to tell someone that their well painted car was incorrect wi=
th body color on the underside.</div><div>Fred<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div id=3D"m_8000631231=
922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856yqt38942"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"no=
ne"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Jonathan W-Bird &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">sprinzelseb=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF</div></blockq=
uote></div></div></div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv376438=
2856yqt98730"><div><div>Fantastic stuff!</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div=
><div>Has everyone seen the Abingdon (Sprite/Midget) assembly line footage,=
 from 1969, that I have?</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>It provide=
s some insight into how Mk.I Sprites were originally built ten years earlie=
r.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Best wishes,</div><div>Jonathan<=
/div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv376438285=
6composer_signature"><div style=3D"font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent from m=
y Galaxy</div></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"><=
/div><div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div>------=
-- Original message --------</div><div>From: HealeyRick &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; </d=
iv><div>Date: 02/10/2022  00:34  (GMT+01:00) </div><div>To: FREDERICK JORDA=
N &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt;, BRIAN THORNTON &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Jonathan W-Bird &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; </div><div>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">ran=
[email-masked]</a>, Jim Smalley &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
t" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>=
&gt;, Gerard Chateauvieux &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Peter Downie &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
, Jay Fishbein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Alan Fisher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:keenefrogeye@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mai=
lto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>, Ken Grasing=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">ken.grasing=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>, George Marinos &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gmari2@veri=
zon.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; </div><div>Subject: R=
e: interesting discovery </div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"=
><div><div dir=3D"ltr">The Rotodip was illustrated on Minis here:=C2=A0</di=
v><div dir=3D"ltr"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?=
v=3Do9g6FWriz-g" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">Bmc Presents=
 Wizardry On Wheels Reel 2  (1961)</a>=C2=A0and from the way the rusted in =
the states it was as useful as a screen door in a submarine.</div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Rick<br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=
=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp8a423432enhancr_card_48=
54466436" style=3D"max-width:400px;font-family:YahooSans,Helvetica Neue,Seg=
oe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><a shape=3D"rect" style=3D"text-decoratio=
n:none!important;color:#000!important" href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watc=
h?v=3Do9g6FWriz-g" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank"><table sty=
le=3D"max-width:400px" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tb=
ody><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" width=3D"400"><table style=3D"max-w=
idth:400px;border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224,228,233=
);border-radius:2px" width=3D"100%" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" bor=
der=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"top" style=
=3D"background-color:rgb(0,0,0);background-size:cover;border-radius:2px 2px=
 0px 0px;min-height:175px" height=3D"175" bgcolor=3D"#000000" background=3D=
"https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/7U6sd3NxLUoiIsIVAqiQhA--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3P=
TQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o9g6FWriz-g/hqde=
fault.jpg.cf.jpg"><table style=3D"width:100%" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" valign=3D"to=
p" style=3D"background-color:transparent;border-radius:2px 2px 0px 0px;min-=
height:175px" bgcolor=3D"transparent" background=3D"https://s.yimg.com/cv/a=
e/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV21/1/enhancr_gradient-400x175.png"><table style=
=3D"width:100%;min-height:175px" height=3D"175" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td=
 colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" style=3D"text-align:left;padding:15px 0 0 15px=
;vertical-align:top"></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" style=3D"text-ali=
gn:right;padding:15px 15px 0 0;vertical-align:top"><div></div></td></tr></t=
body></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3D"1" rows=
pan=3D"1"><table align=3D"center" style=3D"background:#fff;width:100%;max-w=
idth:400px;border-radius:0 0 2px 2px;border-top:1px solid rgb(224,228,233)"=
 cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td colspan=3D=
"1" rowspan=3D"1" style=3D"background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12p=
x;vertical-align:top;border-radius:0 0 0 2px"><img style=3D"min-width:36px;=
margin-top:3px" height=3D"36" src=3D"https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enh=
ancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png"></td><td colspan=3D"1" rowspan=3D"1" style=3D"=
vertical-align:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;font-family:Yah=
ooSans,Helvetica Neue,Segoe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-radius:0 0=
 2px 0"><h2 style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:19px;margin:0px 0px 6px;fon=
t-family:YahooSans,Helvetica Neue,Segoe UI,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color=
:rgb(29,34,40);max-width:314px">Bmc Presents Wizardry On Wheels Reel 2  (19=
61)</h2><p style=3D"font-size:12px;line-height:16px;margin:0px;color:rgb(15=
1,158,168)"></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></=
tr></tbody></table></a></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div><div><div>&quot;Madman in a death machine&quot; Follow My N=
asty Boy Build:  <a href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo</a></div></div></div>
        <div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7b=
f403cayahoo_quoted_5247339932">
            <div style=3D"font-family:&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetica,Ar=
ial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 05:18:53 PM EDT, Jonath=
an W-Bird &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv37643828=
56ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095"><div><div>Hi,</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></di=
v><div>This primer paint process was known as &#39;Slipper Dipping&#39;.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>All Sprite (and Midget) bodyshe=
lls were painted with primer at BMC Cowley, in Coventry, before receiving t=
heir final top coats, and were then transported, by road, to Abingdon for f=
inal assembly.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>At each stage of the=
 process another body tag number was added.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></=
div><div>The other primer paint process employed by BMC (this time at Longb=
ridge, in Birmingham), was &#39;Rotor Dipping&#39;, where the bodyshell was=
 mounted on a skewer and fully immersed whilst being rotated.</div><div><br=
 clear=3D"none"></div><div>Sadly, BMC Cowley didn&#39;t have this process a=
nd the Sprite bodyshell was so constructed as not to allow for skewer mount=
ing.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Jonathan</di=
v><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clea=
r=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></di=
v><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv085=
6481095composer_signature"><div style=3D"font-size:85%;color:#575757">Sent =
from my Galaxy</div></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div align=3D"left" style=3D"font-size:100%;color:#000000"><div =
id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095=
yqtfd80589"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: FREDERI=
CK JORDAN &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">frejor3=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; </div><div>Date: 01/10/2022  15:21  (GMT+01:00) </div><di=
v>To: BRIAN THORNTON &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_bl=
ank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; </div><div>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:randyhicks@=
me.com" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>, Jim Smalley &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a=
>&gt;, Rick Neville &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk=
@chartermi.net" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Jonathan Bi=
rd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">sprinze=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Gerard Chateauvieux &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gerardc=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Peter =
Downie &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">shirttai=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Jay Fishbein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, Alan Fisher &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t;, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
m</a>, Ken Grasing &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>, George Marinos &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; </d=
iv><div>Subject: Re: interesting discovery </div><div><br clear=3D"none"></=
div></div></div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp=
7bf403cayiv0856481095yqtfd72157">Interesting as our concours standard don=
=E2=80=99t address this! Hmmmm!<div>Fred<br clear=3D"none"><div><br clear=
=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oct 1, 2022, a=
t 9:13 AM, BRIAN THORNTON &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=
=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D=
"none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BFHello Fred,<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>The bodies were dip primed=
 in a red-ish/brown primer.=C2=A0 We know that they were dip primed because=
 one will find this primer inside enclosed boxed sections of the body like =
the front cross member behind the radiator.=C2=A0 I removed and replaced th=
e lower panel of the crossmember on our AN5 because jacks had dented this p=
anel and it looked awful!=C2=A0 When I drilled out the spot welds and groun=
d away the seam welds, a nice coat of red-ish/brown primer saw the light of=
 day for the first time in this enclosed box section.<div><br clear=3D"none=
"></div><div>Regarding color coat paint coverage of the underside of the bo=
ot/floorpans itself, this appears to vary based on individual application b=
y the painter. =C2=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>The following=
 photos (albeit small) from HAN5L/24858 illustrate that this car did not re=
ceive much in the way of color coat on the floors/frame horns.=C2=A0 It app=
ears the the entire underside of the car remained in primer.</div><div><br =
clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><img id=3D"m_800063=
1231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv085648109542902F9C-BDC5-=
4B64-8C52-144D1F867C4D" width=3D"200" height=3D"150" alt=3D"53.jpg"></div><=
div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none"><div><img id=3D"m_8000631231922187=
027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv085648109512F82E2F-BA28-4EFB-BE01-=
44798F770EFD" width=3D"200" height=3D"150" alt=3D"48.jpg"></div><div><br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>This is AN5L/4103 (Sp=
eedwell Blue).=C2=A0 This California car=E2=80=99s floors are entirely cove=
red in dip primer.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><img id=3D"m_800=
0631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv08564810950D70992B-FF=
80-4298-997F-F0CD7C68E0F6" alt=3D"c524-frame-remote.jpg"></div><div><img id=
=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv08564810956A=
C0E3A0-6BCB-470C-A429-4285D691F5C8" alt=3D"c524-underleft-thumb.jpg"><br cl=
ear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><img id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200a=
yiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095E8B91C4D-10C9-4EAD-BAF2-4EB38D8743CC" =
alt=3D"c524-underright-thumb.jpg"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=
What you=E2=80=99ve discovered is consistent with AN5 painting process.=C2=
=A0 Thanks for sharing.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Regards,</d=
iv><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Brian</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></=
div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Oc=
t 1, 2022, at 7:10 AM, FREDERICK JORDAN &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">frejor33@=
aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none"><div><div><br clear=3D"none"=
><span id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv085=
6481095cid:995B6992-7F65-46A9-A118-803A051C5FD1">&lt;image.jpg&gt;</span>We=
 recently replaced the gas tank on Peter Downie=E2=80=99s 59. This is the f=
irst time the tank has been dropped. To our surprise there was no green pai=
nt above the tank but appears to be the factory brownish primer.=C2=A0<div>=
Fred<br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=
=3D"cite">On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:59 AM, Randy Hicks &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blan=
k">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></=
blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BFHi Fre=
d, I=E2=80=99m not totally sure what you are asking here.<div><br clear=3D"=
none"></div><div>Are you questioning the viability of Sprites in Concours o=
r the effort to update Sprite Guidelines? Or Both?</div><div><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div>I did see the 501 Sprite at Enclave and it was quite nice. =
It did receive a solid Gold Award despite the lack of original floor coveri=
ng. (It did not receive the 20 point deduction some wanted as it did not ha=
ve carpeted floor covering.) The max. point deduction allowed was 10 points=
 for Floor Covering, Padding and Fasteners. I did not do a count on the num=
ber of Sprites in attendance, but there was quite a few.=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div>Just for reference, in the last 10 years, 64 Bi=
g Healeys and 11 Sprites have been thru Concours Inspections in the US.</di=
v><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>With regard to the Sprite Guidelines (=
&amp; Big Healey Guidelines), I have never felt they were for Concours Insp=
ections Only. I believe they are a document designed detail how the cars we=
re originally produced. whether they are used for Concours Inspection or us=
ed to just maintain as close to original. If not recorded as much as possib=
le, many details will be lost in years to come. That is where I see the tru=
e value.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Just my $.02.</div><div><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div>Randy</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><=
br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"non=
e"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=
=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></=
div><div>=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none"><div><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 20, 2022, at 5:54 PM, FREDERICK JORDAN &lt;<a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none"><div>=
<div>To my understanding, there was only one Sprite in concours at the Encl=
ave. This begs a serious question. What are we doing here? Is it the lack o=
f interest in the majority of the Sprite community? I=E2=80=99ve always bee=
n an originality guy. Not to beat a dead horse but are the floor mats part =
of a perception that one can=E2=80=99t do well in concours even though it=
=E2=80=99s a (for the most part) an even playing field? What about later Sp=
rites? The lack of interest is something to consider. BTW as far as I under=
stand, 501 did place gold. Regardless of floor covering. If we continue, ho=
w do we encourage concours in the Sprite world in a group that has somewhat=
 disregarded Sprites in general. Sad but true imho. The one Healey that act=
ually survived albeit as a Midget until 1979! What are the attitudes across=
 the pond?=C2=A0<div>Fred<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite">On Sep 16, 2022, at 12:44 PM, Jim Smalley &lt;<a shape=3D"=
rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br=
 clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">=EF=BB=BFGentlemen,<div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>As I said yesterda=
y when I agreed with Bruce, please, no more pre-judging by emails. The matt=
er is closed at this point. We continue to stray from the original topic.</=
div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>I will discuss the matter with the S=
prite judging team before next week&#39;s judging at Enclave. I will review=
 past Sprite judging sheets over the years this weekend to see how past jud=
ges have scored this issue.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>It is o=
bvious that the Sprite committee has their work cut out for them this fall =
regarding judging sheets and their scores. I am a bit disappointed that we =
didn&#39;t have very much feedback from other committee members regarding t=
his issue. Thank you to those that took the time to respond.</div><div><br =
clear=3D"none"></div><div>Have a good weekend and drive safe on your way to=
 Enclave.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Thanks=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div>Jim Smalley</div><div>National judging chairman=
=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent from phon=
e</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sep=
 16, 2022, at 8:30 AM, BRIAN THORNTON &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">healeynut@=
aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></=
div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BFHello Randy,<div><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div><font face=
=3D"HelveticaNeue">When you are judging do you always mark the=C2=A0<u>maxi=
mum deduction</u>=C2=A0</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div>Absolutely not.=C2=A0 In the case that we are discussing, (floor =
coverings), both Big Healey and Sprite Score Sheet possess Standard Deducti=
ons.=C2=A0 I believe that the Standard Deductions in the existing Sprite Sc=
ore Sheets are applicable for floor coverings that are manufactured in mate=
rials other than carpet in AN5/AN6 cars (my logic follows).</div><div><br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div><div><div>So, =
you are telling me that you would rather see an entrant use Carpet instead =
of trying to make the floor covering look as close as possible to Original?=
 Less points for Carpet? I can not follow the logic here! This is not how w=
e encourage entrant to get their cars as lose as possible to original</div>=
</div></div></div></blockquote><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>My logic is:</=
div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>1. Original rubber mats are original=
</div><div>2. Carpet is a non-original floor covering.=C2=A0 The Score Shee=
ts dictate the Standard Deduction that should be assessed based on carpet t=
ype.=C2=A0 No consideration is given to how closely the carpet installation=
 compares/contrasts with the original rubber mat design or installation.</d=
iv><div>3. All other materials used for the purpose of covering floors are =
non-original. =C2=A0</div><div>4.=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(54,57,64);f=
ont-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;text-align:center;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">=E2=88=B4=C2=A0</span>Floor coverings manufa=
ctured from non-original material/s should be subject to the same Standard =
Deduction as carpet</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 16, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Randy=
 Hicks &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noref=
errer noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br=
 clear=3D"none"><div><div><div>Brian, just a couple quick comments and then=
 I=E2=80=99m out until after Enclave.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv>First, You stated:</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:HelveticaNeue;font-size:14px">=C2=A0&quot;</span><b style=3D"font-=
family:HelveticaNeue"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">(=E2=80=9Crubber like =
or close attempts=E2=80=9D while simple, is entirely subjective.=C2=A0 This=
 is why I raised the question regarding the Hardura installation that you=
=E2=80=99re going to witness next week.=C2=A0 Is Hardura rubber like, the=
=C2=A0surface=C2=A0kinda is.=C2=A0 Is the=C2=A0attempt to match the origina=
l design of the molded rubber floor covering close, sort of=E2=80=A6).=E2=
=80=9D</span></b><div><font face=3D"HelveticaNeue"><span style=3D"font-size=
:14px"><b><br clear=3D"none"></b></span></font></div><div><font face=3D"Hel=
veticaNeue">Yes, our judging is very subjective. When you are judging do yo=
u always mark the <u>maximum deduction</u> to a line item if you are going =
to deduct for it? Do you ever deduct 1/2 point vs. 1 point, deduct 4 points=
 instead of max =C2=A05 for a line item?=C2=A0 If you do, you are the first=
 judge I=E2=80=99ve ever seen do it.=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none"></font><div><f=
ont face=3D"HelveticaNeue"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><b><br clear=3D"n=
one"></b></span></font></div><div><font face=3D"HelveticaNeue"><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px"><b>Secondly, You state:</b></span></font></div><div><fo=
nt face=3D"HelveticaNeue"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><b><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></b></span></font></div><div><ul style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue"><l=
i><span style=3D"font-size:14px">&quot;Original mats =3D No deduction for o=
riginality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></li><li><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:14px">Carpet - 15 - 20 point deduction (depending on carpet=
 type) for non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition</span></=
li><li><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Any other material - 20 point deducti=
on for non-originality, up to 6 points deduction for condition&quot;</span>=
</li></ul><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>So, you are telling me that yo=
u would rather see an entrant use Carpet instead of trying to make the floo=
r covering look as close as possible to Original? Less points for Carpet? I=
 can not follow the logic here! This is not how we encourage entrant to get=
 their cars as lose as possible to original, and yes, there needs to be som=
e deduction.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Randy</div><div><br cl=
ear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 16, 2022, at 6:12 AM, BR=
IAN THORNTON &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D=
"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:</d=
iv><br clear=3D"none"><div><div><div><ul><li><span style=3D"font-size:14px"=
>Original mats =3D No originality deduction <b>(I agree)</b></span></li><li=
><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Carpet - Up to 20 point deduction for non-o=
riginality, up to 6 points for condition <b>(I agree)</b></span></li><li><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:14px">Rubber like or close attempts to match the ori=
ginal - Up to 10 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 points for co=
ndition </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:14px">(=E2=80=9Crubber like or c=
lose attempts=E2=80=9D while simple, is entirely subjective.=C2=A0 This is =
why I raised the question regarding the Hardura installation that you=E2=80=
=99re going to witness next week.=C2=A0 Is Hardura rubber like, the=C2=A0su=
rface=C2=A0kinda is.=C2=A0 Is the=C2=A0attempt to match the original design=
 of the molded rubber floor covering close, sort of=E2=80=A6).</span></b></=
li></ul><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div=
><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Bruce has presented the best rationale=
 that I=E2=80=99ve seen as to why the Standard Deductions for=C2=A0carpet a=
pply to all other floor covering materials/types other than the original ru=
bber floor mats. =C2=A0</span></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><p s=
tyle=3D"font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">&quot;The =
Standard Deductions for floor coverings for Sprites were established to add=
ress anything other than the original floor coverings. On AN5=E2=80=99s thi=
s meant rubber mats, on AN6-AN9=E2=80=99s this meant carpet. They were word=
ed to cover what had usually been presented other than the original materia=
ls.=C2=A0</p><p style=3D"font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size=
:16px">They call out the two types of carpeting because they were used in A=
N6- AN9 (in the case of cut pile) or are offered by many current suppliers =
(in the case of loop). We did not call out shag carpeting or indoor/outdoor=
 carpeting. In my opinion, just because someone shows up with a material th=
at is not specifically called out in the Standard Deductions, does not mean=
 they should receive less than a Standard Deduction.&quot;=C2=A0</p></div><=
div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px">The result=
ing simple (and importantly objective) Standard Deduction scale for AN5/AN6=
 cars is as follows in my view:</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4px"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><ul><li><span style=3D"font-size:=
14px">Original mats =3D No deduction for originality, up to 6 points deduct=
ion for condition</span></li><li><span style=3D"font-size:14px">Carpet - 15=
 - 20 point deduction (depending on carpet type) for non-originality, up to=
 6 points deduction for condition</span></li><li><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4px">Any other material - 20 point deduction for non-originality, up to 6 p=
oints deduction for condition</span></li></ul><div><span style=3D"font-size=
:14px"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px">=
Have a safe and enjoyable trip for=C2=A0those attending Enclave.</span></di=
v><div><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div>=
<span style=3D"font-size:14px">Regards,</span></div><div><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:14px"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:=
14px">Brian</span></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div><br clear=
=3D"none"></div></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 15, 2022, =
at 7:37 PM, Randy Hicks &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:randyhicks@me.=
com" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt=
; wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none"><div><div>Yes Rick it i s very simple.<div=
><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=E2=80=A2 Original Mats - No Deduction.</div=
><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=E2=80=A2 Rubber like or close attempts=
 to match original =C2=A0- Up to 10 Point Deduction on Originality, 6 point=
s Condition.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>=E2=80=A2 Carpet - Up =
to 20 Point Deduction, 6 points Condition.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv><div>That is how I interrupt the Sprite Guidelines and Score Sheets.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Randy<br clear=3D"none"><div><b=
r clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Sep 15, 2022, at 7:22 PM=
, HealeyRick &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wro=
te:</div><br clear=3D"none"><div><div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica N=
eue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">In my =
view we are making this a whole lot harder than it needs to be solely becau=
se the extreme difficulty in finding the original floor coverings.=C2=A0 It=
&#39;s simple</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"lt=
r">There is only one original floor covering and those are the rubber mats =
I&#39;ve posted here (I think this may be Ben Kenion&#39;s car)</div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Carpet was never avail=
able on an AN5/early 6</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">If you have the original mats - no deduction</div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Anything else gets a deductio=
n - whatever number of points is deemed appropriate - whether it&#39;s loop=
 or cut pile, it&#39;s not original .. period.=C2=A0 Hardura/vinyl/karvel/m=
ulti-colored deep shag carpet ... not original ... period.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I can&#39;t poi=
nt specifically to when the AMCO kit became available and don&#39;t know if=
 it was offered during production of the AN5/6.=C2=A0 Someone would have to=
 show by contemporaneous advertisement etc that it was a &quot;period acces=
sory&quot;. and even then, they would still need the rubber factory center =
mat or face some kind of deduction.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none=
"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">If the supply or smoothcase transmissions dries up=
 and become &quot;unavailable&quot;. would we say it&#39;s ok to put in a r=
ibcase because it&#39;s close or even a Datsun 5 speed because it was the o=
nly think available?=C2=A0 If we are going to be concours dogmatists we sho=
uld stay domatic and not make excuses for expedience.=C2=A0 This coming fro=
m a Nasty Boy guy!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Rick<d=
iv>&quot;Madman in a death machine&quot; Follow My Nasty Boy Build:  <a sha=
pe=3D"rect" href=3D"http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo" rel=3D"noreferrer noopener"=
 target=3D"_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yj52fwo</a></div></div></div>
        <div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
       =20
        </div><div id=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7b=
f403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yahoo_quoted_3621902822">
            <div style=3D"font-family:&#39;Helvetica Neue&#39;,Helvetica,Ar=
ial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a">
               =20
                <div>
                    On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 07:04:07 PM EDT, Ric=
k Fisk &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"no=
referrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:
                </div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><br clear=3D"none"></div>
                <div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Randy,<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=
=3D"none">I bought my red &#39;59 AN5 in January 1968 and this was the bigg=
est piece of the rubber mats left at that time.=C2=A0 Nine years in the Cal=
ifornia sun rotted the mats away to crumbling dust.=C2=A0 My blue &#39;60 A=
N5 vintage racer still has the complete door liners in place, but they have=
 been painted and that may have helped preserve them.=C2=A0 That car was or=
iginally Leaf Green and it seems to me that more of the green interiors hav=
e survived than the other colors.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Horl=
er&#39;s book has some photos of the mats that kind sorta show the flat and=
 ribbed areas.<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Rick<div id=3D"m_800063=
1231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqt=
fd76126"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div><div id=3D"m_800=
0631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531=
yqtfd22357"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"m_800063=
1231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqt=
fd40514"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"m_800063123=
1922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095ydp51cf0531yqtfd6=
3679"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><br clear=3D"none"><div i=
d=3D"m_8000631231922187027ydpee66200ayiv3764382856ydp7bf403cayiv0856481095y=
dp51cf0531yqtfd94188"><br clear=3D"none">&gt; On Sep 15, 2022, at 6:01 PM, =
Randy Hicks &lt;<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"=
noreferrer noopener" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
clear=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; =EF=BB=BFHi Guys, can someone s=
end me some photos of Original Rubber Floor Covering for the AN5?<br clear=
=3D"none">&gt; <br clear=3D"none">&gt; Thanks,<br clear=3D"none">&gt; <br c=
lear=3D"none">&gt; Randy<br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div><span>&lt;1960_Austin_Healey_Bug_Frog_Eye_Sprite_Surviv=
or_Interior.jpeg&gt;</span></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"none"></di=
v></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br c=
lear=3D"none"></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div=
></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></blockquote></div=
></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote></div></div></div></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div></div></div>
            </div>
        </div></div></div></div>

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