Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Interference

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 23:03:34 -0400

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I bought a new Fiat X1/9 in 1975.  The timing belt was supposed to be change=
d every 50,000 miles.  At 40,000 miles I sold the car to a girlfriend.  At 5=
3,000 miles the belt broke with the engine running at idle while she was wai=
ting for a red light.  At least half of the valves were bent.

> On May 5, 2022, at 10:19 PM, Greg Higgins via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
eam.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I owned a 1977 Honda Civic with a 1.2 litre engine, I bought the car new. T=
he
> timing belt had to be changed every 50.000 miles on that model. I was 6000=
 miles
> over the timing belt's best before mileage. The timing belt broke while go=
ing to work one afternoon.
> There was no damage to the engine, a new belt and I was good to go. I made=
 sure I was under
> 50,000 miles when I replaced that one. Lesson learned.
>=20
> Greg Higgins
>=20
>> On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 4:46 PM Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridgets@a=
utox.team.net> wrote:
>> I don=E2=80=99t suppose having 1.5 rockers helps the situation much eithe=
r.
>> Mike M
>>=20
>>> On Thu, May 5, 2022, 1:41 PM Weslake1330 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> I always thought it depended on the cam and rockers whether or not the v=
alves would hit the piston if the belt broke on an A-series.  A long time ag=
o my dyno guy said for my engine if the belt broke the valves would definite=
ly hit the piston.  No, I don't have the full valve lift figure handy.
>>>=20
>>>> On Thu, 5 May 2022 at 20:16, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
eam.net> wrote:
>>>> Forgot to add both valves were bent as well.
>>>>=20
>>>> > On May 5, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>> >=20
>>>> > =EF=BB=BFYes, the 1275 is an interference engine.  In this photo you c=
an see where the valves beat the crap out of the top of the piston.  The pis=
ton broke in half at the wrist pin and the top half of the piston stayed at t=
he top of the bore.
>>>> >=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> >> On May 5, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridgets=
@autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> =EF=BB=BF
>>>> >> When I rebuilt my 1275 for the Bugeye I converted to belt drive for t=
iming.  Keeps the timing spot on.  It occurs to me that like other cars the t=
iming belt has a limited life and must be changed.  To be honest the instruc=
tions did not say when this should occur as far as I can remember.  To be fa=
ir, the rebuilt engine has only a little over 3K miles on it, but the questi=
on arises about valve interference if the belt breaks.  To my knowledge, I d=
on't think so, but I have been proven wrong before.  Anyone know if a 1275 w=
ould be an interference engine if the belt broke?
>>>> >> Mike MacLean
>>>> >> ------------------------
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> [email-masked]
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> >> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.=
net/archive
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/=
[email-masked]
>>>> ------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>> [email-masked]
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>=20
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net=
/archive
>>>>=20
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/wes=
[email-masked]
>> ------------------------
>>=20
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>>=20
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>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
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>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net/a=
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>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I b=
ought a new Fiat X1/9 in 1975. &nbsp;The timing belt was supposed to be chan=
ged every 50,000 miles. &nbsp;At 40,000 miles I sold the car to a girlfriend=
. &nbsp;At 53,000 miles the belt broke with the engine running at idle while=
 she was waiting for a red light. &nbsp;At least half of the valves were ben=
t.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 5, 2022, at 10=
:19 PM, Greg Higgins via Spridgets &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<b=
r><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF=
<div dir=3D"ltr">I owned a 1977 Honda Civic with a 1.2 litre engine, I bough=
t the car new. The<div>timing belt had to be changed every 50.000 miles on t=
hat model. I was 6000 miles</div><div>over the timing belt's best before mil=
eage. The timing belt broke while going to work one afternoon.</div><div>The=
re was no damage to the engine, a new belt and I was good to go. I made sure=
 I was under</div><div>50,000 miles when I replaced that one. Lesson learned=
.</div><div><br></div><div>Greg Higgins</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 4:46 PM M=
ichael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
>[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">I don=E2=80=99t suppose having 1.5 r=
ockers helps the situation much either.<div dir=3D"auto">Mike M</div></div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, M=
ay 5, 2022, 1:41 PM Weslake1330 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I always thought it d=
epended on the cam and rockers whether or not the valves would hit the pisto=
n if the belt broke on an A-series.&nbsp; A long time ago my dyno guy said f=
or my engine if the belt broke the valves would definitely hit the piston.&n=
bsp; No, I don't have the full valve lift figure handy.</div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 5 May 2022 at 20=
:16, Rick Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Forgot to add bo=
th valves were bent as well.<br>
<br>
&gt; On May 5, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk@char=
termi.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFYes, the 1275 is an interference engine.&nbsp; In this photo y=
ou can see where the valves beat the crap out of the top of the piston.&nbsp=
; The piston broke in half at the wrist pin and the top half of the piston s=
tayed at the top of the bore.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; On May 5, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt;&gt; When I rebuilt my 1275 for the Bugeye I converted to belt drive for=
 timing.&nbsp; Keeps the timing spot on.&nbsp; It occurs to me that like oth=
er cars the timing belt has a limited life and must be changed.&nbsp; To be h=
onest the instructions did not say when this should occur as far as I can re=
member.&nbsp; To be fair, the rebuilt engine has only a little over 3K miles=
 on it, but the question arises about valve interference if the belt breaks.=
&nbsp; To my knowledge, I don't think so, but I have been proven wrong befor=
e.&nbsp; Anyone know if a 1275 would be an interference engine if the belt b=
roke?<br>
&gt;&gt; Mike MacLean<br>
&gt;&gt; ------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
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---

From: Weslake1330 via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2022 06:58:31 +0100

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I bought a very secondhand Mk3 Ford Cortina to replace the Mini I had
rolled (!) and changed the belt of unknown age and mileage sometime during
my ownership with no drama except learning that engine/cam timing was a
different thing to ignition timing.

On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 04:03, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> I bought a new Fiat X1/9 in 1975.  The timing belt was supposed to be
> changed every 50,000 miles.  At 40,000 miles I sold the car to a
> girlfriend.  At 53,000 miles the belt broke with the engine running at id=
le
> while she was waiting for a red light.  At least half of the valves were
> bent.
>
> On May 5, 2022, at 10:19 PM, Greg Higgins via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> I owned a 1977 Honda Civic with a 1.2 litre engine, I bought the car new.
> The
> timing belt had to be changed every 50.000 miles on that model. I was 600=
0
> miles
> over the timing belt's best before mileage. The timing belt broke while
> going to work one afternoon.
> There was no damage to the engine, a new belt and I was good to go. I mad=
e
> On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 4:46 PM Michael MacLean via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> I don=E2=80=99t suppose having 1.5 rockers helps the situation much eith=
er.
>>> I always thought it depended on the cam and rockers whether or not the
>>> valves would hit the piston if the belt broke on an A-series.  A long t=
ime
>>> ago my dyno guy said for my engine if the belt broke the valves would
>>> definitely hit the piston.  No, I don't have the full valve lift figure
>>> handy.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 5 May 2022 at 20:16, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <
>>> [email-masked]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > =EF=BB=BFYes, the 1275 is an interference engine.  In this photo you=
 can see
>>>> where the valves beat the crap out of the top of the piston.  The pist=
on
>>>> broke in half at the wrist pin and the top half of the piston stayed a=
t the
>>>> top of the bore.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> On May 5, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <
>>>> [email-masked]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> =EF=BB=BF
>>>> >> When I rebuilt my 1275 for the Bugeye I converted to belt drive for
>>>> timing.  Keeps the timing spot on.  It occurs to me that like other ca=
rs
>>>> the timing belt has a limited life and must be changed.  To be honest =
the
>>>> instructions did not say when this should occur as far as I can rememb=
er.
>>>> To be fair, the rebuilt engine has only a little over 3K miles on it, =
but
>>>> the question arises about valve interference if the belt breaks.  To m=
y
>>>> knowledge, I don't think so, but I have been proven wrong before.  Any=
one
>>>> know if a 1275 would be an interference engine if the belt broke?
>>>> >> Mike MacLean
>>>> >> ------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> [email-masked]
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>>>> ------------------------
>>>>
>>>> [email-masked]
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>
>> [email-masked]
>>
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>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
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> ------------------------
>
> [email-masked]
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--000000000000f5b89e05de518c51
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I bought a very secondhand Mk3 Ford Cortina to replace the=
 Mini I had rolled (!) and changed the belt of unknown age and mileage some=
time during my ownership with no drama except learning that engine/cam timi=
ng was a different thing to ignition timing.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 04:03, Ri=
ck Fisk via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">sprid=
[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr=
">I bought a new Fiat X1/9 in 1975.=C2=A0 The timing belt was supposed to b=
e changed every 50,000 miles.=C2=A0 At 40,000 miles I sold the car to a gir=
lfriend.=C2=A0 At 53,000 miles the belt broke with the engine running at id=
le while she was waiting for a red light.=C2=A0 At least half of the valves=
 were bent.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On May 5, 2=
022, at 10:19 PM, Greg Higgins via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridget=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">I owned a 1977 Honda Civic with a 1.2 litre engine, =
I bought the car new. The<div>timing belt had to be changed every 50.000 mi=
les on that model. I was 6000 miles</div><div>over the timing belt&#39;s be=
st before mileage. The timing belt broke while going to work one afternoon.=
</div><div>There was no damage to the engine, a new belt and I was good to =
go. I made sure I was under</div><div>50,000 miles when I replaced that one=
. Lesson learned.</div><div><br></div><div>Greg Higgins</div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 5,=
 2022 at 4:46 PM Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridg=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"a=
uto">I don=E2=80=99t suppose having 1.5 rockers helps the situation much ei=
ther.<div dir=3D"auto">Mike M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 5, 2022, 1:41 PM Weslake1330=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">weslake1330=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I always thought it depended on the cam and roc=
kers whether or not the valves would hit the piston if the belt broke on an=
 A-series.=C2=A0 A long time ago my dyno guy said for my engine if the belt=
 broke the valves would definitely hit the piston.=C2=A0 No, I don&#39;t ha=
ve the full valve lift figure handy.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 5 May 2022 at 20:16, Rick Fisk =
via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Forgot to add both valves w=
ere bent as well.<br>
<br>
&gt; On May 5, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk@cha=
rtermi.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFYes, the 1275 is an interference engine.=C2=A0 In this photo =
you can see where the valves beat the crap out of the top of the piston.=C2=
=A0 The piston broke in half at the wrist pin and the top half of the pisto=
n stayed at the top of the bore.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; On May 5, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; =EF=BB=BF<br>
&gt;&gt; When I rebuilt my 1275 for the Bugeye I converted to belt drive fo=
r timing.=C2=A0 Keeps the timing spot on.=C2=A0 It occurs to me that like o=
ther cars the timing belt has a limited life and must be changed.=C2=A0 To =
be honest the instructions did not say when this should occur as far as I c=
an remember.=C2=A0 To be fair, the rebuilt engine has only a little over 3K=
 miles on it, but the question arises about valve interference if the belt =
breaks.=C2=A0 To my knowledge, I don&#39;t think so, but I have been proven=
 wrong before.=C2=A0 Anyone know if a 1275 would be an interference engine =
if the belt broke?<br>
&gt;&gt; Mike MacLean<br>
&gt;&gt; ------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" rel=3D"norefer=
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