Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:46:12 -0500

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In my experience the usual cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough.  T=
he first press of the pedal moves the shoes away from their resting position=
, but not all the way to the drum.   A quick second press of the pedal moves=
 them even further.  A quick third press of the pedal may put the shoes in c=
ontact with the drum and the pedal feels hard.  Release the pedal and the sh=
oes move all the way back to their initial resting position and you start al=
l over again when you want to use the brakes.  No air in the system and the p=
edal feels great once you get the shoes all the way out to the drum.

Rick

> On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
am.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I don't mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to learn!  O=
k.  I guess hard is a relative term.  Assuming I'm wrong, and there is no ai=
r in the system what is causing the pedal to need to pump up?
>=20
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> Sorry Wes,
>> I've got to disagree with part of your last comment. <snip> If the pedal p=
umps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system.<end=
 snip>.  If the pedal stays hard there is NO air (or leaks) in the system.  I=
f there is air in the system then the pedal will feel 'springy' or 'bouncy'.=
   Air will always act as a spring within a fluid system and anything akin t=
o a discerning foot will feel it. =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Fully agree with the rest of your post - and I've had people saying the b=
rakes are fine as the pedal very slowly sinks to the floor!.  It feels firm b=
ut the pedal sinks over a minute or so.  (If no fluid is lost there is a sea=
l leak in the m/cyl). =20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Stay well,
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Guy R Day
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Weslake1330 via Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
>> To: "Michael MacLean" <[email-masked]>
>> Cc: "Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
>> Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan, 22 At 09:22
>> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed
>>=20
>> Air can get trapped in a solid brake line and not easily find its way to t=
he slave to be bled out.  I have heard some people say that after driving th=
e car a few times the air moves about and then the system bleeds better. On m=
y Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and then come back to it and re-bled i=
t with a better result.  I'm also always resigned to using massive amount of=
 fluid and pumping it all through.  I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but sti=
ll use a basic bleeding tool as well.
>>=20
>> If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air i=
n the system.  If it pumps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard - somethin=
g isn't quite seating correcting or you have some other sort of leak.
>>=20
>> Regards
>>=20
>>=20
>> Daniel
>>=20
>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridgets@a=
utox.team.net> wrote:
>>> You're right.  I got it backasswards.  New master with twin 3/4" bores. =
  The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes and 3/4" bore for the=
 Datsun clutch in the other.  Rear is adjusted as best as possible.  Pity yo=
u can't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the drum.  I will try t=
o wear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps. =20
>>> Mike
>>>=20
>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> wrote:=

>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>> =20
>>>>  Front disc brakes should have a 3/4" master.  Make sure the rear drums=
 are adjusted properly.  If the rears aren't adjusted properly you quite oft=
en will have to pump the pedal to get it firm.
>>>> =20
>>>>  Rick
>>>> =20
>>>>  > On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridge=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>  >=20
>>>>  > =EF=BB=BF
>>>>  > The front drum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were recently=
 swapped out for disc brakes.  The old master was 3/4" bore with a 7/8" slee=
ve for the Datsun clutch.  The new master is 7/8" in both bores to actuate t=
he calipers correctly.  Installation went without a hitch and the car was bl=
ed multiple times, but for some reason the brake pedal goes down aways befor=
e it works.  You can actually pump the pedal up a bit. We can't understand i=
t.  There are no leaks and it was bled properly, butt it acts like there is s=
till air in the system.  Any ideas?
>>>>  > Mike MacLean
>>>>  > ------------------------
>>>>  >=20
>>>>  > [email-masked]
>>>>  >=20
>>>>  > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>  > Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>  >=20
>>>>  > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.=
net/archive
>>>>  >=20
>>>>  > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/=
[email-masked]
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>  ------------------------
>>> =20
>>>  [email-masked]
>>> =20
>>>  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>  Suggested annual donation: $12.75
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[email-masked]
>>> =20
>> =20
>> ------------------------
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>=20
>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>=20
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rchive
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@btinternet.com
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> ------------------------
>=20
> [email-masked]
>=20
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>=20
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>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In m=
y experience the usual cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough. &nbsp=
;The first press of the pedal moves the shoes away from their resting positi=
on, but not all the way to the drum. &nbsp; A quick second press of the peda=
l moves them even further. &nbsp;A quick third press of the pedal may put th=
e shoes in contact with the drum and the pedal feels hard. &nbsp;Release the=
 pedal and the shoes move all the way back to their initial resting position=
 and you start all over again when you want to use the brakes. &nbsp;No air i=
n the system and the pedal feels great once you get the shoes all the way ou=
t to the drum.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Rick</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, We=
slake1330 via Spridgets &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blo=
ckquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D=
"ltr">I don't mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to lear=
n!&nbsp; Ok.&nbsp; I guess hard is a relative term.&nbsp; Assuming I'm wrong=
, and there is no air in the system what is causing the pedal to need to pum=
p up?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:grday@btinte=
rnet.com">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>     <div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"unic=
ode-bidi:embed">Sorry Wes, <div><p>I've got to disagree with part of your la=
st comment. &lt;snip&gt; <span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal p=
umps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system.&lt;=
end snip&gt;.  </span><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal stay=
s hard there is NO air (or leaks) in the system.  If there is air in the sys=
tem then the pedal will feel 'springy' or 'bouncy'.   Air will always act as=
 a spring within a fluid system and anything akin to a discerning foot will f=
eel it.  </span></p><div><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span>=
</p><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Fully agree with the rest of you=
r post - and I've had people saying the brakes are fine as the pedal very sl=
owly sinks to the floor!.  It feels firm but the pedal sinks over a minute o=
r so.  (If no fluid is lost there is a seal leak in the m/cyl).  </span></p>=
<p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap;display:inline"><br></span></p><div><=
br></div><div><p>Stay well,</p><p><br></p><p>Guy R Day</p><blockquote style=3D=
"margin:0px auto;padding:0px 2em;border-left:2px solid rgb(0,173,229);white-=
space:pre-wrap"><br><br>------ Original Message ------<br>From: "Weslake1330=
 via Spridgets" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_b=
lank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To: "Michael MacLean" &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
om</a>&gt;<br>Cc: "Spridgets" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan=
, 22 At 09:22<br>Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr=
">Air can get trapped in a solid brake line and not easily find its way to t=
he slave to be bled out.  I have heard some people say that after driving th=
e car a few times the air moves about and then the system bleeds better. On m=
y Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and then come back to it and re-bled i=
t with a better result.  I'm also always resigned to using massive amount of=
 fluid and pumping it all through.  I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but sti=
ll use a basic bleeding tool as well.<div><br></div><div>If the pedal pumps u=
p hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system.  If it pu=
mps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard - something isn't quite seating c=
orrecting or you have some other sort of leak.</div><div><br></div><div>Rega=
rds</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Daniel</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 a=
t 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@autox=
.team.net" target=3D"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></sp=
an></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>You're right.  I got it backasswards.  New master wit=
h twin 3/4" bores.   The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes an=
d 3/4" bore for the Datsun clutch in the other.  Rear is adjusted as best as=
 possible.  Pity you can't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the=
 drum.  I will try to wear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps. =
 <br></div><div>Mike<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>refisk@chartermi=
.net</span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">Hi Mike,<br> <br> Front disc brakes should have a 3/4"=
 master.  Make sure the rear drums are adjusted properly.  If the rears aren=
't adjusted properly you quite often will have to pump the pedal to get it f=
irm.<br> <br> Rick<br> <br> &gt; On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLe=
an via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_=
blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
 &gt; <br> &gt; =EF=BB=BF<br> &gt; The front drum brakes and master cylinder=
 on my Bugeye were recently swapped out for disc brakes.  The old master was=
 3/4" bore with a 7/8" sleeve for the Datsun clutch.  The new master is 7/8"=
 in both bores to actuate the calipers correctly.  Installation went without=
 a hitch and the car was bled multiple times, but for some reason the brake p=
edal goes down aways before it works.  You can actually pump the pedal up a b=
it. We can't understand it.  There are no leaks and it was bled properly, bu=
tt it acts like there is still air in the system.  Any ideas?<br> &gt; Mike M=
acLean<br> &gt; ------------------------<br> &gt; <br> &gt; <a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>[email-masked]=
</span><span></span></a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br=
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am.net/pipermail/spridgets</a>  <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; Unsubsc=
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