Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed

From: Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:48:07 -0500

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Daniel - think hoses.  =F0=9F=98=81

> On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> In my experience the usual cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough.=
  The first press of the pedal moves the shoes away from their resting posit=
ion, but not all the way to the drum.   A quick second press of the pedal mo=
ves them even further.  A quick third press of the pedal may put the shoes i=
n contact with the drum and the pedal feels hard.  Release the pedal and the=
 shoes move all the way back to their initial resting position and you start=
 all over again when you want to use the brakes.  No air in the system and t=
he pedal feels great once you get the shoes all the way out to the drum.
>=20
> Rick
>=20
>>> On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spridgets <spridgets@autox.=
team.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> I don't mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to learn! =
 Ok.  I guess hard is a relative term.  Assuming I'm wrong, and there is no a=
ir in the system what is causing the pedal to need to pump up?
>>=20
>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>> Sorry Wes,
>>> I've got to disagree with part of your last comment. <snip> If the pedal=
 pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the system.<e=
nd snip>.  If the pedal stays hard there is NO air (or leaks) in the system.=
  If there is air in the system then the pedal will feel 'springy' or 'bounc=
y'.   Air will always act as a spring within a fluid system and anything aki=
n to a discerning foot will feel it. =20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Fully agree with the rest of your post - and I've had people saying the b=
rakes are fine as the pedal very slowly sinks to the floor!.  It feels firm b=
ut the pedal sinks over a minute or so.  (If no fluid is lost there is a sea=
l leak in the m/cyl). =20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Stay well,
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Guy R Day
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "Weslake1330 via Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
>>> To: "Michael MacLean" <[email-masked]>
>>> Cc: "Spridgets" <[email-masked]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan, 22 At 09:22
>>> Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed
>>>=20
>>> Air can get trapped in a solid brake line and not easily find its way to=
 the slave to be bled out.  I have heard some people say that after driving t=
he car a few times the air moves about and then the system bleeds better. On=
 my Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and then come back to it and re-ble=
d it with a better result.  I'm also always resigned to using massive amount=
 of fluid and pumping it all through.  I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but s=
till use a basic bleeding tool as well.
>>>=20
>>> If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air i=
n the system.  If it pumps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard - somethin=
g isn't quite seating correcting or you have some other sort of leak.
>>>=20
>>> Regards
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Daniel
>>>=20
>>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridgets@=
autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>> You're right.  I got it backasswards.  New master with twin 3/4" bores.=
   The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes and 3/4" bore for th=
e Datsun clutch in the other.  Rear is adjusted as best as possible.  Pity y=
ou can't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the drum.  I will try=
 to wear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps. =20
>>>> Mike
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> wrote=
:
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  Front disc brakes should have a 3/4" master.  Make sure the rear drum=
s are adjusted properly.  If the rears aren't adjusted properly you quite of=
ten will have to pump the pedal to get it firm.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  Rick
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  > On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <spridg=
[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>>>  >=20
>>>>>  > =EF=BB=BF
>>>>>  > The front drum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were recentl=
y swapped out for disc brakes.  The old master was 3/4" bore with a 7/8" sle=
eve for the Datsun clutch.  The new master is 7/8" in both bores to actuate t=
he calipers correctly.  Installation went without a hitch and the car was bl=
ed multiple times, but for some reason the brake pedal goes down aways befor=
e it works.  You can actually pump the pedal up a bit. We can't understand i=
t.  There are no leaks and it was bled properly, butt it acts like there is s=
till air in the system.  Any ideas?
>>>>>  > Mike MacLean
>>>>>  > ------------------------
>>>>>  >=20
>>>>>  > [email-masked]
>>>>>  >=20
>>>>>  > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>  > Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>>>  >=20
>>>>>  > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team=
.net/archive
>>>>>  >=20
>>>>>  > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets=
/[email-masked]
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>  ------------------------
>>>> =20
>>>>  [email-masked]
>>>> =20
>>>>  Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>  Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>> =20
>>>>  Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.ne=
t/archive
>>>> =20
>>>>  Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/we=
[email-masked]
>>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> ------------------------
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> [email-masked]
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>=20
>>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net/=
archive
>>>=20
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>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/grda=
[email-masked]
>>>=20
>> ------------------------
>>=20
>> [email-masked]
>>=20
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation: $12.75
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dan=
iel - think hoses. &nbsp;=F0=9F=98=81</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite">On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Rick Fisk &lt;[email-masked]=
&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"=
ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In my experience the usua=
l cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough. &nbsp;The first press of t=
he pedal moves the shoes away from their resting position, but not all the w=
ay to the drum. &nbsp; A quick second press of the pedal moves them even fur=
ther. &nbsp;A quick third press of the pedal may put the shoes in contact wi=
th the drum and the pedal feels hard. &nbsp;Release the pedal and the shoes m=
ove all the way back to their initial resting position and you start all ove=
r again when you want to use the brakes. &nbsp;No air in the system and the p=
edal feels great once you get the shoes all the way out to the drum.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Rick</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spridget=
s &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">I don't mind fr=
iendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to learn!&nbsp; Ok.&nbsp; I g=
uess hard is a relative term.&nbsp; Assuming I'm wrong, and there is no air i=
n the system what is causing the pedal to need to pump up?</div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022=
 at 10:17, GUY DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">grday@btinter=
net.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"><u></u>     <div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"unicode-bidi:embed">Sorry W=
es, <div><p>I've got to disagree with part of your last comment. &lt;snip&gt=
; <span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal pumps up hard and absolu=
tely stays hard there is still air in the system.&lt;end snip&gt;.  </span><=
span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal stays hard there is NO air (=
or leaks) in the system.  If there is air in the system then the pedal will f=
eel 'springy' or 'bouncy'.   Air will always act as a spring within a fluid s=
ystem and anything akin to a discerning foot will feel it.  </span></p><div>=
<p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p><span style=3D"whi=
te-space:pre-wrap">Fully agree with the rest of your post - and I've had peo=
ple saying the brakes are fine as the pedal very slowly sinks to the floor!.=
  It feels firm but the pedal sinks over a minute or so.  (If no fluid is lo=
st there is a seal leak in the m/cyl).  </span></p><p><span style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;display:inline"><br></span></p><div><br></div><div><p>Stay wel=
l,</p><p><br></p><p>Guy R Day</p><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px auto;paddin=
g:0px 2em;border-left:2px solid rgb(0,173,229);white-space:pre-wrap"><br><br=
>------ Original Message ------<br>From: "Weslake1330 via Spridgets" &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]=
am.net</a>&gt;<br>To: "Michael MacLean" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:springer.mike5=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: "Spr=
idgets" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">sp=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan, 22 At 09:22<br>Subje=
ct: Re: [Spridgets] Brake Bleed<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Air can get trapped i=
n a solid brake line and not easily find its way to the slave to be bled out=
.  I have heard some people say that after driving the car a few times the a=
ir moves about and then the system bleeds better. On my Sprite I've sometime=
s left it a week and then come back to it and re-bled it with a better resul=
t.  I'm also always resigned to using massive amount of fluid and pumping it=
 all through.  I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but still use a basic bleedi=
ng tool as well.<div><br></div><div>If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutel=
y stays hard there is still air in the system.  If it pumps up hard but won'=
t stay absolutely hard - something isn't quite seating correcting or you hav=
e some other sort of leak.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><br></=
div><div><br></div><div>Daniel</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Michael Mac=
Lean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv>You're right.  I got it backasswards.  New master with twin 3/4" bores.  =
 The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes and 3/4" bore for the D=
atsun clutch in the other.  Rear is adjusted as best as possible.  Pity you c=
an't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the drum.  I will try to w=
ear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps.  <br></div><div>Mike<br=
></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk=
@chartermi.net" target=3D"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></s=
pan></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">Hi Mike,<br> <br> Front disc brakes should have a 3/4" master.  Make sure t=
he rear drums are adjusted properly.  If the rears aren't adjusted properly y=
ou quite often will have to pump the pedal to get it firm.<br> <br> Rick<br>=
 <br> &gt; On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>spridgets=
@autox.team.net</span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br> &gt; <br> &gt; =EF=BB=
=BF<br> &gt; The front drum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were rec=
ently swapped out for disc brakes.  The old master was 3/4" bore with a 7/8"=
 sleeve for the Datsun clutch.  The new master is 7/8" in both bores to actu=
ate the calipers correctly.  Installation went without a hitch and the car w=
as bled multiple times, but for some reason the brake pedal goes down aways b=
efore it works.  You can actually pump the pedal up a bit. We can't understa=
nd it.  There are no leaks and it was bled properly, butt it acts like there=
 is still air in the system.  Any ideas?<br> &gt; Mike MacLean<br> &gt; ----=
--------------------<br> &gt; <br> &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]=
am.net" target=3D"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></span>=
</a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br> &gt; Suggested annu=
al donation: $12.75<br> &gt; <br> &gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.n=
et/pipermail/spridgets" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/spri=
dgets</a>  <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//autox.team.net/archive</a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D=
"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/refisk@charterm=
i.net</a><br> <br> </blockquote></div> ------------------------<br> <br> <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>spridgets@au=
tox.team.net</span><span></span></a><br> <br> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.=
team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><=
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w.team.net/pipermail/spridgets" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/piperm=
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k">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br> <br> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D=
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ail.com</a><br> </blockquote></div> <hr>------------------------<br>
<br>
<span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">spridget=
[email-masked]</a></span><span></span><br>
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/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets" target=3D"_blan=
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ions/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
<span>------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span>spridgets@au=
tox.team.net</span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: http://www.team.net/do=
nate.html</span><br><span>Suggested annual donation: $12.75</span><br><span>=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net/archive

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---

From: Michael MacLean via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 14:14:38 -0800

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New stainless steel braided hoses on the calipers.  Same old 20 year old
hose in the rear.  Something to think about I guess.
Mike M

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 1:48 PM Rick Fisk via Spridgets <
[email-masked]> wrote:

> In my experience the usual cause is rear brakes not adjusted tight
> enough.  The first press of the pedal moves the shoes away from their
> resting position, but not all the way to the drum.   A quick second press
> of the pedal moves them even further.  A quick third press of the pedal m=
ay
> put the shoes in contact with the drum and the pedal feels hard.  Release
> the pedal and the shoes move all the way back to their initial resting
> position and you start all over again when you want to use the brakes.  N=
o
> air in the system and the pedal feels great once you get the shoes all th=
e
> way out to the drum.
>
> Rick
>
> On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spridgets <
> [email-masked]> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> I don't mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to learn!
> Ok.  I guess hard is a relative term.  Assuming I'm wrong, and there is n=
o
> air in the system what is causing the pedal to need to pump up?
>
>> I've got to disagree with part of your last comment. <snip> If the pedal
>> pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air in the
>> system.<end snip>. If the pedal stays hard there is NO air (or leaks) in
>> the system. If there is air in the system then the pedal will feel
>> 'springy' or 'bouncy'. Air will always act as a spring within a fluid
>> system and anything akin to a discerning foot will feel it.
>>
>>
>> Fully agree with the rest of your post - and I've had people saying the
>> brakes are fine as the pedal very slowly sinks to the floor!. It feels f=
irm
>> but the pedal sinks over a minute or so. (If no fluid is lost there is a
>> seal leak in the m/cyl).
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well,
>>
>>
>> Guy R Day
>>
>>
>>
>> Air can get trapped in a solid brake line and not easily find its way to
>> the slave to be bled out. I have heard some people say that after drivin=
g
>> the car a few times the air moves about and then the system bleeds bette=
r.
>> On my Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and then come back to it and
>> re-bled it with a better result. I'm also always resigned to using massi=
ve
>> amount of fluid and pumping it all through. I do have s/s easy bleed
>> nipples but still use a basic bleeding tool as well.
>>
>> If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is still air
>> in the system. If it pumps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard -
>> something isn't quite seating correcting or you have some other sort of
>> leak.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <
>> [email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>>> You're right. I got it backasswards. New master with twin 3/4" bores.
>>> The old one was 7/8" in one bore for the drum brakes and 3/4" bore for =
the
>>> Datsun clutch in the other. Rear is adjusted as best as possible. Pity =
you
>>> can't get shoes arced anymore for full contact with the drum. I will tr=
y to
>>> wear them in and keep adjusting to see if that helps.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>
>>>> Front disc brakes should have a 3/4" master. Make sure the rear drums
>>>> are adjusted properly. If the rears aren't adjusted properly you quite
>>>> often will have to pump the pedal to get it firm.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> > On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets <
>>>> [email-masked]> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > =EF=BB=BF
>>>> > The front drum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were recently
>>>> swapped out for disc brakes. The old master was 3/4" bore with a 7/8"
>>>> sleeve for the Datsun clutch. The new master is 7/8" in both bores to
>>>> actuate the calipers correctly. Installation went without a hitch and =
the
>>>> car was bled multiple times, but for some reason the brake pedal goes =
down
>>>> aways before it works. You can actually pump the pedal up a bit. We ca=
n't
>>>> understand it. There are no leaks and it was bled properly, butt it ac=
ts
>>>> like there is still air in the system. Any ideas?
>>>> > Mike MacLean
>>>> > ------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > [email-masked]
>>>> >
>>>> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------
>>>
>>> [email-masked]
>>>
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>>>
>> ------------------------------
>> ------------------------
>>
>> [email-masked]
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]
>>
>> ------------------------
>
> [email-masked]
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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> ------------------------
>
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--0000000000004e70c505d5ba5dc5
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">New stainless steel braided hoses on the calipers.=C2=A0 =
Same old 20 year old hose in the rear.=C2=A0 Something to think about I gue=
ss.<div dir=3D"auto">Mike M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 1:48 PM Rick Fisk vi=
a Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">spridgets@autox=
.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Daniel - think hoses. =C2=
=A0=F0=9F=98=81</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan =
16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In my experience the usual cause=
 is rear brakes not adjusted tight enough.=C2=A0 The first press of the ped=
al moves the shoes away from their resting position, but not all the way to=
 the drum. =C2=A0 A quick second press of the pedal moves them even further=
.=C2=A0 A quick third press of the pedal may put the shoes in contact with =
the drum and the pedal feels hard.=C2=A0 Release the pedal and the shoes mo=
ve all the way back to their initial resting position and you start all ove=
r again when you want to use the brakes.=C2=A0 No air in the system and the=
 pedal feels great once you get the shoes all the way out to the drum.</div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Rick</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br=
><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spr=
idgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquot=
e></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr=
">I don&#39;t mind friendly disagreements - its one of the best ways to lea=
rn!=C2=A0 Ok.=C2=A0 I guess hard is a relative term.=C2=A0 Assuming I&#39;m=
 wrong, and there is no air in the system what is causing the pedal to need=
 to pump up?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:grd=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><u></u>     <div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"unicode-bidi:embed">Sorry Wes,=
 <div><p>I&#39;ve got to disagree with part of your last comment. &lt;snip&=
gt; <span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal pumps up hard and abs=
olutely stays hard there is still air in the system.&lt;end snip&gt;.  </sp=
an><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">If the pedal stays hard there is NO=
 air (or leaks) in the system.  If there is air in the system then the peda=
l will feel &#39;springy&#39; or &#39;bouncy&#39;.   Air will always act as=
 a spring within a fluid system and anything akin to a discerning foot will=
 feel it.  </span></p><div><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap"><br></sp=
an></p><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Fully agree with the rest of=
 your post - and I&#39;ve had people saying the brakes are fine as the peda=
l very slowly sinks to the floor!.  It feels firm but the pedal sinks over =
a minute or so.  (If no fluid is lost there is a seal leak in the m/cyl).  =
</span></p><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap;display:inline"><br></spa=
n></p><div><br></div><div><p>Stay well,</p><p><br></p><p>Guy R Day</p><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin:0px auto;padding:0px 2em;border-left:2px solid rgb(0=
,173,229);white-space:pre-wrap"><br><br>------ Original Message ------<br>F=
rom: &quot;Weslake1330 via Spridgets&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@=
autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]=
et</a>&gt;<br>To: &quot;Michael MacLean&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:springe=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">springer.mike51@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: &quot;Spridgets&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridget=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email-masked]=
.net</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan, 22 At 09:22<br>Subject: Re: [Spridget=
s] Brake Bleed<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Air can get trapped in a solid brake=
 line and not easily find its way to the slave to be bled out.  I have hear=
d some people say that after driving the car a few times the air moves abou=
t and then the system bleeds better. On my Sprite I&#39;ve sometimes left i=
t a week and then come back to it and re-bled it with a better result.  I&#=
39;m also always resigned to using massive amount of fluid and pumping it a=
ll through.  I do have s/s easy bleed nipples but still use a basic bleedin=
g tool as well.<div><br></div><div>If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutel=
y stays hard there is still air in the system.  If it pumps up hard but won=
&#39;t stay absolutely hard - something isn&#39;t quite seating correcting =
or you have some other sort of leak.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div>=
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Daniel</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49=
, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>[email-masked]</s=
pan><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>You&#39;re right.  I got it backassw=
ards.  New master with twin 3/4&quot; bores.   The old one was 7/8&quot; in=
 one bore for the drum brakes and 3/4&quot; bore for the Datsun clutch in t=
he other.  Rear is adjusted as best as possible.  Pity you can&#39;t get sh=
oes arced anymore for full contact with the drum.  I will try to wear them =
in and keep adjusting to see if that helps.  <br></div><div>Mike<br></div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:refisk@chart=
ermi.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>[email-masked]</=
span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex">Hi Mike,<br> <br> Front disc brakes should have a 3/4&quo=
t; master.  Make sure the rear drums are adjusted properly.  If the rears a=
ren&#39;t adjusted properly you quite often will have to pump the pedal to =
get it firm.<br> <br> Rick<br> <br> &gt; On Jan 15, 2022, at 11:22 PM, Mich=
ael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>[email-masked]</span><s=
pan></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br> &gt; <br> &gt; =EF=BB=BF<br> &gt; The front =
drum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were recently swapped out for =
disc brakes.  The old master was 3/4&quot; bore with a 7/8&quot; sleeve for=
 the Datsun clutch.  The new master is 7/8&quot; in both bores to actuate t=
he calipers correctly.  Installation went without a hitch and the car was b=
led multiple times, but for some reason the brake pedal goes down aways bef=
ore it works.  You can actually pump the pedal up a bit. We can&#39;t under=
stand it.  There are no leaks and it was bled properly, butt it acts like t=
here is still air in the system.  Any ideas?<br> &gt; Mike MacLean<br> &gt;=
 ------------------------<br> &gt; <br> &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:spridgets@au=
tox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>[email-masked]=
am.net</span><span></span></a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; Donate: <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.=
team.net/donate.html</a><br> &gt; Suggested annual donation: $12.75<br> &gt=
; <br> &gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets" ta=
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/a>  <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor=
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artermi.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br> <br> </blockquote></div=
> ------------------------<br> <br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked].=
net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"><span>[email-masked]</s=
pan><span></span></a><br> <br> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donat=
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m</a><br> </blockquote></div> <hr>------------------------<br>
<br>
<span><a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noreferrer">[email-masked]</a></span><span></span><br>
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</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
<span>------------------------</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">sprid=
[email-masked]</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D=
"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http=
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eam.net/pipermail/spridgets</a> =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/arch=
ive" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>=
</span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://aut=
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[email-masked]</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>-=
-----------------------<br>
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rrer">[email-masked]</a><br>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
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om</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000004e70c505d5ba5dc5--

--===============4789753927060983816==
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------------------------

[email-masked]

--===============4789753927060983816==--

---

From: daredelvis--- via Spridgets <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 15:48:02 -0800

--===============4934005124760507922==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--Apple-Mail-8BF9AAE3-A556-49D9-BBF3-C2D32BC014E5
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree with Rick. The rears have to be adjusted for the system to work well=
. You need to adjust them so there is a little drag, drive it a little with s=
ome hard stops, and adjust it again.=20
Brian

> On Jan 16, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Rick Fisk via Spridgets <[email-masked]=
.net/archive
/[email-masked]
t/archive
[email-masked]
archive
[email-masked]
rchive
[email-masked]
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets  http://autox.team.net/ar=
chive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/darede=
[email-masked]

--Apple-Mail-8BF9AAE3-A556-49D9-BBF3-C2D32BC014E5
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">I a=
gree with Rick. The rears have to be adjusted for the system to work well. Y=
ou need to adjust them so there is a little drag, drive it a little with som=
e hard stops, and adjust it again.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Brian</div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 16, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Ri=
ck Fisk via Spridgets &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:<br><br></block=
quote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<meta http-e=
quiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">In my experience the usual cause is rear brakes not=
 adjusted tight enough. &nbsp;The first press of the pedal moves the shoes a=
way from their resting position, but not all the way to the drum. &nbsp; A q=
uick second press of the pedal moves them even further. &nbsp;A quick third p=
ress of the pedal may put the shoes in contact with the drum and the pedal f=
eels hard. &nbsp;Release the pedal and the shoes move all the way back to th=
eir initial resting position and you start all over again when you want to u=
se the brakes. &nbsp;No air in the system and the pedal feels great once you=
 get the shoes all the way out to the drum.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Rick</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On=
 Jan 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, Weslake1330 via Spridgets &lt;[email-masked]=
m.net&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div di=
r=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">I don't mind friendly disagreements - it=
s one of the best ways to learn!&nbsp; Ok.&nbsp; I guess hard is a relative t=
erm.&nbsp; Assuming I'm wrong, and there is no air in the system what is cau=
sing the pedal to need to pump up?</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 10:17, GUY DAY &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>     <div><di=
v dir=3D"auto" style=3D"unicode-bidi:embed">Sorry Wes, <div><p>I've got to d=
isagree with part of your last comment. &lt;snip&gt; <span style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap">If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is s=
till air in the system.&lt;end snip&gt;.  </span><span style=3D"white-space:=
pre-wrap">If the pedal stays hard there is NO air (or leaks) in the system. =
 If there is air in the system then the pedal will feel 'springy' or 'bouncy=
'.   Air will always act as a spring within a fluid system and anything akin=
 to a discerning foot will feel it.  </span></p><div><p><span style=3D"white=
-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></p><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Full=
y agree with the rest of your post - and I've had people saying the brakes a=
re fine as the pedal very slowly sinks to the floor!.  It feels firm but the=
 pedal sinks over a minute or so.  (If no fluid is lost there is a seal leak=
 in the m/cyl).  </span></p><p><span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap;display:i=
nline"><br></span></p><div><br></div><div><p>Stay well,</p><p><br></p><p>Guy=
 R Day</p><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px auto;padding:0px 2em;border-left:2=
px solid rgb(0,173,229);white-space:pre-wrap"><br><br>------ Original Messag=
e ------<br>From: "Weslake1330 via Spridgets" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridget=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>To: "=
Michael MacLean" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"=
_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;<br>Cc: "Spridgets" &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]<=
/a>&gt;<br>Sent: Sunday, 16 Jan, 22 At 09:22<br>Subject: Re: [Spridgets] Bra=
ke Bleed<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Air can get trapped in a solid brake line a=
nd not easily find its way to the slave to be bled out.  I have heard some p=
eople say that after driving the car a few times the air moves about and the=
n the system bleeds better. On my Sprite I've sometimes left it a week and t=
hen come back to it and re-bled it with a better result.  I'm also always re=
signed to using massive amount of fluid and pumping it all through.  I do ha=
ve s/s easy bleed nipples but still use a basic bleeding tool as well.<div><=
br></div><div>If the pedal pumps up hard and absolutely stays hard there is s=
till air in the system.  If it pumps up hard but won't stay absolutely hard -=
 something isn't quite seating correcting or you have some other sort of lea=
k.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>=
Daniel</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>spridgets=
@autox.team.net</span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>You're right.  I got i=
t backasswards.  New master with twin 3/4" bores.   The old one was 7/8" in o=
ne bore for the drum brakes and 3/4" bore for the Datsun clutch in the other=
.  Rear is adjusted as best as possible.  Pity you can't get shoes arced any=
more for full contact with the drum.  I will try to wear them in and keep ad=
justing to see if that helps.  <br></div><div>Mike<br></div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 15, 2=
022 at 9:20 PM Rick Fisk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D=
"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Mike,<br> <br> Front=
 disc brakes should have a 3/4" master.  Make sure the rear drums are adjust=
ed properly.  If the rears aren't adjusted properly you quite often will hav=
e to pump the pedal to get it firm.<br> <br> Rick<br> <br> &gt; On Jan 15, 2=
022, at 11:22 PM, Michael MacLean via Spridgets &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spridg=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><=
span></span></a>&gt; wrote:<br> &gt; <br> &gt; =EF=BB=BF<br> &gt; The front d=
rum brakes and master cylinder on my Bugeye were recently swapped out for di=
sc brakes.  The old master was 3/4" bore with a 7/8" sleeve for the Datsun c=
lutch.  The new master is 7/8" in both bores to actuate the calipers correct=
ly.  Installation went without a hitch and the car was bled multiple times, b=
ut for some reason the brake pedal goes down aways before it works.  You can=
 actually pump the pedal up a bit. We can't understand it.  There are no lea=
ks and it was bled properly, butt it acts like there is still air in the sys=
tem.  Any ideas?<br> &gt; Mike MacLean<br> &gt; ------------------------<br>=
 &gt; <br> &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank=
"><span>[email-masked]</span><span></span></a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; D=
onate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" target=3D"_blank">http://=
www.team.net/donate.html</a><br> &gt; Suggested annual donation: $12.75<br> &=
gt; <br> &gt; Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/spridgets</a>  <a href=3D"htt=
p://autox.team.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive<=
/a><br> &gt; <br> &gt; Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/=
mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">http://aut=
ox.team.net/mailman/options/spridgets/[email-masked]</a><br> <br> </bl=
ockquote></div> ------------------------<br> <br> <a href=3D"mailto:spridget=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank"><span>[email-masked]</span><sp=
an></span></a><br> <br> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html" t=
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